Thawte Founder Launches Open Source Campaign

An anonymous reader writes "Mark Shuttleworth ^? , lauched a campaign to increase the use of open-source software in South Africa, according to the Sunday Times. The GO-open source campaign is aimed at households and small businesses. Shuttleworth founded Thawte Consulting in 1995 and subsequently sold it to Verisign for $575 Million."

Comments

Interesting

[Dogers]

.. but looks to bre premature to me?

"I want to give it a try" comes up with "send us your name and address and we'll send you a CD!"

How about whats on this CD, a more useful (other than the little thats in the FAQ's) list of links on where to stay/get up to date with your software, etcetc?

Re:Interesting

[anoopa]

Aah how first world of us to think everyone in the world has a fat pipe running into their homes : )

I presume since this is a South Africa specific initiative it makes sense mailing them (the "I want to give it a try" folk) the cds but I agree a download option wouldn't hurt!

Also what does the CD contain, really how can the site be of any value if they won't tell the people who want to try OSS what comes on the CD and how is it useful to the users!?!

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Rumor is that the CD in question is TheOpenCD 1.4.

Re:Interesting

[amber_of_luxor]

Rumor is that the CD in question is TheOpenCD 1.4.

Given the multi-lingual nature of South Africa, an open source cd, created from the software at translate.org.za makes more sense than The Open CD. Two CD's almost makes sense. The Open CD, to expose people to the range of software available, and one with localizations for South Africa.

Amber

Re:Interesting

[HenrikOxUK]

Given the multi-lingual nature of South Africa, an open source cd, created from the software at translate.org.za makes more sense

Yes, that makes sense. How many of the programs on TheOpenCD have been translated by translate.org.za? Just OpenOffice? The next version of the CD-browser will itself be multilingual. We should contact translate.org.za about translating the content of that as well.

Re:Interesting

[3rdWorld]

What you must realise is that this campaign has little to do with OSS people - it is aimed at people who have never heard of OSS and even at people who don't have computers yet. If they can remove MS as the dfault in peoples minds and replace it with OSS then OSS can go a long way. They are also talking to a largely IT illiterate population who will learn quicker by trying than by reading the philosophies of OSS! If you also think that simply giving away CD's is their only tool with an R18m budget then your imagination is severly lacking!

Re:Interesting

[3rdWorld]

The tranlate.org team are going to help this campaign a lot. OpenCD is going to used initially but they will shortly jump to a custom 'Go Open Source' with the latest software each time with as many translations as possible.

Re:Interesting

[Twylite]

The saddest thing about Shuttleworth's Go-Opensource is that is makes no effort to indicate (or show respect for) any Free Software or Open Source foundation, or to acknowledge any of the (many) other South African initiatives that have been promoting OSS over the years.

Although the FAQ provides links to the Free Software Philosophy and the Open Source definition, there are no links to the home pages of gnu.org or opensource.org. In short, this "promotional campaign" doesn't even indicate where you can find authoratative information on what they are promoting.

For a person new to the concept of FLOSS, SourceForge and Freshmeat (the only suggestions for finding Open Source software given in the FAQ) are really bad places to start. They are riddled with poor quality software, and can give a really bad impression. Links to TheOpenCD or another site that lists specific, mature and useful software would be far more valuable.

The are various organisations in South Africa that support Open Source (to varying degrees). Bridges.org has offices in the country, and supports the use of free (as in beer) software of various types, including FLOSS. There are many LUGs around the country, and a wealth of information is available from TLUG in particular.

Ultimately go-opensource provides some pretty layout, but no meat, or even directions to a butchery.

Re:Interesting

[sigaar]

Just for the sake of everybody who live in countried where bandwidth are are cheap and available in large quantities. In South Africa we (finally) have ADSL. Thanks to our general shortage of international bandwith (and the telco's pathetic disinterest in doing anything about it), it performs more like a dual ISDN for international traffic, on a good day. Also, we are limited to 3GB of traffic per month, after wich it performs like a 9600baud modem, on a good day. So, downloading ISO images is difficult for us, and downloading anything from us, is going to be difficult for you. Cheers

Wow...

