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IBM tells SCO to Put Up or Shut Up

Jeffrey Johnson writes "The whole SCO and IBM case is coming to a head with new filings from IBM accusing SCO of being 'grandiose' and saying it has 'effectively conceded' that it has no evidence of infringement. It asks for evidence to be produced or the whole case thrown out. According to experts this makes it make-or-break: either SCO has to outline exactly what the issues are with Linux or the whole sorry affair is over."

70 of 364 comments (clear)

  1. (sigh) by bigfleet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why are we even still reading these things? I'll believe it when I see it.

    1. Re:(sigh) by ductormalef · · Score: 5, Funny

      I agree. The headline should read:

      IBM tells SCO to Put Up or Shut Up for the 23rd time (this time we really mean it, but if you don't we'll wait a few months and demand it again)

      --
      The Fat Man Walks Alone
    2. Re:(sigh) by Scott+Richter · · Score: 5, Funny
      Why are we even still reading these things? I'll believe it when I see it.

      I don't know. Why are you?

    3. Re:(sigh) by Bryan+Andersen · · Score: 3, Informative

      And it looks like IBM has tacked on a legal bill to their motion for summary judgement.

  2. put up & shut up by Pikhq · · Score: 5, Funny

    How's about put up AND shut up?

    --
    echo "rm -rf ~/* ; echo "echo "Exit" ; exit" > ~/.bashrc ; exit" > ~user/.bashrc
    1. Re:put up & shut up by Precipitous · · Score: 4, Funny

      Put up AND shut up?
      Put up OR shut up?

      I'd suggest that the situation is most accurated describe by "Put up" implies "shut up", or (Put Up NAND Shut Up) NAND Put Up.

      This gives two cases returing true:
      1) Neither put up nor shut up: SCO keeps making noise, without producing evidence.

      2) Both put up and shut up.
      SCO produces all extant evidence, and they are consequently forced to shut up.

      --
      My motto: "A cat is no trade for integrity."
    2. Re:put up & shut up by cbreaker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Isn't it terrible how it's just tolerated?

      You shouldn't have to worry about being beat up, killed, or raped in prison. Being in prison is punishment enough.

      I think the powers that be prefer prison to be a terrible, terrible place because they think that it's a deterrent. Too bad these people haven't learned anything in the last... recorded history of man..

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    3. Re:put up & shut up by G27+Radio · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have a couple of friends that have spent time in prison (both for non-violent 'crimes' related to posession of certain plants.) Neither of them told any rape stories, but clearly they both needed to commit violent acts just to survive in prison--and neither of these guys were ever violent people.

      One of them spent two years in a Georgia state prison. If you could get money from the outside you could get drugs easily from the DoC officers. If someone gave you a problem and you didn't fight back, you were immediately a target for anyone there that wanted to take advantage of you. If someone beats the crap out of you, you can rat on them, but then you're marked as a rat and everyone will be after you.

      One day his watch was stolen by his cellmate and sold to another prisoner. The watch wasn't the big deal, it was the fact that everyone knew it was his watch and if he didn't do something about it, then he'd be a target from then on. So he ended up smashing his cellmate in the face with a padlock and then bashing several of his teeth out on the edge of his bunk. When they were questioned what happened both he and the guy that he beat up told the guards that he fell by accident. They still put my friend in solitary for a couple weeks, but no charges were filed against him.

      It's a wierd feeling to have someone you know to be a friendly, intelligent, non-violent person telling you a story like this like they're simply describing a bad experience with tech support. It's easy to see how US prisons are creating violent criminals out of people that weren't necessarily violent before.

      The conversation came up because he was talking about how he has to see a parole officer for the next several years. (for 10 years from the date he was released.) He said he'd never let them send him back--even if it meant they'd have to kill him to catch him.

      Maybe you worked in a prison where these type of things didn't happen, but to say that all prisons are like that is definately false. Violence is a way of life in US prisons. It's not just GA prisons either. I've talked with more than just one person that has been to prison, and known two of them well enough to know that they aren't liars. Please don't try to bury the problem by saying it doesn't happen, or that we shouldn't talk about it. That's part of the problem.

      Think about this: thousands of people go to prison for posession of marijuana every year. Very few of these people are violent. Most are no threat to anyone. And they are locked up with rapists, murderers, and people that are just mentally ill and violent because of it. Forgetting the whole matter of justice being served for a moment, what exactly is it that we are accomplishing by doing this?

  3. About damn time by robochan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You'd figure with IBM's resources, their lawyers would have been on something like this within a month - not over a year.

    --
    ...Rob
    The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
    1. Re:About damn time by Lane.exe · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Psh. Truly elegant artists know that a crushing blow is all about the right timing. They've given SCO ample time to embarrass themselves, and now they're going to sweep in with a (hopefully) final blow that will shatter poor Darl's dreams of riches.

      --
      IAALS.
    2. Re:About damn time by mckniglj · · Score: 5, Funny

      They were too busy laughing. I believe that they are just now done wiping the tears from their eyes...

    3. Re:About damn time by cybermace5 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Lawyers are paid by the hour.

      --
      ...
    4. Re:About damn time by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      final blow that will shatter poor Darl's dreams of riches.

      Well Darl was paid about $1M last year, a figure that many people (but not, one suspects, Darl) would consider riches.

      Perhaps he will consider trying to make money the old fashined way next time, you know: create a product that people actually want and sell it!

