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Christian Game Developers Conference Plans Gathering
Thanks to GamerFeed for its story noting the Christian Game Developers Conference has announced its third annual gathering, to be held in Portland, Oregon on July 30th-31st. The official CGDC site has more information on the expo, which "officially expands to include card, board and paper game developers alongside interactive electronic entertainment." There's also word from conference organizer Tim Emmerich of GraceWorks Interactive: "We... plan to examine the variety of games currently on the market and successes in other media such as 'The Passion of The Christ' and the 'Left Behind' series, which proved that Bible-based products can do well in the market if they are well made."
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd love to see a game based on the Passion of Christ property. Play as Christ or the Romans!
Aren't they the people who crucify Santa Claus every Easter?
[ Its a joke, laugh. Or cry. Since it will probably be just as accurate as the rest of the comments in this thread. ]
That was absolutely the best ever game to license the Wolfenstein engine. Fire apples at sheep to make them so hungry they sleep. Peace on the ark, but I'm not sure what this taught me about Jesus.
Wouldn't a convention like that be happier in Austin or somewhere else in the Bible Belt? I'm a Portlander, and I hardly think the town is a hotbed of Christian values. Thank god for that - a big reason why I can see settling down and raising kids there one day.
Really, why Portland?
How is atheism a faith? It is by definition a lack of faith. It takes no leap of faith to deny a bunch of mumbo jumbo about supreme beings and all that trash.
Atheism is about refusing to believe all the rediculous beliefs spouted by the religious types.
They should base them on the AD&D system. Or maybe Magic: The Gathering.
...of the resurrection and the high production values of a fine filmmaker like Mel Gibson, is the Passion really any different then the violence-laden action crap that the right would be decrying if it were on a different subject or by Tarantino.
No, it is by definition a faith that there is no Deity. You are confusing it with agnosticism, which does lack faith.
"It takes no leap of faith to deny a bunch of mumbo jumbo about supreme beings and all that trash."
Yet it takes a leap of faith to believe that there is no God.
"Atheism is about refusing to believe all the rediculous beliefs spouted by the religious types"
Except for their own ridiculous belief. That puts the faith-based atheist like you in the same company as Falwell and Khomeini: "my religion is not faith, it is TRUE and SUPERIOR, and everyone else is idiots."
..."The Simpsons."
What was the game the Flanders' kids had? "Billy Graham's Bible Blasters" or something?
We... plan to examine the variety of games currently on the market and successes in other media such as 'The Passion of The Christ' and the 'Left Behind' series, which proved that Bible-based products can do well in the market if they are well made.
Well-made? Do Christians use different standards of judging craft than non-Christians? Asked another way, have you ever tried to read any of the Tim Lahaye books? If you seriously consider any of the books in the 'Left Behind' series to be well-made, that I can't wait to see some of the games that come out of this conference.
Neopets - the best free game on the Int
How about Mormon Games in which you spend all your time running from angry Native Americans because, you, as a Mormon, believe that Indians were too dumb to have made their own burial mounds and Israelites did it instead?
*ding dong!* "We're sorry. Your second pie's on us." "Pizza pizza!"
"The key difference here is that it takes no faith not to believe in something"
Yet you have it anyway.
I haven't seen "The Passion of the Christ" nor do I intend to ... but to see the "Left Behind" series mentioned in a sentence stating that Bible-based products do well in the market "if they are well-made" ... GIVE ME A BREAK!
The "Left Behind" series of alleged Christian sci-fi books" is, not to put too fine a point on it, hackneyed crap. The fact that they do well in the market is more a result of tightly targeting them on the large evangelical Christian demographic group than the quality of the writing.
utter rubbish
Although extreme Bible-thumping explicitly Christian games thus far have been rare and poorly-executed, there's no shortage of mainstream games with religious over/undertones, symbolism, or commentary. Deus Ex, Xenogears, and Alpha Centauri come to mind. Can someone name more?
