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Microsoft Games Boss Promises Higher Quality, Fewer Games

Thanks to the San Jose Mercury News for its article discussing Microsoft Game Studios' new general manager Shane Kim's attitude to development, as the piece notes: "Some of Kim's first acts have been to ax or delay several projects. Since the fall, Microsoft has scaled back its staff of internal game developers from 1,200 employees to about 1,000." But it's argued: "Because there are now so many others making games for the Xbox, Microsoft needs to make fewer titles, Kim said... This shift toward a conservative investing style mirrors the larger shift within the video game industry, where development budgets and marketing costs are reaching Hollywood proportions."

51 comments

  1. Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by linzeal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They may merely assimilate a good code shop here and there, but they have good taste. Oh if I could only have the hours back wasted on the "Age of" series, sigh. Maybe than I would have a girl, oh well back to my game of star wars galaxies.

    1. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by LeoDV · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft make some awesome products until they are in a monopoly position. DOS was a fine OS, and so was Windows 3.*, same with Word up to 6.0, IE up to 5... They have lots of $$$ and they know how to use it. When they go after a market they make the best products, that is until they've got it locked, at which point it doesn't matter and they slack off : just look at how they stopped development on the bug-ridden, outdated (popup blocking, tabbed browsing anyone?) IE. But on the other hand, since QuickTime and Winamp have the media market, WMP 9 is a really cool piece of software.

      It's the same with games (and the console, by the way). Since it's a highly competitive market, they'll know to get the skilled people to work for them, make some really good titles. AoE was pretty cool for a while, there were the Mechwarrior series and the Close Combats... Microsoft are great when it comes to games.

    2. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by polyp2000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Microsoft make some awesome products until they are in a monopoly position.

      So how come they are having so much trouble with the X-Box then? If what you are saying is true, then as they are struggling with Xbox at the moment (and not holding the monopoly), surely there should be lots of great games. Instead we see mainly PC ports and a few average multi-plaform console ports.With the noticable acception of Halo and the other launch titles.

      Since they are not in a monopoly in the console market (thank god) your comments would suggest that their games should be excellent. As this article suggests though, this isnt the case( why else would they be making promises?). Any how as the old saying goes. If at first you dont succeed, try, try again.

      When they go after a market they make the best products, that is until they've got it locked, at which point it doesn't matter and they slack off :

      Just imagine, what that statement means for the future if Microsoft manage to get a hold of the console market? I personally think I'll lose interest in the whole idea of console gaming if this happens. Console gaming should be a hotbed of innovation. The last thing we want is anyone slacking off.

      nick ...

      --
      Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
    3. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by TechniMyoko · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Where'd you get your information? They aren't having trouble with the XBOX considering its outselling GameCube. There are tons of XBOX games that I like, moreso than GameCube has (People are complaining about the lack of Cube games) Their games are excellent. But every game (Except Zelda 3) can be better. As for slacking off, look towards the purple cube of non-onlinishness you troll

    4. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by obeythefist · · Score: 1

      Hmm... I don't know about that Windows 3.*
      It was good for it's time, but it was an awful product compared to what we have today.

      One upside was that it didn't have a web browser bundled with it, but then it was really just a shell for DOS anyway.

      Back then, given the choice, I would have chosen a Mac. And I hate macs.

      --
      I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
    5. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by edwdig · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're the one trolling. The GameCube is outselling the Xbox worldwide by a significant margin. In the US, the Xbox is slightly ahead, but the GameCube has been closing the gap since the cut to $99 last fall.

    6. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by edwdig · · Score: 2

      Windows 3.x was always horrible. Compare it to other things of the time - OS/2, GEOS, GEM, Mac. It had the worst of both stability and usability. It won because of the monopoly position DOS had, and some illegal product tying.

      You're forgetting that IE before 4 was a terrible product. IE 3 couldn't render lots of common sites without problems.

    7. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by bigman2003 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I'm using a version of IE with pop up blocking and tabbed browsing. It's from XP Service Pack 2. Microsoft did not STOP development on IE. The world at large was saying 'we don't like having updates pushed at us every week' so they slowed it down.

      Microsoft is trying to keep the updates down, so they are going to roll out a ton of new features in Service Pack 2. It's not just promises, you can go get it yourself, right now.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    8. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by cgenman · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I'm using a version of IE with pop up blocking and tabbed browsing. It's from XP Service Pack 2. Microsoft did not STOP development on IE. The world at large was saying 'we don't like having updates pushed at us every week' so they slowed it down.

