Toronto Open Source Conference Report

derrickoswald writes "Today's Ottawa Citizen is running a report in the TechWeekly section on the recent open source conference in Toronto organized by U of T's interdisciplinary Knowledge Media Design Institute and last month's Real World Linux trade show. It highlights the extremely poor Extremadura region of Spain's success story using open source to bootstrap themselves technologically. Quotes from FOSS luminaries include: 'Who controls the software, controls life. Well, it had better us. That's the real political meaning of the free software movement,' said Eben Moglen. Open source 'was the default way you built Internet Infrastructure. You wrote code and released it without trying to commercialize and monetize it,' said Brian Behldendorf." Newsforge (also part of OSDN) has a series of reports on the conference: Day 1, Day 2, Day 3.

Comments

So let me get this straight...

[Power Everywhere]

Open Source software is about controlling life? I wonder that was what RMS was really thinking.

Re:So let me get this straight...

[Dav3K]

Open Source software is about controlling life... on the internet.

Better now?

aaah...

[imidazole2]

"They have adopted entirely the ideology of freedom that is part of this software movement," said Ghosh, program leader at the International Institute of Infonomics

I couldnt have said it better....

PowerPoint?

[Anonymous Coward]

PowerPoint was required
Behlendorf led off with a comment that he is not used to PowerPoint -- the presentation software of choice for the conference, which is running Windows XP -- and apologized in advance if the PowerPoint requirement caused him to slip up, because he said he is used to the OpenOffice.org variant of the software.

Any idea why PowerPoint/XP were chosen in the first place, seeing as it's an OpenSource conference?

Re:PowerPoint?

[DrEldarion]

Well, people always say they want Microsoft to go open-source... Someone just intepreted it the wrong way.

Re:PowerPoint?

[Emunix]

Yeah... all of our conference spaces at U of T are equipped with XP and PowerPoint and I doubt our techs were going to bother switching for the conference when they'll need to load XP and PowerPoint again for summer section professors who are used to PowerPoint.

Re:PowerPoint?

[Cecil]

Because, while the people with PDF files, OpenOffice presentations, and such were mostly amenable to either converting them to PowerPoint, or simply using their own computers, the majority of the presenters could not/would not use anything other than PowerPoint.

Remember that people from all walks of open-source life were at this conference, including Microsoft's manager of their Shared Source initiative, government officials, non-technical people, even people who were basically arguing against F/OSS.

Still, the irony did not go unnoticed. I heard all sorts of people mentioning it with varying levels of amusement.

Of course, it seems relevant to note that without exception, the very best speakers did not use any presentation software at all. Some of them, Dr. Moglen included, didn't even have notes.

Re:PowerPoint?

[Chemicalscum]

All they had to do was install Acrobat Reader and Openoffice on their existing Windows XP machines then they could show PDF's and OOo Impress Presentations. Its pretty damned incompetent that all their machines don't have Reader installed as a default. The machines would still be ready for your summer section professors to show their ppt's only they would just have more capabilities.

How about the mathematicians and physicists at U of T don't they use LaTex and convert their PS to PDF for presentations like in the rest of the world. Still while I was a TA at Mac we didn't have that high opinion of how they ran things at U of T.

Re:PowerPoint?

[Qwavel]

I'm sorry but the answer seems totally obvious to me.

What percentage of desktops use Linux? And how about OO?

Windows and MSOffice are the default. Even open-source advocates have to use them sometimes. My friends send me Word documents as if they were text. It's called a monopoly.

So when UofT is deciding what software to support for their conference fascilities, what do you think they are going to choose? Yes, perhaps they could make an exception for one conference, but that would be an extra cost (breaking a monopoly is very hard).

But if you want to complain about the facilities, how about this? It was bloody hot in there on Monday afternoon! I realize that it was an unusually hot day, but this is a modern building and hot days happen. And why were there only outlets in the first two rows, given that this is the (new) computer science building. Notebook batteries don't last all day.

But, in spite of these minor quibles, I learned a lot, and I plan to re-watch some of the better presentations later (the whole thing was taped).

The Messiah

[Anonymous Coward]

Who controls the software, controls life.

Does that mike Linus the Kwisatz Haderach?

Re:The Messiah

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on how you look at it. Since "the ability to destroy a thing is to control a thing" this could just a easily be said of Bill G.

Patchy?

