Free Software at the Local Library?

DoraLives asks: "I live in a small town in East Central Florida, nearly in the shadow of the launch pads at Cape Canaveral. People generally expect that a place like this would be quite technologically advanced. Unfortunately, this isn't always true, and a case in point is the local library. They have a nice collection of CD's, and you might think you'd see Free Software CD's on the rack right next to Frank Zappa, Duke Ellington, and Bach. Think again, no such thing obtains here, or in any of the other libraries hereabouts." Aside from Linux and BSD install discs, what other pieces of software might make good items for the software section in your local public library? "I went and talked to the director of the local library about having them provide a Knoppix disk or something similar to those unfortunates, who cannot afford a high speed internet connection to download and burn their own copies. Mr. Director seemed quite unaware as to the entire concept of Free Software and asked me to provide him with a 'list of this free software,' for his review. So, as part of my research into what's available out there, I thought I'd run this one past the users of Slashdot and see what they might recommend by way of operating systems, utilities, applications, and all the rest of the free stuff that's available for download and burning, that would make good items for the shelves of a lending library.

Methinks the inhabitants of my little burg would be tickled to find out that the entire computing world is NOT owned by a corporation in Washington state. I further think that this could be a fine way to get the word, and the actual software, out to the masses. Am I right? Can Slashdot help me with Mr. Director's need for information so he can make an informed decision."

Comments

doopdy doop

[insensitive claude]

Choice of titles aside, this subject has been covered before.

Everything's free at my library.

[Neil Blender]

I just put it my backpack and then make like a tree and leave.

Why CDs?

[toxic666]

Why not just set up a PC with a burner, post instructions and allow people to burn to their own CDs?

It would save the hassle of checking out a CD (like the music ones) and the software provided would, by definition, be legal to copy.

Re:Why CDs?

[JonBuck]

Bit of a problem, here. FYI, I'm a librarian myself.

CDs cost money. The PC costs money. Libraries don't have that kind of budget. Even if only a hundred people per year make that request, the costs would include:

1) Media. Including bad burns that must be discarded.
2) Computer time. Libraries often do not have state-of-the-art equipment. The computer doing the burning might not be able to do anything else while it's running.
3) Staff time. Something that is often missed. While this could be delegated to a library assistant.

Imagine what would happen if that number increased tenfold. We're talking thousands of dollars. It would be better for them to burn one or two sets of CDs and have them available for circulation, and simply replace them when they wear out. If a patron wants to purchase a CD copy for themselves then they would have to pay for it. Or they could do it at home.

I can see this as more viable in academic library settings. OpenOffice and other Free Software alternatives will help students get the type of software they need to write papers, create presentations, etc.. For public libraries... well, that would be up to the individual library.

Re:Why CDs?

[really?]

Good points, but ...
1. You could sell the media. In fact you could add a couple pennies to the price and offset some of other costs.
2. You don't need a new/fast/etc computer for this. I think a you could easily find a geek who will be happy to donate and set up his/her "second machine."
3. Once this is set up properly, it should require little, or no, maintenance. If you really do need to get something done/changed/etc ... get in touch geek from "2" or find some other volunteer. If I walked into my local public library and saw such a setup, I would definitely enquire about helping, and I think others would do too.

Of course, not being a librarian, I have no idea as to what kid of laws/rules/etc regulate this kind of thing.

Gnu Win CD

[paulproteus]

In all fairness, you should probably focus on Free Software for Windows, at least to get the project off the ground.

You should check out the GNUWin CD, a CD of lots of Free software for Win32, at least for inspiration on what to give users.

If you can make pop-in-the-drive-double-click-and-run CDs of things like OpenOffice or Mozilla Firefox (i.e., without installing), those would be great for demos. Perhaps an OpenOffice.org 2-CD set: One demo disc, one install CD. That way people could try it and realize how much they want it. :-)

Also, consider pointing them to a good online support forum. It makes a lot of sense to have your own user-support service for your little project, or for others like it. That way, you can say, "Let me just drive over." A PhpBB setup would do fine for that.

