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Turbolinux Licenses Windows Media 9
spike-288 writes "According a press release, Turbolinux is the first major Linux distributor to license and ship a media player capable of streaming Windows Media audio and video. The new product, "Turbolinux 10 F..." is based on Turbolinux 10 Desktop but will also include licensed versions of Macromedia Flash, legal commercial DVD playback (via Cyberlink's PowerDVD player), RealPlayer 8, commercial Kanji fonts and iPod support via gtkpod (including enhanced functionality)." Update: 04/28 02:33 GMT by T : Prostoalex adds "The Windows Media codecs for Linux will be available for download for $64, the complete TurboLinux OS will cost $150 in Japan and the United States."
It shows that there is a real place for Linux in the commercial/proprietary software market. Using this, as a foot in the door, the more open standards can be intorduced and promoted to gain larger foothold.
Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
Sounds nice. I would pay $20 for something like that but $146???? That's too much for what you get.
Eric
Weird, but I can do the same thing with Slackware and Mplayer for free.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
This sounds good to get things working in the short term, and for US distro's where reverse engineering to by-pass copy-protection isnt allowed, but surely in the long term its better to reverse engineer formats if companies wont release specs or code?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
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:)
""Turbolinux 10 F..." will be available for purchase in Japan on May 28, 2004 and is priced at $149 per copy. Customers upgrading from the previous version of Turbolinux Desktop can purchase 10F for $64. Customers outside Japan can purchase "Turbolinux 10 F..." starting June 30, 2004."
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So, for $149, one gets:
* Legal DVD Playback
So... the extra price in this case is to maintain legality with a piece of legislation (the DMCA), which, in the context of libdvdcss, does not make a significant appeal to the common sense politicians are so well known to lack. For an extra price, you can comply with the DMCA. Linux already has everything you need to play DVDs, except this one piece of legality, which is bound to cost more than all the rest combined.
* Legal WMA Playback
First of all, who uses WMA anyway? We all know ogg is THE format for audio, and if not that, mp3. As for video, there are far better (cheaper) routes to go.
* Realplayer
Hmm... realplayer for linux is a free (not libre) download...
Flash support
Oh yeah, this is worth a piece of the price all right.....
Unless they got the code from Macromedia and fixed all the problems, this is worth nothing.
And for this little insertion of proprietary code, I suppose redistribution is going to be illegal, despite the 99.9% prevalence of (superior) GPL'd code this distro is sure to have.
This makes our TCO look _really_ bad.....
Don't get me wrong here, I don't have anything against selling Linux, or support for Linux, for money. But this kind of thing is something that should be marketed as an add-on for any linux distro, not as part of a distro that will be rendered illegal for distribution due to this proprietary code.
Defenestrate Windows...
AFAIK, TurboLinux is/was one of the bigger PPC Linux distros. I saw nothing specifically mentioned in the PR about this, but does this mean that WM9, RA8 and reasonably up to date Flash support has finally spread from x86? I hope other vendors like Terra Soft (Yellow Dog Linux) will follow suit or sublicense from TurboLinux. At least for their not-downloaded-for-free versions.
Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
Just about 3 hours ago I was reading an article, cant remember where ..cough cough.. about how evil the Sun desktop is because they are licensing technology from Microsoft and are therefore desecrating the GPL somehow. Got it, Sun uses proprietary third party code in their distro, and are therefore evil. So I better find a new distro. I was thinking about Turbolinux 10F. I hear it can play proprietary Windows Media and Real formats, isn't that awesome!!! Man I can't wait. Ill never use that stupid evil Sun distro again.
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
The real tragedy is that Slashdot could post a story that uses the phrase:
and not leave everybody scratching their head saying, "Huh?"
Playback. Just playing the frikkin' things, even if you own them completely on the up-and-up, is of questionable legality unless you do it in an Officially Sanctioned Manner. How stupid is that?
Our society has lost so much perspective it's very scary.
-Rob
You are what is wrong with the Linux community, thinking that everything should be/is free. Do you think they are the first company to sell a distribution? RedHat, Mandrage, SUSE, you can buy a copy of their distro from all of em. If you don't like doing so, then just DL an ISO somewhere, otherwise, quit complaining.
As the other poster pointed out, just because something runs on Linux (or is Linux), does not mean it's free. You are helping to propagate the myth that everything about Linux is free, if that were the case, I highly doubt as many big name companies would do ANY development work in porting their apps to Linux, just to give them away for free.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
At first glance everyone may cry heretics! but this is an interesting approach to making a commercial Linux. The core may be free but tack on a few proprietary extras and charge for it. The only thing keeping Linux from the mainstream is the lack of applications that "just work" like everyone expects. Don't want to pay for all that extra stuff? Download the "lite" version (a.k.a. the all-GPL and compatible licenses version) without all the extras and continue as normal.
