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RIAA Forgets to Make Royalty Payments

theodp writes "NY Attorney General Eliot Spitzer agreed with the RIAA on one point - artists WERE being deprived of money that was rightfully theirs. But Spitzer managed to find $50 million for performers without shaking down grandmothers. Spitzer's culprits? A Who's Who of the nation's top recording companies - members of the RIAA - who failed to maintain contact with artists and stopped making required royalty payments."

36 of 341 comments (clear)

  1. Motives by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Instead of coming right out and bashing the RIAA, (yes, that needs doing as well), I have a different question...

    From the Article ( bold emphasis added):

    "The companies have also agreed to comply with New York State's Abandoned Property Law, which requires that if an artist or his or her family cannot be found, unclaimed royalties be "escheated" or turned over to the state. The state then holds these monies until a claim is made."

    While this will be great for a lot of artists I question the motive. I doubt that Eliot Spitzer is doing this for artists. I'm sure New York state will benefit from the interest revenue from "hold[ing] these monies. It won't hurt his career to have his name in the paper either.

    Of course, I didn't bother to look up his record. Maybe he really is just doing his job, protecting the citizens of New York State.

    --
    Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
    1. Re:Motives by spaeschke · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Spitzer's been a great watchdog for US citizens. All of those crackdowns on securities violators? Primarily coming out of Spitzer's office. Of course, it also doesn't hurt his political career, but hey, the guy's been doing a bang up job as NY DA.

    2. Re:Motives by davidu · · Score: 5, Interesting


      Spitzer has been doing an AWESOME job.

      I don't think it's any secret that he has political aspirations -- even if you ask him -- but that doesn't change the fact that he has been going after the wall street crooks WAY harder than the feds have. He has been nailing people left and right and sticking them for all he can.

      We need more people like Spitzer around to go after the bullshit without being crazy like Ashcroft.

      -davidu

      --

      # Hack the planet, it's important.
    3. Re:Motives by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Good point. See, I knew my question would get some good ol' RIAA bashing in.

      So, how does New York prove which money is theirs to hold? New York holding money would do little good for someone who's living in Alaska or Hawii.

      --
      Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
    4. Re:Motives by Belisarivs · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I remember reading an article pondering the next New York governors race. It was decided that Spitzer would be the best Democratic candidate, as his poll numbers were around 60% . . . among Republicans.

      I'm a conservative Republican, and I voted for him last time around.

    5. Re:Motives by tkg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So, how does New York prove which money is theirs to hold?

      Interesting question. I'd think that NY state would have to prove the artist is a resident, which means providing an address, which would mean the artist's location is known, which means the record label can pay the artist his/her royalties, which would mean NY wouldn't get to hold the money. Of course they might only have to show that NY was the artist's last known address.

    6. Re:Motives by Colonel+Angus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Personally, I couldn't give two squirts what his motives are. It's not every day that you actually see someone actively trying to catch crooks. I am sure I am not the only one who is sick of seeing the excessively rich get richer by bending over those who are likely struggling to get by as it is. At current rate we'll soon have two classes... middle class will be relegated to "back in my day" stories.

      So if he's doing this for political gain... great. Go nuts. If he's doing it to get chicks, let'er rip! If he's doing it because the voices in his head said it's the right thing to do then who am I to argue. Let him clean this shit up since no one else who is SUPPOSED to be doing it is.

    7. Re:Motives by Lord_Raptor · · Score: 5, Interesting


      If Kerry wins the Presidential election, I'm thinking that Spitzer has a good chance at being AG for the US.
      Now that would give me a little more confidence in where the country is headed.

    8. Re:Motives by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Maybe it's neither better or worse. That's why I'm asking the question. And... I have my own motives.

      For instance, how does this help the citizens of Tennessee - there are surely a great deal of unclaimed funds to people who live there?

      Perhaps NY is only holding moneys for people who have family in NY or a last known address there, the article wasn't clear.

      Certainly those whom are fans of Spitzer far outnumber his critics, so I have no doubt anymore that he's doing his job - I still have that gut feeling that tells me there's another level to this.

      For my own motive, I occasionally like to FP an on-topic comment/question to an article that, in this case, doesn't start with all of the obvious ways to bash the RIAA.

