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Upgrade Your DVD Writer to Double Layer -- Maybe
Autoversicherung writes "Even if NEC tells you its impossible, German netzine Golem is reporting hackers have created an updated, unofficial version of the firmware providing DVD+DL (Double Layer) capabilities. Currently model 2100A and 2500A are patchable, more will hopefully follow soon.
How cool, this enables me to skip an update cycle for burners!!" It's always fun to use the fish, and sometimes to void your warranty.
Now lets get crackin on patches for sony's DRU-series!
From http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pag econtent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.golem.de%2F0405%2F31 325.html&lp=de_en
Thus nevertheless? Firmware makes NEC DVD burners dual Layer able
Unofficial firmware is to make 2100A and 2500A the 2510A
With a firmware of the not yet available dual Layer DVD burner NEC 2510A emerged in the net now also its are to be able to describe only single Layer able predecessors NEC 2100A and 2500A DVD+R DL media with up to 8,5 GByte data. There it the 2500A-Modelle already for under 100, - euro gives, would be this a very inexpensive, but not revaluation of the DVD burners mentioned which can be enjoyed without caution.
The beta firmware unauthorized of NEC does not only provide for a warranty loss, it required also that that is operated in each case to flashende drive assembly as master. In the forum of RPC1.org, where the first discussion started around the firmware, some daring firmware Flasher reported that the drive assembly LED constantly flashed and the drive assembly drawer came up for the start - in these cases the DVD burners were operated as Slave.
Since DVD+R DL media with 8,5 GByte are at least available storage location at present not yet in the trade and will be more expensive at the beginning of also clearly than the conventional single Layer media (4.3 GByte), trying of the modified firmware out is meaningful at this time for the few users. Besides it is not clear whether each drive assembly brings the necessary laser quality for successful DVD+R DL recording procedures with itself, because the requirements for the optics are somewhat higher.
On CDRInfo.com already a first DL function test was published - the DL medium was described and the used software stopped with 99 per cent write progress - which medium has nevertheless functioned. First signal quality tests would have resulted in partly good, partly strange values, so that one may be strained whether 2100A and 2500A in each case will work as duly functioning DL DVD burners - and the described DVD+R DL media to DVD Playern are as compatible. Conventional DVD media were correctly described with the 2510A-Firmware, how is to be reread in the rpc1.org-Forum.
That, which it itches now in the fingers to try the DL firmware out it should realize itself the risks, which read guidance of the respective offziellen or unofficial firmware designs exactly and which to flashende drive assembly as alone as possible (e.g. with taken off Slave) as masters operate. There - as already written - so far no DVD+R DL media to buy are, should daring ones perhaps better after others, every now and then not less interesting changed firmware designs on rpc1.org or herrie.org umschauen itself. Otherwise the DL firmware changed by the "The Dangerous Brothers" is to the Download on rpc1.org. (ck)
Just think about all, the extra drives sold, when all the Uber Mensch, fry thier drives, writing the firmware to crap.
My cat's picked up a Hammer. HEY! Put down that Hammer. Put Down that Hamm...THUNK!
Not that anyone would bother to RTA :) but
here it is in English
NEC 8x DVD Burner $81 - Free Double Layer Conversion 12-May-04
newegg has the NEC 8X Beige DVD+RW/-RW Drive, Model ND-2500A, OEM Bulk packed for $81.50 free shipping. No rebates. Click Thru to see new price.
Hack it into a NEC 2510A DVD+R Double Layer burner! (Thanks Ken) Save $120 over a new Double layer burner!
Here's a link to the article linked by techbargains.
And here's a link to a page with the firmware (scroll down to NEC 2500).
- JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Using the firmware of the soon-to-be-released Dual Layer NEC 2510A DVD burner, it is possible to reprogram the single-layer NEC 2100A and 2500A DVD burners in order to record up to 8.5GB of data. The 2500A sells for under 100 euro, which makes this a very inexensive solution, but this is not without risk.