      I don't think SCO ever intended to SELL any "SCOSource" licenses -- you would expect them to register the domain name if they did, but SCO did not register it

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    5. Re:About damn time by nacturation · · Score: 3, Funny

      How is this insightful? Can you imagine the trial?

      IBM: "Your honor, I know it's only been a month and we haven't even gotten through the discovery process of gathering evidence, but how about just cut the whole thing short because it's *clearly* a waste of time."

      Judge: "Do you have any evidence to present that proves this conclusively?"

      IBM: "Um, no. But SCO has had a whole 20 business days already! That's an entire month in regular people terms! Sure, we're still fulfilling requests for evidence, but we're *sure* they won't find anything."

      Judge: "Well your certainty is not the law. Perhaps if this case were the only one before the courts and we spent 8 hours a day studying its merits, we could move on that kind of timetable. As it stands, this case sees a couple of hours here and there, so how is that sufficient time to warrant a summary judgment?"

      IBM: "But... but... Linux r0x0rs! We are teh best! Free software... SCO is teh sux0r... patents are evil... FRIST PROST! No? Hello? Anyone? Information wants to be free..."

      Judge: "Motion denied!!"

      [The judge then goes into a long rant about the judicial process and how it's there to protect all parties, and how IBM's lawyers should go back to law school and take Law 101 to learn why it's done this way.]

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    6. Re:About damn time by mkoenecke · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A brief tip: if you haven't actually paid attention to the progress of the case and know nothing about the litigation process, you'll save yourself considerable embarassment by refraining from commenting on it.

      IAAL, and I'm dumbfounded that the judge has not *already* bounced SCO's entire lawsuit for refusing to comply with two consecutive discovery orders. "20 business days?" It's already been over a year.

      --
      TANSTAAFL
  4. more importantly by nizo · · Score: 4, Funny

    We want to know when the SCO firesale starts! I need a $2000 office chair for my cat to sleep on.

    1. Re:more importantly by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Heh. The Salt Lake and Provo LUGs should get together and start a deathwatch. Basically, people would take turns outside their corporate offices, manning a sign that says, "I bid $5." Victory comes when Darl comes out and accepts the offer.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  5. Should Have Started With This by libertynews · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You would think that someone would have said 'Gee, do you guys have any EVIDENCE to support your claims?' and when they couldn't or wouldn't produce a single line of code they would have been tossed out of the courthouse on their butt. I suppose that's too close to being common sense for our over-lawyered justice system though.

    --
    Remember Lexington Green!
    1. Re:Should Have Started With This by Artega+VH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thats exactly what they've done.. and since they wanted to give SCO as MUCH chance as possible to:
      1. produce the evidence
      2. destroy their own argument
      3. bankrupt SCO in legal fees
      its taken this long...

      If it was a short case noone would have cared about it and the benefits to Linux and FOSS wouldn't have occured...

      jeez don't you read groklaw at all?

      --
      groklaw, wired and slashdot. The holy trinity of work based time wasting.
  6. Anyone notice? by sethadam1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm no conspiricy theorist, but did anyone notice that IBM - effectively the Microsoft of the 80s - has become the geek hero of the age?

    Sure, this has cost them lots of $$, but they are going to emerge the champions of tech geeks the world over.

    1. Re:Anyone notice? by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 4, Interesting

      IBM - effectively the Microsoft of the 80s

      Not so. IBM was called the benevolent dictator, and that since way before the 80s. I don't think I've ever seen Microsoft been called benevolent by any sane person...

    2. Re:Anyone notice? by i_want_you_to_throw_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm no conspiricy theorist, but did anyone notice that IBM - effectively the Microsoft of the 80s - has become the geek hero of the age?

      Sure, this has cost them lots of $$, but they are going to emerge the champions of tech geeks the world over.


      There's nothing to stop Microsoft from becoming a company that geeks could love. They just need to learn the painful lesson that IBM learned (eventually): how to transition from a company that makes standards to becoming a company that contributes to them.

    3. Re:Anyone notice? by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 3, Informative

      Microsoft can very easily be a normal and respected company. It's hard to imagine, but it's possible. It's very possible for MS to exist largely as it it nowadays. However, it would require a shift in income from licensing to support. Here's how:

      • Remove atrocious licensing schemes.
      • Conform to standards, open up your own for others AND write filters that convert office documents to anything your customers could wish for.
      • Sell "Light" versions of home-user orientated software at low ( $30 and lower ) prices.
      • Improve support for enterprise level products such as the server series, premium office suites and the like.
      • Play nice. Slander isn't a very good tool to maintain a profitable enterprise.
      • Expand more on hardware. Microsoft hardware, contrary to their software, is very good stuff imho.
      • Focus on delivering custom software solutions to enterprises.
      • Create and maintain home-user orientated communities like MSDN for the "common people", where developers can communicate with their users and maybe find a few new areas of improvement.

      However, I fear most of that is wishful thinking. Ah well, I'd give it a shot if given the oppurtunity.

    4. Re:Anyone notice? by nathanh · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Not so. IBM was called the benevolent dictator, and that since way before the 80s. I don't think I've ever seen Microsoft been called benevolent by any sane person...

      I've never heard the benevolent dictator before to describe IBM, but I can believe it. In my own dealings, IBM hardware and software has always been highly praised. They build solid stuff. They support it _forever_ and a day. Documentation is second to none. But the IBM sales and marketting is a pariah. I've heard comments from other techs along the lines of "I wish I didn't have to deal with IBM's lawyers before I could use IBM's products".

