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The Flickering Mind

daltonlp writes "The Flickering Mind deals a crippling blow to the blind faith that educators and politicians place in computers as solutions to education's woes. The level of research and breadth of evidence is tremendous. The book sums up America's past 20 years of false promises, senseless faddism, and wasted millions in attempts to computerize the nation's education system. And no, open source won't help a bit." Read on for the rest of Dalton's review of The Flickering Mind. The Flickering Mind author Todd Oppenheimer pages 512 publisher Random House (Oct. 2003) rating Excellent reviewer Lloyd Dalton ISBN 1400060443 summary An extremely well-researched critique of technology's role in education.

What's bad: The first 350 pages of The Flickering Mind are as depressing as anything I've read. In case after case, Oppenheimer describes politicians' and educators' mindless acceptance of claims by technology pundits and technology companies. The sheer number of tax dollars poured into worthless software and soon-to-be-obsolete hardware is appalling The fact that so few lessons have been learned in 20 years beggars the imagination.

Those are my words, not the author's. The book's examples are laid out in very plain, factual language. No raving rants, no wild tangents. Just record after record, study after study, interview after interview.

Oppenheimer has researched the book by interviewing teachers, students, former students, educational software employees, district policymakers and government officials across the U.S. People with hands-on experience using things like distance-learning systems, CD-ROM-based textbooks, math and reading games, multimedia software, student laptops, school intranets, web-based research papers, and dozens of pieces of educational technology.

A recurring theme in these interviews is how computers either make formerly easy things harder (like classroom discussion), and hard things avoidable (students who know how to copy-paste don't have to construct sentences).

"One English teacher could readily tell which of her students essays were conceived on a computer. "They don't link ideas," the teacher said. "They just write one thing, and then they write another one, and they don't seem to see or develop the relationships between them."

The many interviews give The Flickering Mind a personal feel, and make the reading easier. In many ways, it's like a record of the author's travels from school to school. But one of the book's great strengths is Oppenheimer's unwillingness to rely on anecdotal evidence. Much of the book is devoted to analyzing studies of technology's impact in schools. A good chunk of these studies are commissioned by firms that sell educational software. Not surprisingly, they tend to be shallow and nonscientific. Many pages are spent pointing out flaws in this research. This becomes important when Oppenheimer turns the same critical eye on studies which support his own conclusions. An interesting sub-topic of the book is how very few truly objective educational technology studies exist.

All the evidence against computers as useful learning tools wouldn't be so alarming if computers didn't cost so much. But educators seem especially blind to the continual costs of staying on the technology bandwagon. There are two faces to this problem, and The Flickering Mind addresses both. The first is schools cutting faculty and programs in order to purchase hardware and software. The second is local and national governments granting subsidies and to companies who promise to assist schools with technology. In both cases, taxpayers foot the bill.

The Flickering Mind relies mainly on educators' own criteria for determining how technology helps learning (can the kids read, write, and do math?) But it also takes time to puncture the oft-recycled dogma that society has a shortage of graduates with high-tech skills:

"When employers who were fretting about this gap were asked what skills mattered to them, this is what they said: Most important of all is a deep and broad base of knowledge. "Want to get a job using information technology to solve problems? Know something about the problems that need to be solved." This statement reflected the sentiments of nearly two thirds of the Information Technology Association of America's members. Following far behind this priority was "hands-on experience" with technical work, which less than half the nation's IT managers considered critical (Most apparently felt perfectly capable of teaching those skills on the job.)

What's good:

All is not Luddite doom-and-gloom. The Flickering Mind is careful to highlight the areas where computer technology helps kids learn. Many schools do benefit from computers--as long as the computers are in central labs (not in the classroom), and not networked. One school has a senior-level class in which students build the computers used in the labs. Programming classes are valued by upperclassmen with an interest in technology careers. Some educators have made adjustments, like the teacher who removed all but a single-size font from the machines "so the students can write instead of wasting time adjusting the text".

The final third of the book is an uplifting counterpart to the ignorance and frustration described in the first two thirds. Oppenheimer gives details of visits to several schools which buck the trend of embracing technology as an end in itself. They use computers, but not in the class:

"In an aging brick building on New York's Upper East Side, a dozen teenagers of varying ages, half of whom look like street kids, pull their desks into a circle as their teacher distributes several thick handouts. "You're killing trees," one student complains."

"Yes," says the teacher. "I'm killing lots of trees"

After the students have spent fifteen to twenty minutes with the handouts, discussion begins. The debate is constant and heated. Whenever the dialog bogs down or goes off course, the teacher quickly interrupts. "I want to hear some pieces of evidence here!" he insists.

A university professor contrasted former students of this school with others she'd met: "I've had the experience of asking students a question and there's a one-sentence answer. And it's not a question of shyness or dumbness, but the person hasn't learned how to develop an idea. How to make a statement and then qualify and describe and give examples and illustrations. Each and every one of these people could do that."

Conclusion

The Flickering Mind is one of the most well-researched books I've read. It is well worth checking out from your library. It's even more worth buying, because you'll likely be re-reading it and lending it to your friends.