/not karma whoring
The beta firmware is not authorized by NEC, and will void your warranty. Further, it requires that the drive be operated as "master" with no "slave" present. On the RPC1.org forums, users have reported that the LEDs constantly flashed and the DVD drawer would keep opening up--but in these cases, the drive was set as "slave."
Since 8.5GB dual layer DVD+R media is not readily available, and when it becomes more widely available will be far more expensive than 4.3GB single-layer media, this modified firmware is of interest only to a few users. It is also not clear whether the laser assembly has the necessary laser quality for successful DVD+R dual-layer recording, because the optics requirements are more strict.
CDRInfo.com has published a first test, finding that the software stopped recording a dual layer disc after 99%, but the disc nonetheless functioned. Initial tests of the signal quality were mixed, which makes it difficult to say whether or not the 2100A and 2500A can work as true dual layer DVD burners, or whether the media used was simply incompatible. Convenitional single-layer DVD media worked fine with the 2510A firmware.
Those who are antsy to try the new dual layer firmware should be aware of the risk, and understand that with the unofficial firmware their drive will only operate as a "master" (without a "slave" present). And, as already mentioned, there is DVD+R dual-layer media is difficult to buy. But, for the daring, you can keep apprised of new firmware on rcp1.org and herrie.org. The modified firmware, created by "The Dangerous Brothers," is available for download on rpc1.org.
between the babelfish translation of the article, and a few people's posts, that this is a case of "you get what you pay for." If NEC says you can't do it, maybe it's because you can't do it reliably; that seems to be the case here. I would question the feasibility of taking hardware designed for single-layer disks and using it for dual-layer burns, and indeed the article points out (in broken, babelfished English, but as best I can tell) that the resulting drives are flaky at best. My advice, though I support the development of open/third-party firmware in general, would be to skip this upgrade and go buy the real thing.
www.cdrinfo.com
:)
The firmware page
Two forum threads about upgrading your NEC-drive
How about someone hax0r the lite-on dvd rw drives? Being as they are so cheap these days, it would make for an even better deal.
You're nothing; like me.
Dual layer is when your dvd player has a slight pause where the screen freezes. That is when it is changing layers.
Now that this news is now on /. (and due to the basic economics principle of supply and demand), this new burner's price is going to skyrocket, or NEC is going to go to a measure that's sure to *cough*happen*cough* piss people off, discontinuation.
-Xeon
Real programmers can write assembly code in any language. -- Larry Wall
So if I have this strait this is a unsupported beta firmware hack to make a dvd drive write with unknown success to a dual layer media which isn't even available yet, will void your warrenty anyway and may kill your drive?
Cool! Sorry I'm a sucker for punkrock sollutions.
Don't mess with the bunny, outsideworld.org
You got a point there. Writable discs have not always worked with all readers. Though they have been getting better about that. I think dual layer writable discs might have some problems.
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
In a store next to you, the new and amazing DVD Perforator.
This amazing new product allows you to punch a hole through the DVD, allowing you to use BOTH sides of the media. Use your Single-Side as Double-Side disks without paying extra.
Available in 5"1/4 and 3"1/2 versions.
-
Roses are #FF0000, Violets are #0000FF, find / -name '*base*' |xargs chown -R us && mv zig greatjustice
Ok, I'll bite...
Ummm... regarding your non purchase of a portable MP3 player or car stereo, why don't you go to a place where they sell these products and take a few mp3s with you and try them out? Seems like an obvious solution to me...
Score: -1, Paranoid Troll
If I point out that you are incorrect, making me a foe does not make you any more correct.
A report that people who use hacks to upgrade their burners produce DVD's that don't last 100 years and are full of errors.
:-)
And people will be *suprised* to read this. Gasp, hacked dual layer DVD's don't last forever!
And Slashdot will report on this. Once a month. For a year.
This just sounds like trouble.
The 1300 & 2500 are virtually identical, except that the latter is twice as fast as the former; and according to the forums on 2510, it is no different in design than the 2500. Although NEC would probably never release any firmware that would allow 1300 users to upgrade to 2500/2510, its simply a matter of time before someone back-ports the latest drivers to the 1300.