[Otter]

Behlendorf's specific experience comes from his background with the Apache project. Apache, he told the audience, was founded on top of the NCSA Web server code which was licensed as what amounted to public domain -- with credit. Eight developers wanted to combine their patches for the NCSA Web server together; thus Apache's name (apache = A Patchy Web server).

Gee, Brian -- you and apache.org may want to compare notes on this one.

Re:Patchy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your cite on the apache.org website and the quote from the article are not in conflict. They just have different points of emphasis. Both talk about "a patchy web server." Since I was there when it happened (pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name, but what's really puzzling you is the nature of my game) I can tell you definitively that the pun came first.

Re:Patchy?

[shoppa]

And CERN (birthplace of the web yadda yadda yadda) had long been using PATCHY as a way of distribing software patches since the mid-70's.

Be careful when you claim that "X" came first or second or third, because "X" has been used for umpteen different products (some related,some not) before you ever came along.

Re:Toronto SUCKS

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, back to the family-friendly streets of LA for me... oh, wait.

Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Ninnle Linux had a booth at the Real World Linux trade show. It really impressed the crowd, what with all the free ISOs handed out.

Who controls the software, controls life

[Timesprout]

That might be true for a small number of of obsessed geeks but the majority of people dont give a monkeys about who controls software. To them its just another product and their interest ends as soon as they have finished reading their email or their computer controlled car tells them it needs an oil change.

Re:Who controls the software, controls life

[PMuse]

That might be true for a small number of of obsessed geeks but the majority of people dont give a monkeys about who controls software. To them its just another product and their interest ends as soon as they have finished reading their email or their computer controlled car tells them it needs an oil change.

The narod cares about the results. They care:

When their car records their driving habits and they get sued after an accident.

When they can't skip the previews/ads at the beginning of their DVDs.

When they can't afford a new computer (due to licensing fees).

When they can't get their TV hooked up right. (That is, their TV, DVD player, stereo, VCR, PVR, and computer refuse to cooperate with each other even when a 14-year-old with a PhD properly cables them together.)

When the music they bought online won't let itself be played on their portable player.

When their email provider starts putting ads in their email.

When their office administrator locks down their desktop.

When the library's SurfNanny blocks their access to a heath website or political website.

When their new "audio disc" (not CD) locks their iMac shut.

When they're forced to use Powerpoint for their presentation at a conference.

etc.

They know that they don't like some one else controlling their lives. Thing is, they usually don't get that the control of their lives is being exercised through control of software.

Re:Who controls the software, controls life

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if the majority don't care about who controls software, it doesn't protect them from from being controlled, any more than the ostrich putting its head in the sand protects the ostrich. If you are implying that the average person is a sheep destined to be controlled by corporate forces exploiting their apathy and ignorance, I couldn't agree more.

Gasp...

[carvalhao]

I am Portuguese and am currently working with a Spanish colleague who was falbbergasted when he read about the "extremely poor region of Extremadura". Hey, it looks like we're talking about sub-saarian Africa of something!

As a matter of fact, Spain is one of the best developed economies in the European Union. There may be some regions where e-development may not have reached somewhat high standards, but hold on! :)

Re:Gasp...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I shouldn't really comment since I don't live there or anywhere close by, but according to encyclopedia.com Extremdura "is poverty-ridden, with poor communications, absentee landlordism, and steady emigration."

My Guess...

[TamMan2000]

... is that the facility hosting the conferance had computers and projectors in all of the conference rooms already...

"Extremely Poor" Extremadura?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh man, I'm sure the average salary of a resident of the Extremadura province is still higher than someone living in Arkansas.

Spain is not a third-world country. It's one of the wealthiest nations in the world. Which is way the terrorists hate it.

Re:"Extremely Poor" Extremadura?

[YrWrstNtmr]

Not knocking Spain (I lived there 3 years and LOVE it), but with an average income ~70% of the EU average, and Extremadura being the poorest region of Spain, and unemployment running at near 30%, 'extremely poor' might well be a valid descriptor.

However, they did win a 2004 European Regional Action Award with their GNU/LinEX project.

Hopefully, more projects like this will help them boost their economy.

Re:"Extremely Poor" Extremadura?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, Extremadura is a bit of a blackhole in Spain, and Spain is already one of the not-so-well-off countries in the EU, with an average income slightly above 80% of the EU-15 average - check your statistics. In fact, Extremadura has a GDP per capita of close to $12000, which falls short of half the EU-15 average. Compared to its neighbouring regions, it is "extremely poor". Rating it as such however, is disrespectful with the rest of the world. To give you some perspective, here go 2 comparisons on GDP per capita: Mexico: $8900 India: $2600. Just 2 cents from an insider.