You can purchase the The Flickering Mind from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, carefully read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

44 of 455 comments (clear)

  1. Cut 'n' Dried by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The Flickering Mind deals a crippling blow to the blind faith that educators and politicians place in computers as solutions to education's woes.

    Methinks the submitter doesn't speak with educators and politicians all that often. It's simply absurd to suggest that your typical educator or politician blindly believes that computers are the solution to America's education woes.

    One wonders about the reviewer's credentials if this is how he frames the debate surrounding the use of technology in our schools. This is a complex issue with no clear answers--not some good vs. evil Joes 'n' Cobra brawl.

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    1. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They don't see is as a full solution to the woes but they see is a big enough part to cut the Arts, Music and any other area that encourages free thinking.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by taliver · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have spoken to both educators and politicians, and in my opinion, they both believe that by giving students the 'technological edge', they will be better pupils and move farther faster.

      No, the teachers have no idea what the students are doing on the computers. No, the teachers rarely have a clue how to even use them effectively. Yes, they think that by setting a child in front of one, and letting them play 'educational games', that learning will be FUN, and therefore better, and therefore the students will learn more.

      And politicians find themselves with a very good problem that they can truly throw money at. "Give every child a laptop!" "Every desk should have a computer!", etc.

      I swear if the school my kid attends ever starts pushing computers in front of him, I'll switch to homeschooling where I can trust he'll be reading actual books.

      --

      I demand a million helicopters and a DOLLAR!

    3. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by raider_red · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Unfortunately, a lot of them do. I got into an argument with two friends over this one day. One's the principal of a school in Austin, the other is a teacher there. They both feel that computer skills are the number one thing they need to teach to make sure that students are successful, while I believe that Math and Science are. (I'm a computer professional.)

      The fourth person in the argument is a math teacher, (and soon to be head of her school's math department) who feels that computers are a distant second to Math, Science and Writing skills.

      Unfortunately, the computer has become the panacea to bad teaching. They think that if you put a student in front of a computer and he is taught to use it, he'll magically acquire a competence in the pure sciences. Really, they'll be qualified to work as data-entry clerks, but the educators don't seem to understand that.

      --
      It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
    4. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a former teacher, I'd have to agree that teaches do NOT believe computers are the solution. Many teachers avoid computers, since their students know so much more about them than they do.

      On the other hand, I have seen cases where politicians are more interested in looking good than in fixing the real problems (would you believe that!?), and come up with plans to use computers and claiming they'll fix all the troubles.

      The bottom line is the teacher-student relationship. That is one of the most important factors in teaching. A good teacher (as long as they have support in discipline issues), can teach students with nothing but a blackboard and chalk for the teacher and paper and pencils for the students. Any teacher who thinks computers are the solution should find another job! On the other end, a good teacher who learns how to use computers, could find many ways to integrate them into the classroom and assignments.

      I mentioned support on discipline. In my experience, if politicians and educators want to focus on one "answer" that will have the greatest effect on improving education, that's the one subject to tackle: making sure teachers get support on enforcing appropriate classroom behavior. (Just one example: I had an obnoxious student. I had worked with him, kept him after school, given him disciplinary assignments, talked on the phone many times with his parents, and nothing worked. I finally wrote up a referral for him to see the assistant principal. 6 weeks later the referal was in my mailbox with a sticky note saying, "Has this been resolved?" without the principal ever seeing the student. The next year this assistant princiapal was promoted to principal of the county's new school. If you want solutions for education, censure administrators like that and focus on discipline, not on adding computers.) (Sorry for the rant, but it's to point out there are many worse problems in education than worrying about using computers.)

    5. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I agree with you that there exists a body of educators and politicians who do have an inflated sense of the value of technology in our schools. There is also a large contingent of intelligent, informed educators and politicians who have a good understanding of the limitations of computers.

      What I disagree with is the sweeping, black-and-white generalizations the reviewer uses to set the tone of the debate. It's wrong and counterproductive to frame the entire educational and political community in such a simple, petty fashion. It makes me think that the reviewer more interested in parading his own opinions than making thoughtful contribution to a complex issue.

      Computers do have a place in education, and mistakes are made in both directions when it comes to technology spending in education. To start a discussion by painting educators and politicians as uninformed, mindless zealots does nothing but trivialize the matter at hand.

      --

      Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    6. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unfortunately, a lot of them do. I got into an argument with two friends over this one day. One's the principal of a school in Austin, the other is a teacher there. They both feel that computer skills are the number one thing they need to teach to make sure that students are successful, while I believe that Math and Science are. (I'm a computer professional.)

      Do you not see your own brand of blindness here? I readily admit I'm a math and science geek, and love both. But I will also say that math and science are completely useless to a LOT of people who could not care less about it, and in fact, it's OKAY that they don't care. Very few things in this world require science or high-level math past arithmetic.