Just an uninformed opinion from someone too lazy to RTFA, but I wonder if this is anything like Intel underclocking chips to keep the supply of fast chips low. You know, NEC maybe ships a bunch of dual layer capible drives as single layer drivers to keep the market price up? I plan on getting either a Pioneer or Sony branded drive anyways (yeah, I know they all come from more or less the same few shops, but I've just had less trouble with either of those two brands in the past). Still, if this is what's going on, I like to see companies get bit in the rear for this sort of thing.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Wrong double layer firmware for NEC burner
Basically NEC insists that the laser needs calibration for such kind of update.
Another point is that the media can identify itself as "DVD ROM" or "DVD+R DL". The newer "DVD+R DL" seems to cause trouble with DVD Video Players.
This was a brilliant troll. I take my hat off to you. You even managed to get modded up for it.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
US$13 for 8.5Gig. CD-r discs are around US$0.50 each depending on quantity. Given that my Plexwriter Premium can almost fit 1Gig on a CD-r, DVD-DLs are roughly 3x the price per MB. Much as I enjoy being an early adopter (*cough*), I think I'll wait until the price per MB comes down to around US$1.
Yes. And aside from the pure technical issues, Hollywood simply does not want us to have a compatible double-layer video medium for obvious reasons... I'll believe it when I see it!
How shocking. Im surprised you have a p.c. at all. This is the most incredibly paranoid post I've ever seen, even by slashdot standards. Why wouldnt you be able to play your mp3s on a car mps player ? You can have complete control over them, and the player is designed to play mp3s.
The ipod works fine with 2000, thats what i'm doing, although I am running it on a machine that was designed this side of the cold war. For your flash mp3 keychain, just buy a conpactflash card, and one of the mp3 players that take them. Whatever you do, dont buy secure digital, you'll be looking over your shoulder for the RIAA the whole time.
As for DVD Ram, you unfortunately have no idea what you are talking about. It is no more random access that any of the other formats. Its loing the race because the discs it burns are expensive to manufacture, and incompatible with many readers. Educate yourself before depriving yourself of a DVD burner.
As for the cost of CDRs, educate yourself again. In the UK I pay about 25p / GB for CDR or DVD-R. For backup purposes I now hae to burn 1/5 the number of discs. 9 DVDs each month rather than 45 CDs. An as for holding of buying a DVD burner for a few months until they are a larger, you are mad.
Do you really think there will ever a an affordable backup solution that will put all your data on a single throwaway disc ? Your data, and that created by m$ grows at the same rate as backup storage.
No I agree that DRM is evil, but you really should lighten up a little. Sony are not going to turn the DRM on in their burners at a later date. How the hell could they. Will they bang my door down and hijack my pc ? Does my burner have a secret net connection ? Its just a dumb drive using a standard windows 2000 driver.
Wake up, youll enjoy life a lot more.
Watch out for the black helicopters though !
It can't have escaped your notice that digital cameras and MP3 players have been moving away from Smartmedia and the older flash memory formats onto xD, SD and Memory Stick. Hmm, a new format that includes encryption and DRM. Why would I want my holiday snapshots encrypted and protected by DRM? I don't take those kind of holidays...
Now, where's my tinfoil...
Actually I have an expensive dvd player that I got back when nobody had one. It even has component out and a built in 5.1 decoder. No progressive scan though, it wasn't around yet.
I'd just like to clear up a small misconception.
Many drives do indeed run more slowly when they detect a video dvd (though such detection is a pain - all you can really trigger off of is CSS protection, and you get non-css video discs too)
The reason for this, however is nothing sinister. It's just that they know that the host application probably wants the data at 1x and so they favour low heat, low noise and more reliable reading over high data rates.
Soemthing similar is done when playing audio CDs.
Of course, more intelligent firmware simply acts on the rate at which the host requests data. This does rely on the host application being intelligent and not trying to buffer an entire 4gig dvd, though.
