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Getting Treatment for Carpal Tunnel?
DeathGripOnMouse asks: "Let me set to stage. I am a 30 something network analyst. I have been electronics / computer industry for the better part of twenty years, most of that time spent behind a keyboard. Like my peers, I am concerned about Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and other injuries that seem to afflict IT professionals. Recently, I began to notice some tenderness in my mouse hand. Deciding that it was time to see a doctor, I asked around the office for a good doctor, as my primary doctor no longer accepts my insurance. At the recommendation of several of my co-workers I called the office of a doctor the next town over. I explained my problem and was told that because this "could" be a work related injury, I was not able to see the doctor until I completed the following. First, I needed permission from my supervisor to seek treatment for my problem, in writing no less! Second, I was told that my medical insurance may not cover the doctor's expenses and I needed permission from my employers HR department to start a workman's compensation claim. All this without even seeing me! I do not want to file a claim due to the stigma that it carries, and I feel that it may hinder my chances at landing another job. I haven't approached my HR department, but what if they refuse to allow me to file a claim? This whole situation just angers me to no end. Anyway, has anyone sought treatment for CTS or some other repeated stress injury? If so, what were your experiences?"
IANAD, but I suggest that you take up some hobbies that involve using your hands. Ride a bike, play some tennis, throw a frisbee, surf for pron. Do anything you can to stimulate your muscles in a way that doesn't involve clicking a mouse. While you're at it, get a laptop or some type of trackball or touchpad, so you can work half the time with a non-mouse pointer. I feel variety is the key to avoiding these types of maladies and I wish you luck. Take care of this problem using common-sense techniques like mentioned above, as going to the doctor for carpal-tunnel will likely not help at all. Dealing with HR and irrationalhealth care requirements will only lead you to a need for psyciatric treatment, it seems, and how will that look on your job application.
I've had very painful wrist problems before and my chiropractor said it was because of my neck being stiff. He said it was pinching the nerves which was causing my wrists to hurt. You can have symptoms of carpal tunnel and not even have the disorder. A chiropractor which who I'm assuming you saw is the best person to ask. Needless to say, I sleep on a contour pillow now and my wrists are better. I remember reading in my chiropractor's office that obesity, thyroid problems and diabetes can all contribute to carpal tunnel as well. So it might not be work related.
I would get a second openion before trying something like that.
Simon's Rock College
It's complete bullshit that you have to do all this before seeing him. You don't know what's wrong and neither does he. You don't even know if anything is wrong. Besides which, fuck work! Your health is more important, you go see what's up, get it treated and only AFTER all this you figure out if it's a work injury or not etc etc.
Hope that helps. IANA*.
Liberty.
The system is not designed to give you easy access to health care. On the contrary, it is designed to make it as difficult as possible.
-- Bob
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
I too am in the I/T field, and have noticed some tenderness in my mouse hand off and on for the past several years. I don't really want the surgery. I have found that wearing a wrist brace off and on as needed (mostly off), and using a ergo-mouse pad and ergo keyboard have helped significantly, if not all but made it go away. Just my experience anyways.
First off, your employer has workers comp insurance. They pay a regular premium for exactly this reason -- make their premium worth it.
Second, the hoops are there to stop fraud. Yes, it's frustrating. But it's there because enough jackasses said that they were really sick and milked the system for a ton of money when in reality they weren't. So now the employer wants the option to send you to one of their doctors that they trust rather than your default doctor. Once their doc blesses it, you'll be back to normal with respect to process.
Third, and this is the most important: DON'T GET SCREWED WITH CARPAL. Without your wrists, you have no job. Period. You don't do your employer any good and you certainly don't do yourself any good. For a few hundred in doctors visits and a few hundred in getting the right equipment (keyboards, etc.), your employer keeps you working. It's substantially cheaper than losing you to disability. When you're on disability, he has to keep your job open, pay your benefits, AND not get any of your work.
Workers comp comes with a stigma when it's abused. Don't abuse it and you'll be fine.
I can't say I was any type of beliver in this until I felt and saw the work done myself. While there is a new-agie mystique to some of it, massage has a grounded scientific basis for why it works to fix things like this. Its worth a shot, and I think in the right hands you'll be pain free very soon.
P
-- My dog can beat up your dog.
Time to start documenting your sexual harassment ordeal at that company!
I went in to the doctor several years ago after my dad got some treatment for hurting wrists. It didn't require anything like this. Just a normal appointment. And all the doctor did was give me a shot of something in my wrists (which was scary... big long needle... yikes). Anyway, it took like 5 minutes. It worked amazingly well, too. No idea what it was though, sorry. That was quite a few years ago now and I was still in high school at the time. My wrists have been quite happy since then. Occasional dull pain after long days on the keyboard, but after a rest it goes away. Nothing at all like what I had in the past before the treatment.
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
First, as suggested elsewhere, fraud is a major problem in the health insurance field, and as a result, nearly every company has a rather prolonged procedure you must follow in order to seek help. If your company is sufficiently large enough (or enlightened enough), your best bet is to actually contact the ergonomics division. These are the people who are concerned with you having wrist pads, comfortable chairs, periodic breaks and so forth, simply because the alternative is just too expensive. If there is no such group at your organization, surf the web on ergonomics (yes, the irony is not lost on me). Getting one up and going could turn into a second job when you get tired of Network Administration.