Re:Gnu Win CD

[ttldkns]

Dont forget to have a paper CD sleeve explaining in very simple terms what to do.

Also a label of "free software" could give the image to the regular library goer of inferior quality as sowtware is (for them) associated with cost. A more subtle title such as "public software" is also more accurate and is something that follows logically in a public library.

Re:Gnu Win CD

[LostCluster]

There's also The Open CD which is a similar project with the same purpose... point-and-click installs of several useful apps.

Re:Gnu Win CD

[AlexDV]

I work in a small library as a clerk/computer tech, and I'm currently trying to some copies of The OpenCD into our collection. I still have to run it by our director, but hopefully we'll have a good collection of Open Source software available by the end of summer. A lot of our patrons are students who come in to type up reports. If I had to guess, most of them probably have computers at home, but might not have any good word processing software. OpenOffice would probably work just as well for them as MS Office, and we would be saving them a lot of money. If their are any other librarians out there who have been successful lending Open Source software, I'd love to hear about it. Drop me an e-mail at: advancina@manhattan.lib.il.us Thanks :)

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Most library users are windows users...

[centralizati0n]

Windows open source software can be great, so check out the The Open CD. It includes such wonderful things as (in type-of-application order):
OpenOffice.org, AbiWord, GIMP
Mozilla, FileZilla, TightVNC, WinHTTrack, PuTTY
Audacity, CDex, Crack Attack!, Sokoban YASC, Celestia, Really Slick Screensavers

7-Zip, SciTE, WinPT, NetTime
All of that would be great. Maybe even print up a little intro booklet to help the user in deciding what to install.

Licensing

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt many public libraries can afford the $699 license fee required for Linux.

Re:Licensing

[Simonetta]

Although this comment is scored funny, it's not really.

Most libraries would be very hesitant to put a 'contested copyright' item on the shelf for copying (after checkout - at home) knowing that they MIGHT get legally harassed for doing it.

This is most true for operating system software CDs.

It is not true for normal music/audio/spoken word CDs as public libraries take the position that ordinary CDs that are checked out will only be listened to and not copied.

I get most of my music from the two local libraries (one main library for the city and the library system in the wealthy suburbs). I used to just grab about ten CDs at a time off the shelf and rip them to MP3s, listen to them selectively, and burn the best music to 15 cent CD-R blanks. After about a thousand albums, I got a little bored with stuff like "1000 Bulgarian Accordians Play the Beatles", but I still found lots of interesting stuff that I would have never heard from any other avenue of music exposure.

I copied a lot of music that I'm not interested in now but may be in the future because I believe that it's only a matter of time before the RIAA targets libraries for having CDs available for checkout. You could come into the library one day and find all the music CDs, just, gone. All it takes is one paid-off judge. And we sure have plenty of those around here. So I copied everything that I could with the idea that I might possibly enjoy a different type of music (like jazz or classical) in ten years time when all the music may possibly have been removed from the library shelves.

[How's that for a verb tense? Subjunctive Future Perfect? Too much college, not enough beer]

Re:Licensing

[No Such Agency]

I got a little bored with stuff like "1000 Bulgarian Accordians Play the Beatles",

I dunno, I think I'd *have* to listen to that one, just on principle. I mean, 1000 accordions!

RE: FS in the Lib

[fshalor]

1. Mozilla.
2. Manuals.
3. Slashdot archives.
4. Linux/Unix howtos
5. Freshmeat archived snapshots.
6. Gnu utils.
7. All the distros...

I'm going to actually be checking into this soon at our local lib. My whole compter experience started off at a freenet helpdesk in the library back in like 95...Man.. I can give bacl.

So burn some discs and donate them

[ElectricPoppy]

what's the big deal?

