Slashdot Mirror
Turbolinux Licenses Windows Media 9
spike-288 writes "According a press release, Turbolinux is the first major Linux distributor to license and ship a media player capable of streaming Windows Media audio and video. The new product, "Turbolinux 10 F..." is based on Turbolinux 10 Desktop but will also include licensed versions of Macromedia Flash, legal commercial DVD playback (via Cyberlink's PowerDVD player), RealPlayer 8, commercial Kanji fonts and iPod support via gtkpod (including enhanced functionality)." Update: 04/28 02:33 GMT by T : Prostoalex adds "The Windows Media codecs for Linux will be available for download for $64, the complete TurboLinux OS will cost $150 in Japan and the United States."
Will it strip out DRM so we can listen to our own music on our own machines without hassle?
I wonder if this is some evil Genius way to Screw MS & give the linux community WMA & Legit DVD's.
IIRC the terms of the deal are that Turbo pay MS and the other companies for each copy that they SELL ?
While sticking to the GPL they still give the stuff away for free!
Next step mounting those "lasers" on the sharks.
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
Really, the time of DVD on desktop computers for anything other than loading software and (if it's a burner) burning DVDs is gone, gone, gone. Long live the cheapo "hacked by Chinese" DVD player.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Could someone please explain how this adds any functionality that mplayer doesn't already have?
I've never come across a movie that mplayer wasn't able to play.
With this, I can do all Quicktime trailers, Windows Media streams, you name it. Heck, you get the RealPlayer codecs and you can do that too.
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
On second thought, this is not a start. Appears to me more of a media (no pun intended) stunt of sorts. Seriously I honestly can not see a business model on this. Who is going to pay the tag price on this distro just to get these features that you could easily get for free with another distro and an apt-get/urpmi/etc? Hell for that matter I didn't even know TurboLinux was still alive and kicking...hmmm guess the media stunt worked... /shrug
"why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
Why use linux if you are going to include codecs and other propietary software, for 150 bucks? Just buy windows and end your compatibility issues
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
It shows that Microsoft is playing nice with the competition. If TurboLinux has licensed Windows Media codecs, who do you think it licensed them from? Could this mean Microsoft is changing strategy, or does it just mean they have licensed MPlayer and are using the free-to-download codecs?
One thing that bugs me is the phrase "PowerDVD for Linux enables legal playback of DVD movies" - implying that it's illegal to use DeCSS based solutions to do so. Not in my Asian Pacific country it's not. Still, it's on the US site I guess...
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
That would make perfect sense. And having a commerically available player would provide Microsoft valuable ammunition in a legal fight against the mplayer and VLC projects, which use Microsoft's codecs. Maybe this is indeed part of the FUD Microsoft is getting for its investment in SCO.
thanks to Linux's memory protection and I/O abstraction, nothing affects system reliability unless it goes through the kernel ... a few
proprietary apps shouldn't break the increased
reliability that the free software process brings
to the rest of your system. Or what evidence can
you provide against my assertion?
No, no, you have a fair point that I hadn't considered. I agree with you completely - No kernel mods, this should at worst crash the player in question, not the whole system.
I do, though, have to wonder if (at least) WMP9 support requires a (binary-only, of course) kernel module to enforce its DRM... If so, my earlier comment on stability would still apply. If not, will this allow playback of protected content, or have they glossed over that small omission from full compatibility?
If this was a Windows article about some Linux software running for Windows, and you had made a sarcastic comment about bringing the instability of Linux to Windows, you'd have been modded down as Flamebait within the first five minutes.
Free download was never a GPL requirement to begin with. Legend has it that RMS used to sell Emacs at $150 per tape, you can currently pay $345 for a pair of CDs full of GPL source code from the FSF.
If you are really interested, I suggest you read the GPL. To speed things up, Sections 2 and 3 answer your question (note, 2b "no charge for the license" doesn't preclude charging for the download, the CD, or whatever method of giving the person the software you care to do, it's the license that is Free, not the media).
That, and as a prior poster indicated, the Media Player stuff isn't GPL'ed by a long shot.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
The spyware issue is a misunderstanding of the workings of our player that we fixed years ago. RealPlayer was not and is not spyware. The term implies that information about what an individual is doing is being recorded somewhere and correlated to personal information. This was not and is not happening. Way back in 1999 when this CD-ROM lookup database charge first arose, we changed how the RealPlayer communicated with the server (which as a client it has to do) in order to make it crystal clear that we were not recording any information that could track an individual. Today, there are virtually no background communications other than those chosen by the user when they install the player. Check out the new Windows RealPlayer to see the new install process yourself. Obviously our Linux Player is open source and not an issue. We heard the feedback and we think most will be pleased. Kevin Foreman GM, Helix RealNetworks, Inc.
Kevin Foreman
The real problem with DVD software is, when you buy a DVD drive, you generally get a free[gratis] copy of a DVD player. In my case it was Cyberlink PowerDVD. So Mac users obviously aren't the only ones getting the free stuff.