      --
      Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
    9. Re:Motives by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I highly doubt that these people are hard to find;
      "David Bowie, Dolly Parton, Harry Belafonte, Liza Minnelli, Dave Matthews, Sean Combs and Gloria Estefan"

      Withholding money from Dave Matthews may have been more than an oversight. After-all, he's spoken out more than once about royalty free music for the masses.

      Otherwise I agree that the RIAA is marginally different from the individual publishers it represents.

      --
      Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
    10. Re:Motives by mrsev · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I'm a conservative Republican..." .... move along now sir! There nothing here for you!

      ***disclaimer: you have the right to vote for whoever you want.....democracy...one man one vote....equality...representation...my right to take the piss.***

      But seriously , I am glad that you have voted for the person whom you respect and wish to lead you. I have always disliked the concept of a political party. I think democracy would work much better without them. Then we could spend much more time choosing people to represent us upon their own merits. Then these people could sit down and debate issues on a case by case basis. (Yes I may be an idealist but there is nothing wrong with aiming high.) Instead I see most political debates featuring two entrenched groups. The system is geared too much to the concept that only one side is victorious. Surely they should be trying to find solutions. The current political system is a bad example to our children of how people should behave.

  2. Hmm... by odano · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am as anti-RIAA as the next guy, but this doesn't seem all that bad.

    The RIAA is going out of there way to correct a royalty problem that may/may not have entirely been their fault. And the article makes it seem that it was the idea of an RIAA lawyer.

    Just my 2 cents...

    1. Re:Hmm... by Daemonik · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The RIAA collects fines from people who violate the copyrights of it's membership. All monies collected in this endeavor are kept by the RIAA.

      Their stance that they are fighting to see artists get paid is based on the theory that if they stop copyright violation, everyone will buy legitimate copies of the work and the record company will pay the artists. The RIAA is not actually writing checks out to Metallica, except perhaps for their promotional work.

  3. Any hope of draconian fines? by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Say, fine the RIAA members $100K per non-paying incident, like they were threatening to charge the kiddie downloaders?

    Friggin' corporate pirates should be MADE to pay their proper dues!

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Any hope of draconian fines? by Progman3K · · Score: 5, Interesting

      >Say, fine the RIAA members $100K per non-paying incident, like they were threatening to charge the kiddie downloaders?

      Well, if they're guilty of stealing from artists, like they claim P2P users are, then they should pay the same fines, shouldn't they?

      Oh boy, it would be interesting to watch the RIAA lobby for that!

      --
      I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
  4. Where does the money go? by bigjnsa500 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    If these royalties for artists that they can't find, what happens to the money? Does it go into a general fund or does it go back to RIAA to line their pockets?

    Another question would be WHY the RIAA lost touch with these artists. Was it on purpose or accident?

    --
    This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
  5. Cat and Mouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Forgive my oversimplification of the RIAA (and Anti-RIAA) tactics, but it seems to me like this is such a cat and mouse game. Someone points out problems with the RIAA, the RIAA points out problems with filesharing. One-Up to P2P, One-Up to RIAA. I'm waiting to see if politics, technology and common sense can elicit some sort of resolution to this perpetual nonsense. I won't hold my breath.

  6. I'm sure they're having trouble by u-238 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    coming to terms with the fact that the new-yacht-a-month club is going to have to tone down and make with what they already have.

    A digital robin hood am I, and through my uploading I give to the poor.

  7. Re:Lost track of these artists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    And they couldn't find Regis Philbin!?

    Host of one of the more popular syndicated shows which regularly runs write-in and call-in contests. And they COULDN'T FIND HIM?

    Right.

  8. $50 million in cheated royalties? by Mudcathi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The RIAA has sued what, 3000 people so far? With an average "catch" of $2500 each? If these numbers are correct, that's $7.5 million. Versus $50 million that RIAA cheated their own artists out of!

    --

    "He who throws mud, loses ground." - proverb

  9. Then not only should the RIAA make sure they are by Phil+John · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...paid...they should be paid with interest plus fined/sued for compensation. This is a perfect opportunity to point out that there shouldn't be one rule for consumers and one rule for the conglomerates.