The other train of thought - there are many remedies, not necessarily cures, but pain-alleviating techinques for CTS. I personally recommend wearing very lightweight but warm gloves when sleeping - it seems to help improve blood flow and reduce muscle tension. It may not work for you, but there are lots of other things to try. You basically want to a) increase your range of motion and b) prevent temperature-caused stiffness.
Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) is usually characterized by numbness/pain of the thumb, index, middle and the thumb-half of your ring finger. People often report waking up inthe night to "shake out" their sleepy hand, they also may report pain radiating from their hand to their elbow/shoulder. Risk factors include; being a diabetic, pregnant and thyroid problems. Computer keyboarding has NOT, I repeat, NOT been shown or linked to cause CTS. I know that this goes against what most of you have heard, but there are million of people using keyboards, and there are certainly not anywhere near that many people with CTS.
You need to see a hand surgeon - preferably an orthopaedic trained one. Just a small warning - workers compensation patients have an interesting stigma - they typically do worse than non-workers comp patients in all aspects of medicine, for many diferent reasons, i.e. secondary gain, etc.
So go see a hand surgeon in person who knows the facts and don't listen too much to your co-workers (they didn't go to bus driving school - so they don't get to drive the bus). If your hand surgeon does indicate surgery for you, he really should send you for an electromyelogram (EMG) to first to rule out any other causes for your hand problems. EMG's check the nerves in your hand and make sure that the problem is in your wrist, and not in your elbow/shoulder or neck. EMGs hurt like hell (you get shocked with needles in various places), but it's definetely worth it.
..........FULL STOP.
As the byline says, if this is what they call healthcare, you'd be better off seeking treatment elsewhere. Take a holiday, a flight and get your body fixed. Then you can consider suing your employer or HMO.
One chiropractor near where I live likes to give patients with kidney stones lots of olive oil. He claims the resulting large green feces are the stones.
I recomend visiting your primary care physician first, then getting a referal to a hand specialist.
It does sound from your other post as though you may have a neck problem. It could also be that your hand problem causes the headaches. Or your job just makes you sick.
Simon's Rock College
I used to have a pain in my right wrist, and it always startes acting up when I was using a mouse. That was 7 years ago. Since then I've been using a trackball, and no more pain or stiffness. I've never had any problem with the keyboard. And most of the people I know who complain about wrist pain usually use a mouse with the wrist in question.
Sorry to hear that you've had such trouble. I worked for a small company and had RSI related problems for a while. Basically I just went to my primary care physician, paid the $10 copay, and was treated. Essentially, he gave me some advice to relieve it, and it worked. I didn't need to file a claim or anything, nor was I out more than the occasional $10 co-pay. Per chance, is this an option for you? Why can't ya just see your doc?
I'll share with you what he told me. Problem number was was that I was holding my elbos off the desk. My shoulders bore the brunt of the work there, and it was causing my neck some serious troubles. My hands also hurt, but I don't remember that we addressed that specifically. In the efforts to keep my muscles from having to hold my arms up, the hand discomfort went away as well.
Well poo I don't know that it's that useful to you. I think my problem has largely gone away, but who knows if it'll come back from the contsant click click of my mouse. I'm just hoping my suggestion to see your doc without making it a "my company hurt me!" claim is useful to you.
"Derp de derp."
This can actually work in some cases, but only if the carpal tunnel synd hasn't been going on for too long. See my long post on CTS
..........FULL STOP.
First things first, find a doctor that accepts your insurance and make an appointment. Worst comes to worst, you can always worry about the HR aspects of it later.
In late 2002. This is how I did it:
- Went to see my General Practioner
- He referred me to the neurology department at a local hospital
- They ran an EMG test
- I saw neurologist for results
Easy. Never a problem with forms or my employer.
Oooooh....sorry....I live in Canada. Damn our Socialist tendancies and universal healthcare!!
-psy
I've had the same problem, having been a high speed typist since about age 10, and the problem has completely subsided for the last few years since I started mousing with my left hand most of the time.
Go back to your own doctor (if you trust him), pay cash and get an honest opinion. Also, start using your left hand for the mouse.
When I eventually saw a wrist consultant at my hospital I was told "it's nothing, it will sort itself out".
This despite occasional pins and needles in my face and complete loss of strength in my hand (I would sometimes have to drop things like books and cups).
He was right in that the excruciating pain went away but I still suffer from wrist pain over 10 years later.
They gave me some cortisone injections but the response of UK medical staff has been rather underwhelming.
It *was* useful when I was unemployed and they were trying to force me into work. I told them I was perfectly willing to work but I was having trouble finding a job that didn't require me to
They gave up trying.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
First, if you have a little pain or tingling after a long session of work, get some *real* excercise and if the discomfort goes away, keep doing it. Squeeze balls help, as do lifting weights, but be careful. You can actually sprain your wrist or hand if you got a case of tendonitis, so don't give in to the urge to think yourself macho. What you want to do is understand that Repetitive Stress injuries come from doing the same thing constantly: sitting in a rigid position twiddling your fingers is tiring on your body. Notice your hands floating over the keyboard and over to the mouse. Shoulders tight? Notice the mechanics. The weight of your arm is hanging from your shoulder while you twiddle your fingers. Not great for the body.