Now, this is all well and good, but if you're a Linux user like me, you can't use the copy of PowerDVD you got given. So you have a legally-obtained OS, a legally-obtained DVD drive, a legally-obtained piece of DVD software, and a legally-obtained DVD, but you still need to use libdvdcss or an equivalent in order to play the DVD.
I figure if Cyberlink or someone started selling Mplayer and/or Xine codecs (it would need to support both to be fair), and started giving those away with DVD drives, then people wouldn't even need to use libdvdcss (but of course we still would, because it's free[libre] and it's the whole principle of the thing which really matters.)
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
I really like the idea of getting a professional desktop linux OS, that runs on x86 hardware. I really like Mac OS X, and would buy it instantly if it ran on x86 hardware. Hopefully this would be similar.
I have been tied to win2k for 3 years now because of it's excellent japanese language support. If turbolinux can match (or beat) that, I would gladly switch.
Currently, the Media 9 codecs have probably the best licensing of any complete advanced codec out there. They are an open standard, sumbitted to and accepted by STMPE meaning it can't be changed with out STMPE's approval (and those changes being made public). This is the same as MPEG-2 or MPEG-4. The difference is in the cost, the media 9 codecs cost a good bit less to license than either MPEG-2 or MPEG-4.
That's something a lot of people forget about beloved projects like LAME and Xvid. The projects themselves are probably legal, protected as academic works since they are source only. That does not mean you may legally use them. The formats they encode are open standards, but ones that are licensed. What's more, MPEG-4 has a content use fee, you have to pay $0.04 per 2 hours of content.
Now for audio, the solution is simple at this point: Vorbis. It is available for use free of charge. However their video codec isn't yet complete. Well all the other formats are either proprietary, or open but licensed. Even MP3 decoders need a license. All those free MP3 decoder projects that haven't paid it ($60,000 one time fee I believe) are technically illegal to use.
In practise the MPEG group and companies like Microsoft have more or less ignored people that use their standards without a license when not for profit, however that doesn't make it legal.
So until there is a free video standard, you either need to choose a quite old standard (MPEG-1 might be free of licenseing but I am not sure), pay a license fee, or you'll be infringing. That is true if you use MPEG-4 or WM-9. Main difference is WM-9 is cheaper.
Now before you shoot back about MS locking people in, read my post again carefully. WM-9 is no longer proprietary. They submitted it to SMPTE as an open standard. What this means is that anyone can implement WM-9 for a standard licensing fee (called a reasonable and non-discriminitory license, or RAND license). It also means they can't make any future changes to break compatibility since any change has to be submitted to SMPTE and if accepted will be made available to all who licensed the format.
This is the exact same way that MPEG-4 works.
Are you serious or have used Xine?
Under FreeBSD4.9 it constant crashes, can not play half the video formats, and it very choppy. I get signal 6 and signal 11 errors galore and core dumps.
In WIndows I just point and click. Yes, Unix is behind in some things and not ahead in everything.
First it was the gui, now its media.
http://saveie6.com/
I've been buying MS products at my university for years. They have all been full, working, non-upgrade versions. I probably am paying for them out of my tuition...but I have no choice in that. They're also spending $12 million on a "student wellness center" this year...i don't get to take my share of that and spend it on a gym membership instead, do i?
For a college student on a budget, those cheap MS offers can be a godsend. Linux works great for me, but I'm a programmer. Its far superior for virtually everything I have to do for school. I'm sure an English major feels differently...and loves the $15 Windows they can get, even if its got no manual, or support. and that $10 Office is important when they are using Word in every class.
Hasn't it been proven enough times that Linux is only more cost effective than Windows when its support cost(i mean cost in time as well as money) is less than for Windows? Most college students don't have the time to spend learning a whole new OS when the one they've got works fine. For CompSci majors, Linux is essential. For everyone else...I don't blame them for wanting their Windows. It is going to cost them a great deal more to try to use Linux. And that goes for anyone else isn't a computer guru, or have easy access to one.
I think TurboLinux DOES have a good idea here as well. Eventually, if Linux has OpenOffice, and can play WM, and all the other things Windows does, along with being more stable, and not inflicting DRM on you, Linux may be able to make some serious inroads into the desktop market. I can say without a doubt that if they managed to build Windows so that you absolutely could not burn protected files(which they are attempting), then a LOT of college students would be switching to Linux overnight :)
once you go slack, you never go back
You waste your time for nothing man...
See, they try to SELL WMEDIA codecs for $64, you have to PAY for Linux which CAN run Wmedia, they still bitch/whine about Realplayer ON LINUX as SPYWARE for gods sake!
I still wonder if Real/Helix is a budhist or something still serving to that AWFUL community for free! Patience you know.
This doesn't really matter you know, especially with circumstances like realplayer using >50% cpu for a realmedia file in fullscreen while mplayer using 5%. Mplayer is simply superior technology and that's about it.
we discovered a new way to think.