For great justice.
all you do is prove the point that those of your religion have a real arrogance and intolerance problem toward those who do not share your views. It's not just the Muslims and the Religious Right who have this problem.
Commodotising ideas into consumer products for the mass market does just that: initiates them into the mass. The mass purely consumes. This won't help the actual influence of any ideas they're trying to put forth, it will have a negative effect if any. It's as quicksand.
Of course, they probably do know this, and it's just an attempt to get money for something or someone(s), somwhere. One must admit, that wouldn't be out of line with the actions of "religious" groups in the past.
Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
Why Christians games?
Quite simply the more games mature the more "adult" they become.
They same has happened with books, movies, and music.
Christian music is not what it is today because it has Christian lyrics, it was started as a clean alternative to the music of the day.
If mainstream music stayed "clean", Christian music would never have become so popular it may never have even been a seperate category.
The same will happen will books, movies, and computer games over time.
Computer games have slowly "matured" where it is not uncommon to have swearing, adult topics, etc, etc.
Christians don't desire to have "Christians" games(or any other type of media) so much as games that don't go against their moral beliefs.
Sorry for the disjointed post.
I actually clicked the link to see the CGDC official website and was treated to a Flash homepage that rendered about 1.5 inches tall and 3 inches wide on my Sun 21" Trinitron ... I hate to think what it would be like on my 17" monitor at home! The text on the page was, needless to say, completely illegible.
utter rubbish
WRONG. It proves that good story based products , good music, and good film will do well regardless of whether they're Bible based or not. Good art / good media is NOT PREACHY.
"Christian Rock"
"Christian Books"
"Christian Film"
and now "Christian Games". These usually turn out awful because
A:They're more concerned with evangelizing the audience than with telling a good story or being entertaining. And
B:The people making them are Christians first and producers of art/media/content second. It usually comes out like it was produced in a church basement by people with left over bake-sale cookies and a very inflated sense of relevance.
Sure they'll tell you that "OF COURSE we're Christians first above all else." But we all have rolls to play in life. You don't see any Christian Football Players. No, you see Football players who happen to be Christian.
If you want to build "Christian Games" then first concentrate on the game, the message comes second (or forget it). If you build Christian morality into something like for instance the Sims (community, teamwork, tolerance, sharing, caring generosity, etc.) then you'll have a great Christian game that's for everyone and teaches Christian values to the masses. So much better than a preachy Christian game for Christians that re-cements their already well indoctrinated beliefs.
Feel free to replace "games" with "music", "books", etc. above.
Operator, give me the number for 911!
Suggestions for Titles:
The Adventures of Young God
Moses vs Hoover Dam
The Great Whale Escape
Sodom and Gommorah Sims
Santa vs The Israelites
Jesus Chainsaw Massacre (aka WWJD Smackdown)
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
Wisdom Tree's NES games.
Did you know Sunday Funday was just a graphics hack of Menace Beach?
Also see: Bible Adventures.
"GOOD WORK! BUT YOU FORGOT BABY MOSES!".
Yeah, I'm sure the passion of the christ will make for a great game, with the player controlling Jesus, and.. getting beat up and stuff?
Now, if you could switch to Robot Jesus, Ninja Jesus, or Hyper Jesus, then we'd have something...
...So that Jesus will be properly rendered as being black.
It's actually the new Easter Barbie. You open up the box and there's nothing inside!
Wouldn't that qualify? Heck, any of the Sim* games let you play god to a certain degree...
What, how many people here actually care about Christian games? I thought this was "news for NERDS", not the 7100 club.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
You need to read the parent to this post... the subject line is a bit harsh but the post has a point.
Theism is faith in presence; atheism is faith in absence.
It is not so much argument as it is fact. Atheism is just another faith concerning deity. Nothing more, nothing less. Those who argue that it is the only true faith, the only logical one are as arrogant as the worst Christian or Muslim.
Ah yes, the Pacific Northwest.
White supremacist mecca of the United States of America.