Now, some distros, such as SuSe may have tried this to a limited extent before but the only thing you got from the boxed set was a proprietary installer, not exactly thrilling. I would love to pay for a Linux distro that included useful applications that weren't just carbon copies of existing apps, only open source. Yeah, it might not be fasionable to use proprietary apps but dammit, I want something that is compatible with closed standards that FOSS hasn't been able to reverse engineer yet, if that means paying for it then so be it.
I for one think this is a great idea, after all, the whole concept of Linux is that you can have it any way you want.
This is Microsoft's main ploy - it locks aunt Millie into using Microsoft operating systems basically forever.
Now, Microsoft has set a precedent for licensing its formats to Linux distributions.
The real problem is that it is evil to use Microsoft formats, regardless of the operating system.
Contrary to previous posts, this is NOT a good thing.
O wow...complete with Real Player? Why don't ya just boot windows?
Sounds like your joking, but you are right in my view. I run two desktop systems, a Linux and a Windows PC. They are different OSs for different things.
404
So a linux deskop with a half dozen pieces of licensed proprietary standards is all that seperates us from being a viable desktop for home users. This really shows how far the linux desktop environments have come. Two years ago i would have never considered running linux exclusively.
Yes, you simply have to de-select the DRM features when ripping/encoding your DVD's. Or did you want to remove DRM from other peoples media?
/open standard. Not, "can I remove DRM?".
Sorry to play devils advocate there
The main argument sould be that it is not free software, not open source, and not based on a free
Thank you for your time,
BBH
The Windows Media codecs for Linux will be available for download for $64, the complete TurboLinux OS will cost $150 in Japan and the United States.
64 dollars for the codecs?! That's two third of a Windows XP Home OEM license!
And what I don't understand is why I would have to pay for these codecs, if the WMP9 codecs are offered on Microsoft's web site at the same time, for free!
But of couse, that's Microsoft's trick. Increase the Linux TCO for end users by charging ridiculous amounts of money for increasingly important components for Linux, while bundling them with Windows XP with no extra charge.
Please, People! In spite of their horrible adware-ridden previous software versions, RealNetworks has redeemed itself considerably, lately. Both with their RealPlayer 10 for Windows and as well as with their partly open-source Helix framework for Linux. Their codecs are pretty good and they've been the only one of the big three streaming media players (WMP, Real, Quicktime) that have consistently taken Linux seriously over the years, by supporting it as an official platform.
Don't let Microsoft obtain yet another desktop monopoly!
When given the option on media streaming websites, I always select Real- or Quicktime-format.
I currently have the WMP9 codecs installed on my Gentoo system, but I have them only in case I encounter a website with streaming media content that provides its content exclusively in WMP-format. Unfortunately, I've been encountering more and more of those lately. We need to turn back the tide, if we still can.
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
# emerge mplayer
# emerge win32codecs
# emerge realvideo-codecs
Cost: $0.
The look on your face when gentoo is forced to stop distributing MS and Real's intellectual property: priceless.
I personally can't see what the advantage is in paying for closed media formats on linux. It seems a bit paradoxical but perhaps it might encourage people making the switch.
It might be difficult convincing people to pay for something in linux, that is provided already free in Windows however.
Not a very compelling commercial package by my estimations however.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
Guys, this is great news. Its an acknowledgment from MSFT that the Linux desktop is an unstoppable force. Who knows, MSFT might be forced to bring out Office for Linux next. ;-)
Kevin
Kevin Foreman
Thank you Rob -- and yes, I'm sitting here scratching my head over the whole concept ... of a lot of things.
... I FUCKING OWN IT. Period. Frankly, after that point, I don't give one, or two, flying fucks about the laws involved. I'm going to do as I damn well see fit.
.AAC or .M4P type Apple files and convert them to OPEN .MP3 format for playing on ANY FUCKING DEVICE I WANT/HAVE (even though they are used mostly on a iPod :). Mostly...
... that I FUCKING PURCHASED. Go figure.
A lot of these big companies just don't seem to get the concept that if I buy it
I take DVD's [purchased] and move them to a open crunched movie format so I can watch them where I want, when I want, and HOW I FUCKING WANT. I like ~1G (or less) file sizes for movies -- and it's amazing how many I can stack on the laptop hard drive for viewing on the plane. I WILL NOT USE A DVD PLAYER SUCKING UP MY BATTERY.