      Reading and writing are infinitely more important, because they underpin everything, including critical thinking. I've known a lot of people who liked math and science, but were utterly useless as thinkers. Hell, just look at Slashdot. :)

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    7. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you not see your own brand of blindness here? I readily admit I'm a math and science geek, and love both. But I will also say that math and science are completely useless to a LOT of people who could not care less about it, and in fact, it's OKAY that they don't care. Very few things in this world require science or high-level math past arithmetic.

      Teaching math and science is the foundation for teaching abstract critical thinking. What seems to pass for "crtical thinking" with many people today is the ability to memorize pithy sayings and repeat them on command.

      Some (like you apparently) may have developed an interest on their own, but most were not taught to have this interest, or understand why it might be important.

      In many places we have people who have really little more than a 16th century education.

      They may be able to do basic addition and subtraction. They probably can read an advertisement, a newspaper and the religious book of their choice.

      And while I'm not suggesting they need to know how to calculate the trajectory of a satellite, they don't even understand that a satellite has a trajectory or why one might want to calculate it!

      Some of these people are teachers that I have personally met in a major US urban public school system!

    8. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by nelsonal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Algebra and Calculus underpin a whole lot of the current world, while calc isn't neccessary, understanding things like exponential growth, rates of change (and their relationship to position), and they make explination of how the worlds of business and finance work. Those two worlds will at a minimum tangentially affect most people's lives. Saving for retirement and a mortgage are just two examples. Sure, anyone could be taught to use an ammortization calculator, but the person with a calculus education can tell pretty quickly calculator is off, using tricks that make sense looking back at the problem (like the rule of 72).
      Ironically, having computer skills is just a bit of rote training, the jobs that everyone was (is?) pushing so hard to get kids up to speed for require more of an understanding of how the computer system works which usually require a good measure of critical thinking, logic, and math skills, not basic training on how to use Windows and Office. Better to know how a spreadsheet works, and apply that knowledge to Office.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    9. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by linzeal · · Score: 3, Insightful
      What is wrong with giving students a computer with a multitude of programs and tutorials on it and let them figure it out? The problem I have seen as a first year teacher's assistant is that kids simply will not study anything that is not directly related to what they need to pass their classes for the majority. The minority use computers as tools and excel at using some of the 10,000's of acedemically related software from Art Programs to Zoology out there not to mention the billions of information spiggots online.

      Technology is not the problem it is the illiterate educators and the lackidasical students who have been taught no better than to (go to class/take notes/ study notes/take test) system for umpteen years when it should look like (go online with an educational matrix designed for you/have access to expert systems backed by databases of already asked questions and live mentors to help with understanding/discuss with your peers in forums issues pertinent to you/get graded on particpation in helping others and convincing an expert system that you have grasp of the material and than move on to another self actualized education area/have lunch/go get some coffee/still be connected wirelessly so others may get help from you/etcetera). Accreditation as it currently stands is unbearably quaint but does not involve any personalization or have the ability to do so without a massive expenditure in new teaching talent. More teachers are not the answer, holding students responsible for their own education is like we as professionals are.

    10. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by GreyyGuy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Please send me the names and addresses of all the people you know who find math and science useless. My personal business needs more customers that can't understand the math on the bill I send them, and who will nod blindly to the scientific gobbledygook that I use to describe my products. I think I can sell a lot of stuff to people unaware of the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide. It's in the food you eat, you know.

    11. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unfortunately, the computer has become the panacea to bad teaching. They think that if you put a student in front of a computer and he is taught to use it, he'll magically acquire a competence in the pure sciences. Really, they'll be qualified to work as data-entry clerks, but the educators don't seem to understand that.

      I think that what modern education administration (not necessarily teachers, although the stupid ones do play a big part) and modern media has failed to realize about 'Generation-X' and all of us now in our late-20's, 30's that are now making good salaries in the computer industry is that we weren't slackers that learned computers because of video gaming and sleeping in half the day. We learned computers because that was one outlet of learning and exploring that was challenging, new and exciting to us at that time because our middle/high-school experiences were filled with teachers not skilled at TEACHING! And getting a master's in education does not a good TEACHER make! You can't simply train any random person to be a good teacher, just as you can't train any random kid to be a whiz with computers.

      Personally I found learning BASIC programming to be a challenge waiting to be conquered most nights at home while I neglected the boringly-taught subjects of Social Studies and History. That's sad, because I have always been interested deeply in History and Social Studies (to a degree) from when I was a kid to the present. Unfortunately I knew more about Vietnam, WW2, and several other historically major events than the majority of my teachers because I read on my own. Most other kids didn't do that. Because I was bored to tears being forced to learn the basics of those courses and regurgitate info on paper, I simply focused more of my 'learning' efforts on things like computers which I did not have to regurgitate info in a typical classroom setting. I learned faster and worked harder at it since it was fresh and new.

      If the education administration would quit trying to dumb down the courses for the least common denominator so that every kid felt good about themselves, we'd have a lot less wasted money in our schools today. And yes, I'm sure that will cause both economic and political disparities between groups of people, but which would you rather have? A declining educational system with a bunch of happy, dumb adults running society; or an at times divided society with mostly educated people trying to do their best?