      The benefit of IBM going with open source is that you no longer need to deal with the sales people or the lawyers to get to the product. You speak directly with IBM's engineers. It's perfect. All the top qualities of IBM - the engineering, the attention to detail - without any of the biz crap you wish didn't exist.

      NB: that's not to say every IBM product is a godsend. They've produced some absolute shit in the PC division (which includes their Intel/x86 based servers as far as I'm concerned). I'm sure there are other cockups too.

    5. Re:Anyone notice? by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      However, I fear most of that is wishful thinking. Ah well, I'd give it a shot if given the opportunity.

      You're right both about what Microsoft could do and the likelihood that they'll do it. It's worth pointing out, however, exactly why they won't do it.

      In a word: profit. While they could be a respected and healthy company doing what you mention, they would be operating on profit margins that are a tiny fraction of what they have now. Their business would become more similar to IBM's, who has profit margins that are less than one third of Microsoft's. Their stock price would decline by at least half, maybe more. Their relative importance in the I/T world would drop like a stone as well.

      All in all, they'd go from being the big kid on the block, in many measures (profits, market cap, influence) to being just another player, and one without some of the diversity and breadth advantages of IBM, or HP.

      Long-term, they're going to have to come down to earth, but don't expect them to stop taking the monopoly profits one second before the market forces them to.

      In its heyday, IBM was also perfectly content to take the money until the DoJ got them to sign a consent decree that tied their hands in the mainframe market about the same time the market shifted away from big iron. Microsoft, of course, has realized that consent decrees and such only limit your actions if you choose to obey them, so it's going to require extra-market forces (like open source) to cut them down to size.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  7. Not asking for the case to be thrown out.. by neurojab · · Score: 5, Informative
    From the motion's text itself:

    Pursuant to DUCivR 56-1(a) and Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 56 and 37(b)(2), Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff International Business Machines Corporation ("IBM") respectfully submits this cross-motion for partial summary judgment on its claim against Plaintiff/Counterclaim-Defendant The SCO Group, Inc. ("SCO") for a declaration of non-infringement with respect to IBM's Linux activities (the "Tenth Counterclaim").


    A partial summary judgement and a dismissal are entirely different. A partial summary judgement does not end the case.

    1. Re:Not asking for the case to be thrown out.. by neurojab · · Score: 3, Informative

      >In fact, the things IBM doesn't want to have thrown out are their counterclaims against SCO. IBM does ask for almost all of SCO's claims to be thrown out.

      Not really. What SCO claims in the media is "IBM stole our code and put it in Linux". Their COURT claims, however, are different. If you look at SCO's second ammended complaint, Copyright infringement is the fifth cause of action, but they never directly accuse IBM of putting UNIX code in Linux (just "derivative works"). The rest of the claims are contract violation, unfair competition, etc.

      Partial summary judgement on copyright infringement would be a PR nightmare for SCO (even though they'll spin it as though that's what they wanted), but I would expect the case to continue until SCO becomes the largest crater in Utah.

  8. Interesting insights on Groklaw by TWX · · Score: 5, Informative

    Reading throught many of the recent Groklaw stories and posts, I've found some of the legal insights intriguing. IBM's lawyers did a wonderful job of giving Darl and Company plenty of time and opportunity to paint themselves into a corner.

    IBM has documented SCOX's failure on two different orders to produce their evidence in discovery. They have also brought forth conflicting statements made by various lawyers and corporate types, the lawyers saying, "We have no further evidence" with the officers saying, "We will find more evidence as things go along". Even more damaging, SCO's filing lawsuits against so many other entities has caused other lawsuits to depend on the conclusion of this one, so there suddenly is no way for them to not go ahead.

    I just hope that the SEC seeks criminal cases against SCOX board members over this one. That would do everyone well for the long term.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  9. Darl's New Job by RPoet · · Score: 5, Funny
    --
    "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
  10. Not put up, but just shut up by 1001011010110101 · · Score: 4, Informative

    In fact, IBM is saying that as SCO hasn't already presented evidence, even after being ordered twice by the judge, they shouldn't be alowed to present any now ... like, you had time to put up, now just shut up. Its even worst after the executives kept talking trash (read: we have all the evidence, millions of lines of code, rockets scientist checking the code, and a long etcetera).

  11. Interesting clause... by angst_ridden_hipster · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought that this was a particularly interesting clause in the filing and one that you don't often see:

    "IBM further requests extensive injunctive relief from litigants, viz, their fields shall be burned, and sown with salt; their buildings torn assunder; their leaders beaten and hanged; their animals slain, and left unto the beasts; their wives enslaved and set to lamentation; their names and images expunged from the histories and chiseled from the monuments; and their children's teeth set on edge, yea unto the seventh generation. So shall vengeance be wreaked upon those who look with enmity upon Big Blue."

    --
    Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
    www.fogbound.net
  12. Ask not by overshoot · · Score: 4, Informative
    It asks for evidence to be produced or the whole case thrown out.

    No, it just asks for the Court to rule on Counterclaim 10. IBM has not asked for the case to be thrown out, nor have they suggested that SCOX produce more evidence.

    They do point out that they have been asking for the detailed claims for almost a year now, and that the Court itself has twice had to order SCOX to provide them. Twice, SCOX has sworn to the Court that it has complied with those orders.

    At this point, IBM is in the mode of saying that SCOX has had more than enough opportunity to come up with some adjudicable claims, and that the case should move forward with what is (or isn't) on the table.