[Short Circuit]

I haven't seen that everything2 superscript questionmark on Slashdot in a long time.

Why did it go away, anyway?

Re:Wow...

[sketerpot]

In this case, there were actually no writeups in the Mark Shuttleworth node, so I don't think we should have seen the question mark. Oh well.

Re:Wow...

[anthonyclark]

It's not so much that everything2 went it's that wikipedia arrived...

E2 is mostly OK. It had some performance, downtime and community issues that took time to resolve. It's sitting under my desk at the moment ;-)

Re:Wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

E2 is full of shit these days. There are some interesting write-ups, but too often it is just a dumping ground for crap poetry, diary entries by whiny teenagers and rose-tinted purple prose about the first time someone got laid.

I suppose it is interesting in a way, but it's not worth going there to find something out.

it'd help

[Anonymous Coward]

if it rendered properly under a gecko browser.... but I suppose that isn't the target audience right?

Re:it'd help

[BiggyP]

it renders ok in my gecko browser, but wouldn't it make sense to design the site using OSS tools?

Good publicity can't hurt

[Inhibit]

Spending R18 million (if I knew what the "R" was I'd convert it) on open source advertising can't hurt. I'd think funding local open source outfits with startup capital and training would probably go farther though. All the pretty advertisements in the world aren't going to help you get your Fedora Desktop running correctly when there's a kernel bug.

Re:Good publicity can't hurt

[Cally]

R is 'rand', currently running at approx 15 per Euro. Dunno what that works out to in legacy currencies tho'.

Re:Good publicity can't hurt

[Misch]

R would be Rand.

18 Million Rand = about 2.56 million dollars (US).

(According to xe.com)

Re:Good publicity can't hurt

[milgr]

R18 million is 18 Million South African Rand.

RE: Good publicity can't hurt

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

All the pretty advertisements in the world aren't going to help you get your Fedora Desktop running correctly when there's a kernel bug.

And, all the pretty desktops that run on Linux don't mean squat if the bean counters and other non-techie PHBs never considers evaluating them. I think this has to be done on both fronts, PR to people that control the purse strings at larger companies, and investment in developers that produce commercial class applications.

Re:Good publicity can't hurt

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

Hey, if you use a tool to convert South African money to the currency used in the Umbrian section if Italy, would it be proper to call that tool... ...a Rand-Um number generator?

I'll be here all week! Try the veal! We miss you, Alan King!

Re:Good publicity can't hurt

[Anonymous Coward]

Your approximation is a bit out. Really out.
1 Euro = 8.24550 ZAR
If you care to look at www.xe.com/ucc.

Re: Good publicity can't hurt

[eugene_roux]

And, all the pretty desktops that run on Linux don't mean squat if the bean counters and other non-techie PHBs never considers evaluating them. I think this has to be done on both fronts, PR to people that control the purse strings at larger companies, and investment in developers that produce commercial class applications.

Yes, and you are so right. But... do yourself a massive favour and have a gander at Mark Shuttleworth's Home page.

On the right hand side you'll see quite a couple of projects he's involved in and funding, including:

• The Shuttleworth Foundation to fund innovative projects in education,
• The SchoolTool Project to produce a common global platform for school administration,
• It's Hip2BSquare! pro-education campaign,
• The ultra-cool UpStarts, an entrepreneurial incubator, and
• Of import to OSS developers, some bounties!

So, as you may see, he's most certainly not just counting on pretty desktops that run on Linux to conquer the world for OSS.

As per ususal, in my own Quixotic way, I'm planning on helping as far I can...

Even if it is just mouthing off on /. <grin>

Re:Robber Baron Stikes Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Robber baron? Verisign? Eh??

Bad moderation

[texasandroid]

I selected the wrong moderation choice on a post and am posting this to kill that moderation. I ask other moderators to have mercy, and not mod me off-topic, but instead just let this post languish at it's default level.

Re:Bad moderation

[Anonymous Coward]

The moderation disappears if you reply anonymously to the post you just moderated. I'm not sure if you have to be logged in, or if posting from the same IP address is sufficient.