Re:"Extremely Poor" Extremadura?

[Anonymous Coward]

For some historical perspective, Extremadura is where lots of the adventurers who expanded Spain's territory in the New World came from. People like Pizzaro, Cortez, ...etc, and hence it is named "Tierra de Conquistadores" (Land of the Conquerors).

> It's one of the wealthiest nations in
> the world.

The nation may be wealthy compared to India or Peru. But it is not as wealthy as Germany or Britian for example.

> Which is way the terrorists hate it.

You mean Al Qaeda and company?
Must have been listening to G. W. Bush a lot, huh?
Could the fact that Aznar send troops to join the invasion of Iraq have anything remotely related to being a target for terrorists?

Or do you mean ETA/Basque separatists?
Do they hate the rest of Spain because it is "one of the wealthiest nations"?

Either way, I do not buy it.

Poor success?

[Anonymous Coward]

"It highlights the extremely poor Extremadura region of Spain's success story using open source to bootstrap themselves technologically."

Maybe I took my dumb pills today but I thought it meant that the region had poor success.

A current best selling book is about punctuation. It evokes the picture of a gun-toting panda. Everyone knows that a panda eats shoots and leaves.

Heh. Not.

[brunes69]

Computer software *does* control your life.

For the vast majority of people in inddustrialized countries, softwate controls how they get paid, how the bank maanges their money, how companies track their habits, how they buy goods and services, how their cars work, how *they* work, how they get to work, how they have fun, how they communicate. It controls nearly every piec eof equipment in the modern military. Getting through a day without interacting with a piece of software is near impossible unless you're on a caomping trip in the middle of the woods.

Pretty soon, software is going to be controlling your whole household. It's going to control every applianc ein the house. It's going to control your security system. It's going to control all communications in and out of that house, and it will all be unified.

So here is the doomsday scenario - in 25-30 years, when this is all in place, if one monopoly controls all this software, they *control society*. All they have to do is hide some backdoors well enough to slip through detection and they have it made. Who would be there to stop them? Anyone who spoke out on any public forum is automatically detected and flagged as a terrorist in the national database.

Open Source software, especially for anything at the national infastructure / military level, should be *paramount* on people's mids. The only reason it is not is an educational one. Us people in the know really need to get the word out on why this is important, because as software becomes mroe powerful, we're treading downa slippery slope.

Re:Heh. Not.

[Weh]

don't worry, in 30 years we will start running out of fossil fuels and nobody will be able to power all those computers.

Re:Heh. Not.

[Frizzle Fry]

You could right a similar rant about lots of things. This only sounds compelling to you because you work with or particularly care about software. It's hard to run computers (or do lots of things) without electiricty. Should I write you a rant about how we must beware of the electric companies or they will RULE THE WORLD? I can't function without food. I eat food every day. So do lots of people. Does this mean that farmers are all-powerful and must be feared becuase they can user their power to *control society*? Just because you care about software, doesn't mean it needs to be such an important issue to everyone. I know my parents don't care much about software, but would tell you that education and the medical profession are super-important, and in a sense they would be right. Outside of slashdot, software is not the most pressing issue the world faces.

Chiang Here!

[Anonymous Coward]

I able to send coded message using kernel in Red Flag OS. OS will take over computer of someone rich in the USofA and post standard hTML form on /.

Me clever. Now please help me. I am hungry and do not want to work in factory. Can someone send money or outsource job to me? Thanks you very much.

Wow

[Curtman]

• Free software -- software that can be freely copied, modified, and re-distributed by its users (and often software which is free of charge) -- is inextricably bound with personal freedom, the loftiest speakers say.

I'm shocked. Printed media that actually described free software properly. Props to Ottawa Citizen.

Response

[Anonymous Coward]

Sir, unlike your facts, the GNAA members are all straight.

Have a good day.

Re:Control

[Curtman]

Anyone for an open source energy production facility?

Imagine a beowulf cluster of those!

Whoa

[Short Circuit]

Matusow went on to make a point about Red Hat's corporate Linux licensing, saying that Red Hat has a per-CPU licensing scheme with an auditing clause in the contract, and that client companies could not modify the (GPL'd) code for risk mitigation reasons on Red Hat's part.

Either that's a "damn lie," or Red Hat has some explaining to do on the part of restricting GPL'd code.