I happen to purchase
I would never own a X-Box, but *if* did you damn well can bet I'll cut and snip any FUCKING WIRE I WANT TO so it can boot Linux.
And as long as Satellites are bombarding my brain with signals I'll damn well listen in with any device I want
This is turning out to be one fucked up world...
Guilt free? That's easy--there should NOT be any guilt at watching your own legally purchased, rented, or borrowed DVDs. The platform must NOT be a legal limitation.
Do you actually mean 'within the law?' In that case, you're home free too! As you can see on the EFF website, the decryption code lawsuits have been dropped! DeCSS is safe, legal, and free!
Furthermore, Jon Johansen was acquitted on all charges.
Download DeCSS! Use it! Feel free, in every sense of the word! This was a rare victory for the good guys.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Personally, I don't use WMP, but I think in terms of advancing Linux on the desktop for the average non-techie user, this is good, because like it or not, there is a lot of Windows Media stuff out there that the average person wants to play.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
I imagine that a good portion of this $150 is for the DVD Playback. The last several DVD drives that I have bought have included a copy of the PowerDVD player software! I can understand that there is some cost involved in getting their program to run under Linux, but if you can get their player for free with the purchase of a $35 DVD drive, why so much for those of us that want a better OS?
But while playback may be legal, not all playback tools are. DeCss and, sadly, any program based off of it, is illegal in the US. It is a foolish distinction setup by people trying to separate us from our money, but it is a legal one. This distro would give a business that relies upon DVD playback, such as an authoring studio, a screening lab, or somesuch, an option that would stand up to a BSB investigation. Plus they can stream windows media, which another section of thier business may rely upon and which would be far more difficult to do legally than simple DVD playback.
I agree that it is scary. I don't think that our society has lost perspective, so much as gained a perspective pushed by large financial interests. But if you are an insufficiently large business, you must play by the rules.
The ______ Agenda
Incorrect. The price of Windows is included with the computer. More accurately, you're claiming that the price of Windows comes bundled in with the cost of the computer, and you have to go out of your way to avoid paying for a copy of Windows with every new PC. This is what you may hear being referred to as the "Microsoft Tax".
While not impossible, this is highly unlikely. According to Pricewatch, XP Pro Academic Upgrade is currently running $68 ($80 for the boxed version).
More likely is that your university has joined Microsoft's Campus Software Programs (either willingly or because it was coerced by Microsoft; more details if you want). Essentially, the students all pay $30-$70 per semester and, in return, they can go to their local bookstore, show proof of ID, and get an upgrade version of Windows XP (read your license carefully!), and one copy of MS Office. Other software may also be included (at my uni, Publisher and Visual Studio are also included). You then go down to the bookstore and plunk down more money for software you probably don't need anyway on top of the per-semester payments!
Pretty sweet deal if you ask me. Well, for Microsoft anyway--universities shell out even more money for software they likey don't need (as you pointed out, Windows is gonna be installed anyway), and the school will find it even harder to switch away from Microsoft (since that'd require recalling (and auditing the recall of!) every piece of software given out under the programme).
What's worse is hearing people, being fleeced $150-$350 over 5 years,--not counting summer school-- for software they don't need anyway, and hearing them say it's such a great deal because they get Windows XP Pro for $7!
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
DRM - removing your rights everywhere!
Lindows Steals Copyrighted Art and Promotes Porn
1) Divx doesn't do DRM.
2) Pron is moving to DRM (via DRMed WMV). Give it a year and free video trading will dry up substantially (but not go away, obviously).
3) If you can show them another DRM solution outside of MS that works, they'll jump on it.
Hint: the 4 major rules are double email optin (some of these guys email, but legitimately), single email optin (which is fucking pointless) and member/password, and popups (which is pretty fucked up considering it will ONLY pop an IE browser).
So there ya go... show me some DRM outside of MS that is any good, and I'll show you an industry that will pounce on it.
Hammer of Truth
Have you ever stopped to think that the whole hard line of "No Non-Free stuff" is actually damaging? I run Linux, but I use the Nvidia drivers, and have a few proprietary games/codecs. I'd rather run a 99% Free system, than 100% Non-Free.
Also, some of us use Linux because it's better. It's more flexible, more powerful, and more scriptable. I like the cool little toys you get with it, like kweather, and you know that none of it is spyware, because it is GPL (and in wide use).