Second, get over yourself. If you are injured at work, you have a right and the company has a legal responsibility to report it. However, they also have a responsibility to make sure there is not fraud and to keep to chain of command. Translation: all the letter-writing and case-filing is normal for a worker's comp claim. When it happened to me 12 years ago and I realized what it was (wasn't as well known as now), I filled out papers, saw state-referred doctors, and eventually got therapy for it. It was a lot of work for the company, but they were more concerned with my well-being (it was a small company and we all got along). I live with the RSI now, but I can usually keep it under control in even the most stressful conditions. Usually...
I'm not sure if there would be a financial impact on the company, but if there is one, that would explain why they prefer you didn't report it (your loss, their gain, and all they had to do was make a face at you).
But I have to ask: what stigma? Are you in some culture where if you have you're arm cut off, you're considered a sissy if you ask for a band-aid? Pleeease! Take care of yourself, 'cause if you haven't figured it out yet, the company is not your friend. They may have nothing against you, but if you think lying down and waiting for someone else to do what's right is going to get you brownie points: a) it won't, b) you'll still have a medical problem.
So, third, HR is supposed to be there for you; that is, to manage you, one of the company's human resources. HR should be very interested in your case. Go talk to your rep. If there's more than one, and you don't get satisfaction, go to another one. Ask him/her to lunch if you can't go through channels. Get advice. Seek help.
If HR refuses to let you file a worker's comp claim, you can sue them and live off the award. There is no way in hell they could get away with it. Besides which, it sounds like they are already doing it. Sorry if I'm grumpy today, but please get a spine.
If they are so incompetent as to try to convince you that there is some stigma attached to this, can you talk to some other manager? If you're concerned with how it might appear politically, make sure it's understood you are seeking advice, not ratting on someone or complaining. But make sure it's real and not in your head.
Oh, and one more thing on HR: They are not allowed to tell any future company you go to anything more than your employment dates and your salary. This "stigma" nonsense of yours can't possibly affect any future job.
Finally, you have some learning to do. Not all solutions work for all people; but you will have permanent nerve damage if you don't learn to take care of this yourself in the long run. Probably all you need is to soak your hands in cold water at the end of the day, try not sleep on them (consider cheap wrist braces from the drug store if you wake up with achey wrists), get lots of movement like aerobics or weight lifting or juggling (jogging won't help your hands), and take a couple of ibuprofen in the morning. But if you don't know this already, a doctor should be consulted, and ultimately filing the worker's comp claim gets you in the system and a lot of people paying attention to you. Take advantage of it and stop worrying about whether you'll get in trouble or be sent to your room or whatever else you're fretting about.
</rant_of_a_corporate_burnout_with_rsi>
After being a complete computerholic for a while (not to mention the evenings of keyboard games like tetris, pacman, racing games, etc.), I began to have pain in my forehand and wrist, especially the righ hand.
I thought about going to doctor but after doing thorough research on web, I decided to try these first:
(1) Buy Gel Pads for keyboard and mouse for every computer I use.
(2) Reduce the frequency of keyboard/mouse use (I quit playing computer games, can you believe that). Give short breaks to forearm when working on computer.
(3) Start working out. Lifting weights (resistance training) is the best thing you can do. It helps tremendously by strengthning the forearm muscles which provide extra support.
Above 3 things worked great and I don't have the symptoms since then.
I would also recommend changing posture even though I am lousy in that department.
This guy is right that massage therapy can work wonders but you pay a price. It can really hurt like the devil. We have a guy here who went to an Masters-level powerlifter who also does massage therapy for injuries. The guy said he was almost in tears because of the pain involved in the massage (needless to say this powerlifter guy doesn't give gentle, soothing massages). However, it works very well; a few sessions took care of the problem. Hey, No Pain No Gain, right?
However, if it hurts while or immediately after working, it may be tendonitis rather than carpal. Carpal is more tingling and numbness than pain in the early stages.
The good news: If it's tendonitis, it can be cured with an anti-inflammatory drug like cortezone (sp?) and some changes in how you use your hands. Very minor, very effective -- and the over-the-counter wrist braces another poster mentioned work wonders.
"It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
I saw a doctor for the same reason some years ago.
First, they sent me to a neurologist, who electrocuted various parts of my arms and hands to check the stimulii. Since I felt the full extent of the pain of being shocked over and over everything checked out OK. He said it was probably a case of tendonitis, which is fairly common, probably more common than carpal tunnel.
Also, someone mentioned the thing that if you hunch forward too much that you could be pinching nerves in your neck that are causing the pain. I've run across that too.
One thing that helps is variety, like others have said.
Also, if you've been behind a computer for that long I'll bet you don't type properly, like keeping your fingers on the home row ("ASDF JKL;") and are not using the proper fingers to press the proper keys. Lately, I have been retraining myself to type from the home row and it's a bit frustrating and I type slower but it is more comfortable if I stick with it.
But I think computer mice cause more problems for people than keyboards.