Re:Whoa

[Lao-Tzu]

Robert Young commented on this, saying that Jason Matusow made more claims about Red Hat's business model than he did himself, and this was during the panel about "Open Source business models."

Many of Jason's comments during his presentation were misleading or outright false.

Re:Whoa

[Anonymous Coward]

I think what eh measn is that a company will lose support if they start to modify code and replace redhat's stock kernel/packages/etc...

From Redhat's point of view this makes sense. Would you want to support a server that was compiled with all kind sof odd options or gcc optimizations?

Re:Whoa

[Frizzle Fry]

Would you care to explain why? This sounds like a reasonable clause for the contract. You are paying them to provide you support for the software they provide, not software you write (or break) yourself. Otherwise you could "modify" it by adding massive new functionality and then say that they had to support your new code.

Re:Whoa

[Short Circuit]

I got "mitigation" and "litigation" crossed. Mitigation makes sense...not litigation.

Quotes on "controlling" things

[Apostata]

'Who controls the software, controls life.' - Eben Moglen

'He who controls the spice, controls the universe!' - Baron Harkonnen, Dune

Re:Quotes on "controlling" things

[Anonymous Coward]

'He who can destroy a thing, controls it.' -- Paul Muad'Dib.

Guess this means the virus authors deleting home directories are the ones that are really in charge.

Re:Quotes on "controlling" things

[Magada]

Nice point, provided you provide some context w/it. There is tension between that and the better-known utterance "The spice must flow". Maintaining control over software without impeding its distribution and development is the fine line all producers of software, be they corporate or FOSS, must tread.

Controlling software has gotten FOSS geeks where?

[swb]

Last I checked, the FOSS geeks control very little. People who don't know/care about controlling software seem to be increasing the control they do have exponentially.

What controls life, will be controlled

[persaud]

Be it energy or open-source software or broadband or rice genomes. If an entity, artifact or class of artifacts becomes a control nexus, it becomes a vehicle for the transition of incumbent power.

s/open source/public-controlled/

[Short Circuit]

Anyone for an open source energy production facility?

I think you're looking for the phrase "public-controlled." Similar in meaning, but different in application.

Re:Toronto SUCKS

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's your family-friendly streets of LA:

LA Gargoyles

Who controls the software, controls life

[cagle_.25]

That might be true for a small number of of obsessed geeks but the majority of people dont give a monkeys about who controls software.

They ought to give a monkey's $BODYPART about control. Condsider:

Software controls whether or not my car passes vehicle emmissions inspections. Someone who fails inspections will *never* know whether he really failed or whether he's being ripped off.

Software controls whether or not I'm flagged as a terrorist on a flight.

Software controls flow of goods and services around the world.

Software controls my bank account balances, and

Software may very well tally votes in the next election.

I want a non-vested party to be able to audit the code that controls those things.

Egypt: Land of the Sand Niggers

[Anonymous Coward]

What do get when all your country has is sand and niggers? Moslem Pigs. Sand Niggers.

freedom and software

[Anonymous Coward]

People I've spoken to that don't care about free software often don't care about free speech either. Believe it or not there are people who have a "meh, people don't say anything important anyway" attitude to free speech. Wanting your computer to just work without worrying about the EULA is in some ways like wanting to just live your life without worrying about your country's government.

The Free Software is for people who like freedom or like software. If you like both, then it's right up your ally.

Free Ninnle ISO's (as in speech and beer)

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, I got one of those! Kewl!

Ninnle forever!

Toronto GOSLING

[nostriluu]

I am involved in organizing the Toronto GOSLING (getting open source into government). If you are interested in being involved, please email me at vid_goslingslashdot@zooid.org.

Re:Toronto SUCKS

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, one knifing and a highly minimal death rate from a disease which is know completely ignored results in the demise of a city.

By that logic, the entire continent of North America is a waste.

Twat.

Accountants?

[b100dian]

I wonder how would one manage to get the accountants to hear/read of these "free as in freedom" ideas - for the ones that I came to know don't give a s*** about quality of software either.

computers and software...

[zogger]

... pretty much control everything unless you are living extremely primitive out in the wild someplace. Mod-erne life as we know it is totally enmeshed in it, so ya, open source is going to be an even more powerful aspect to all our lives in the future. Even non computerised "life" interacts with computerised life, if you think about it. All our goods and services are getting more and more dependent on it, it's critical part of it now. and it sure didn't take very long, either, we went from just a few computers on the planet to now there are untold billions of them, everywhere, doing so many things it's amazing, especially to people who have watched it completely happen.