    In other words, read the frippin' linked documents before posting this stuff on the front page.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  13. It's precisely BECAUSE of the time! by spun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's because it has been a year that IBM's lawyers can go to the judge and say, look, these guys have no case and they are stalling and wasting your time and ours. So let's decide now, before they waste any more time, whether they have a shred of a case or not.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  14. Is this really such a good thing? by Dizzle · · Score: 4, Funny

    I know we've all been calling for a conclusion to this absurd lawsuit, but isn't it possible that this is a bad thing?

    What stories will go under the Caldera section now? "Caldera makes actual product"?

    --
    -Dizzle
    "I most likely AM so interested in myself."
  15. Article Text by CyanDisaster · · Score: 4, Informative

    Site's running slow, so here's the article text

    ----------

    IBM slams 'grandiose' SCO, asks for whole farce to be called off

    Latest court filings may be make or break for controversial Linux copyright case.

    By Robert McMillan, IDG News Service

    IBM has filed new documents in its legal dispute with the SCO Group, accusing SCO of having no evidence to back up its copyright infringement claims and asking the judge to throw a major component of the case out of court.

    "For more than a year, SCO has made far-reaching claims about its right to preclude IBM's (and everyone else's) Linux activities," wrote IBM in documents filed with the District Court for Utah. "Despite SCO's grandiose descriptions of its alleged evidence of IBM's infringement, SCO now effectively concedes that it has none."

    SCO has been unable to provide any evidence of copyright infringement during the discovery phase of the trial and the court should therefore render a summary judgement against SCO, IBM's filings say.

    In March 2003, SCO filed a multibillion dollar lawsuit against IBM, accusing it of violating SCO's Unix intellectual property. SCO accused IBM of unfair competition, breach of contract, and of violating SCO's trade secrets. In late February this year, it dropped the trade secret allegations in the case, but added a claim that IBM had violated SCO's Unix copyright.

    A few weeks after the trade secret claims were dropped, IBM sought a declaratory judgement in the case, a move that opened the possibility of a quick ruling against SCO. Lawyers following the dispute saw this as a sign of growing confidence on IBM's part.

    By seeking a declaratory judgement, IBM was showing that it had not found any evidence to back up SCO's claims, said Jeff Norman, an intellectual property partner with the Chicago law firm Kirkland Ellis. Because the copyright claims form the crux of SCO's case, this week's filing for a summary judgement creates the possibility that the dispute could essentially be over in a matter of months, he said.

    "IBM is saying to SCO: 'As a matter of law you're playing this so weak that no reasonable jury could find in your favor'," Norman said. "They must think that they have a pretty good chance of winning the motion, or you wouldn't bring it."

    This week's filings could also force SCO to provide more compelling evidence of copyright violations, said David Byer, a partner with the patent and intellectual property group at Boston's Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault. "It is another way to try to focus the court on the evidentiary questions that have been battled about since day one, meaning who is going to produce what when," he said. "SCO needs to respond to this. If they don't respond appropriately, the case can get thrown out."

    SCO is likely to produce more evidence to support its claims, said Blake Stowell, an SCO spokesman. On 19 April, IBM turned over 232 versions of its AIX and Dynix Unix source code as well as internal documents and memos from executives, he said. "Our lawyers are still going through much of the evidence IBM turned over as part of the discovery process. I'm confident that there is still other evidence that will come forward in order for us to be able to prove those claims," Stowell said.

    Complicating matters for SCO is the fact that Linux vendor Novell also claims to own copyright to the Unix source code. SCO has sued Novell for slander in connection with this claim.

    ----------

    Hope be with ye,
    Cyan

  16. Just goes to show... by Flower · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That no matter what the activity, no matter what the field, it is always easy to be an armchair QB.

    --
    I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
  17. Humble suggestion by Syncdata · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why not forgo the whole "sale" route, and just have a fire? I certainly wouldn't want to be the next tenent in their office complex.

    --
    "Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
  18. What I'm trying to work out by mcc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If I'm reading all these reports right, the summary judgement just concerns the copyrights / "stolen code in linux" claims that SCO had as part of their case, but dropped when the judge ordered them to produce evidence.

    What the summary judgement means is IBM is pointing at the big swath of things that SCO claimed then dropped from the case, and asking the judge, "could you *pretend* SCO never dropped those parts, and give us the ruling you would have given if those parts of the case were still in effect, so that we can declare the matter closed and SCO can't make those allegations again later?"

    So if the summary judgement's granted, IBM's case will still go on, since it has no bearing on the contract claims that SCO's lawsuit against IBM comprises at this point.

    HOWEVER, if the summary judgement is granted, RedHat's case will suddenly start up, since (1) the copyright allegations and slander that the summary judgement concerns is *exactly* what RedHat's case is about and (2) when RedHat's case hit court, it was ruled that that case should be delayed until the IBM case is decided, so (3) since the part of the IBM case that RedHat was waiting on has been summary judgemented, they're free to persue the lanham act thingy against SCO.

    Is the above the case?

    1. Re:What I'm trying to work out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The summary judgement is being requested for the 10th ammended counter claim. This is claim from IBM stating that its Linux activities don't violate Unix copyrights. If this is found to be the case by the judge, it does several things:

      1) It establishes that IBM hasn't violated Unix copyrights.

      2) It establishes that the behavior of using Linux doesn't violate Unix copyrights, since this is a behavior that IBM has indulged in.