    12. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by RealAlaskan · · Score: 3, Interesting
      >>I swear if the school my kid attends ever starts pushing computers in front of him, I'll switch to homeschooling where I can trust he'll be reading actual books.

      >Do it anyway. He'll get a better education that way.

      I was going to say you were right, but then I realized that you're wrong. The kid won't get a better education, he'll get an education! Schools are about schooling, and education is not included.

      There are very few good teachers, but those few are responsible for all the education which happens in the schools. For a good view of what schooling is all about, and how it differs from education, see John Taylor Gatto's essay, The Six-Lesson School Teacher.

    13. Re:Cut 'n' Dried by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bull.

      That was my first reaction, anyhow. My second reaction was a bit more respectable. That was the reaction where I stopped thinking how horrible it was for you to say, and started thinking about why you're saying it.

      If it's just about employability, you're right: most jobs these days don't require anything beyond basic algebra, and what little tidbits of science are needed can be trained on the job. Why learn all about the radio spectrum when all you need to work at Dish Network's call center is "trees and power lines block our signal?"

      But there's something very dehumanizing about the idea of only teaching people that which they need to know to perform their function in life. It reminds me of Plato's ideal state, where astronomy, geometry, and dialectic were to be taught only to a few initiates. Everyone knows their place, and people are discouraged from ever straying from it.

      But the more important argument against this position is a pragmatic one: People need to know science. People need to know it so that they don't get suckered by alternative medicine scams, so that they can critically evaluate claims in a debate between a business and an environmental group, so that they can have some conception of what claims are reasonable and what claims are utter hogwash. How do we expect to run a democracy with a citizenry who decides issues like genetically modified foods and abortion rights based on trite aphorisms?

      A firm understanding of science is a powerful innoculation against those pernicious memes which want to infect your brain and steal your money.

      Hell, I once had a very long debate with a music teacher over a certain cash-only multi-level marketing scam. I could mathematically prove that the only money coming into the system was money provided by other people, and that it was entirely impossible for everyone to see their money come back eightfold. But no matter how I dumbed it down for him, he just didn't get that you can't make money by simply trading it around with other people. I lost touch with him, so I don't know the outcome, but he's probably a few hundred dollars poorer for it.

      I grudgingly have to agree with you on one point: Given a choice between a school that turned out mathematicians and science geeks and one which turned out readers and critical thinkers, I would have to choose the latter. But given that our educational system has these kids for 1260 hours per year from first grade onward, there should be plenty of time for both.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  2. Clifford Stoll's two books by The+I+Shing · · Score: 5, Informative

    Astronomer Clifford Stoll similarly makes compelling arguments against computers in the classroom (libraries as well) in his books Silicon Snake Oil and High-Tech Heretic.

    I saw Clifford Stoll in person at a lecture given in front a group of librarians. He animatedly pointed out, with his lecture notes written on his hand, that in the distant future the jobs that people do will still require old-fashioned learning and hands-on experience.

    "If I were around even a hundred years from I now I wouldn't want to visit a dentist who's learned his trade from a CD-ROM," he explained, "I would want a dentist who had hands-on experience at a dental school."

    He talked about how software packages make the outrageous claim that they can "make learning fun," when actual learning takes self-discipline, hard work, and effective human teachers.

    As for me, I love being able to order books from the library online, and have them sent from faraway libraries to the one down the street from my office, but I still sometimes feel a bit cheated that I had the Dewey Decimal System and its card catalog lookup method drilled into my head from an early age, only to have the latter removed from the library and replaced with a row of computers. When our library system first implemented this change, the computers were far more difficult to operate than the alphabetized drawers of the card catalog. Nowadays, with the web-based system, it's much easier to find exactly what I want, but I still sometimes miss the thrill of the hunt, as it were, flipping through cards organized by subject, title, and author, searching for just the right book.

    --
    You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
    1. Re:Clifford Stoll's two books by Paulrothrock · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A computer is a tool. A well prepared mind can make a computer do amazing things, just like a well prepared mind can make a hammer and chisel do amazing things. However, an unprepared mind will just turn the block of stone into a pile of dust. Let's focus on preparing the minds before giving them all the tools. Like the teacher removing all the fonts from the computer, we need to get people to think about what they're doing, not how it looks or is perceived. Reading, discussion, and experimentation are ways to do this, and while they can be done on a computer, the complexity of the system gets in the way. People learn how to use the computer to prepare their minds, when it should be the other way around.

      --
      I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
    2. Re:Clifford Stoll's two books by SquadBoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was just thinking about this. Let me tell a long story. I'm a network guy and kind of known as a PC/Server guy. I get asked a lot of questions that take me about 10 minutes with Google to find answers to. Now I'll date myself when I was in debate in High School we used to spend hours at the local Uni digging through their stacks to find information and stuff to build debate cases with. This was both fun and I learned a lot about research. I think this accounts for why I can find answers on the web that some of the kids I work with who never really had to do research without computers can not.