Which reminds me of my youth:

[Neil Blender]

In high school, I'd peel the magnetic stickers that set the alarms off out of books and crumple them up. I'd then walk by some unsuspecting stranger and surreptitiously drop the strip into their bag or umbrella. When they tried to leave all hell would break loose. Sometimes I'd put it inside one of my friend's textbook or something. I use to think they'd catch me because I'd be laughing so hard. Hilarity.

DUPE!

[LostCluster]

I can't believe this... we've run out of original topics.

Ask Slashdot has gone into reruns...

There isn't even an article here and we still got a dupe.

Knoppix and OpenOffice

[fhic]

It probably doesn't answer the question, since my local library doesn't lend software. But every month or so I burn a handful of CD-Rs with Knoppix, Lindows^W Linspire, and OpenOffice and drop them in the public area of the lobby. I label them with a unique URL so I can see if anybody's paying attention. I get hits off maybe half of them, and occasionally an email to the tune of "hey, you got any more of this stuff?" Hopefully I'm collecting some good karma somewhere. :-)

Re:Knoppix and OpenOffice

[fhic]

Funding is not a problem. While I'm no Bill Gates, I can afford to give away five or six spindle's worth of CD-Rs a year. :-)

My local branch library is pretty small, but branch libraries are the heart and soul of libraries everywhere. If they can give away everything that I give them, I'm entirely prepared to give them way more. I could constantly burn CD-Rs from now until my dying day and not give back a tenth of what local public libraries have given me over the years.

In fact, I offer up this challenge to my fellow Slashdotters: every time you visit your local branch library, do what I do: drop off a few (or a whole bunch of) CD-Rs with free or open source software and let me know by email at library (at) hicinbothem.com. If there's any response, I'll do my best to get a FPP with details of our successes.

I am far from an anti-Microsoft zealot, but this is the way we will win that war: by showing computer users who can think, and yes, one by one, that there are better alternatives to IE and Outlook, and yes, there are even better OSes than Windows.

Which library?

[Gangis]

Which library? Just out of curiosity. I live in Indialantic, also under the shadow of the cape. There are three libraries near me, Eau Gallie Library on Pineapple Road, the Melbourne Beach City Library where Nick's Steakhouse used to be on A1A, and some library I haven't gone to in Satellite Beach.

I may be interested in helping out on your endeavor, since I am local and I support spreading awareness of free software. :)

Fast internet connection and CD burners?

[David Hume]

I have to ask whether your library has a fast internet connection and whether the computers have CD burners (that library clients can use)?

Not to disparage your idea by implication, it is excellent. I just thought that the above could help people access software the library does not have on CD. In addition, some Free Software is updated so quickly that a library might have trouble keeping up with regard to receiving and cataloging physical CDs.

Finally, many libraries keep a home page on their computers which lists various reference sites. Perhaps Free Software sites could be added to this list.

Library demographics

[karlowfwb]

I work in a public library and my experience with the typical demographic of the library would lead me to believe that this would not be a big hit. Many of the patrons visit the library simply to use the internet, most of these people do not have a computer at home. Another large percentage are older folks, who simply want to read their mysteries. We do carry a moderately sized selection of (mostly educational) software, however that circulates very poorly.

Perhaps this could be successful in a smaller library with a more technically aware demographic, however in your average public library, I don't think it would see much success.

Provide Commercial Alternatives

[nurb432]

My local library for one loans commercial software, so it woudlnt be too far fetched to try it here too.

As far as what, id stick with the following:

1 - run from CD, such as Mepis, or knoppix, or freebsie.. ( give people a choice )
2 - General application replacements for windows.
3 - make your own #2's... with pretty liners for the sleves.. attract attention...
4 - games.. lots of games. its what drives a lot of people these days. FOr both windows and unix..

Just dont over do it.. give people 'cute' stuff to look at.

Vancouver Public Library

[ffa]

this is a great idea...

back in the late 80s, the Vancouver Public Library used to have a station where you could access a CD ROM full of all the Public Domain utilities (rememeber those days? :) for those who did not have a modem and access to a BBS.