I'm currently undergoing treatment for RSI of the wrists/fingers. I have similar experience (20 yrs at the keyboard) and like you I was concerned about the stigma so I am paying for treatment myself. I have found Oesteopath's to be far more knowledgeable about this than your local doctor. A good article I found is here http://www.rsiprogram.com/articles%5CLeadArticle.h tm
An oesteopath will most likely tell you that you are pinching nerves in your forearm and neck/shoulder area. I've had treatment for a month now and I am no longer experiencing pain when I type but complete recovery usually takes 6+ months ... which is a while but certainly better than losing the use of your hands/keyboard
I have taken some remedial actions such as reorganising my desktop, putting the keyboard on my lap (takes weight off shoulders) and using an ergonomic Vertical mouse (http://www.rsiprogram.com/equipment/verticalMouse .htm) as well as a gel wrist rest.
Good luck with your treatment.
...and make no mistake, I not only work in a health care setting, and have a master's in healtcare administration, and also have more than one disability myself...
"I do not want to file a claim due to the stigma that it carries"
FUCK stigma, FUCK any whining from HR, FUCK any future possible employers who might look disfavorably, FUCK any insurance company that tries to disallow a charge.
Take care of YOURSELF. Get yourself evaluated and treated. By allowing yourself to be bullied by adminimonsters you only increase your chances of ending up with something worse than you have now and letting them off the hook.
Shit rolls down hill. If at any point someone tries to cause you grief, start a few steps above them in the food chain and file a complaint that's tough enough to make their boss's boss cringe, such as an ADA (Americans With Disabilities) suit, and make sure it's publicised. Discrimination of this sort is illegal. That means (1) they'll try to get away with it only if you let them think they can and (2) it can cost them far more money and other problems if you stick it to them for trying to stick it to you. Make them aware you're aware of these things.
The best defense is the BEST offense. If you don't do it, nobody is going to do it for you. They'll be more than happy to rip off your health instead.
It's your HANDS, man. Even if they all got away with their BS, it's not worth your hands.
That being said, consider a thumbwheel mouse. I have a maximal case of carpal because the bones of my right wrist have been replaced with a bar of titanium, and the surgeries really screwed up the tendons etc. I replaced my mouse with a thumbwheel and have had no problems since. Well, none attributable to repetative stress.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Being the good manager that he was - he recommended that I see the company nurse that deals with such things daily as opposed to your doctor that sees them once in a while (think about it). The nurse looked me over and said - yes I was showing classic signs.
Step one - see an eronomist
Step two - see if that helps
Step three - well it did help - so I didn't go there
Of course I was working for a company that had an eronomic program - I was actually doing pretty good (my monitor was too low and raising it made a back ache I didn't even realize I had go away), but my hands went all wonky when I hot keyed, so was told to watch it and use the trackball more often.
I don't know what state you are in, but you should be able to go to a doctor and say my wrists hurt, get treatment and have your insurance cover it. If your insurance wants to go after your employer, that is their damned problem (IANAL)
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
oh man! you mean to tell me I've been avoiding carpool tunnels, and staying in the heavier traffic for no reason?
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
Unfortunately you are stuck in that stupid catch-22 of the doctor not wanting to treat you without permission because if he -does- diagnose as a WC claim your insurance will refuse to pay for the diagnostic visit. My doctors have been the same way for years and after I had back surgery for a congenital problem my insurance company -still- paid a 3rd party not once but twice to make sure they were not paying for a WC or auto-related claim. Yet in the end my doctors and health insurance both are of high quality. My point is simply that I believe this is pretty much the standard today.
... as in you feeling bad for filing the claim (if you mean you are worried about your company HR attaching the stigma to you, that also -should- not happen but I don't know your company).
... people get hurt on the job. There should be no more stigma on your part for filing a WC claim than a normal insurance claim. Carpal tunnel is by no means the most expensive type of WC claim and it should not significantly raise your company's rates ... which means they are already paying for the policy and you should be able to avail yourself of it if you have an honest claim (not saying you don't) ... otherwise their money into the insurance is wasted.
There should be no stigma on your part
Your company is required to have workman's comp for a reason
If they refuse, then the answer is you appeal with whatever state agency oversees WC insurance in your area. You could need to sue, but if you do then you're working at the wrong company and they will probably end up paying up.
In alot of cases you can get a lawyer to work for you for a part of the settlement, meaning you shouldn't have much upfront cost.
BTW, I have known a few people with carpal tunnel and generally speaking unless it is -severe- the treatment is maybe a very minor surgery followed by physical therapy. Not trying to discourage you, only pointing out that the recovery can take a long time and you have to continue taking care of it for as long as you use a keyboard.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
I went through the entire RSI evaluation, sterioid shots, surgery thing.
The thing that worked best for me is "contrast baths". You set up two tubs of water, one hot, one cold. (Not too hot or too cold).
You then stick your hands in the cold water for a minute, and then switch to the warm water for a minute. You switch back and forth 10 times (for 11 minutes) starting and ending in the cold tub. It helps to have a count-down timer.
Works like a charm.
I highly recommend a pen tablet such as the Wacom Graphire series; they are inexpensive and so much more comfortable than a mouse.
IANA*?
I am not a... wildcard?
You don't exist?
How did this metaphysical thing get on slashdot, anyway?