      Wow. Pop-up blocking and tabbed browsing? State of the art, for 1999. What about inline searches, mousegestures, style sheet switching, or even a built-in search bar? Does it even display PNG's properly yet?

      By reducing the number of updates you're supposed to instead release the same amount of stuff, just in larger updates. I.E. is so pathetically far behind the browser development curve that it is only now catching up to where it's competitors were when it was last updated about four years ago. It's indefensible that a software company that still has roughly 100% profit margins would allow a key component of it's architecture to fall so badly behind. The only thing they have added since the days of actual competition is CSS, and that they had to be dragged into kicking and screaming.

      You'll excuse me if I sound a little jaded, but many of their "ton of new features" are things that should easily have been there years ago, if they had bothered to care.

    9. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by TechniMyoko · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      none of the features you bitched about seem desirable. as for a built in search bar, its had it for ages. When you type into the url bar, it pops up Search For 'text' if its not already a url. And what do you mean by IE catching up? It seems like all the other browsers have been catching up to IE since they can barely render pages made for IE

    10. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by TechniMyoko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Cube is ONLY outselling in japan, and last time I checked, the majority of /.ers are not in japan. In the US it is slightly ahead (as you admittided), which therefor it outsold Cube. Japan isnt an accurate representation considering most japanese have admitted they dont buy xbox just cause its american and big.

    11. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by lucas+teh+geek · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      It seems like all the other browsers have been catching up to IE since they can barely render pages made for IE
      A troll if ever i saw one. IE fails to render w3c compliant html (ie. REAL html). a page "made for IE" is a page made with broken html. if its broken html format isnt documented, how do you expect it to be supported? its like complaining about OO.org not supporting .doc 100%

      --
      TIAEAE!
    12. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by edwdig · · Score: 2, Informative

      Japan is the 2nd largest market for games. It's not something you can just talking aside when talking about console sales. Especially not in this situation. The Xbox has a slim sales lead over the Cube in the US and Europe, but is hugely behind in Japan. Perhaps if the Xbox had a huge lead in the regions its ahead ignoring Japan would be interesting. But right now, ignoring Japan is just tossing aside the numbers you don't like to make your side look better.

      Tossing aside Japan can really change the outlook of consoles. The N64 was only outsold by the PS1 3:2 in the US, and that's largely because the last year or two of the N64's life had a large reduction in the number of games available. But in Japan, the PS1 outsold the N64 somewhere around 10:1, which had a huge effect on the worldwide numbers, and is where all talk of the N64 not doing well talk comes from.

      The Japanese aren't buying the Xbox not because the system is American, but rather because the games are all catered to American tastes. Selling NFL Gameday with all English text & packaging in Japan isn't going to sell. Nor will selling lots of First Person Shooters.

    13. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by orim · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Win3.1 was just amazing. I just loved how a single application would bring the entire OS down. And then the daily reboots...
      And DOS - the best half-assed single user shell I've ever used; the thing I particularly enjoyed was freeing up the 640K memory to play games.
      Ugh.

      --
      "If you could only see what I've seen with your eyes..." - Roy Batty
    14. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by leland242 · · Score: 1

      There was an interesting article on Gamespy recently about gaming in Japan. In fact, they have a word to describe Western products and from what I recall, it doesn't connotate high quality. One (of the main) reason(s) the XBox has done so poorly in Japan is because of this cultural factor.

    15. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by Phil+Wilkins · · Score: 1

      > WMP 9 is a really cool piece of software.

      Not it's not, it's a piece of shit with an appalling user interface.

    16. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      If what you are saying is true, then as they are struggling with Xbox at the moment (and not holding the monopoly), surely there should be lots of great games.

      Project Gotham Series
      Amped Series
      Crimson Skies
      Mechassault
      Top Spin
      Links
      Halo
      Grabbed by the Ghoulies (I liked it - so did Famitsu, which gave it a 31!)

      Seems like a pretty good list to me. Many of them are absolutely huge sellers, too.

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
    17. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and there's no possible way that some of us might happen to agree with what the Japanese take for granted, right? I mean, they must all be idiots. Yes, we (as is all of us Americans) should all agree to that, simply to sooth the pain from our shared inferiority complex.

      I'm an American, but I've always preferred Japanese-style games from Japan, because they are almost always of higher production quality, are more enjoyable, are more aesthetically pleasing, and are less bug-ridden. The same can be said of most consumer electronics produced in Japan as opposed to outside it. IMHO, EOS.