Everything2 sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Use this link instead: Mark Shuttleworth.

Re:Everything2 sucks

[Short Circuit]

I suspect they wanted someone to start a writeup.

Re:Everything2 sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a war between Wikipedia and Everything2.

And Wikipedia is winning.

Re:Everything2 sucks

[WhiteDragon]

There's a war between Wikipedia and Everything2.

I wouldn't say it's a war so much as a different philosophy. Wikipedia itself has a good article explaining some of the differences.

Re:Robber Baron Stikes Again

[Twyford]

This has nothing to do with Verisign. Mark sold Thawte to Verisign and is using the money for better causes. The money that is being used for this initiative is Mark's and the partners involved, NOT Verisign. If you understood the situation in South Africa, which I do as a citizen, any new way to save money that could be put to use in a better way is something to look at.

Re:opens source... but computers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please! You'll find that there are quite a few computers dotted about. Ghana, for one, is becoming quite a new outsourcing destination, much like India started not too long ago.

Rand

[mekkab]

R stands for Rand. And 18 mil R approx equals 2.5 mil USD.

Still, not bad.

Re:Afronaut?

[Twyford]

Afro as in African. Afro-American meaning African American. Just a short way of saying it. :)

And he likes slashdot...

[GPLDAN]

In his Bio he lists Slashdot as one of his likes.

He sold Thwate for $575M. Damn, outside of the guy who founded Hotmail and actually walked away from a Microsoft $300M offer, holding out until he got something like $500M, this is the 2nd most impressive dot-com startup guy I've heard about. That's amazing.

This isn't the only good thing in Africa...

[Three Headed Man]

A very nice gentleman recently contacted me about transferring some funds out of Africa as well.

Related Link

[CompWerks]

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/

Ugh.

[Anonymous Coward]

This really isn't too useful yet.
Hang in there.

Re:Robber Baron Stikes Again

[Cally]

any new way to save money that could be put to use in a better way is something to look at.

How about having a whip-round for the cash needed to get a nice professional hit done on the Minister for Bullshi^h^h^h Health? I'm only half-joking - any country that has a health minister who recommends potatoes, garlic and lemon juice as a cure for AIDS & who is NOT then sacked in disgrace on the spot, has _serious_ problems :/ (google for "Mantu AIDS M'Beki" for the gory details...) Anyway this is completely O/T.

we've /.ed e2

[Triv]

As much as I've missed the e2 linkage over here, was it really such a good idea to put it in a slashdot story what with all the server problems we've been having over there? I mean geez, guys, I think you just slashdotted e2. Nate do something to piss you off, or what?

Triv

ouch

[proj_2501]

Thank you for slashdotting e2. Now I can actually get some work done.

Funniest thing is...

[Pig Hogger]

The funniest thing about Shuttleworth is that when he went into Space, he did so in a Soyouz rocket...

R is for Rand

[nurmr]

that's south african rand, i think ZAR is the symbol

Re:DUMB FOREIGNER QUESTION (OT)

[Anonymous Coward]

The "oid" suffix means "like", "resembling".

The "waist" is the part of your body from the ribs down to the hips.

"Waistoid" thus means "resembling the waist".

I like that south african....

[zogger]

... "K" money better, it is definetly in the "oohhh, shiny" category.

South Africa

[aNTee-KrUsT]

We here in ZA has seen a lot of integration of open source everywhere, even our own government supports it. Another shuttleworth link.

"What resolution is life running at"

Throatgestabben!

[Glonoinha]

When I first saw the header I thought to myself 'man, Mark Shuttleworth needs to take his $575M and spend the rest of his life like Hugh Hefner, set up a mansion and tap a LOT of high quality ass.

Ouch! Then I RTFA and I felt like I had been stabbed in the throat AGAIN!

Disclaimer : I am going to try and keep this civil and troll / flame free, expressing my honest feelings - but damn!

Does nobody see the long term ramifications of this?
Is there nobody that can see the writing on the wall?