Go through the trouble. Also note that it'll be real easy to get a more egronomic chair/keyboard/etc. if the doc says you need it.
Don't screw around with your hands. If you catch things early, you'll need to do splints, advil, exercises, and maybe "physical therapy" or whatnot, make a few minor changes (like working the wrists and arms out) and go on with life. Let it fester and get worse, you'll need to find something that doesn't involve your hands and/or get surgery that can only help so much.
You may want to casually mention it to a slightly-less-uptight doc under the context of a routine physical. It may be that you need to do a few things here and there and end up perfectly fine.
Gentoo Sucks
I have an RSI of a kind that my doctor could
not diagnose as antthing specific. The mouse-related component is very simple to avoid- I just
mouse with my thumb (for left-clicks). This
is very effective, and one can get used to it.
I also use hand braces, which prevent the
typing-related component from kicking in (this
effect is very noticeable too).
Dan
Your company HAS to pay for it, if it is work related, if it is not work related your insurance company pays. Go to a doctor and tell them to find out which, and what is wrong, and a reasonable cause. (Likely work, but it could be tennis or something else you do on your own time...)
If it is work, turn it into work and ask how to handle it. Most small companies prefer to pay small bills themselves to keep their claims and payments down. Nothing wrong with that, so long as the bill is paid. (Larger companies are generally self-insured so it amounts to the same thing, but the paperwork is different)
Don't worry about stigma, it isn't your problem. If they try to make it your problem just point out a few of the laws in your favor.
I was developing tendonitis in my wrists, and I went to a chiropractor. He totally relieved the pressure in my wrists by adjusting them and helped me heal most the problems I was having. I can now self adjust. I also got a stationary mouse and split keyboard. I am now in control of the pain.
(Randomly throwing in the WebMD section on CTS)
I learned some exercises to open up the carpal tunnel. Now, IANAD and cannot verify their effectiveness, but they Work For Me(TM). Unfortunately, it's kind of hard to explain it in words. The site I learned it from had pictures. Much easier.
IANAMD but I had success by going to bed wearing a heavy winter glove. It would keep my hand warm and stretched. After a while the pain went away.
Yoga! Do some yoga each day, you won't have trouble anymore.
I sometimes think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. -- Oscar Wilde
Forum: http://www.repetitive-strain.com
....harsh eh? - naturally I gave the job up!
i ewforum.p hp?forum=1
Types: http://www.chicagolegalnet.com/rsi.htm
Personally I've used a computer a heck of a lot and I only got pain when I combined it with:
- playing guitar
- doing a very repetitive manual labour "I press a button" job
The pain would strike randomly and it felt like being electricuted on the arm. That pain travelled up the arm and trankfully stopped at the shoulder. Wasn't intensely painful but more of a shock, could cause a crash if you drive.
The only was to stop it I found was to stop playing guitar and using a computer
I expect the pain you're experiencing is very different from mine. I guess to fix all you gotta do is releve the pressure on the wrist - or not use the wrist at all somehow;
- for mouse: forms of input such as the web-cam + white piece of paper you attach to your baseball cap (!)
- for keyboard: not sure if possible without lowering speed
Be wary. Surgery has been performed on your sort of injury:
http://www.repetitive-strain.com/phpBB/v
A blog I run for the wealth
cragen.
Speaking as someone who is recovering from having a nasty case of Work Related Upper Limb disorder (chronic back, neck and arm pain), which grew from cubital tunnel syndrome (irritated nerve at the elbow / nack / shoulder) brought on by using a non ergonomic operators chair and leaning on my elbow while using the mouse, sort out your workspace: http://www.openerg.com/dse/index.html, stretch every 15 minutes while working, go see a physiotherapist and try a pilates class to stretch out the muscles which are possibly causing your problems.
Doing the above means I can manage my condition, but please be aware that it can take a _long_ time to sort these problems out, but you need to see a GP now.
First of all, I can't say anything about the insurance side, and such, since that is all rather different in my part of the world.
Last year, I finally had to admit that I was having too many pain problems in my arms. Both the company doctor and my "own" gp came to the same diagnosis: CTS in my right wrist and bursitis in my left shoulder.
First thing the company doctor had me do, was take rest - staying at home. While that helped for short terms, it also meant that I got less resistance against pain, meaning that the pain came back and got worse quicker, whenever I tried to do even the smallest thing. (Gotta love having to clean the kitchen, when you just dropped your food, cause it hurt too much and the arm is too weak!)
We then went for three months of therapy.
This therapy consisted of three parts:
During those three months, I slowly started working more hours again. From 0 hours a week when I started, to 30 hours a week by the end. This process went on during the period after those three months, till I was back to my normal 40 hours a week, about two months later.
Am I completely healthy again? Yes, sorta...
Yes, I can do my job again normally, and I do not have any pains whatsoever in my arms. But I have to make sure, even better than before, that I take regular breaks away from the computer.
For that my employer uses a program called WorkPace which, when set up correctly, forces one into a better "break rhythm". At first, being interrupted by micropauses and restbreaks, but it sure helps!
There are other programs that offer comparable functions, like the excellent open source (GNU GPL) program Workrave, which I use at home.
Grtz,
Frodo
I had a similar problem a few years ago. While I do suggest you see a specialist, I can also point to what I tried some time ago.