      In other words, I don't eat Mexican candy, but that doesn't mean that it's an American cultural factor to despise Mexican candy makers in support of the American candy industry. To me, American candy is just more readily available and tastes better. What incentive do I have to like something that wasn't made for me, hint hint?

    18. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by bigman2003 · · Score: 1

      Maybe you don't like Mexican candy because it is full of lead.

      I would disagree that Japanes games 'are almost always of higher production quality, are more enjoyable, are more aesthetically pleasing...' etc. You state these things as fact, when in reality they are only your opinion. I personally do not agree at all. One of the few Japanese games I do like, is Dance Dance Revolution. (And even then, there is some Hawaiian tie-in that I can't figure out)

      But this is not a xenophobic choice...I like American games, but some of my favories are actually Canadian, or French.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    19. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      While they haven't unseated Sony as the market leader (and Nintendo will probably always have the niche of younger oriented games). The X-Box certainly exceeded most expectations for unit sales and installed base. They don't have a library of exclusive games yet, but third party developers are beginning to take a second look at them. This is a huge improvement from their introduction when the XBox was expected to bomb miserably. Their success in online gaming is a huge part of the second looks from developers. Personally, I'm looking forward to Jade Empire, and have bought several games for my own box.
      Not bad for the first successful limited PC. Compare this to Larry's NIC, the PC JR, Audrey, WebTV, and the other failed limited use PCs. This was the test unit, the next will establish the platform, and the third version is highly likely to replace the PC as the main development platform (expect a home version of software assurance.
      Console gaming finally caught the PC (at least mainstream-non gamer PCs) and became the big market for cutting edge games in the current cycle. A big result of this is the transition from an industry that could be changed by a few folk working out of a garage to a business that reqires significant investmetn (and as a result much lower risk of failure than gaming has historically been).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    20. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You state these things as fact...

      All statements of preference infer opinion as opposed to fact. The basis of my opinion is the truth to me. But I can honestly say that I haven't encountered (played) more examples to the contrary than examples that support the conclusion - and my base of experience is higher than the norm, excepting PC gamers (since I don't play or enjoy most PC games of any origin). I only speak about what I know, and that's what I know.

      The Hawaiian tie-in with DDR that you can't figure out is probably just popularity. Asian-American kids, and therefore lots of kids in Hawaii, generally love the game. Even non-Asian-Americans have at least heard about it.

      But this is not a xenophobic choice...I like American games, but some of my favories are actually Canadian, or French.

      And there you have it. You support my point by exemplifying it. Leland used the term "cultural factor" to describe the phenomenon of poor Xbox sales in Japan. My claim is that there are underlying reasons other than xenophobia/cultural protectionism that explain this situation - reasons with which I agree (as a matter of opinion, to underline the point).

    21. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so wait, you are only now realizing that technimyoko is a troll? where've you been?

    22. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes most of those are launch titles are they not?

    23. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by LeoDV · · Score: 1

      Good points.

      First of all, they may not be the leaders (yet), but the X-Box did a lot better than anyone would have given them credit for a few years ago. Yes there are lots of PC games but there are also good original titles, and Live works really well. I think the main reason why they haven't cornered the market is because they don't understand it (sometimes just throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it), and because Sony are pretty much unbeatable -- no matter how much money you throw, Sony are big enough to fire back with the big guns, and the installed base of the PS/PS2 is just too big. In terms of installed base (which is what they were going for from the start, since they stated they would lose billions and didn't mind), the X-Box is a success.

      " your comments would suggest that their games should be excellent. As this article suggests though, this isnt the case( why else would they be making promises?)"

      They didn't say "We'll make good games, promise!", they said that they would focus on quality, try to push their good game to game published ratio to 1. They have always been making good games for as long as I remember.

      " Just imagine, what that statement means for the future if Microsoft manage to get a hold of the console market? I personally think I'll lose interest in the whole idea of console gaming if this happens. Console gaming should be a hotbed of innovation. The last thing we want is anyone slacking off."

      Obviously it would be a really bad thing if Microsoft became a monopoly in the console market, but then again consoles are a platform. Just like Windows being a bad OS doesn't stop people making great games for it, it would be the same with the Monopobox or whatever Microsoft will call their überconsole.

    24. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent games by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

      Ummm, no, most of them are actually not launch titles, unless you have a very bizarre definition of "launch".