      Kind of like once you learn math without a calculator you can then do amazing things very quickly when given the tool. But if you never learn math without the calculator you are stuck being able to not do any of those really amazing things the tool can help you do.

      --

      Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
    3. Re:Clifford Stoll's two books by kzinti · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I saw Stoll give a similar lecture at the Embedded Systems Conference a few years ago. A one-line summary of his thesis: Don't take computers out of the schools, but don't try to substitute them for real learning. Teach kids to use computers, but also teach them why computers work, how to program them, how to take them apart, how to build one, etc. I couldn't agree more.

      Cliff Stoll is one hell of a good speaker. Bizarre too. He showed up at the ESC with two TV camera crews in tow, trying to interview him. He sat on stage before the talk, writing out his lecture notes on his hands. He had three or four milk-carton crates full of gadgets that he wanted to demonstrate, although I only recall one actually making it out of the box: a radar "speed gun" made out of an old coffee can and some electronics. He wandered all though the audience during his talk, at one point even coming out and taking over one of the TV cameras taping the talk. Although he had notes written all over his hand, he constantly seemed to diverge down new paths as they occurred to him. Oh yes, and then there was the four cartons of milk (or was it chocolate milk?) he drank during the talk. Very entertaining, and despite the apparent chaos of the lecture, he had the audience right in the palm of his hand when he wanted their attention... as at the end, when he talked about computers in schools.

      If you ever get the chance to see this guy talk, don't miss it.

  3. On a scale of 1 to Excellent by Neil+Blender · · Score: 4, Funny

    I rate this book a.....Q

  4. Computers or teachers by Gunnery+Sgt.+Hartman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What I don't understand is that schools spend thousands and thousands of dollars to upgrade technology, but they still don't have any teachers that are worth a damn or teachers that are severly underpaid. Seems like schools also forget the fact that that computer is hard to use if there is no decent desk to put it on. I've had classes that use desks that were here when the college was founded. There's not enough room on the writing surface for single sheet of paper. WTF?

    --
    [ ]
  5. Re:I'd agree with it by Kenja · · Score: 4, Funny
    "Computers did not teach me how to interact with other people. They did not teach social or moral skills. They provided a fraction of the education I needed. Computers will never be able to replace the social education that every person needs."

    You just didn't spend enough time playing Quake.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  6. TRS-80 Rules! by filesiteguy · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't agree that educators for the most part belive blindly in the technology. I do, however, have much experience in this area. My mother and wife are both primary level teachers and have been at the forefront of "education in the classroom" initiaves. All of which failed to one degree or another. I often spent hours helping them setup systems that broke with no support. The only thing I remember as positive is when my 6th grade teacher got two TRS-80 Model I computers back in '79. We were invited to go after school every day and learn BASIC. That started me off.

  7. times are changing by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 5, Funny

    Teachers are just being stubborn. They have to change with the times. Instead of grading a paper "F", grade it "OMFG n00b".

    Instead of grading it "A", grade it "<3".

    When the kids get rowdy, instead of trying to yell over the crowd, just write "STFU kthx" on the board.

    Change with the times, people.

    1. Re:times are changing by happyfrogcow · · Score: 4, Funny

      d00d, u jst m@d3 m3 w@n7 t0 b3c0m3 @ t3ach3r.

  8. Grumpy by KnarfO · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Author and submitter sound like they're a bit grumpy over this whole computer fad thing. "Darn kids and their technology! Why, when I was your age, I had to write my reports on *paper*... with a *pencil*!!..."

    C'mon... the only success stories in schools were where the comps were not in the classroom, and weren't networked (how do you print??) sounds fishy to me, and smacks of some serious anti-tech bias, IMHO.

    --


    "Creativity is allowing ones self to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep" - Scott Adams
    1. Re:Grumpy by PCM2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed. I think anybody would be a fool to question the value that access to computers has for education.

      On the other hand, computers in the classroom doesn't necessarily sound like a good idea to me. A friend of mine is a teacher at an art college here, where they have invested a ton of money in technology and teaching the latest Web design, 3-D graphics, etc. He says he has a hard time keeping kids' attention in class when every one of them has a computer installed on his or her desk. He'll be trying to give a lecture and they'll be leaning over, giggling at each others screens as they pull up random pages on the Web. And these are *college students*, let alone high school age kids or younger.

      Seems like you're better off having a large computer lab that students can use as a resource on their own time, the same way they do the school library. Or, wirelessly networked laptops on the desks would be fine, too -- just so long as they stay closed until it's time to get to work.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  9. If perhaps, people would start ... by burgburgburg · · Score: 3, Informative
    valuing these individuals known as teachers and paying them a decent, livable wage and treating them with the respect you'd "expect" for someone that is educating your damn children, instead of seeing their profession as something any idiot can do (because they have life experience after all) and anyway, they should be doing it for the love of the job and anyway we're already overbudget because of these cool computers and ...

    I'm sure if I hold my breath, it will happen before I pass out and bump my head against the desk. Here I go ....mmmph...mmmprhu .....BAM!