I honestly don't envision the long term effects of this as 'a good thing'. Jesus H. Christ - how's this for an idea : how about I go to some third world country where the wage scales make Indian off-shore wages look like a king's ransom and teach all the indigenous inhabitants how to be 'computer guys'. These guys would sell their own brother into slavery for a cow and a chicken, just envision what they would do for $2/hr. Anybody that thinks their long term employment prospects are bad now, just wait until this little project comes to fruition.

And the hits just keep on coming.

My first impressions were probably right, Mark Shuttleworth needs to take his $575M and spend the rest of his life like Hugh Hefner, set up a mansion and tap a LOT of high quality ass. Invested at 5% that is pretty close to $80k a day - that ought to be plenty to keep a mansion full of the best 'tangs in life.

Re:Throatgestabben!

[mav[LAG]]

Disclaimer : I am going to try and keep this civil and troll / flame free, expressing my honest feelings - but damn!

Then let me try and be so in return...

Does nobody see the long term ramifications of this? Is there nobody that can see the writing on the wall?

Well, Andy Grove did in his book Only The Paranoid Survive. Probably the most famous quote in there was this one:
"If the world operates as one big market, every employee will compete with every person anywhere in the world who is capable of doing the same job. There are lots of them and many of them are hungry."

Sounds like a spot-on prediction to me. Bear in mind that this was published in 1996 which shows you just how much insight he had back then.

I honestly don't envision the long term effects of this as 'a good thing'. Jesus H. Christ - how's this for an idea : how about I go to some third world country where the wage scales make Indian off-shore wages look like a king's ransom and teach all the indigenous inhabitants how to be 'computer guys'.

Sounds good. Nothing like a bit of volunteer work to get your worldviews really in perspective :)

These guys would sell their own brother into slavery for a cow and a chicken, just envision what they would do for $2/hr.

Surprisingly, most people in the third world (where I live) want the same as you: to be left alone, to have food on the table, roofs over their heads and satisfying work to do to earn money.

Anybody that thinks their long term employment prospects are bad now, just wait until this little project comes to fruition.

I don't see how - the campaign is promoting the use and development of open source software. Anyone in the world who uses it will benefit.
The real problem for US tech workers right now is that globalisation has caught up with you where it hurts and I would be lying if that word shadenfreude hasn't occurred to me more than once recently. For many years, the globalisation mantra has benefited few economies outside the US. It's going to be good for your economy in the long run like making it more competitive for a start :)

Plenty of us outside the US (I am South African for the record) have seen this coming for ages, especially in the FLOSS arena where no-one cares where you're from as long as your code is clean and works. Outsourcing of development and support to skilled markets outside the US was just the next step - and it's happening.

My first impressions were probably right, Mark Shuttleworth needs to take his $575M and spend the rest of his life like Hugh Hefner, set up a mansion and tap a LOT of high quality ass.

He could have but he chose instead to put money back into the open source community.

Re:Throatgestabben!

[rlafflick]

Karma be damned! Screw you for being an ignoramus thinking any human being would sell their own brother into slavery for a cow and chicken. You stupid and insensitive MotherFucker. Slavery was forced on Africans by Europeans and Americans. Stop trying to re-write history and saying slaves were sold into slavery by their brothers.

Re:Throatgestabben!

[Glonoinha]

Don't get me wrong, I'm just bitter.
That said, lets play 'Envision'.

Envision that the world likes Diamonds. Not hard to envision.

Envision that over the past 30 years Africa had been the sole supplier of Diamonds to the world, had been able to command high prices and for whatever reason built a massive infrastructure to protect the country from invasion, to provide healthy food and water to everybody, to insure that everyone had their medical needs met, to insure that it evolved into a country of laws and clean living, for the most part.

Envision that a large portion of the Diamond revenues were returned to the people, but 50% of their annual income must be given to the government in order to maintain this lifestyle for everyone. Lets put a random number to it, say $50,000 income, of which $20,000 goes back to the government each year, and homes cost $75,000.

Now envision someone finding Diamonds in the Arctic Circle, millions of Diamonds laying on the ground driving the price down by 90%.