Prices have dropped, technology quality and diversity have risen dramatically, and isn't this what we wanted, anyway, that eventually smart machines would take over all the mundane, leaving the humans to REALLY expand and explore, both inside themselves and out into space? Looking at it in that aspect, it seems to be the goal, automate and computerize to the extenet that we no longer have to struggle to just live, it's a great emancipator, part deux. So, the closer we can get to "free" with computers and software, the better, IMO.

liquid or solid?

[zogger]

I think we'll run out of cheap for civilians liquid petroleum productrs well before 30 years, it will be so expensive in terms of BTUS to get more BTUs only the worlds ultra rich and some governments will use it. They will force-switch us peons back to coal, and build more nukes, along with mass adoption of technologies like wind generators, etc. There's hundreds of years of coal left, heck, just one field in utah has enough for the entire planet for centuries, and humans will wind up burning all of it,along with extracting petroleum from tar sands, etc, probably using solar heat in the deserts for extraction, and sea water for the carrier for the slurry. You'll see interest in air pollution drop when fuel costs become 75% of peoples budgets, given everything has to be still manufactured and transported, using SOMETHING for the energy source. and I think that point could come within 15 years or so. Peak oil in all the significant fields outside of the middle east has ALREADY occurred.

Re:Toronto GOSLING: push govt to use XML, not Word

[Anonymous Coward]

One particular point to concentrate on in working
with government: instruct the public service to format all documents
accessible under a Freedom of Information Act as tagged ASCII.
(20th-century HTML and other SGML applications,
and again contemporary XHTML and
other XML applications, are thus
kosher, as are Open Office XML-formatted
word processor files. But the native M$oft Word binary formats are not
kosher.) M$oft will thereby be pressured to make its XP Office capable
of saving in an XML format, and thus to make its Office interoperable
with OpenOffice. - Interestingly,
the M$oft guy at this week's Toronto free/libre s/ware conference
is reported as skilfully dodging the question whether M$oft CURRENTLY
plans to let its Office suite save documents as XML. - If we tolerate
closed word-processor formats in government, we put our civil liberties
under threat, since we open the door to content revocation and digital
fingerprinting. That grim pair of KGB surveillance-society scenarios is
spelled out by Prof. Ross Anderson in the Computer Laboratory at
Cambridge University (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/), and
also in my essay 'No-Frills GNU/Linux: Philosophical Foundations'
(in the 'Literary' section of my http://www.metascientia.com).

they forgot the power cord

[Anonymous Coward]

"Who controls the power cord controls software and Who controls the software, controls life..."

What a bunch of clowns... what they were looking to make that a famous quote, who said those where luminaries?. is software god damnit is not oxigen or water which ARE necessaries for the real life.

These FOSS are just FUSS.

NEXT!!!!!!...........

GPL

[Psymunn]

'This GPL brings good luck to all software developers who use it. One guy used GPL software and licensed it under seomthing else and was eaten by a despondent goat with rabbies. One girl forked GPL software and keeped the license and she met the man of her dreams later that day and had Opensource children (they released videos of the conseption on teh internet). Pass on your GPL software to 10 of your closest friends and receive a millioin years awesome luck'

in all seriousness though, GPL is a great thing and is an essential tool in preserving freedom of information. it also happens to be the most successful chain letter ever

BSDCan is today!

[barks]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned that BSDCan started today at the University of Ottawa. If I wasn't working this weekend I would've gone (I think I'm only 3 or 4 hours away):(.

Er....

[brunes69]

Your argument makes 0 sense. The whole point of what I was saying is monopolies are bad, when one company controls most of the worlds software it is bad. I did not say anything about "software companies" in general, I said when one company rules a market, and it is a market everyone depends on, then that one company *does* control your life. Such a company could, and would, manipulate global politics, whatever. No one could stop them.

The examples you gave are all markets with a) tons of competion, and b) are geographically diverse. That is, the same power companies don't control the power in California, Maine, and the UK. But the same software companies do. And if they run rampantly unchecked...

Clean water. Food. Roof over head.

[fantomas]

"Open Source software...should be *paramount* on people's mids."

It's good we've got geeks to worry about this. By all means push hard on this issue - and use your skills to help improve the world - but for a large number of people in the world paramount issues in their mind are:

- can I get enough /clean water to drink

- can I get enough to eat to live

- can I find shelter

- can I be safe from war or the after effects of war

Don't forget the big issues. Some of these may be solved by software, but remember the global context.