As a Christian and a gamer, why do I need specifically 'Christian' games? I don't play 'Christian' soccer or 'Christian' chess now, do I? I can see the point of some Christian literature if it's actually educating me on some point of my faith , (writers like Philip Yancey come to mind). I can see the point of Christian music like that of delirious and Tim Hughes that serves a purpose in connecting me with God, but beyond that I'll be the first to admit that a lot of what the Christian sub-culture churns out is poor ripoffs of mainstream.
I presume that the marketdroids have realised that we're just another market segment that will dutifully lap up whichever books, films, and now even games that have the word 'christian' stamped on them.
I wish this wasn't the case, but it is.
Probably a lot of us have a typical response when we see a group that labels itself Christian going after a hot market whether it be music, games, junk food or whatever. But...
I recall receiving a letter sometime in the 1980's from a Christian youth regarding an RPG I co-wrote. His problem was he desperately wanted to play the game but since it contained demons as part of the monster list he wasn't allowed to. Apparently, in his case it was simply the label "demon" that placed it on the banned list and he pleaded that we simply change the name from "demon" to "beast". Alas, I couldn't accommodate him and ended up writing him a letter of apology.
Moral of story: There are a lot of frustrated gamers out there with choices limited by conscience or parents.
So, my sympathy goes to the gamer rather than a group trying to figure out how to get cash out of something like Davey and Goliath's Xtreme Rapture Rampage or whatever.
supprised to learn that there is a Christian Game Developers orginization? Sometimes I think I'm the only one that got the context of the post.
There's an old article I remember reading by a gentleman named John Fischer which talked about his efforts as a child to begin a Christian painting company. Things went very well until they knocked on the door of a lady who asked a very pertinent question: "Can you paint?"
Quite frankly, the problem with most Christian software is that it's not fun or well made. The problem with most Christian novels is that they're poorly written, and (dare I say...) the problem with most Christian music is that it's just not good music. (I say this having encountered and continuing to encounter a great deal of the material in question...)
Art and entertainment with an idealogical basis behind them (or theological) sets itself up for one of two fates. Either it accomplishes its attempts to communicate the transcendant and becomes truly great, or, more often, it fails miserably. Very rarely does it seem to be "just art" or "just entertainment." The art gains the hearing for the message, but only provided the art is of sufficient quality.
If Christians wish to use games/music/books/software/whatever as a means to share their faith, the first step in doing so *must* be to be one of the very best designer/artist/author/programmers out there. Simply being a "Christian programmer" is not enough. One must be a very good programmer who is also a Christian.
Bob: This guy sucks!
David: None of these people seem to think so.
Bob: I don't care; I'm funnier than he is.
David: Oh yeah, if you're so funny, how come you don't have your own show?
Bob: I did until you fired me! Well, I just don't think he's so great.
David: He makes more money than you do.
[Bob ponders the thought.]
V.O.: That's right, Bob. Listen to your friend, a person who makes more money than you is better than you, and therefore beyond criticism. This is called the Worthington Law [which reads "More Money = Better Than"] and it's used to gauge the value of human worth. Carl Espick, economist, and editor of Value Magazine.
Carl: Yeah, that's right. So what do you think? Wrong! Whatever you were gonna say doesn't matter because I make more money than you. That's if you're 80% of the public. So, I'm right. Each year, Value Magazine ranks the 500 best people in the history of the world. Did you know that, according to Worthington's Law, the opera singer who called himself The "Great" Caruso was nowhere near as great as Sammy Hagar, The Red Rocker? So shut up, Caruso! Hey! Who's greater than Saint Francis of Assisi? How about, uh, Darryl Strawberry? See ya later, Saint Frannie, ya schmuck. Hey, guess who's better than Van Gogh. Let's see, after adjusting for inflation...[uses calculator] almost everybody! He made nothing! [shot of John fixing car]
John: So that means that I'm better than Van Gogh and Galileo put together!