Getting frustrated with my mouse hand hurting all the time, I spent a, hour or two writing a quick program that would listen to my joystick port (I had a Gravis gamepad connected) and translate that into mouse movements (I was using Win98 at the time).
Suddenly I could use my left thumb to move the cursor, and I would use my right thumb to click (I mapped the other buttons by hand, for things like double-click, and cut and paste). Being lazy, I just put in some delays in the code (rather than using the clock) to get the cursor to move at the speed that I wanted it to.
After a few weeks, the pain was gone. I've since stopped using the software, and now pay more attention to ergonomics.
A side effect of the above was that browsing the web felt like a video game!
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
I had carpal tunnel problems a few years ago (ended up in hospital. My problems were made worse because I'd had a broken right thumb in my teens that hadn't been set properly, so what helped me may not help everybody. This is what I found helped:
1 Finger exercises (suggested by hospital doctor) - When I first had the problem, I couldn't actually complete a full set of these. They consist of different exercises, each repeated five times. Before starting, rest the elbow on a surface, holding the wrist a few inches above the surface, palm down. Then, lift and lower the hand five times, moving vertically but not horizontally, pivoting at the wrist. Second, still holding the wrist still, move the hand horizontally but not vertically, left and right five times. Third, clench and unclench a fist five times. Fourth, rotate the hand so the palm is up, and turn it back over five times. For the fifth excercise, you can move your wrist. (This is the difficult exercise, in my experience.) For each of your fingers in turn, run the tip of the thumb from the tip down to the base; repeat five times.
2. Get an ergonomic keyboard and ensure that all your computer equipment is set up to best help your posture. It only took me a few days to relearn how to type on the slightly different layout. I still use the Microsoft keyboard I got at the time.
3. The first two solved the problem for some time; when I had a recurrence, I saw a physiotherapist who basically suggested taking up the excercises regularly again and adding to them something to strengthen the muscles in the wrist and hand. Her suggestion was to get a rubber ball and squeeze it when not doing anything with the hand (e.g. when reading or watching TV).
You can rent this space for $5 a week.
A) not wealthy
- Go to doctor
- Doctor prescribes open heart surgery
- Get on waiting list for open heart surgery
- ...
- die of a heart attack.
B) wealthy- Go to doctor
- Doctor prescribes open heart surgery
- Travel to Minnesota
- Obtain open heart surgery
- Pay for it out of your own pocket
- Return to Canada
Yeah, growing up in Minneapolis did wonders toward making me a staunch opponent of socialized healthcare."Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
... and it helps (though it perhaps diminishes the degree of call it "slashbotness" for short one is in).
It is just important IMHO that you do not emphasize on 'The Form' but more on "body awareness" (following Patrick Kelly perhaps).
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Carpal Tunnel is a warning - if you are not careful, not only does it get worse, you get other bad things happening too.
I spent some quality time ignoring the CTS symptoms I was having and continued to pretend that all was ok. One morning (about 5.5 years ago) I woke up with a start because I thought my arms were on fire. A quick visual check ruled that out, but the sensation persisted. I made an appointment to see my GP and he quickly (thankfully) sent me on to a specialist instead of trying to fool about on his own. I ended up seeing a musician's injury specialist. Through a series of tests (nerve velocity, bone density scan, MRI) he diagnosed me with Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy. This is a rather horrible bit of a disease to end up with and is primarily caused by an ongoing irritation of sympathetic nerves (in my case, horribly microfractured wrists -- see bone scan for details). It doesn't go away and in fact was in remission for about 3 years and has recently cropped up. If you want more details, just reply to this and I'll fill you in.
PS: Thank goodness I'm in Canada and don't have to fight the insurance battle - the original poster has my total sympathy on that one.
I am not a doctor either, but I am someone who used to suffer with CTS and have since all but eliminated most of my problems. I have some disagreements with titaniam.
Lots of bike riding can further aggrivate Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Tennis, on the otherhand, can cause it's own set of problems. I am not a tennis player, but I am an advid biker, so I can only offer advice on biking. Biking gloves help mitigate the problem, but they do not eliminate it. Padding anywhere on the grip surfaces is always a plus. However, biking remains one of the worst activities for your hands and wrists.
Then you go on to mention frisbee and masturbation (which is implied by porn). I am not sure either one of these activities is all that great. You see, the fundamental problem with Repetitive Stress Injuries (like CTS) are repetitive motions. (Imagine that?) You want to do engage in activities that have a wide range of motions. Nothing you mention does.
This is not necessarily true. With a standard mouse, you are forced to a degree to use your whole arm to achieve motion. At least it's an option. With a trackball or trackpad, that motion is reduced to a single digit on your hand, which may contribute to the problem. In this case, ask an ergonomst.
Have you considered that when any kind of RSI is diagnosed by a physician early, treatments such as anti-inflamatory drugs can seriously reduce the damage done to your joints? In fact, visiting your doctor early and often regarding this problem can eliminate the need to have surgery.
I think overall we are learning here that a lot of advice on Slashdot is quite bad.
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yea, great idea... treat repetitive motion/stress injuries with... activities that are extremely repetitive and stressful. fucking idiot.