    Owww. Thanks a lot, /.

  10. In fairness... by Otter · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Math education goes back to, who, Euclid? (And various Mayans, Chinese and others -- the point is that there's an extensive history to draw on.)And we're still lurching from one way to teach kids to multiply to another, and then to that it only matters how they feel about 6 times 8, and then back to memorizing tables.

    Meanwhile, personal computers are now on their second generation of students, their capabilities change every year, as does what is needed to know to use them and The Future is all about them. It's not astonishing that teachers haven't quite figured out what to do with them.

  11. um, unstructured ideas? by Knights+who+say+'INT · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "One English teacher could readily tell which of her students essays were conceived on a computer. "They don't link ideas," the teacher said. "They just write one thing, and then they write another one, and they don't seem to see or develop the relationships between them."'


    But you can actually structure your essays better when you can first type out ideas and chunks of sentences, and then restructure until they form a coherent, logical progression.

    Unless you like to handwrite endless drafts, handwritten work would generally be more confuse.

    Now, really, perhaps these are nonlinear times. I have a class with a philosophy professor who keeps on saying that mind is hypertextual, and he`s fascinated with the possibilites of nonlinear argumentation. Not John Negroponte or some hypermedia freak, a 60-years-old Medieval Philosopher scholar whose idea of a fascinating subject is the Summa Teologica.

    I gotta say I learned all my english and all my french on the net (it's not that bad, check my post history), and have generally learned to write better and been more exposed to intellectual, structured debate than I'd ever be without it. Moreover, I've had contact with all these scholars from around the world who research subjects that interested me at one point, and learned about many research areas I didn't even know that existed.

    Of course, I've also seen a lot of freak pr0n, but we were discussing education, weren't we?
    1. Re:um, unstructured ideas? by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 3, Interesting
      But you can actually structure your essays better when you can first type out ideas and chunks of sentences, and then restructure until they form a coherent, logical progression.

      The facts don't bear that out: the end result of computer-editing tends to be rather scattershot. I would argue that this is because coherent arguments start as fully-formed thoughts (in the short term; in the longer term obviously they develop, as one learns). The sad fact of the matter is that most folks don't seem to think well, and computers just give them an easy out.

      Writing drafts by hand forces one to think--it's slow, and painful and spends money (paper's not free). Typing, by contrast, is easy and cheap. There's no incentive to think before jotting down whatever comes to mind. Much of my /. output is proof of this:-)

      Back in college, I finally figured out how to write good papers: I went down to the local pub with a briefcase full of books and paper, spread it all out and started. First I read the books; then I wrote an outline; then I fleshed it out, then I wrote the paper a few times, then I went home an typed the whole thing up in LaTeX, printed it out, proofed it one last time & turned it in. Much beer was drunk and much tobacco sacrificed in my pipe throughout the process... Anyway, I ended up with straight As that year, compared to low Bs, a few Cs and some As.

  12. The problem with computer education. by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem with Computer education is that they use computers for every area of studies but they don't teach them how to use the computer as a tool. For Science Class students will use computers to virtually dissect a frog. But when it comes to doing a calculation they will still reach for the paper. Or what happened in college there was a student working on there math homework in the computer lab, they were using the application called Maple (for those who dont know about it it is a fairly powerful math program) now he needed to do some simple arithmetic so he went around asking people for a calculator. Not even thinking about using the calculator that comes with almost every OS on the planet. Or in maple where you just need to to type the formula in and follow with a ;. He was trained to use the computer and Maple just as he was taught but it never occurred for him to use the computer for a problem that wasn't required for class to solve. But because the teacher are so inflexible about computer they don't teach the students to use the computers as a tool. They just use them as a way to sit down and grade papers.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  13. Blame people, not computers by taradfong · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You need good people teaching good things to good people to get good results. We barely pay the teachers, and so we scare away lots of good people from teaching. Our curriculums are weak and far away from reality. We raise our kids without a parent at home using the TV/computer as a surrogate and feed them non-stop hyperactivity chow, and so they are more or less unteachable.

    Computers won't fix this situation. Maybe if we fixed the other 3 problems, they would make a good situation better.

    --
    Does it hurt to hear them lying? Was this the only world you had?
  14. part of my thesis by b17bmbr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am finishing a masters in Ed. (Computers and Ed. Technology) and this book was a big part of my thesis. I have been involved in my school's technology for years. This book should be required reading for every princpal and teacher. Sadly, he exposes the "education industrial complex" (paraphrasing Eisenhower) and highlights many problems with our education system. I could go on, but that's my thesis. Schools need to go back to the basics, readin', writin', 'rithmetic. Literacy and critical thinking should be the goals of school, and if the kids never even touch a computer in school, they won't miss a thing. Though I do believe there should be a technology component, where kids do learn basic computer skills.

    I might also suggest Jane Healy's "Failure to Connect" and Clifford Stoll's "Silicon Snake Oil". Please take it from me, I am a high school history teacher, and I see this problem as wide scale.