The last thing to envision : regardless of the fact that the money trickling into the country to the Diamond miners has dropped by 90%, lets envision that the people still had to pay $20k per year in infrastructure (taxes) and that they still had to make $1k / month payments on homes. It isn't about wanting to price themselves competitively, it is about paying for the infrastructure that was created in order to create the global demand for Diamonds in the first place.

In order for the demand for programming labor to even exist (locally or globally), a massive infrastructure (and tax base) must exist and be continually paid for - for the tech world, most of it in the USA. If all of the developers in (insert country here) were all working for local companies developing goods for resale within their country or even for resale to the world at large - this wouldn't be happening. But that's not the case, because the infrastructure hasn't been developed (and paid for) in their country. The businesses to create those products, to use those products, and to pay for those products don't exist in those countries - the demand and the infrastructure that creates and supports that demand is by and large in the US and paid for by taxing US citizens (both in the form of taxes and real estate prices.)

I am not saying that SAfrica can't / won't contribute to the F/OSS movement. What I am saying is that in outfitting them to do so we are opening yet another Pandora's box that is going to magnify the destructive outsourcing effects that have been running rampant through the US in the past few years and once open that box can't be closed.

Rome didn't see the collapse of Rome coming, but I bet it was their own doing.
Egypt didn't see the collapse of Egypt coming, but I bet it was their own doing.
The USSR didn't see the collapse of the USSR coming, but I know it was their own doing.

The USA doesn't see the collapse of the USA coming, but I bet this massive outsourcing movement is the foundation upon which that failure will be built. And they are doing it to themselves, with many of their citizens encouraging it all the while.

Re:Throatgestabben!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just for the record. South Africa is doing really well economically. This is primarily due to business and government working together over the last 10 years to take us out of our previously closed minded environment.

South Africans are also doing well enough not to need the pity and descending advice from first world people who, having seen a few sensational stories on TV, think they know what it's like to be South African.

Rather keep your pessimistic opinions about our country to yourself until you've sat down with a Castle, some putu and a decent stik of braai vleis!

Re:Throatgestabben!

[mav[LAG]]

Envision that the world likes Diamonds. Not hard to envision. ..snip..

*Nod*, excellent analogy.

In order for the demand for programming labor to even exist (locally or globally), a massive infrastructure (and tax base) must exist and be continually paid for - for the tech world, most of it in the USA.

Historically, there's no doubt the world has benefited from the explosion in the tech industry driven by the US. Without cheap hardware and bandwidth and the culture of innovation (real innovation I mean - not integrating buggy browsers with the OS) the IT world would not be where it is today.

If all of the developers in (insert country here) were all working for local companies developing goods for resale within their country or even for resale to the world at large - this wouldn't be happening. But that's not the case, because the infrastructure hasn't been developed (and paid for) in their country.

I think the vast majority of developers (with India as a possible exception) do work locally for local companies and the infrastructure they use is paid for with local money, even it's imported from the US. But that works both ways too: the US imports plenty of goods and services from the rest of the world.

The businesses to create those products, to use those products, and to pay for those products don't exist in those countries - the demand and the infrastructure that creates and supports that demand is by and large in the US and paid for by taxing US citizens (both in the form of taxes and real estate prices.)

I am no economist but as I understand it, industries and services will naturally migrate to places where they can they can be produced at lower cost. This has already happened with DRAM and some assembly services (I think my Dell was assembled in Taipei for example).
The real problem is that Wall Street has publically-traded US tech companies and the customers they depend on by the short and curlies - expecting x% year or year solid growth, to be more competitive and so on. That has forced many to cut costs and move local cost centres (especially development and call centres) to where they are cheaper.

I am not saying that SAfrica can't / won't contribute to the F/OSS movement. What I am saying is that in outfitting them to do so we are opening yet another Pandora's box that is going to magnify the destructive outsourcing effects that have been running rampant through the US in the past few years and once open that box can't be closed.