You can setup a special PC which has a tool that only burns selected software. We used to take our own 5.25 floppies and copy PD software, so there is no reason people cannot acquire a $0.50 CD and take home goodies.

less maintenenance/cost this way to the library...

-farshad

Repeat Topic But I'll Chime In Again

[Eberlin]

I work at a city library with machines sponsored by the B&M Gates Learning Foundation. To pimp Free Software may incur the wrath of Redmond for an already underfunded library. We're already a frickin' MS Office infomercial as it is.

I do, however, try to make sure people know and understand the costs of MS Software as well as the benefits of Open Source/Free Software. I recommend OpenOffice for those who don't want to shell out a fortune for word processing. I tell people about Mozilla Firefox and describe the benefits it has.

I also have handouts with links to AVG Anti-Virus, Ad-Aware, and Zone Alarm. Not Open Source but "free as in beer."

To offer CD's could become a support nightmare unless you pull a "Try at your own risk" thing. Last thing a library needs are irate patrons because they borked their machines trying to use/install software YOU supplied.

If you are to do so anyway, go with OSS for Windows, first. OpenOffice, Firefox, GIMP. Then maybe the free-as-in-beer stuff I mentioned earlier for antivirus, anti-spyware, and firewalling. Then there's other stuff like Knoppix and bootable game CD's (America's Army?).

In the end, there are quite a few considerations to think about when offering software from a library. You'll have political issues, can lose some private funding/sponsorships, and even have irate patrons who mistake your goodwill for tech-support-for-life.

One of the irritating things I got to hear at the library was that when a student asked about BSODs and rebooting, the rest of the class said that it's a normal thing, and to get used to it. I had to tell them otherwise, and even then, they weren't fully convinced that instability isn't natural.

Hopefully with stuff like free software cd's, and the knoppixes of the world, people will find that there are alternatives to MS. Maybe they'll even see its simplicity, stability, and practicality.

Work on Koha www.koha.org if you want to help

[abesottedphoenix]

If you want to really help your local public library dig open source, point Koha out to them. With what we pay for an automated library system (it's enough to make you ralph, trust me) Koha is an attractive alternative.

Many libraries still don't have high speed connections since many libraries are rural public libraries like mine. Scarily, we're still a 56k connection type of place. So the CD thing is quite cool. The second reason we would want this is because of those circulation statistics we'd get from checking out the CDs.

Your third roadblock - most directors gradumatated from liberry school about a zillion years ago. Computers are new to them. They shouldn't be, but trust me, most directors are 50-70 year old white guys that haven't gotten sunlight in a billion years.

Start with Windows apps

[spiritraveller]

Rather than focusing on Linux itself, I think the best approach to get people using free software is to give them software that works with the operating system they already have.

Most people will switch to free software gradually, not suddenly with a complete operating system replacement.

They may eventually switch to Linux, but that will be much easier for them if they are already using software that can be used under both Linux and Windows.

Therefore, I think the best thing for most people would be a cd filled with easy-to-install Windows versions of programs such as the following:

* OpenOffice 1.1.1
* Mozilla Firefox (web browser)
* Mozilla Thunderbird (email and usenet discussions)
* Mozilla Sunbird (calendar)
* Nvu (based on the old Mozilla Composer web-design app)
* Mozilla Suite 1.6 (for those who prefer it all in one program)
* Pan (usenet binaries)
* gaim (chat client)
* The Gimp (to replace Photoshop

There are Windows binary downloads available for each of these programs...

You might also make a version of this disk for Mac OSX users. But by this, I mean apps that run natively, not through an X server. Fink is great, and you might want to have a disk that lets you install it and some of its packages... but running an X server is a little complex for the average user.

Apps that run natively under OSX that I know of:

* Mozilla Suite 1.6
* Mozilla Camino (a more lightweight browser)
* NeoOffice/J (a version of OpenOffice)

I am sure there are other native OSX FOSS apps... but those are the ones I know of.