Carl: And I'm better than you, brainiac. In 1995, Steve Peaters had no money. He was a public school teacher, so his opinion wasn't worth very much. But then, in 1996, he won the lottery, and he was a great man. Greater than Einstein, who made very little. But then, guess what this genius-for-a-day does. He goes and gives his money to charity. Now he's about as dumb as Einstein. Way to go, Einstein. So, read Value Magazine, and get to know the 500 best people in the world.
If there is no evidence of what the disbelief concerns, then it is still a faith. Atheism is a faith like any other. Your quoted dictionary definition only bolsters that you are incorrect.
What would the point of this game be? To evade the romans, change history, and never allow the religion to come about? Which would probably go against their beliefs.
Or to find the romans, taunt them, let them beat you, and then die? Which, on the other hand, is usually the opposite point of playing a game.
I'm unsure what the point of this game would be.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
a) I'm acutely aware of the religion following Slashdot readership. It's become more problematic of late when threads go down that path.
b) I'm suggesting more the latter. But also that I don't think it's a worthwhile topic of discussion unless you are simulataneously considering my argument that the "Christian Entertainment" industry hurts itself by isolating itself. I didn't see the foot (It's Funny, Laugh) icon, so...
c) You have to read all MY posts with tounge fimrly planted in cheek. Seriously. And read the whole thing, carefully.
d) Give me a fucking break.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
What are you talking about?
Your rediculous statment assumes there is such a thing as the supernatural, which is a religious notion.
Not beliving in the supernatural is not a leap of faith. It is a choice not to believe in something that can not be proven. Not believing in something that has not been proven is not faith, but rather a lack of faith.
The flip side of this is that Theism is a leap of faith to believe in something that can not be proven. That doesn't make it wrong, but it does make it a faith. In fact as far as I know, having this "faith" is one of the most important aspects of most religions. It is supposedly a virtue to have faith (I think it is silly, but then I'm biased).
Why is this such an issue to those who have faith? Wouldn't you want to put distance from the "unbelievers"? Why insist that we have faith too?
Atheism is a religion like any other.
1) I can say "M$ is dumb" and no one will mod me down flamebait.
2) I can't say "Christianity is dumb", I'll get modded into the floor.
Statements 1 and 2 are opinions. Statements 1 and 2 are opinions often held by nerdish people. So why the double standard? Does everyone assume that it's not okay to put down peoples beliefs that have nothing to do with technology?
In this case the fields intersect. I don't think I should be modded down for expressing my opinion, especially in this case.
And just cause I'm cussing. Fuck, I always cuss. It's because I'm tired of people who write: Holy S*** and FU in their posts. As if the slashdot regex matching police were going to come and get them.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Your argument assumes that there is no such thing as a the supernatural, which is another religious assertion.
"Not beliving in the supernatural is not a leap of faith"
It becomes a leap of faith if you assert that that supernatural does not exist.
"It is a choice not to believe in something that can not be proven"
The non-existence of the supernatural is one of these things. Actually, it is as provable or unprovable as any religious assertion.
"It is supposedly a virtue to have faith (I think it is silly, but then I'm biased)."
You are biased because you are blinded by your own faith. You think those who do not have your religion are silly. Religious bigots of all kinds have this characteristic.
Theism and atheism both tout declarations of belief concerning something that is supernatural. A materialist scientific verdict cannot be given either way. Therefore, they are both faiths. Theism is faith in presence; atheism is faith in absence.
Incorrect. If theism is "faith in presence" then atheism, or "non-theism" means "absence of (faith in presence)". Huge difference. You're confusing "I don't believe that" with "I believe the opposite of that".
I don't think most Christian stuff can hold a candle to the non-Christian stuff. It might be because all Christian games applarently must be a sermon in disguise. It could also be that they usually have exponentially lower budgets (I remember a Christian film bragging about its budget of "nearly one million dollars"). Other people have also discussed there reasoning, and I agree with it, to the most part.