DeCSSS is not "safe, legal, and free". All that came about in the rulings is that the DeCSS code is no longer secret. They did not find him guilty because all he did was find out the trade secret and publish it. That's no big deal. Like if I found out McDonald's "secret sauce", KFC's "Colonel's Secret Spices", or the recipe to Coca-cola. These are secrets. Just b/c it is no longer a secret does not mean you can still distribute it. The DVD CCA still owns the rights to it. Also, that only applies to Norway. In the US (and possibly other countries, of which I am unaware of those governing laws), you could still be in trouble.
I'm not in the know about this stuff either, but I don't think its fair to dismiss Helix because of Real's history on Windows. The Linux client doesn't do any of those things, its just not even close to open/free. This does look different, and is for sure a leap in the right direction.
They probably mean legally. Ya, mplayer will play WM-9 just fine, but they nab files that they don't have a license for to do that. WM-9 is an open standard, not a free one, so if they haven't paid the licensing fees, they are breaking the law. Now odds are MS just isn't going to care, it's not for profit and open source, nothing to be concerned about. Same as the MPEG group with Xvid. While the project itself is probably protected as an academic work, being source only and free, it's use would require a license (MPEG-4 is also open, but not free). However I doubt you'll see the MPEG consortium going after people for non-commercial, personal use of it. IS still technically illegal though.
Looks to me like the TurboLinux people actually went and licensed the WM-9 codecs, and so are fully licensed to be distributing them. That would be a first in the Linux world, and actually somewhat of a first anywhere. WM-9 hasn't been an open standard for all that long and I'm not aware of any licensed 3rd party implementations until now.
It could just be the FreeBSD version? Under Fedora MPlayer and Xine work very well for me. There are also other front-ends to xine such as totem for GNome which is very nice as well.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Licenses and purchases of licenses and what-nots?
This is starting to look a lot like a typical windows discussion.. Why go through all this, why not just use windows?
We use Linux because we want the freedom of the GPL and the freedom to download and compile OS apps and not get locked into restrictive licenses for proprietary codecs and applications.
Not to mention were basically a bunch of cheap bastards that like free shit... At least I am....
Yes, you simply have to de-select the DRM features when ripping/encoding your DVD's. Or did you want to remove DRM from other peoples media?
I believe what the parent poster wanted was to remove DRM from his own media, but not from media that he had himself created. The concept that you only "own" media you've created yourself is ridicilous; If I have bought a DVD in a store, it's mine. I don't own the copyright, but the physical product belongs to me, so if I want to remove DRM from it, that's my business and my right. By any sane definition of the word, that does not infringe copyright. Making copies for my personal use is Fair Use.
Obviously, I don't live in the US. Where I live, when you've bought something, you own it.
Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
Enjoy it while it lasts..
Pirating? one guy in his house? I live in south east asia. Pirating is going to the mall and seeing thousands upon thousands of pirated DVD's of all the movies ever made being sold for profit. A dude in his house wanting to wath a DVD on his linux box is not pirating. Go after the people that make money off it.
I used to live in SE Asia too, and yeah, you can walk into any video shop and buy a VCD for about a buck. But that's not piracy either; piracy is robbing ships by force of arms. What those shops are doing is copyright infringement.
:-) is not even copyright infringement, it really is fair use. Now, if you *distribute* a copy, that is infringement.
What one guy in his house does (and there are many, many people who copy DVDs purely for fair use reasons, starting with all of us who have toddlers in the house
Backing up your Disney DVDs so your kids don't destroy them, then playing the backups while the originals are kept under lock and key, is not infringement.
I used to live in SE Asia too, and yeah, you can walk into any video shop and buy a VCD for about a buck. But that's not piracy either; piracy is robbing ships by force of arms. What those shops are doing is copyright infringement.
Bullshit. Meanings of words change over time. Let me quote an explanation for the word cache from Oxford English Dictionary, published at 1976:
Hiding-place for treasure, provisions, ammunition, etc.; what is hidden in a cache.
Surprisingly, it does not speak anything of semiconductor memory chips used in computers as a quickly-accessible intermediate memory meant to speed up actual memory operations, although, as a non-native English speaker that was the only meaning I knew for it until recently.
There sure are still pirates on open seas, too (at least Caribbean, Red Sea and South China Sea are quite likely places to get attacked, I think), but the word piracy has simply got another meaning, which means infringing of copyrights and/or trademarks - there are, for example, a loth of pirated clothes out there, too. That its trademark piracy, so it is not just copyright.
It is rather natural that the word "piracy" has came to mean copyright and trademark infringing, because "copyright infringment" probably sounds more like a legal jargon to Joe User.