Of course there's no reason you can't provide 20 different Linux distributions and the entire contents of Sourceforge... but I would focus on Windows and Mac apps, and Live-CDs so people can get their feet wet with FOSS apps without committing an entire system all at once.

Project Gutenberg CD

[j1m 5n0w]

A cd of Project Gutenberg books would be a reasonable thing for a library to carry. Staring at a screen isn't the best way to read a book, but I've read quite a few that way.

Some of my favorites (Some of which I read in dead tree format, I'm not masochistic enough to read Les Miserables via CRT):

• George MacDonald
  • The Princess and the Goblin
  • Lilith
  • Phantastes
• Victor Hugo
  • The Hunchback of Notre Dame
  • Les Miserables
• Samuel Taylor Coleridge The Rime of the Ancient Mariner
• The Brothers Grimm Grimm's Fairy Tales
• Kenneth Grahame The Wind in the Willows
• Lewis Carroll Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
• The King James Bible (in html)

-jim

Which library?

[DoraLives]

Cocoa Beach

Free software

[Pompatus]

I worked in a small town library in high school (about 10 years ago). We had software in the back that wasn't in circulation because of the fear of lawsuits about copying. I said that was rediculous, because people could photocopy books, plus we had tons of movies available for checkout. It wasn't my decision though, so the software sat there collecting dust.

I personally think the local library should carry ALL software. It's copyrighted the same as books. How about tax software? People only need it once a year. Checking it out for a week and returning it makes sense. Think about how many programs you only need maybe once or twice a year. Partition Magic comes to mind. Almost all games get boring after a couple of weeks.

Of course software companies would have a fit about this because they percieve lost profits. I think most people that would check out software from a library would go without before buying it.

The real solution to the problem is open source software. I personall think linux is almost ready for the desktop for the average user. Hell, the evolution email client alone makes me want to switch (I'm dual booting now, mainly because my sound drivers play volume at 1/3 of the windows drivers and my USB flash keychain thingy doesn't work properly under linux. I'm running mandrake 10 with asus a7v8x-x mobo. any ideas?? :).

But I'm getting offtopic. Libraries should have ALL software available for checkout, just as they have all other forms of media. Thank god libraries have existed for as long as they have in this country, because if they were suggested today, they would get vetoed by book, magazine, movie, music, and software publishers because of a percieved loss in profit. Think of all of the brilliant people throughout history that were not rich enough to have their own vast collection of books.

None

[Breakerofthings]

Distributing OSS software (maybe software in general) via CD is lame. In my experience, by the time you get a CD, half of its contents are out of date.

My first Linux distro was a store-bought, shrink-wrapped copy of RedHat. I was hip deep into it before I realized it was a couple of versions old ... Don't most libraries nowadays have internet access? Maybe broadband? (if not, they should ... but that is a different rant)

So how tough would it be for a library to set up a mirror of the ISOs for linux/bsd/etc. distros, and a directory of tarballs for packages?

Then all you need is a few cd burners, and you are all set ... strapped for cash? Make 'em provide their own blanks ... (cd burners are cheap nowadays)

Strapped for the storage space? How about just an index, a starting point for the uninitiated, that will point them to the projects' sites where they can download the ISOs, RPMs, DEBs, etc. that they want. (Cache 'em with squid, maybe).

Now, the library doesn't have to worry about the CDs being returned, or being damaged (or getting 'stale').

My point is, (and I am truly not trying to pick on anyone here) that the mindset of someone asking this question is a bit askew; they are overlooking the Internet! Now I am a dead tree lover; obsessed, really. But I realize that dead trees are no longer the best way to distribute information in all cases ... particularly information that is prone to becoming dated quickly.
All you are really interested in is getting folks information here, right? just the bits ... my claim is that the best way to do that is give it to em from the source; fresh, hot, up-to-date, and maybe they will learn something from that experience (like where to go to *get* FOSS!