/. find these idiots?
oh yea, and never see your doctor! good one, that'll solve your medical problems real quick
where does
What they obviously need is an ergonomic mouse shaped like a penis/A..
Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
BL0RG H0MPH BAGLAGHAGLH C0CKS (HURR) NEXT
When I was at the point where just looking at somebody using a mouse made me cringe, I found these. The "Keyboarder" model solved my problem and I was pain free while using them. After 12-18 months I didn't need them anymore. Granted, I didn't have legit full blown CTS, but I had serious pain when typing and mousing.
I found the "softsplits" too tight and hard to type in.
Read the testimonials on their site... worst case, try em out and return em. Only cost is the shipping - the people on the other end of the phone are very friendly.
Adam
I am a bit older (50) and have survived CTS.
First of all google up some hand/wrist stretching exercises to try out - they feel great and helped me, here is the rest of my experience with CTS FWIW:
1. My HMO MD (my HMO is fantastic!) had me press the backs of my hands together for about 1 minute. When I released the pressure my hands tiggled = CTS!
2. He gave me braces that look like bowling wrist guards, to wear while I slept for 6 weeks. I was curling my wrists up while sleeping (stress makes you curl up into the fetal position while sleeping!). The braces trained my body to not do that, now I don't curl my wrists at night and don't wear the braces.
3. He adviced me to get jelly wrist pads for my computer and my mouse pad. Feels like breast implants......oh what, huh, back to typing!
The symptoms went away, no surgery, no pills, no worries mate!
Although now instead of curling into the fetal postion while sleeping I do a lot of sleep bowling....
...and you really shouldn't take it personally. :)
GHAGLUAGH (JERK C1TY) H0MPH (SPL0RT)
I would like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that Bush rolled back ergonomic safety regulations and trivialized the nature of RSI.
It used to be possible to get your employeer to repair poor ergonomic conditions by law. It used to be easier to get compensiation and medical costs covered for these types of injuries. No longer. Thanks George!
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I know this doesn't refer directly to your question (experiences in getting treatment), but I HIGHLY recommend you go to your local bookstore (several Borders in town had it) and at least look over "Repetitive Strain Injury: A Computer User's Guide", by Emil Pascarelli, MD.
t Cd -0471595330.html
I found a few references to it online as a good resource and it has been to me. I've been suffering from another form of RSI (they're all detailed in the book) for a number of years, and this is the first thing that is really helping me SOLVE the problem (in addition to things like my Kinesis Ergo Contoured Keyboard, using the Dvorak keyboard layout, etc.).
Here is a direct link from the publisher on it. Check it out.
http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/produc
At the ripe old age of 18 I lost my arms (well, the majority of use, at least). Took a year and a half to get properly diagnosed (three EMGs and an MRI; three neurologists, two orthopedic surgeons, a rheumetologist, two GPs, two physical therapists, a hand therapist, and a chiropractor). What is it? Bilateral carpal tunnel syndrome, bilateral cubital tunnel syndrome, and a half-dozen tendinitises (to name a few; I don't think they even have names for some of the others). I've been through every traditional (non-surgical) treatment out there, and will finally be going in for surgeries this summer (I'll be out of completely out of commission for twelve weeks). With any luck, there will be some improvement (all I'm guaranteed is a set of huge scars and a terrible summer).
If the air is below 80 degrees, my hands go numb. Pain is constant, and weakness is always around the corner. Bottom line: take it seriously - you don't want to end up in a position like mine. Do whatever it takes to keep it from happening. It's probably nothing (i.e. tendinitis), but make sure.
G
Nobody suggested this already?! Consult a good workers' compensation attorney.
The workers' comp system is there for people who have work-related injuries, including repetitive stress injuries. Nearly all injured workers are eligible, including undocumented immigrants, people who work "off the books," and, in many cases, even so-called "independent contractors."
Carpal tunnel and other RSIs can cause permanent disabililty (can affect your abililty to earn a livelihood) and they can get worse if not treated.
The workers' comp system is a no-fault system (you will win your case), it offers free lifetime medical treatment for your injury (benefits vary from state to state), it often offers substantial monetary payments to compensate for temporary and permanent disability, and it usually pays your attorney fees (your attorney is FREE to you).
If your employer neglected to buy workers' comp insurance, this is illegal, your attorney will file the claim with the state uninsured employers fund.
FYI, since the claimants nearly always win, their attorneys receive a fee that is far less than that received by most personal injury contingent fee attorneys.
Although sleazeball companies do exist, it is against the law to discriminate or retaliate against someone for filing a legitimate workers' compensation claim, and if you were injured on the job, whether all at once or over a period of months or years through repetitive stress injury, you are a legitimate claimant.
Go for it. IAAL.
http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/ency/article.cfm/Obj ectID/858B36BB-80C1-457B-9965650A58176C14/catID/0A 323459-4B09-4D32-BB8CD8E6058BE1CF
I'm approaching 55, can't feel my fingertips very well, drop things a lot -- had the surgery too late and it failed to help.
1993, got checked and told 'Tendinitis'; 1999, when it came back, was told 'you gave up your right to further treatment'. Saw an attorney who said 'how can they tell you it's the "same" problem without your seeing a doctor? Different things can cause similar pain."