      3) It establishes that redistributing Linux doesn't violate Unix copyrights, since this is a behavior that IBM has indulged in.

      4) It allows the Redhat case to move forward, since the copyright issues in the IBM case were the reason that the judge stayed that case.

      5) It establishes that their is no copyrighted Unix code in Linux, which will help Redhat and Auto Zone.

      DanW

  19. If this were a drinking game... by dacarr · · Score: 4, Funny

    If I had a beer for every time that either SCO said that Linux is for all intents theirs, IBM or others said no it's not, or Slashdot posted about this, I'd be a puddle of organic goo on the office floor.

    --
    This sig no verb.
  20. As much as I would like... by zeruch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...to beleive that this is 'put up or shut up' I have more of a feeling that this will be like Moammar Quadaffi in the mid 80s amking threats to the US: "There is a line of death! You cross this line, you die!" IBM crosses "Ok, you cross this line you die!" IBM crosses... "Ok, you cross this line you die!" repeat as necessary until someone in juducial authority slaps SCO upside their empyty head. As much as I want it to be, I have a feeling this is far from over.

  21. Not put up or shut up; just shut up by rgmoore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, this one actually is a bit different, and the headline is a bit misleading. What's been going on so far is that IBM has been saying, with varying degrees of politeness, that SCO needs to put up. The last couple of rounds have involved IBM getting the judge to say it for them. Now they're going to the judge and saying that since SCO has failed to put up, the judge should make them shut up. This is a big deal because it will decide the most important part of the case- SCO's allegations of copyright infringement- should the judge rule in IBM's favor. If IBM wins this motion, neither SCO nor anyone who buys their rights to UNIX will be able to sue for copyright violations in Linux.

    --

    There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

    1. Re:Not put up or shut up; just shut up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      If IBM wins this motion, neither SCO nor anyone who buys their rights to UNIX will be able to sue for copyright violations in Linux.

      Not exactly, it means that IBM can't be sued for putting SCO's IP into Linux.

      Other companies may be sued for doing this, or IBM may be sued by a different litigant for leaking their IP.

      This is only regarding IBM's (alleged) improper contributions to Linux. Check Groklaw for all the details and the plain english translations...

    2. Re:Not put up or shut up; just shut up by rgmoore · · Score: 5, Informative

      No. The idea behind a motion for summary judgment is that the judge decides that there is no substantive factual dispute, so he can rule on who is right and wrong as a matter of law. Once the judge makes a summary judgment, the matter is treated just as though it had been decided by a jury. If IBM wins this motion (and any possible appeals) it is final. Somebody who buys SCO's rights in their bankruptcy liquidation won't be able to turn around and sue IBM over the same point, because it will already have been decided.

      Equally important, IBM is asking for a ruling covering Linux as a whole. IBM is claiming that:

      IBM is entitled to a declaratory judgment pursuant to 28 U. C. 9 2201 that IBM does not infringe, induce the infringement of, or contribute to the infringement of any SCO copyright through its Linux activities, including its use, reproduction and improvement of Linux...

      IOW, they're not only not guilty of violating any SysV copyrights from having contributed code to Linux, but they're not guilty from simply copying it. That would only be true if there were no code over which SCO has a claim, so an IBM victory will have the side effect of protecting anyone else from copyright infringement claims.

      --

      There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

  22. Re:Yeah! by jtev · · Score: 3, Insightful

    IBM used to suck, Sadam and Usama used to be our freinds. Times change. All we can do is make the alliances that most benefit us, but know that sooner or later they all end.

    --
    That which is done from love exists beyond good and evil
  23. Re:if they win? by arevos · · Score: 3, Funny

    What if legions of small, zombie bunnies attempt to take over the world?

    Sometimes, there are more important and more likely things to be worried about.

  24. Whee! by arevos · · Score: 4, Funny
  25. You'll know this fiasco is over... by mabu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    when all the principals and their cronies have cashed out their stock, leaving a bunch of clueless mutual fund holders and low-level employees holding the bag.

    Until then, expect SCO to grandstand some more until they can drain the last little bit of value out of the company before they retire to their homes in the Hamptons.

    Meanwhile, the SEC and the Justice Dept. probably have armies of agents pouring over the finances of Oprah Winfrey and Cheech Marin.

  26. SCO's fair day in court by steveha · · Score: 4, Informative

    If the judge had given SCO, say, one week to provide the evidence, and then thrown the case out -- SCO would appeal. And the appeals court would give SCO a new hearing.

    The judge has given SCO multiple, generous chances to cough up some evidence. Now that it has been a year, the judge can entertain a motion to toss out the parts of the case for which no evidence has been offered.

    SCO will appeal if this happens. However, if IBM and the judge have crossed all their t's and dotted all their i's, the appeals court will refuse SCO's appeal.

    Only once the appeal has been made and rejected is it truly over!

    The wheels of law grind slowly, but they do get the grinding done eventually.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:SCO's fair day in court by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The wheels of law grind slowly, but they do get the grinding done eventually.

      The American legal system is broken. Look at the treatment SCO got in Germany: one court application to put up or shut up, and they had to do it or else. Sanity prevailed.

      In America, insanity prevails.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  27. The beginning of the end by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative
    This is not the end, but it is the beginning of the end. SCO has stalled for some months, but eventually, the courts won't put up with any more stalling. IBM is now saying that "eventually" has come, and asking the court to rule accordingly.