The library should focus on helping people find that information ... hence my suggestion for a link page ... a jumping off point, or directory of sorts. Perhaps local cached copies of n00b-appropriate distros, maybe even a few pre-burnt CDs to cut down on the wait time (Knoppix would be an excellent choice for this)

One last point to beat the proverbial dead horse ...
If the library has broadband internet access, where a user can download debian, for example, and a little help finding it for the newcomers ... and the ability to make a cd of what they want ...what value does shelving copies add to the transaction?

Re:Games!

[WebMasterP]

Ok, isn't there some rule that says if you're going to make fun of someone's typo and call it an English mistake, you have to TYPE PROPER ENGLISH YOURSELF.

You know, you might be able to check out a book on irony at your local library.

Windows Update

[Student_Tech]

Microsoft offers Windows Update CDs every few months for free from them. Perhaps get a few, http://www.microsoft.com/security/protect/cd/order .asp

Of course if everyone using the library has broadband it might be kinda mute, but it would be useful for everyone else.

potential problem

[wk633]

I used to work as a sysadmin at a library. A co-worker wanted to donate several copies of FreeBSD he had. The problem the library had was that they had a boilerplate policy for all software CDs that said you promised to uninstall it when you returned the CD, not to copy it, etc etc. Free software didn't fit into the boilerplate library policy, so they weren't quite sure what to do. They wanted to get it out, but were worried about deailng with multiple circulation policies.

Burn from ISOs only

[Fibonacci Ceres]

>>"Why not just set up a PC with a burner,
>>post instructions and allow people to burn
>>to their own CDs?"

>That would let people come in and make
>copies of the non-free stuff.

Set up a box restricted to burning from ISO
files only. Provide a simple click'n'burn
interface and a laminated card next to the
PC that would explain the different distros,
number of disks needed, hardware needed and pointers to paper references both in and
outside the library.
The library could provide CDRs at a small
profit to pay for upkeep on the system and
to buy more paper references. This would be
a great thing for a local Linux User Group to sponsor. It would create much greater public awareness of the local group, GNU/Linux and
the Open Source movement.
And no drone from Redmond (or anywhere else)
could complain about software piracy.

There's a .sig around here somewhere

Re:Burn from ISOs only

[westlake]

There are problems here:

1 Mac and Windows users will want download privileges and access to a burner as well. That I can guarantee, particularly if the library has the only free public access broadband connection in town.

2 A public library may not be willing or able to accept restricted donations, privately maintained kiosks, etc, especially if has has to pay for the bandwidth, documentation, maintenance, insurance, etc., needed out of it's general funds. Imagine the response of your local LUG if Microsoft took up the same plan, but with $60 billion in cash to back it up.

3 This isn't a trivial commitment for your local Linux Users Group or one that it can easily back out of gracefully.

Windows patches?

[omicronish]

Does anyone know if it would be legal to make a CD full of Windows patches and service packs? Such a CD would be incredibly useful for me, and perhaps other people. Someone could write a nice pamphlet on how to protect your computer, and provide a simple installation program for installing necessary patches from the CD.

It'd be like one of those health pamphlets, such as "how to protect yourself against skin cancer", but geared towards protecting Windows computers.

Replacements for commonly-exploited parts of Windows could also be included, such as Firefox, and as a bonus, MiKTex and a tutorial can be included to free college students from the grasps of Microsoft Equation Editor ;)

recommend no burned cds

[SaberTaylor]

This is a great idea. I used to think that free sw advocates should get free cdroms placed at checkout counters but apparently that is highly valuable retail space.

I would recommend that for people introducing libraries to free software, that cds should be purchased from mass-produced (with the distinctive stamped look) cd vendors for security trustworthiness. Not just on the person who puts the cds in the library but so borrowers don't replace any cds with their own versions.

And for burnt cds I'd recommend that the URL for the checksum be included in the cdrom case.

As far as selection goes, I don't think you can go wrong.

have fun.