Dealing with WC Insurer was a horror story, but then again, they're of business now, my company fired them when I showed that they were committing fraud by denying people treatment, as they did me.
(Turns out that in 1993 they called me and said my doctor told them I didn't need further treatment, and I believed it. In 1999 I got my then doctor's files -- they'd called him and told him I had refused further treatment in 1993. Six extra years of damage done thinking I didn't have a problem before my hands really failed.
By the time I got to a doctor, and had the surgery, it was too late to help. I can't feel my wife's skin, I can't hold little things like a handful of coins along with car keys; I can't reach into a drawer without looking and find by touch what I know is there.
And I have a fairly mild case compared to some of the older secretaries where I work who have had surgery three times and gone right back to work each time; some can't do anything with one hand.
One of my oldest friends since college had to give up a decent career, as a high end programmer, because he was in so much pain and had to give up the keyboard.
Me, I can do anything -- for a few minutes at a time. This is about all I can type for an hour though, without starting trouble again.
I was unlucky enough that I beat up the 'motor nerve' side of the cord -- the pressure sensors in the joint and nerves that keep the pressure correct when you hold something -- and most people beat up the 'sensory nerve' side of the cord first and get pain and numbness first, clumsiness later.
For me, clumsiness first, and by the time I realized I should have had real treatment in 1993, it was six years of serious keyboarding too late.
Put on a thin pair of very fine leather driving gloves, and wear them for 24 hours, then see if you want to live like that for your later years. If not, deal with this early.
CTS is caused by pressure(sustained/continuous) on the median nerve at the wrist, among other causes. If you go to a physician, s/he'll probably give you a corticosteroid, and refer you to physical therapy; there they may give you ultrasound therapy(effects are similar to corticosteroids) and they'll tell you the following; (1)Take breaks at work. Set an alarm to ring every 45 minutes, take five minutes off to exercise your wrist; flex it, extend it(start with a quarter range flexion, progress to full range by the end of the five minutes, etc), move it from side to side(radial and ulnar deviation), move it in a circle, etc. (2)Use a foam pad or gel mousepads; dont keep the ventral part of your wrist(under the palm;palmar surface) under continuous pressure. (3)When the pain becomes too much, use a hot pack on the anterior wrist area and exercise after you've kept it on for 15-20 minutes. (4)Wear night wrist splints. If you go to a orthotist, Im sure s/he'll be happy to help you pick it. Do not keep the wrist in full flexion, it may further irritate the nerve. Hope that helps. Surgery is only indicated if CTS is very severe, and if conservative treatment fails.
1. Don't spend too much time trying to narrow the cause of wrist problems (like CTS ) down to one specific thing. Instead, make a list of activities that either a) require small movements of hand and wrist or b) cause your forearm or wrist to contract or be tight. This is your list of dangerous activities. Now, just because you do some things, like type, use mouse, foosball, video games - doesn't mean that you're guaranteed problems. But, your risk increases with number of items, and extent of each one.
Causes: I agree that problems in the neck, back, or shoulder could exacerbate wrist problems, but I'm pretty sure that you need some repetitive motion of small hand muscles. These small motions use nerves that go through the wrist, and with overuse, these nerves get inflamed (swell) and make the wrist (carpal) tunnel too tight for everything in there. Therefore, if you use the forearm muscles, the tunnel gets tight, and if you do small hand motions, the tunnel gets tight.
2. Doctors and Money: I did all the Workman's Comp stuff. Even though I found the doctor useless, I do believe that they can provide benefits like giving people strong Ibuprofen, teaching them stretching exercises, and possibly measuring the degree of the problem. I'll discuss "rest" in point 3, but when I brought up that topic at the doctors, the response was "The only way we could say you need paid time off is if you were in the 911 explosion or had a leg chopped off. If you can dress yourself, you can keep going to work." This position makes total sense if you consider the economic toll of paid time off for everybody with a wrist issue.
3. Rest - is the best and most important cure. It is a sin that doctor's don't encourage this before drugs, etc. I took a week-long vacation and the symptoms went away after day 2. The first morning back at my desk, I could feel the wrists. This is a very tough issue for those workers who can't afford to rest for many weeks in a row.
4. Posture - is very important, in nearly every sport, or other use of the body. Make sure you sit in your chair well. Do some research. Wrist posture is critical. Do some more research until you know the 3 deviations of the wrist, and how to avoid each while typing. (hint: there is one that you can't avoid on a normal keyboard) All of the conversations about mice / trackballs fall into this category, and the main point is to use bigger (shoulder) muscles more, and minimize the small muscle hand movements. Try wearing CTS wrist braces to teach yourself more about correct wrist posture.
5. Stretching - is very important for your muscles, but remember the rubber band analogy: stretching a cold rubber band is bad. First, warm up by flexing all chest, back, shoulder, and arm muscles. Then, with all muscles still flexed, put arms up to side and do circles with arms until you get tired - keep going, suffer a little - then stop. Do this a couple times, until you warm up. Then, do many arm and wrist stretches that you'll research. Then work.
If you still suffer after studying causes, trying to rest, working on posture for 2 weeks, learning to warm up and stretch regularly, then the choices are 1) quit job or 2) ruin arms...
YOU MUST CHOOSE.