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
OK, so it isn't a big deal in the world plan of things, but because of this I can't play what I consider to be one of the best games ever - ever again unless I buy it again. Since now Appeal is dead and Infogrames is part of Atari I doubt they will ever re-release it.
"Cache" in the sense of "CPU cache" and "disk cache" is directly derived from the standard OED definition, and indeed, it fills the role in a computer that a cache of provisions filled for, for example, a miner in the Klondike. That meaning of the word cache is still alive and well in modern English, as any (educated, at least) native speaker could tell you. If you dig through a bunch of news articles about the war in Iraq, I am sure you will find it there.
In other words, the meaning hasn't been changed, merely extended to something that is conceptually the same but which did not exist at the time the word was borrowed into English from French.
In the case of using "piracy" to mean "copyright infringement," on the other hand, that is a complete break with the actual meaning, and was made up by RIAA and MPAA. It is not even an evolution; merely something they repeated and repeated until they got the press and politicians repeating it, but that doesn't make it true. Piracy remains the hijacking and robbery of vessels (and sometimes road vehicles; the meaning has been extended that far) by force of arms. And yes, pirates do exist today, in the places you mentioned, among others. I'm pretty sure they aren't copying DVDs.
Your claim that there are pirated clothes is as false as your claim regarding copyright infringement. Pirated CDs, DVDs, clothes, etc., are genuine articles which are stolen by pirates and subsequently resold (I haven't heard that pirates target that sort of thing much, so these are probably very rare, if not non-existent). A knock-off Rolex, on the other hand, is just what you properly named it as: a case of trademark infringement. If they copied the inside as well (not likely), then it would probably also be a case of patent infringement. None of copyright/trademark/patent infringement are acts of piracy. They are acts of infringement. That is the legal definition, and the only one that even RIAA can use in court. The legal system does not define "piracy" as the infringement of copyright, trademark, or patent. As one who hopes to take the bar exam in the future, I certainly hope it never does so and do not expect it will.
Piracy has not "evolved" to mean any kind of infringement. It is just a word stuck onto it by RIAA et al. That is the complete opposite of evolution, and something that is rejected by many people other than myself.
Aye me for one.
Quite disgusting in my opinion to compare someone infringing on copyright with a pirate who rapes, pillages and murders people on the high seas.
Most actual acts of piracy at sea are completely savage affairs with the victims lucky to escape alive.
Obviously this is about the same level as some kid copying a CD instead of paying $4 for it.
I want to add one note to this myself.
There were radio stations referred to as pirate radio in the 1960s and 1970s. It was not, however, their playing of music without paying royalties (I don't know if they did or not, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn the didn't) for which it was called pirate radio. Rather, it was because they were operating without FCC licenses, commonly from just across the Mexican border, and broadcasting into border states such as Texas. A secondary contributor to the "pirate radio" monicker might have been the fact that these stations weren't much interested in the American Top 40 chart. They were playing by their own rules and airing whatever music they liked. Like the pirates who flew the Jolly Roger, they were operating outside the law, flamboyantly, and according to their own rules.
Copyright infringers may be operating outside the law, and in accordance with their own rules of what they consider IP rights, but there's nothing particularly flamboyant or daring about it. They are just too far from even the stretched "pirate radio" definition of "pirate" to be called such.
Generally, when you have words with multiple meanings, the multiple meanings typically reinforce each other (like a drive in football, to drive a car, and to drive a nail). The meanings typically come from someone using an existing word to describe a new action or thing, or because of chance (Sioux Indians and sue as in lawsuit).
In the case of piracy, it's using a loaded word to chance public perception. If planes were instead refered to as flying bombs, and the media constantly kept calling them flying bombs, people's perceptions of planes would be very different.
Piracy applied to copyrights might be an old term, but it's still a very biased term. It would be a very good thing to see the word restored to it's original meaning, so, even if it is in the dictionary, I'm not going to use it. Copyright infringement isn't that great a term either, so why not just call it copying or making copies. That term is not loaded and is descriptive.
BTW, cache is perfectly usable to mean a hidden stash.
If the street price of Windows XP is $99, and just the codecs for Windows Media Player cost $64, does that mean a stripped down version of Windows XP, without the media player would only be $35? Seems like the license for those codecs are quite expensive compared to the cost of XP itself.
Backing up your Disney DVDs so your kids don't destroy them, then playing the backups while the originals are kept under lock and key, is not infringement.
Well, that really depends on where you live. Here in the UK, for example, it most certainly is infringement.
No, I don't suppose that anyone would ever get in trouble for it - but that doesn't make it legal, or make the law right.
It's official. Most of you are morons.