    --
    I am NaN
  10. Re:compared to cd sales decline by Matrix272 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    According to CNN, sales dropped about 7.5% from 2002 levels of 32.2 billion to 2003 sales of 32.0 billion. RIAA blames "rampant piracy" for this.

    I'd love to see a comparison of all the years between 1999 and 2003 for sales decreases, number of releases, average age of the buyer, and the cost of a CD. Then, I'd like to see that cross-referenced with the recession in the economy, including such factors as unemployment rates, average income per household, etc. After you have all that, cross-reference all that with what the RIAA claims it's lost from file sharing. I can almost guarantee you it's nothing even near what they're claiming, and any decrease in sales has been just as drastic as any other major industry in the country.

    --
    "It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." ~ Christian Slater, True Romance
  11. Re:Lost track of these artists? by ExistentialFeline · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This assumes that the artists know they are owed money. If the artists were contacted on a semi-regular basis about payments and the companies occasionally "forgot" about some money it may not be obvious for the artists to ask for the money. IE a check for $2500 could be only half of what they owe but the artist don't know any better since the artist hasn't asked exactly what their debt is; they just know they're owed something.

    Of course as things usually are on /. this is wild speculation.

  12. Why NY? Devil's advocate. by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The article isn't clear, but how does NY know that they should be holding this money... What if I live in Nebraska?

    So, I wake up from a five year coma. I go looking for my royalty checks, and am told that they are being held by the state.

    So, I go down to the Comptroller's office in Lincoln and ask where my money is. They tell me it must be some other state. Well, my brother is in Florida... I'll call there. Nope. Oh, yeah, my mom in Arizona, maybe it's that state. Nope.

    Why would my money be in New York? Why not California where a "marginal" majority of these contracts are signed? It's great that the proceeds from this money will go to benefit the people of New York, but what if I don't live there?

    --
    Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
  13. Re:Agreed to comply? by The+Famous+Brett+Wat · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I didn't know you had to 'agree' with a law before it was applicable to you.

    Sure you do, in New York, at least. Only a little earlier I was reading how the well-known "email marketing mogul", Scott Richter, is "agreeing to abide by a new federal anti-spam law" as a part of a settlement with A.G. Spitzer. Nice to see he's making these naughty people promise to be good in future.

    --
    proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
  14. Uhh, what are you smoking? by gosand · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I don't understand why the government has not seen the RIAA as an orginization that doesn't adhear to the rules that it's set for everyone else.

    Who says they haven't? You are making the assumption that the government believes that the rules apply equally to everyone. If that were the case, then Oprah Winfrey would have been fined or taken off the air for indecency. Microsoft would have been punished under anti-trust laws and for illegally maintaining a monopoly. There are many many many other examples, these are just some of the more high profile ones.

    The rules do not apply equally to everyone.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  15. Re:Abandoned Property? by luwain · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Many artists probably don't know the money is owed to them and no doubt the RIAA doesn't make it easy for artists to keep track of their royalties. Also, many successful artists aren't very educated and don't understand all the "legalese" in their contracts. The RIAA probably depends upon a lot of artists' naivete and/or ignorance. I remember when Tupac Shakur died his mother found out that he was penniless and that somehow all the money that he got were someohow "loans" from the record company. Artists can easily be taken advantage of by the record companies, especially if they directly deal with the company without a lawyer or agent. It's the same kind of game that the IRS plays. Many people who don't use HR Block or have someone knowledgeble do their taxes, file a short form and pay much more in tax than they should. The IRS isn't going to go out of their way to educate these people. The RIAA probably has the same attitude --"...your ignorance is our profit...".Kudos to Spitzer for successfully getting the RIAA to "do the right thing" even though one could easily argue that they did nothing illegal. Hypocrisy is annoying, but it's not illegal :)

  16. An interesting aspect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I gotta say that it sure sounds like Sptizer has been sticking it to THA MAN and has been dealing out the asswhuppin where it needs to go. I am personally in the "anti-corp" camp. Senator Disney, RIAA / MPAA, infinite copyright etc. - screw 'em all! With a flaming telephone pole!

    But you look at the tool that Eliot Sptizer is using to lay all this smack down with and from what I've heard it's totally outta control. The way Sptizer is using it is cool, but what if Spitzer was an asshole? DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!

    http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/May-June-2004 /f eature_thompson_mayjun04.html

  17. Change in My Tactics by endofoctober · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I love music, and used to spend a lot on buying new CDs before this RIAA shakedown started. Stories like this, however, have made me change my ways, and now I buy exactly $0's worth from any label that supports the RIAA.