    This is unlkely to result in outright dismissal. But IBM is also moving, alternatively, for "foreclosure of factual defenses pursuant to discovery rule 37(b)(2)," That's the real "put up or shut up" motion. IBM is saying that SCO has had enough opportunities, after two court orders, to come up with specific evidence of copyright infringement. So SCO should now be barred from submitting any new evidence of infringement in future.

    They'll probably get that. They cite all the embarassing background material, including press statements by SCO and an .MP3 of Darl mouthing off. IBM uses the words "fear, uncertainty and doubt" twice in its latest court filings. But what really matters is that two tightly focused discovery orders have failed to elicit evidence of copyright infringement from SCO. That's so unusual that a ruling by the judge that SCO has had its chance isn't unreasonable.

  28. Re:About GD time! by Darth+Yoshi · · Score: 3, Interesting
    If it's this simple why has no-one done this earlier??

    Chill dude. Timing is everything. After a year and two court ordered motions to compel, it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain (that leaves out Robert Enderle and Laura DiDio) that SCOG's shooting blanks.

    A year ago, SCOG's duplicity hadn't even begun to sink into the consciousness of the "mainstream" analysts and publications. Now, almost every article you read raises questions about SCOG's evidence and integrity. Now, is the time to strike. If IBM had tried this a year ago, the "mainstream" publications would be questioning IBM's integrity, not SCOG's.

    --
    // TODO: fix sig
  29. Re:Funding SCO by radish · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As has been explained (undoubtably better) before by many people, the GPL doesn't need to be tested in court. Reason? Imagine a company is being sued for breach of the GPL (for example, they redistributed a binary of something with no source). One of two things must be true - the GPL is valid and the defendent accepts this, or the GPL is not valid. In the first case, they accept the GPL is valid but have broken it's terms, thus they are guilty. In the second case, they must abide by the regular rules of copyright (which have been tested in court many, many times). Regular copyright says you may do NOTHING with the material in question without EXPLICIT permission from the copyright owner. The only thing which grants you those permissions is the GPL, which the defendent says is invalid, therefore they are guilty. QED.

    In short - because of this either/or, the GPL has not been tested in court, and essentially never will. You either accept it and abide by it, or deny it and pay up.

    --

    ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

  30. Not at all unexpected by Evets · · Score: 4, Informative

    An MSJ (Motion for Summary Judgement) is filed by one party in civil suits more often than not. The idea that IBM would not have filed it unless they were confident has no merit.

    From here, SCO will file an argument against MSJ, and the judge will rule according to a timeline specified by local rules. (Some districts do monthly motion hearings, some deal with them as they come).

    At this point, since discovery is over, SCO will not be allowed to submit further evidence, only to argue what they have shown is enough to continue.

    Typically, the plaintiff in a case like this will hold back evidence until just before trial. It's of course unethical to do so, but they will argue that it was not discovered until then. In civil court, unlike criminal court, last minute evidence is more often than not allowed. Judges are allowed to allow any evidence they see fit that will help bring the truth to light.

    Expect this motion to be denied, and expect IBM to file for an extension to review the mass amounts of last minute evidence that SCO brought to the table. Also expect that there will be such a large amount of last minute evidence brought to the table, that a small amount of patently false information will get through. Frequently, you'll see things like e-mails without full header information, and other technically unsound evidence that will be contested at trial, but will allude to guilt.

    When you pile a bunch of allusions together in civil court, you have a shot at winning. You don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, you only have to prove a likelyhood that the crime or tort has occured.

    If you sign up for a pacer account, you can get access to the court documents for 4 cents a page. I don't know if this filing is online yet or not.

  31. Re:IBM, our great savior? by gujo-odori · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is actually quite a wrong analysis.

    If IBM weren't around, SCO still could (and almost certainly would) have picked on smaller players such as Red Hat, SuSE, etc. These small players don't have a great deal of money with which to defend themselves, and SCO could have probably bankrupted some of them before the fight was even over, and possibly even won one or more injunctions against the distribution use of Linux.

    Fortunately, IBM was around, was promoting Linux in a big way, and SCO was foolish enough to take on the 600 pound gorilla and think it could win or at least be bought out at a handsome profit for its investors and executives. Too bad for SCO it turns out the 600 pound gorilla believes it can win and set a precedent and never have to worry about this again. As a result, IBM will seek to make an example of SCO, and make Darl rue the day he first heard the words "law suit."

    Then, when it's over and SCO is in ruins, IBM may buy SCO anyway for pennies on the dollar and have both the court precedent and the IP in hand, rendering IBM and all of us safe from a repeat attack on Linux. It will probably also render IBM safe from being sued by anyone else, over anything, for a long time to come because they have demonstrated their willingness to fight instead of settle.

  32. Re:Yeah! by zangdesign · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am still disturbed however to be supporting a big, bad (well, in the past), corporation against the little guy

    Which suggests that you are biased against large corporations simply because they are large, and biased for small companies because they are small. There is nothing inherently evil about a large corporation - Walmart is large and evil, Costco is large and not evil. Walmart is a slave pit, Costco apparently pays pretty well and succeeds at creating a decent work environment.

    Except in a few instances, it's not the corporation that's "evil", but the people running it, or their policies. It's time to get past that simplistic view of big is bad and small is good.

    --
    To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
  33. Re:Yeah! by gujo-odori · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So what you're saying is that good or evil doesn't matter, only size matters? :-)

    Seriously, though, if the little guy is evil and the big guy is good (even if he used to be bad too, but reformed himself) and the evil little guy foolish attacks the good big guy and the big guy, is forced to defend himself, then the big guy should have our support.