South Africa has more than a few problems right now: 40% unemployment, one in ten people here has HIV, crime is still a real problem and the cost of bandwidth and communications is outrageous.
But we have little sympathy for the first world when it:

• enforces drug patents on us in the name of profit and
  
• burdens us with the first world-friendly requirements of GATT, WTO and TRIPS while slapping massive tariffs on our exports
  

Recently Brazil, South Africa and India have decided to co-operate on trade precisely because of these issues. I don't think the USA is struggling because it's going down, it's because everyone else is coming up to join them.

The USA doesn't see the collapse of the USA coming, but I bet this massive outsourcing movement is the foundation upon which that failure will be built. And they are doing it to themselves, with many of their citizens encouraging it all the while.

If enough people decide that they've had enough, it will change. Voting the Republicrats out of office would be a good start. But it will take some more time before the vast majority of middle America feel any pain - there's too much security, money and comfort there at the moment.

Re:Throatgestabben!

[sigaar]

Amen broer....

Just for the Record

[Pope Raymond Lama]

This sane Mike Shuttleworth offered, about 2 months ago, some funding for The Gimp, and two of the current developers made a deal with him to be paid to further GEGL (Generic Graphical Library) development and integration with the GIMP.

GEGL, once fully implemented, and integrated to The GIMP core, will finally allow it to use images with higher color depths than 8 bit per plane.

Re:This should help

[Twyford]

This kind of writing is exactly what growing countries like South Africa do not need. Your racist comments mean nothing.

What is your basis of South Africa turning into a Zimbabwe. For one thing stay ontopic and move your racism to another forum.

The only comment that can be taken out of your writing is "Yea opensource." Well done. I am sure the FSF are rubbing their hands in glee with having a person like you in the movement

Probably TheOpenCD

[HenrikOxUK]

I've been in touch with the OSS people at the Shuttleworth Foundation about distributing TheOpenCD. They may have made some modifications (as they are free to do). Thomas Black of the foundation even helped us squash some last minute bugs. Thanks :)

Re:Probably TheOpenCD

[BiggyP]

well, if they did go with our CD, i know someone who could use some money...

Re:This should help

[Twyford]

Right, Anonymous Coward. Off-Topic. Please move your racism to another forum.

I was going to say it's the Thawte that counts

[Anonymous Coward]

but for all I know the name may rhyme with "Naughty." Any pronounciation guide for those of us who are clueless?

Re:Robber Baron Stikes Again

[zakkie]

No worse than the US/UK's insistence that Iraq had WMD. Found any yet? Thought not. One stupid politician's as bad as another - in our case at least she isn't running the damn place... ;-)

Ciao

Zak

Thwayte, thwart, thewte

[badzilla]

I'm often surprised that a company that's been around on the internet this long and with this high a profile gets so misspelt.

I never met Mark Shuttleworth but was always sure he was a spot-on bloke. (Can you imagine e-mailing the CEO of Verisign and actually getting a personal reply? That's how it used to be back in the 90's when Thawte was a close number 2 to Verisign worldwide and Mark was running it.)

But to get back to my point, I was curious myself and a few years ago asked Mark why chose the word "Thawte." He told me he left university and was looking for a job, wondered what he had to offer. Conclusion he came up with was that all he had was his "thought"... voila the name for his new company.

Wish I could have done something like that instead of just being a wage slob :(

Re:Robber Baron Stikes Again

[BiggyP]

i didn't realise the situation was quite as bad as that, this is quite an eye opener.

Re:Robber Baron Stikes Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear TWYFORD:

I am writing to you in hopes that you will understand my situation in South Africa. It seems that a prince died and I was the sole benificiary to his fortune of $1.5 MILLION unfortunately for me the paperwork cost is very expensive but it must be filed soon in order to claim this fortune........

;-)

Re:Robber Baron Stikes Again

[Twyford]

I am very interested in your offer. Please tell me your address, phone number or email address and I can forward to you my passport and banking details so that I may help.

I am sure that you are trustworthy based on the nature of your email. Long Live your prince! Oh wait, he died. sorry

Re:Robber Baron Stikes Again

[Cally]

absolutely agree - like police, politians are basically the same the world over...

Re:Good one! :))))

[Anonymous Coward]

Warning: the parent link contains explicit pictures! This link is safe.