Ever noticed how everybody talks about how great, say, "Left Behind" is? It's really not that great of a book - compare it to other popular (not-Christian) books out there, and, well, it's pretty...meh. But it's supposedly the best Christian book ever (well, besides the Bible ^_^). I think that it's not because all Christians are awful writers, but there just in a smaller pond - rarely is Christian stuff compared to non-Christian stuff, and Christian stuff is usually lower quality. I guess what I'm getting at is, well, being the best author ever on your block isn't saying as much as the best in the country.
And I think this "Christian games" thing is blown out of proportion - in all my life, I've seen around 10 Christian games, never at "big" stores, just at Christian bookstores and the like. But its supposed to be the next "Christian music" - which has hundreds of singers and stuff, and can be found at my local Wal-mart. It could very well be because lots of Christians (NOT ALL - don't take me the wrong way) usually take a bit longer to "warm up" to new stuff, in my opinion (and in a LOT of personal experience).
I'm not expecting Christian games to be anything big anytime soon. I mean, I've still seen Wisdom Tree's NES games for sale. And if and when Christian games are anything more than ripoffs of other game and Disney-style "activity centers", I doubt they will be as good, simply because there's fewer people interested in making them and buying them.
Just my two cents.
you cannot claim to have conclusive evidence of anything when billions of people around the world, looking at the exact same evidence, draw the opposite conclusion
:-)
Wait a minute... which ones? It seems to me all of them come to differing and mutually exclusive conclusions. Most acknowledged atheists look at this and deduce that the truth must be the intersection, namely THE EMPTY SET.
Unless religion and dieties are somehow a socially-local phenomenon. Which is interesting in and of itself (which means atheists are also correct as far as they are concerned).
So I guess it really doesn't matter at all, then, what anyone thinks.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
They are preaching to the choir or alienating people that could not care less about the religious overtones of their endeavours.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I think a big problem is that methodists and catholics and lutherans all have different variations on the belief, and the you get a bunch of christian programmers, but they all have differeng beliefs, and we end up with the dreck that the market puts forth under the Lord's name! we should pick one denomination to make the games.. the one that has the most faith, I'd say. so I propose that all the other christian denominations leave the christian video game scene to one specific denomination who will do it the most justice and make the best christian electronic entertainment of all: the Amish.
Look it up.
You are thinking of agnosticism, which asserts that the knowledge of the supernatural that would be required to choose either theism or atheism cannot be known by humans, e.g., both positions are bogus.
Atheism is the paradoxical doctrine that implies that atheists can and have investigated the supernatural realm which they believe to not exist, and the knowledge they found as a result of their investigation of this non-existent realm is that God isn't there.
Boy, I sure hope this year's is better. I had a big booth for my game, "Win the Wicked," (selling for $49.99) and last year some weird Jewish guy with a whip came through the hall yelling and overturning tables everywhere. Something about his father's temple. WTF? Guy was on speed or something. Probably cost the developers at the conference a thousands of dollars each. The damage he caused to my equipment was why I had to push back the game a few months. Who did he think he was anyway, stopping me from selling my Christian games? This is America, a Christian country!
I hear they got an injunction against him this year though. For all the trouble he caused me, he could be rotting in a grave for all I care.
Maybe we can play games like 'Who's the biggest ass-wipe', 'Who's the biggest bigot', 'Who didn't vote for John Ashcroft', 'Bonk the Pope', and 'Which cardinal is a virgin in back'!
And my favorites, 'Let's all be pathetic' and 'Let's set the world back three hundred years'!
Woo hoo!
This just reminds me of a NES game a friend of mine picked up at a garage sale for a nickle a couple of years ago called "Exodus: Journey to the promised land"
Essentially, the player played as moses leading the jews out of egypt as in Exodus, but what was really funny is that you walked around as this moses character and shot and killed the egyptians with the "word of god" wich was just this W that you shot out.
The game itself was actually quite terrible, but it was so bad that we all have a good laugh popping it in every once in a while.