    Now, the way out legal system is structured (and pretty much everyone else's, too, I think), it basically forces you to take no prisoners. You either obtain an out of court settlement or you go on to victory or defeat in court.

    The real world comparison would be if the little guy is going to fight the big guy, and the rules of fighting, encoded in law, require that they both be locked in a cage and only one comes out alive, or neither ever comes out. Since the big guy didn't start the fight, which was wrongly called by the evil little guy, we can't really blame the big guy if he kills the little guy to get out of the cage.

    So, IBM is likely to bankrupt SCO in this fight, and SCO will be destroyed. It's IP is likely to be bought by someone, probably IBM, or maybe a consortium of IBM, Novell, Red Hat, and others. SCO's few remaining employees will probably all wind up jobless, the innocent along with the guilty. IBM is not to blame for that. SCO is.

    So, I'm openly rooting for IBM because they are the good guy, and I hope they utterly destroy the bad guy, necessary or not, even if they are a 600 pound gorilla and the bad guy is a 98 pound weakling.

    You should *always* enjoy it when the bad guy gets his ass kicked, didn't you learn anything in the movies? :-)

  34. Re:Yeah! by Xenographic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am still disturbed however to be supporting a big, bad (well, in the past), corporation against the little guy. No matter how evil the little guy is in this particular case. Somehow the glee that infects the open source community from IBM's good strikes against SCO just don't sit well with me.
    ----

    1) SCO picked this fight. No one forced them to sue.

    2) Just because they're the "little guy" doens't mean they deserve to win.

    3) IBM has actually been rather magnanimous to SCO, allowing them lots of extra time (in a few past motions), not quibbling about the small details (several things they could have objected to, they have overlooked), while at the same time (obviously) maintining a consistant position that SCO's position is inconsistant and absurd.

    4) From my reading of both sets of filings, the reason IBM is doing so well is not that they've somehow railroaded SCO, it's that IBM has been able to keep all their legal filings consistant and SCO can't keep their story straight, and since SCO hasn't been able to do this, neither has their legal counsel. Thus, SCO has asserted a number of things which they ought not to have, and are losing as a result of their own misconduct.

    5) IBM seems to have reformed. They're not trying to control the operating systems market, they're trying to make sure that no one can, ironically. So they won't be beholden to any one operating systems company, and open source software gives IBM all the advantages in being able to help people customize it to make use of IBM hardware.

    I feel that "big corp" vs. "little guy" reasoning is too simplistic, if it were being used as the only criteria for deciding who to support, without reference to the facts at hand. I don't blame you for not wanting to root for some company's demise, though, I just wanted to lay out why I don't have so much of a problem with watching SCO get stomped in court.

  35. In other news by orcrist · · Score: 4, Funny

    Slashdot announced an expected 10% loss in page views once the SCO case is wrapped up. VA Investors are looking for a new company to rally the slashdot readers against...

    -chris

    --
    San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
  36. Not long now by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SCOX&t=2y&l=on&z=m &q=l&c=

    Last trade was 4.754. Hard to believe it peaked at 22.29, and with no real difference in strategy or product. The stock market is a strange and wonderful place...

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  37. Re:Yeah! by einTier · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I've worked for IBM in the recent past, and I'll say they are about as benign as a big company can get. It was really a pleasure to work for them, and there was always cool stuff going on.

    One thing I really respected about them is that they throw tons of money into research and development, even if that R&D doesn't seem to have a real financial payoff in the future. They basically just pay people to come up with and develop cool technological toys. Some are successful and make IBM tons of money. Others aren't and are just cool to have around. Still, it's not often you see a large company that dedicates a large portion of time and money to things that don't contribute to the bottom line.

    However, woe be unto you if you cross them. As benign as they are, those fuckers hold a serious grudge. And for a very, very long time. They are still pissed about the whole OS/2 Warp debacle and won't use Microsoft products if they can get away with it. That's also a very large reason why they are pumping so much money into Linux. They'd rather the whole OS market be open and free than have Microsoft controlling it.

    They are going to literally grind SCO's bones to make their bread. There will be no SCO by the time IBM is done.

    --
    -------------------------------------------------- $665.95 -- retail price of the beast.
  38. Bias based on limitations by dunng808 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Except in a few instances, it's not the corporation that's "evil", but the people running it, or their policies. It's time to get past that simplistic view of big is bad and small is good.

    This is not the way I see things. A small business is more likely to reflect the personality -- the values -- of its owners. Large corporations by their nature gravitate toward impersonal, dehumanising treatment of their employees, the surrounding community, even their customers. This was seen as a flaw of capitalism in general, but from where I stand, what matters is the size of a company.

    Costco is large and not evil

    Even Costco cannot look after its people the way Scrooge did after being visited by the three spirits. Managers are constrained by HR policies, memos from Legal, and paltry funding from the Comptroller. Big corporations stage supportive activities, but can no more care about an employee than I care about the ant I squashed on my way to work this morning.

    I am grateful for IBM's action in this matter, but will always be wary of them starting to throw their weight around.

    --

    Gary Dunn
    Open Slate Project

  39. Re:Yeah! by Zirtix · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Corporations have no integrity. It doesn't matter if a (big) company does something you agree with on day n, because on day n+1 the board, the CEO and the rest of top management can be fired and replaced; replaced with people that will do something you despise. Likewise they may be bought out, merged, liquidated, etc. Unlike governments, few corporations have any kind of mandatory ethical code, or any way of effectively enforcing such rules.