      Halo is the only technical launch game, though PGR1 and Amped 1 were also launch games. But I was talking more about the (easily superior) sequels. Discrediting them as launch titles would be like saying the Super Mario Brothers series was a launch NES title...

      --
      There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  2. Cost vs. Methods by October · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Personally I think it's a little worrying that budgets for games have spiralled up so quickly to approach the level of hollywood blockbusters, while the process of making games is still somewhere in the early 1900s, by hollywood standards. I'm glad to see studios favoring quality over quantity, but I'll be happier when the processes mature to similarly modern levels. Once we cut out the majority of wasted work, schedule overruns, and plain old bad planning I think we'll start seeing what games can really do.

  3. Fewer first-party titles? Higher quality games? by wheresdrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Taking a page from Nintendo's book?

    1. Re:Fewer first-party titles? Higher quality games? by nifboy · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was wondering how they could actually have *fewer* games, myself.

  4. Microsoft Games Boss by vjmurphy · · Score: 4, Funny

    When I read the first part of the headline, I thought this was going to be an information on how to beat the Microsoft Games Boss. Something like:

    * Press X-X-Y while pressing both triggers
    * Jump up
    * File antitrust lawsuits
    * Fire wave-motion gun
    * Go to Court

    --
    Vincent J. Murphy
    Spandex Justice
  5. Caught red handed by wizarddc · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    So are they basically admitting to flooding the market with crap games to offer consumers a "choice" when buying games? Were they padding their number of titles with junk just to make XBox look like a viable console next to the PS2? And now that they have a decen number of third party developers producing horrible games, they don't need to anymore? I see, gotcha. One hundred percent clear, now.

    --
    Th
    1. Re:Caught red handed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      go back to your cave, troll

  6. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent stuff by MachDelta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And its not even only their software. Just look at the perhiphrials market (keyboards, joysticks, wheels, etc), where Microsoft actually makes some competetive products. I'm primarilly a Logitech man myself, but my Microsoft sidewinder wheel is actually a pretty good piece of hardware (even if the software bundled with it sucks :P)

  7. High Quality != High Budget by codexus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sure they are going to invest more money in the games and with the new capabilities of the graphics cards we are going to see some amazing graphics.

    But they are going to be even less willing to take the risk to innovate than before. A high-quality game isn't just last year's game with prettier graphics.

    --
    True warriors use the Klingon Google
  8. Pajitnov by arhar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What I'm wondering is... does Alexei Pajitnov (the inventor of Tetris, for both of you who didn't know that) still work for Microsoft games division? It's kind of sad how he didn't make anything of notice since then ...

    1. Re:Pajitnov by jchenx · · Score: 1

      He still works at MGS. He now works in the MSN Games by Zone.com group. The last two games he helped created were Hexic and Mozaki Blocks, both puzzle games like Tetris. Neither are enormously popular, but it's hard to match what happened with Tetris.

      --
      -- jchenx
  9. Both of them are fighting for third place anyway. by Thag · · Score: 1

    After the PS2 and the GBA.

    And who cares about third place vs. fourth?

    Jon Acheson

    --
    All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
  10. OFFTOPIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Stop the offtopic "Microsoft is evil" bullshit you homos. We are talking about GAMES, and Microsoft games are actually pretty decent. Like age of empires, halo, flight simulator and midtown madness.

    1. Re:OFFTOPIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because if they make some people happy, everyone else are idiots for recognizing and understanding the negative nature of their practices (and the effects thereof).

      "Homo." Great stuff there, slugger. You keep at it.

  11. Re:Final Fantasy 7 by DeadScreenSky · · Score: 1

    Actually, Japan is the third biggest videogame market, not second. It has really been shrinking the past few years. Maybe you can't really ignore it now, but there is plenty of evidence that you can safely do that for the next console generation. The Japanese just aren't buying many games anymore, period.

    --
    There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon
  12. Final Fantasy 7? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is the title of your post "Final Fantasy 7?" Did you have another point to make before posting this one....?

    Besides, there is no evidence that proves that Microsoft will WANT to ignore Japan. If anything, they are going to attempt to fix their fuck-ups in PURSUIT of Japan in the next generation. If California somehow bought less games this year than last, do you think MS would pull their CA accounts?

    It's been said time and again, but the problem in Japan regarding the games indstry is that of economy. When Japanese buying power goes up, the industry (as with other industries that are currently seeing a slump in Japan) will likely see a resurgence. Even the used games buyers eventually get bored and go out and buy something. I have a respectable collection, but I buy new stuff too.