    It's appalling to think that this is all done defending artists from file sharers when their watchdog is either this clueless or dishonest...with the RIAA, it's hard to tell which.

    Artists might fare better if they could see an alternative to this corporate mire. Perhaps if they understood that consumers would be more supportive of the music if there was some reasonable guarantee that money would actually get to the artist rather than a conglomerate?

    Granted I have no guarantee of that with my current label selections, but I feel better knowing that my cash isn't feeding the anti-piracy machine.

    --
    - Jack
  18. Re:Agreed to comply? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If this law only applies to NY, and is worth $50million, how much unpaid royalties exist that should be directed to the other states?

    NY = 1 state = 50million "lost"

    Other = 49 States = 50 * 49 = 2.45 billion?

    Even if the percentage is lower, this is only the tip of the iceberg.

    Note: I'm not american, but doesn't this sound at least reasonable?

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  19. They're still crooks by UrinalFresh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Canadian wing of the RIAA, the CRIA, convinced our lame government to put a levy on blank CD media. Their argument was that people were using the media to rip CDs and thus the every day musician was getting short changed for his/her hard work. The gov't agreed and the funds collected through this levy were assigned to the CRIA to be redistributed to artists as compensation.

    In reality, the CRIA has only redistributed a microscopic portion of the fund to the artists - the rest has been going right into the CRIA's coffers. How's that for compensation....

    1. Re:They're still crooks by shark72 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not sure where you're getting your facts, but what you've relayed is not correct.

      The funds do not go to the CRIA. They go to the CPCC, the Canadian Private Copying Collective. The CPCC is a non-profit organization, and most importantly, the CPCC is not the CRIA.

      The record companies are among the recipients of the money that the CPCC hands out. As in the US, they get a small portion (15%), with the majority going directly to composers and publishers (66%) and performers (18%). In the case of the composers and performers, it is not given to the CRIA to redistribute to them, as you state. It is given directly to the composers and performers. The CRIA sees none of that money.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
  20. You can't blame the RIAA -- it's easy to forget. by Ride-My-Rocket · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For example, I've forgotten that I need to be bothered with buying overpriced CDs for the past 8 years. Instead, I've been spending my cash on video games, DVDs, live entertainment and socializing with my friends.

    And sometimes I also forget that I don't need to buy a CD in order to determine whether I like the music. P2P has been gracious enough to keep reminding me of this whenever I feel the urge to go to the nearest Virgin Megastore..........

  21. Re:compared to cd sales decline by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 3, Interesting


    Don't forget that many of us have been boycotting them for several years now. That has to hurt as well.


    Not at all. Your missing dollars are added to the "loss of sales due to piracy" column.
  22. Re:compared to cd sales decline by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Interesting


    Since Napster went down, we have all sorts of new filesharing tools to choose from. The bandwidth has changed for the average person also I would guess.


    Fair points. I'll add a couple more things to consider.

    A centralized system like Napster is far more effective than what exists now. When Napster got squashed, it certainly created a market of sorts for all these distributed, decentralized P2P applications. However, that decentralized has an averse affect on the selection and efficiency of the system. Although it is likely that one will still find the latest diva or boyband fairly easy.

    Industry polls show that the number of file traders are decreasing. They claim this is due to "education" efforts. I haven't bothered to bounce those numbers against the estimates for Napster. But it could prove interesting.
  23. Pure As Driven Snow by quarkscat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    NY DA Spitzer is doing a far better job at
    protecting citizen's rights from crooked
    corporations and corporate executives than
    the US DoJ, which appears to be unenthusiastic
    about corporate fraud or monopolistic actions.
    (No big surprise here, huh?)

    A recent interview with Spitzer on the
    "Charlie Rose" program gave me a new level
    of respect for this crusader. He has no
    stated political ambitions (or agenda)
    beyond doing a great job as DA for the
    citizens of NY and the USA.

    I would really like to see him run for
    President: he reminds me (historically)
    of Teddy Roosevelt, a populist AND
    conservative (in it's best definition)!