I'm afraid I don't quite follow. DVD burners that are currently available have absolutely no copy restriction capabilities on media they write.
The only possible restriction is region-coding when reading commercial DVDs, and for most people that isn't much of an issue anyway (they're easily patch-able, or they just watch stuff from their own region anyway).
DVD-R drives are DIRT cheap. There's no reason to buy a CD burner these days instead of a DVD-R IMHO.
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
While i love rpc1.org (been using their custom firmware for my nec-1300A with good results), this sounds more like a mostly untested, evil kludge of a hack. They _might_ be able to stabilize it, but i for one don't welcome our new faster-dvd burning overlords. The last thing you want is a fast deteriorating 2nd layer that dvd players will choke on, and data will become corrupt faster than you can say "Wow, these blanks were expensive". And all for what, the convenience of not having to swap out your pirated copy of lotr halfway through the big smoochy scene between aragorn & that elf chick. I'll keep using my old, boring as fuck single layer burner for now.
Will wank off Linus Torvalds for fame.
Even with a decent-sized buffer (by consumer player standards), the DVD itself has to be mastered in such a way as to facilitate a quick layer change. For example, using opposite-track rather than parallel-track encoding, and switching to a lower bit rate just before the layer change so the read-ahead buffer can have a chance to be filled with more post-layer change frames.
On PC DVD players, this is less of an issue because the drives are fast enough (and RAM plentiful enough) that you can afford to read far enough ahead that you eliminate any chance of layer change glitch, but there are few consumer players with drive speed and buffers that rival what even a low-end PC can accomplish.
There are no karma whores, only moderation johns
You're mad. I drew the line when they introduced DRM onto C64 cassette tapes. I'll stick with my trusty Texas Instruments pocket calculator, thank you very much.
I own an NEC1300A 4xDVD +/- rewriter. The 1300A is *very* sensitive about which media you use. I bought some name brand DVD-R's from PCWorld when I first bought the drive a year ago and they wouldn't work. I then bought 25 cheap blank disks and they didn't work either. I thought the drive was faulty, until I bought the Ritek G04 dye (purple) disks. They work like a charm and I've had no problems since.
Do these same problems exist on the 2500? (I assume yes, since they are supposed to be the same drive, except the 2500 is faster). If so, I imagine it's going to be a PITA to get this drive burning reliably with hacked firmware and potentially incompatile disks.
ermm... I have had an mp3 player in my car for two and a half years now (a $300 Kenwood if you must know [now $200]) and the only problem I have had with it so far is that it won't play copy protected CDs, as these have a data track on them which throws the player.
The way around that, of course, is to rip them to mp3 and burn them back to an ISO formatted disk, along with another 13 hours, or so, of music
I've never shoed a horse, but I once told a donkey to piss off!
Babelfish translates: There it the 2500A-Modelle already for under 100, - euro gives, would be this a very inexpensive, but not revaluation of the DVD burners mentioned which can be enjoyed without caution., which for one, is extremely hilarious and secondly conveys the exact opposite of what the German author wanted to say. The correct translation of the last half-sentence "which can be enjoyed without caution" would be "which should not be enjoyed without caution", to keep in fish style. No idea where the fish lost the extra negation.
...you're also looking at discs that simply aren't around in even small quantities yet. I heard they expected there to be a ~50$ premium on the latest ATI cards above the suggested retail price the first couple weeks. Supply and demand, baby.
Personally, I burn single-layer DVDs. Cost/MB is about the same as CDs, but I get a fraction of the disks to burn, label and keep track of. That's worth it to me. Personally, I wish removable SATA disks (like a huge floppy) would take off...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
German magazine c't wrote yesterday:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/47428
"Laut NEC funktioniert die Firnware hingegen nicht mit dem ND-2500A, da für das Bespielen einer DVD+R DL die Laseroptik genau justiert werden muss. Diese Justage müsse bei der Herstellung erfolgen und könne nachträglich nicht durchgeführt werden. Daher sei es nicht möglich, dem ND-2500A das Beschreiben einer DVD+R DL nachträglich per Firmware-Update beizubringen. Selbst wenn es vereinzelt klappen sollte, sei die Gefahr eines Fehlbrandes sehr hoch und die DL-Rohlinge würden sehr hohe Fehlerraten jenseits der Spezifikationen zeigen."