  13. Microsoft shrinks while EA grows? by Dustin_00 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    EA just announced they are trying to double in size every 5 years while Microsoft is cutting back on game dev? What does Mr. Kim have to say about EA's direction? So Microsoft is saying that it wants to produce quality games -- so it wants to only create million-selling items? Yet by cutting out all its sports titles they have left the field to be owned by EA in an areana where quality versions guarantee return of the faithful on an annual basis. The MMORPG market is flooded -- so killing Mythica kind of made sense. Except for the fact that then leaves them holding AC which has to compete with the next generation from other companies. Mythica would have been the "quality" replacement they're claiming they want to produce. Very sad. All this just seams to point to the reality that Microsoft doesn't have the stomach for a protracted building of a franchise that has more potential than Gate's Dreamworks (see http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,61358,00.ht ml). If Microsoft is truely about producing quality games, then it must realize that it could easilly cut down on marketing budget since allowing Mods, level editors, and online play all build community and word of mouth that buys you far better sales than an add in any Nothing-Gets-Less-Than-4-Out-Of-5-Stars game "review" magazine. Sigh.

    1. Re:Microsoft shrinks while EA grows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, Microsoft Games sales(consoles and games) actually grew faster than EA in the last quarter, and will grow faster than EA in this very quarter as well.
      XBOX sales last quarter grew at 30% , while EA grew revenues at just 19% (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/i ndex.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20040429005806 &newsLang=en), so it doesn't exactly look like EA is cleaning Microsoft's clock now, does it?

      EA is going to double sales in 5 years, I am gonna bet you Microsoft doubles XBOX revenues in 3 years. Already the XBOX has overtaken PS2 to become the biggest selling games console in not only North America, but in Australia and even in Singapore as well (http://asia.cnet.com/newstech/personaltech/0,3900 1147,39177962,00.htm)

  14. Re:Microsoft makes some pretty decent stuff by nelsonal · · Score: 1

    I've been very happy with IBM's perhiphrials as well. MS brands some excellent stuff, but all of the majors (except maybe Logitech) outsource everything. IBM sold most of these business to Lexmark (who was licensed the brand for a certain period) but Lexmark focused on printers in the late 90s and sold or stopped work on the few products they were still making at that point. Anything from IBM is from one of the big asian ODMs, with IBM's logo slapped on the box.

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  15. And by cubicledrone · · Score: 0

    where development budgets and marketing costs are reaching Hollywood proportions

    and so is quality.

    --
    Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
  16. ORIGINAL post: Game quality, innovation & budg by securitas · · Score: 1


    The fact that game production costs are now approaching Hollywood proportions isn't really news to anyone who follows the industry. What is news and what is different here is how Shane Kim approaches game investment and development, and how that directly affects quality and innovation in games.

    Laying off 200 (presumably) talented game developers and alienating some of those that remain seems counterintuitive to producing high-quality games, but on paper I'm sure it looks like a good financial move for a Microsoft division that is hemorrhaging cash like there is no tomorrow.

    Here's the original post, highlighting comments from Blue Fang's president that expresses some concerns.

    Microsoft Game Studios' New GM Shane Kim Speaks

    Mercury News' Dean Takahashi profiles and interviews Shane Kim, Microsoft Game Studios' new General Manager. Among his first acts as GM, Kim killed Microsoft's entire XSN sports line and cut the number of developers from 1200 to 1000, leaving some developers 'privately grumbling that Microsoft has lost its way.' Kim has taken a more conservative, business-oriented approach than predecessor Ed Fries, funding sequels to games like Project Gotham Racing and Halo (Xbox) saying, 'This is about us growing up ... At the end of the day we'll have more quality.' But others like Blue Fang's Hank Howie have reservations: 'I wonder how innovative new ideas are going to get funded if everyone is being cautious and funding sequels.' Mirror at Mercury News.

  17. Hollywood? by plagioclase · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure Hollywood is the best place to look for a standard of well thought through 'quality' projects. Don't believe me? Take a look at the "major" releases that came out this week. I'm thinking there are some 'quantity' films there.

    Don't let the flash and glamour of tinsel town fool you, games are pretty much at the level of movies right now. For every Lord of the Rings there's a Tony Hawk, and at the same time, for every Fugitive Hunter, there's a Battlefield Earth.

    --
    Yeah, I have a webcomic...
  18. "Higher quality, fewer games" by Black+Hitler · · Score: 1

    Of course. That's why they've axed Psychonauts and green-lighted Blinx 2, right? Idiots.