Of course i'm suprised that they are going to think about having anything to do with pen and paper games, which is so closely related to D&D, because as everyone knows "Dungeons and Dragons, Satans game..." (if you don't know what i'm talking about check out Dungeons and Dragons, an 8 bit re-enactment)
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
In the name of Jesus and with the blessing of the Pope, invade countries that are your technical, scientific, and cultural superiors, slaughter the inhabitants, and on the way there, get rid a few of the Church's main Christian rivals.
The other one that looks good is Witch Hunt:
In the name of Jesus and with the blessing of the Pope, go whole hog on S/M: Randomly pick women to torture, rape, and murder (not necessarily in that order). Women who have helped liberate France from foreign invaders get extra points!
I've heard there is a newer version of that called Stone the Homosexual, but then I'm probably going to get modded down enough as it is.
Seriously, people, where does this idea come from that Christian games will be any more tolerant, life-loving, or enlightening than the past 2,000 years of Christian history have been?
Ah yes, the Pacific Northwest. White supremacist mecca of the United States of America.
Oh, now you're just being jealous because it was the southern states which participated in the black slave trade. If you hadn't forced so many black people to be your slaves, you would have more white people there too!
would be kinda cool.
To all those that modded the parent as troll: can't handle the truth, can you? Come on--it should be +3 insightful/informative or better! To illustrate the giant leap backwards taken by christian music: compare Handel's "Messiah" or Mozart's "Requiem" to the current pile of unartistic palp labeled "christian music" today. The former invoke real emotion and convey a real and christian message that appeals to just about everybody, regardless of the faith (or lack thereof) of the listener. Now how about current outstanding representatives of Christian Music today...like...uh...whatshisname...uh...Simon O'Whosits...or...um...Schmoe McDinkle...naw...er...hmmm...that band...The Fundiesons? No christian artist today has any cultural significance of any kind. The only emotion they can bring up in anyone is pure, raw rage...directed against the christian "artist." The only message conveyed is to please for the love of God strangle the syrupy sanctimonious untalented pimple of a human being before they can sing again and disgrace christianity even further. Troll? You pukes make Jesus cry.
Is it only me who thinks the parent was supposed to be 'funny' rather than 'insightful'?
in your little war, but it seems like a little common sense is missing here. Any religion can be made to look bad by only looking at certain parts of it. It seems to me like your missing the big picture. You quoted all of two laws of the old testament. now, one would assume that you used the two laws that best supported your argument, right? so you have two. now, take a look through all of the laws in the old and the new testament, and look at how many of them are designed to protect people. also remember that you have to take into context the culture that it was all written to. I'm not entirely sure, but something tells me that a few thousand years BC, if you raped someone, there were no repurcussions. and if a woman in any way harmed a man, she'd be killed. by comparison, these laws begin to look a little more fair. you can't judge everything in the context of the 21st century. OH, btw, if you read the story of the tower of babel, God wasn't afraid, he was ticked at the peoples' pride.
So a friend and I have made this D&d based RPG-roguelike game, and we find out that one of those crappy "charge-money-for-other-peoples-work" websites is hosting it. I have a look, and their review of it says "its an excellent game, except that you worship dieties, which arent God, so this game sucks."
Seriously, what is wrong with these people (the website guys, not tarring all christians with the same brush) that they cant appreciate a FANTASY GAME without bringing god into everything? Im an atheist (and a pretty strong one), but I ENJOY the aspect of worshipping different gods when i play a game. Hell, I've even played Christians wielding "True faith" before. The thing is that these are GAMES. Its like people who play GTA, then go out and steal a car, and claim GTA made them do it. Learn to seperate reality from fiction people!
- "Strong atheism is an
- explicit belief that there are no deities. (They may, for example, be considered an impossibility.) Such a position usually commits one to having, or at least allowing for, positive assertions about and explanations of the natural world which do not require a deity.