One is supposed to file a PATENT, and publicize the exact details and mechanization one's work, in order to receive the protection promised by the government in exchange for the idea becoming public domain in what.. 17 years or so?
The alternative is a "trade secret"... apparently not protected by patent. But possibly protected by copyright.
Ok, copyright. Some photographer takes a picture of the Grand Canyon. He has his copyright to his proofs. I supposedly can not grab one of his photos and redistribute it. But, apparently, what I CAN do is go to the exact spot he shot his shot from, set up my camera, and take one too.
Ok, So, I can not use the code I stripped from their program. Fair enough. So I go to the exact same spot and type the instructions I need into my machine manually if need be. Now, this one, like the film in my camera, has been personally authored by ME.
I am having a hard time thinking along the lines that someone has patent protection for a trade secret. And if he has copyright, I grant its gonna be hard as hell to tell by looking at a sequence of ones and zeroes if they are the exact same one's and zeroes he or I typed in. Just as it may be hard as hell by looking at the proofs just who took the photo of the Grand Canyon.
I note drug manufacturers have to explain exactly what it is they have and the exact structure of it in order to have that structure protected by patent law. And when the patent runs out, competitors are free to begin production. Its why some pills are hundred dollars per pill, and why I buy bottles of 200 ea. aspirin pills at the "dollar deals" store for a buck.
I am sure looking forward to the day when the word "standard" means a public-domain description of something which the public has agreed to adhere to. If its a "standard", then by definition, it would be public domain and no-one in the government would protect anyone's exclusive claim to license it. Imagine how our industrial revolution would have been hindered if companies could not as much as make their screws compatible with someone else's nuts? Or light bulbs that would run on standard voltages and have standard basing? All this legal snarling that Congress is creating is making it damn near impossible to make interoperative stuff.
( I wonder why photographers call picture a "proof"... maybe they were trying to prove they took a picture? Yes! I did put film in the camera! Here's Proof! )
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
If its opensource which it is, it will be possible to make it use ffmpeg, or even port MPlayer's codec loader. So yeah, in that sense I'd say its a waste of time becuase I would rather just keep using MPlayer I think.
It'll be a cold day in hell before I pay for codecs that I don't even get the source for.
I'm not sure I understood what your point was though. Are you talking about Real/Helix, or this TurboLinux shyte?
Pirates of Penzance - Gilbert & Sullivan 1879 So, I overturn your last statement. Though I couldn't comment on the legal definition, I think you're correct.
I'll second that. I've used Xine on (Mandrake|SuSE|RedHat) Linux since my K6-500 days, because it was smoothest and fastest on my machine at the time. I still use it on my XP-2600 today. Only found one DVD it couldn't play (Ecks vs Severn, IIRC) and that bug's been fixed now too, I think.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Turbolinux is a smart company; they see a need for X in their environment, they provide X. There are so many hacked up versions of kana/kanji libraries for unices out there its rediculous, and not all of them are equally well supported. Conversely, windows has a fairly idiot proof way to gather and display any of the major asian character sets. With Turbolinux putting commercial viability into the linux character sets for asian doublebyte characters, suddenly it becomes more idiot friendly. No longer must you build or collect 9 different character sets/locales just to run rxvt.cjk. It comes standardized! Your grandmother can finally send an email via Kmail or Sylpheed without worrying how to input text! This is a major victory for linux in the asian environment, along the lines of WOW linux for Korea. Add to this linux versions of well known, well branded products supported in a commercial manner (wmp, wma, flash, powerlink), and irrespective of what the heathens of slashdot may want to moderate, suddenly you have a linux distribution thats no-nonsense appropriate for its locality. It has to grow up eventually, and while some of you may feel that the commercial ties to other dubious companies are sketchy and not exactly well liked, this is definitely a step in the right direction for wide market adoption in Japan.
Anyway, I mentioned Gilbert and Sullivan because I heard a program about them on Radio 4 one time, and they mentioned that the people guilty of copyright infringement were pirates. Sorry the links and quote failed to mention that, I was in a rush.
Here is a link about the etymology and various definitions of piracy, freebooting etc. from 1250 to 1988. Quote from the 1988 etymological dictionary: The term pirate/piracy HAS evolved over time, you are wrong, though I wish I'd taken more time to support my argument with evidence earlier.
So...it was about 200 years before Gilbert & Sullivan that it was first used that way...pretty cool.
I think that this association is as bad as the next guy, but I don't think the RIAA invented it
I have no problems playing windows formats on my linux boxen, between mplayer and zine, I have access to everything. I used to like Turbo, back around 3.6 etc. they had some nice utilities and it always worked. Now they have Sympathy For the Devil. (cue the Rolling Stones) "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste... etc."
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
the codec itself could just look at the file and determine if the player is authorized to use its DRM.
But what if the recording's restrictions-management data contains the instruction "must not be played with cleartext digital outputs such as /dev/dsp redirected to a file"? Only a kernel module can provide such attestation.