Rough translation:
According to NEC, the firmware does not work with the ND-2500A, since the laser optics have to be calibrated correctly in order to burn a DVD+R DL. This has to be done by the manufacturer, when the unit is built, and cannot be done later on. Due to this, it is not possible to enable the ND-2500A to burn a DVD+R DL via a firmware update. Even if it should work in some cases, the danger of burning a coaster would be very high and the burnt DL DVDs would show high error rates far beyond the specifications.
Don't buy a DVD burner now. Wait. Or you'll be kicking yourself.
Bought myself an 8x DVD burner about 6 months ago. Have had no problems copying DVD movies or data. I shall not kick myself.
One of the older PC brnads that's no longer around (I think it was Tandy) sold a series of computers with 256k or 512k of memory. The 256k machiens actually had 512k, but a lead or jumper on the board had been cut to make only half available. By opening the case and remaking the connection, you'd void your warranty but save several hundred dollars.
It's been rumored that currently all Asus-built ATI 9800 cards use the 9800XT chip and memory capable of supporting it. The rumor says it's just a firmware flash for any of these cards to be an XT. I'm not sure of this rumor, but it seems plausible.
I have a dual-layer burner and have been unable to find any DVD+R DL media. Kinda moots the whole point of the drive...
Anyone have a link to dual-layer blank DVD media?
I have a "Zero Policy" tolerance.
*/
Right now, we're in a window of transition towards finding a dominant medium for backing up computer hard disks. Most likely, the winner will fairly soon be: not DVD, not tape, but simply other hard disks. Right now, the minimum "nice" size for a backup device is 40GB, and by the time a recordable dye-based disc can reach that, the bar will have been raised to 80GB.
Cost is getting close to being eliminated as a factor in using hard disk as a backup media. The remaining hurdle is really a generic protective package (e.g., a little shock protection and don't expose any electronics) and the ability to walk up and plug it into any PC.
IoMega has issued their hard-disk backup medium solution, but it's slightly pricey, and strongly proprietary. Perhaps someone will start wrapping small form-factor disks in plastic with a connector that can plug into (and be powered by) either USB 2.0 or FireWire.
Within a few years, only the most low-end and casual forms of computer backup will be on DVD instead of hard disk.
I remember when I saw a similar article a few years ago, and people were pointing to a site where to upgrade my MP7040 to 7060 (4x to 6x). The flashing worked, the firmware and everything was recognized perfectly, wrote one cd, then after that nothing worked correctly, in the end, I was left with a cheezy CDROM instead of CD-RW.
Of course, maybe the drive was already on the edge of giving up and I just gave it the tap it needed to pass out, but then again, I am not going to blame anyone but myself for doing this because I knew what I was getting into.
Yes some drives have "features cutted back" but remember also that sometimes (might be or not be applicable in this case) if they are selling a drive as a "4x" and it's the same layout as an "8x", maybe there's not only capitalism in the equation, remember intel with their processor validation, etc.. it's not because we've got our 300A celeron to 450 and our dual 366MHZ BP6 motherboard to dual 550 Celerons that we'll always be that lucky.
So if anyone out there has doubts, I'd seriously suggest against going for it until you see sufficient number of people reporting that it works, because if you were doing this to prevent an upgrade cycle, you might actually force yourself into being an early adopter and that is a double loss.
Just my 0.02$
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Plextor tends to be good about updating firmware to support new formats and features, so I'm hoping they'll take care of this for us.
For instance, Plextor added the ability to read CDs in RAW mode with errors (no correction), allowing for perfect copies of copy protected CDs. I've always respected them for allowing me to make fair use copies of my CDs.