Weak atheism (non-theism) means a non-belief in the existence of any deity, not a belief in the non-existence of any deity. It can also be synonymous with irreligious. You're assuming it _always_ means "strong atheism" which is bullshit. Scroll down half way to the Wiki chart in Agnosticism and see that both *-agnostics and *-atheists can have positions which stem from a "lack of belief".Weak atheism is a mere lack of belief in any deity. (One may hold that there is not enough evidence to support a decision, or one may simply not have a position). This is related but not equivalent to agnosticism, which affirms that a person cannot have firm knowledge of the existence nor the inexistence of any deity. Nonetheless the two terms are often used interchangeably."
Hey, I'm getting the hang of your logic. What if I purchased some McDonald's food and resold it, completely unchanged, for 1 cent more? Wow, suddenly selling the *exact same food* for a penny more means that I have made a better quality _meal_ than McDonald's.
Okay, let me try another one! I go to buy the Gideon Bible at a small bookstore. They want $9.95 for it. I find the exact same Gideon Bible at Walmart for $9.75. Same ISBN, same wrapping, same color, etc. So, hang on... I think I've got it... the small bookstore is selling a product which is better quality than Walmart's. Yes! I understand your religious reasoning.
Shit, this new logic amazes me, dragon boy. Explain again how you employ sheep's bladders to prevent earthquakes...
Read Deuteronomy. In most cases, you rape someone and you get stoned. Only when the chick isn't pledged to be married do you avoid a stoning, and you get the bonus that you can marry the rapee and you can't get divorced.
You're right about the Babel story. My mistake. I must have been thinking of something else entirely.
You know, I can pick various other scriptures and watch the bible bash itself. Like numerous "nobody has ever seen God and lived" compared with "Moses spoke with God face to face, as a man talks to his friend". 100% contradiction. The Bible is full of them. What about all those promises God gave but never fulfilled? I don't agree with all of these (many are subject to how you interpret them, but many more aren't) but check them out yourself.
And, if you're in the reading mood, compare Buddha and Jesus. Buddha lived some 800 years before Jesus. Funny, then, that Jesus has a life story almost 100% identical to Buddha and taught almost identical teachings! If I didn't know any better, I'd be tempted to say that Jesus copied everything Buddha did!
If you knew anything, you would know that proving a negative is the same as proving a positive. Negativity or positivity is just a quality, not a big difference.
"it's up to the person making the claim to offer proof. If you claim that God *does* exist, the burden of proof is on you."
Just the same as if you proof God does not exist.
A religion does not require practices. There are plenty of theists who believe in their God or Goddess, but don't do anytning about it.
Kinda bothers me how many people are on here being total Trolls. Me? I'm no fan of the right, of fanatical believes, etc. But I am a fan of being open minded, and being open to let others enjoy their beliefs without ridicule, as long as those beliefs allow for others.
I guaruntee you that for every pompous putdown and ridicule based rant here you'll find another in some "religeous right" forum that you'd gleefully quote as to say, "See what jerks these guys are?". So who's the "deluded fool" then I gotta wonder? Who's more closed minded?
Atheism is the paradoxical doctrine that implies that atheists can and have investigated the supernatural realm which they believe to not exist, and the knowledge they found as a result of their investigation of this non-existent realm is that God isn't there.
No, atheism is simply the lack of a belief in any gods. No investigation required; there's no evidence of anything to investigate. Here's a link to help you out.
I had a very odd experience once. I went to a Christian School conference with the school that I teach at. There was an entire room filled with "Jesus Junk" -- T-Shirts, bracelets, mugs, etc. Prominently displayed were many, many WWJD? items. At that moment, I had an image in my mind of Jesus turning tables over, saying "you shall not turn my Father's house into a den of theives."
But I chickened out.
My feeling about Christian games is similar: why use Jesus' name as the drawing point for commerce? I can't properly rationalize it.
My feelings about Christian music are more conflicted. Some bands are in it for the money and fame; others for the music; others in order to "make a difference"; still others for the honorable purpose of expressing their thoughts, which happen to be Christian; still others in order to honor God with their musical talents. I can't condemn the genre as a whole, but I sure don't purchase very much of it. (Rich Mullins being a prime exception)
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.