    --
    My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
    1. Re:part of my thesis by Techguy666 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've read Jane Healy's book. While I generally agree with the sentiments, I found her book far too pessimistic and her statements far too sweeping. I'm an IT Curriculum Specialist for a K-12 school. My job is to critically assess technology and assist teachers in integrating the more useful technologies into our curriculum.

      We've established a laptop program that has been quite successful. The girls (it's a girls' school) learn the traditional curriculum, enhanced with laptops, a knowledge management system, and other technological tools.

      The main tricks are not to let technology dictate the curriculum and not to simply layer technology on top of existing curriculum. When you see an example of poor technology use in a classroom, it's often because some administrator decided that a given technology is cool looking and dumped it into a school for photo ops. When you see technology actually impeding learning, it's because a new technology was deemed "important" and it was dumped into the lap of an untrained teacher using a lesson plan he or she wrote years ago. If that teacher tries teaching the same lesson with extra doodads, the instructional time increases, effective learning time decreases, and technical problems totally draw attention away from the point of the lesson.

      Here's a little one page Statement of Philosophy I give to teachers who are new to our school:

      EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT A SCHOOL LAPTOP PROGRAM

      Basic Assumption:

      1. Laptops facilitate in two areas, processing information & sharing information

      Paradigm Assumptions:

      1. Laptops need to be approached as a "participatory" (Marshall McLuhan) or "cool" (Don Tapscott) medium, not a technological one

      2. Collaboration & group work is highly valued - otherwise, why use networked computers?

      3. The laptop project should encourage presentation & sharing. Otherwise, why use laptops instead of desktop computers or even paper & pen?

      4. "Math thoughts do not occur just in math class". Integrated learning is important and needs to be reflected in how technology is used

      5. Laptops should be used only when appropriate

      6. A laptop program should allow laptops to be used not only for academic activities, but also for social activities. The Internet was built on the former premise, but innovation came from the latter

      7. It's difficult to predict the future. Fortunately, shaping the future is much easier

      Implementation Considerations:

      1. Portable laptops, in theory, will allow anytime, anywhere style of investigation - not only within the school but outside as well

      2. Information (raw input & finished output) must be easily accessible & feedback must be immediate

      3. The needs of students & teachers drive software implementation design - the technology must be invisible (at least, for the initial laptop grade)

      4. Within the same software program, teacher needs and student needs are different

      5. Complexity increases with each additional piece of hardware or software beyond what is "standard" in a laptop. Every modification or addition can crash a computer.

      6. There are novice users and expert users and each approaches technology differently

      If every individual in a school follows the spirit of this guide, and they have a handy-dandy jack-of-all-trades like me to assist, any technology use can't help but be at least a neutral, if not entirely positive, experience in that school.

  15. Computers didn't help me by OglinTatas · · Score: 5, Funny

    Personal anecdote here: way back when I was in high school, the PTA scraped together some money to buy a dozen Apple II computers for an after school computer club. The following year they were incorporated into a computer lab, and a course was offered as an elective for us nerdy kids, but computing wasn't part of the general curriculum.
    Anyway, for my final project in that course, I wrote a program that could take a term paper draft and size requirements as input, and then it would produce an expanded draft to meet those requirements by fiddling with margins, word and line spacing, and finally by inserting nonsense phrases if necessary.
    I submitted the source code, a sample input (3 1/2 pages) and the output, a 5 page English paper (which had been graded "A")
    The teacher gave me an "F" on principle, or maybe because I didn't properly comment the code.
    I even used that program to expand this one-line post.

  16. "Making learning fun" by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >He talked about how software packages make the outrageous claim that they can "make learning fun," when actual learning takes self-discipline, hard work, and effective human teachers.

    Cats and dogs can't survive on instinct alone. Both need to have learned hunting skills. How do they acquire them? They play.

    Play is how mammals learn. They expend enormous energy in play. If play weren't a vital function then non-playing creatures would have taken over the world through sheer efficiency.

    "Self-discipline, hard work, and effective human teachers" could be a description of what happens when humans "play" soccer.

    Learning *is* fun, inherently. We're programmed for it. Any healthy young child is constantly exploring, taking things apart, and asking "why?".

    The great mystery of our educational system is how it has made learning seem like a chore.

    1. Re:"Making learning fun" by Neil+Watson · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The great mystery of our educational system is how it has made learning seem like a chore.

      The minute you tell me I have to learn something and, give a deadline; it becomes a chore.

    2. Re:"Making learning fun" by sean.geek.nz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The "play is how we learning, learning is fun" thing has a lot going for it. BUT: The reason we go to school is to learn things that DON'T come naturally. The school curriculum doesn't teach kids how to talk, or recognize faces, or interact socially. That's not because those skills are easy (they're bloody hard), but because those are skills that we have evolved we learn naturally.. Schools do have a hell of a time trying to teach things like basic statistics, and basic physics, because those do NOT come naturally. We have natural, evolved heuristics for physics and probability that are designed for a primate living on the savannah and just don't cut it in the modern world, and kids have to UNLEARN their basic intuitions about those things. You can make learning those things fun, but it takes a lot of work and skill to do so. Sean

  17. Rating system by mdielmann · · Score: 3, Funny

    I give an instant 9/10 to any book that puts politician and "flickering mind" in the same sentence.

    --
    Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
  18. Seen in real life by Ra5pu7in · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have watched my children being taught with computers in the classroom, computers in a separated "lab", and computers at home. Much of what the author mentions is very real to me.

    The amount of time spent changing font types, font sizes, paragraph alignment, etc. is added time they could have avoided. Typing speed is a severe limiter for a long report -- and "teacher says it has to be typed/printed". Spell-check and grammar checks give an impression that they don't need to check their own work. I end up reviewing and marking the errors to make them correct them.

    The educational software that they found so fun when they were younger fit into two categories - something they already knew and was easy OR something they hadn't learned yet and had to ask for help with. There was no actual instruction on HOW to do things - just little games using the skills.

    ========

    Perhaps the scariest offshoot of this is how computers and software are implemented everywhere else (businesses and government). I've seen people spend hours working on a document that should have taken them 20 minutes. I've seen people who don't bother knowing how to speak or spell because the word-processor will do it for them. I work with people who claim the computer makes them more productive -- when I also know they spend more than 50% of their day online surfing sites completely unrelated to their job and get less done in the 50% they actually do work.

    I'm not a Luddite by any means - I use my computers for maximizing my productivity. I even try to teach my children how to avoid the pitfalls by making them hand-write their rough drafts, research from books, and have a preset format that is used for all documents.

    --
    I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
  19. No credible results in 20 years... by phkamp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the 20 years I have followed computers as educational tools, I have yet to see a single credible (ie: not vendor paid) study which showed a benefit from using computers to teach normal kids normal subjects.

    Once we get into special areas, things change.

    For instance there have been many studies which show huge benefits to below average kids, where the computer can be used to implement repetitive teaching techniques.

    Similar positive results have been documented for fringe topics and above average students.

    Most of these fringe areas can be reduced to the simple phenomena of the computer being used to make up for a teacher shortage. None of the studies I have seen argues that the results are different from what would have happened if sufficient teachers where available to implement the same amount of teaching.

    But still not one single study have shown a consistent, tangible benefit for normal kids in the normal basic subjects {$native_language, math, science}

    Many studies and reports have pointed out tangible damage.

    Considering how much money has been spent, that is a pretty disturbing scientific basis.

    Anectodal evidence is distributed slightly different: All the good news is about things which are going to happen. Once the computer have been rolled in, we practically never hear good news.

    Combine this situation with the recent study out of Chicago which documented that for each hour of television toddlers watched per day, they had 10% higher risk of ADD at age 7, and we have a really disturbing situation at our hands.

    Poul-Henning

    PS: And as somebody who is old enough to have written a lot of text on a type-writer, I can personally attest that it makes you think a lot more about the text before you write.

    --
    Poul-Henning Kamp -- FreeBSD since before it was called that...
  20. Re:Distance learning by moosemoose · · Score: 3, Interesting
    get real. money has absolutely zilch to do with education. I send my children to private school. I spend approximately $6,000 per year per child. The public school system in California, OTOH, spends approximately $9,300 per student. effectively, the fact that i do not send my children to public school should free up another $18,600 for those that do.

    the public schools in my district have higher paid teachers and vastly superior facilities (i mean its not even close) compared to the private school. in spite of the fact that the private school spends 2/3rds of the public school (per student) the private school produces students that consistantly score 2 grade levels above the national average in reading and math on the standford 9 tests. OTOH, 80% of california public schools fail to achieve the national average for the grade level they are teaching and the public schools in my district score in the botton 25% of all california schools.

    the bottom line? it's the parents and not the schools or the money put into schools that insure academic achievment. the dictionary is used in my home almost daily. reading, math and thinking are part of our daily home life and probably part of the daily home life of the other parents sending their children to the private school. NO amount of funding will produce a level of academic achievment which will come close to that of students whose parents really really really give a shit about education. talking about educational funding is a lot like arguing about the size of the firehose while the orphanage burns. it completely ignores the real problem. the educational crisis is a cultural problem, not an economic problem.

    --
    the real evil is not what people think - its how people think
  21. EDUCATION IS NOT SCHOOL. by LionKimbro · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Yesterday, I learned all about Crypto from Wikipedia. I learned about:

    • block vs. stream cyphers
    • symmetric key cryptography and public key crpytography
    • diffusion
    • about the use of of Crypto in the US Civil War.
    • Claude Shannon


    Because of this, I am likely to make better decisions about cryptography. I will not confuse a stream cypher with a one time pad.

    Now:

    • Who are my teachers?
    • Did technology help them teach me something?
    • Did open-source help?


    More and more, my education is coming from the Internet.

    I believe we need to rethink the whole concept of school, and what it is for.
  22. The neglected Fourth 'R'... by Cerebus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Rhetoric.

    The benefit of a classical education.

    --
    -- Cerebus