    We see this flip-flop with SCO. Caldera used to be a quite reponsible company, now they are 'evil'. IBM used to be 'evil', now they are 'good'.

    This is a specific problem with large companies, because large companies are publically owned and hence involve a fiduciary responsibility of great importance to a lot of people. The management have a duty to the owners to maximise the profit potential of the company. When a company has a lot of capital, the value of 'ethical' practices pales in significance compared to the amount of profit potential.

    In the case of small companies, the responsibility to maximise earnings is of secondary importance compared to maintaining valuable customer relationships. Often the owner is also the top manager, and hence he/she may decide to act 'ethically' without risking a breach of their fiduciary duty. Also, they will not be fired arbitrarily! To a certain extent, a small company's integrity resides in that of its (private) owner.

  40. Re:Yeah! by mindfucker · · Score: 4, Funny
    Don't you think you're embellishing a tad with this whole 'good vs. evil' thing?

    This looks to me more like one of those videos on "When Animals Attack" where a retarded guy provokes a polar bear by poking it in the ass with a stick.

  41. Quick Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    From a post at Groklaw (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040520 162431732#comments) for those who want it fast.

    Please read PJ's article there for a much better analysis of events.
    -------------

    SCO: IBM infringes on our IP!

    IBM: What are you talking about?

    SCO: IBM took our trade secrets and our copyrighted stuff.

    IBM: What trade secrets and copyrighted stuff?

    SCO: We won't tell you.

    IBM: Magistrate, make them tell us.

    Wells: Tell IBM with specificity.

    SCO: We need IBM's source code first!

    IBM: Magistrate, make them tell us.

    Wells: Tell IBM with specificity.

    SCO: Ok we will.

    SCO: We are dropping the trade secrets claim. It's all about derivative works
    now.

    IBM: Magistrate, they didn't tell us.

    SCO: We need IBM's source code first!

    IBM: Bull.

    Magistrate: SCO tell IBM with specificity. IBM, give SCO the appropriate
    source code at the same time.

    SCO: We have complied with the court order.

    IBM: There is no specificity.

    SCO: We have complied with the court order.

    Blepp: I have all the evidence in my suitcase!

    SCO: Hold off on the RedHat case until IBM's counterclaim is settled.

    RedHat: This is weak. Our business is being damaged while we wait for IBM's
    counterclaim to be settled.

    SCO: Dismiss IBM's counterclaim, please.

    Blepp: Our strategy is not to show everything at once.

    IBM: Judge, they told us they had given us everything. They promised us that
    this was everything that they had that we asked for. What they gave us isn't
    even close to proving copyright infringement of SysV in Linux. Please rule on
    this counterclaim.

  42. IBM is saying, Dismiss, period! by kuwan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes, IBM is saying that a Summary Judgment should be granted on their Tenth Counterclaim because SCO has not shown, and should no longer be allowed to show, any evidence. IBM is effectively saying that SCO should no longer be allowed to show any more evidence because SCO has sworn by affidavit to the court that they have already shown all their evidence. Since the evidence that SCO has provided doesn't show any copyright violations on IBM's part then a Summary Judgment should be issued in favor of IBM. From page 30 of IBM's memorandum:

    SCO has advised the court that it has provided complete and detailed responses to the court's orders. If that is true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has no evidence of IBM's alleged infringement (as SCO has adduced none). If it is not true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has not only defied two orders of the Court, but it has also falsely certified that it has provided complete, detailed and thorough answers to IBM's interrogatories and the Court's orders.

    It's not a "put up or shut up." IBM's saying that even if SCO's right, they're still wrong. ;)

  43. Its all just a ruse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    SCO doesn't actually think it is going to win this suit. They would like to - but they know they can't.

    SCO is just acting as Microsoft's pawn here.

    Microsoft gave SCO $50 million to help fight this and spread the seeds of doubt against Linux to delay what is inevitable - Linux will dominate business and government operating systems around the globe.

    I am certain that Microsoft considers this money well spent. Afterall - how many corporations and government entities DIDN'T change over to Linux because of the fear this suit created.

  44. Yesterday's news, now and forever... by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 4, Funny
    June 07, 2019 - For immediate release

    International Business Machines (NASDAQ: IBM) today announced a new court motion aimed at ending the lawsuit by One-Click Lawsuits - formerly SCO. The motion is aimed at ordering One-Click Lawsuits to release the details of IBM's alleged misappropriation of One-Click Lawsuits' alleged valuable intellectual property into Linux, IBM's legal.....

    (In other news, on the same day...)

    Microsoft today announced immediate availability of the Legacy Windows Compatibility Layer for the 4.8 kernel, with support for over 12 microprocessor architectures, others forthcoming. The LWCL allows enterprises completing their migration path towards Linux to retain their investment in custom code written for the legacy Windows operating systems. Microsoft's chairman and CEO, Linus Torvalds, said it feels good to have completed his purchase of 75% of what was arguably the world's most influential software company since the 1980's. He hinted at some of the more exciting changes occuring in the 4.9 development kernel, along with.....

  45. Please please please... by localman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hope IBM sues the hell out of the officers (not just the corperation) for libel or whatever they can. It's just not enough for these assholes to wave a gun around and then laugh it off when we find it's not loaded. They have caused a lot of people a lot of trouble and the _individuals_ who pushed this need to be appropriately punished. It should be made clear that it's not worth it to play these frivolous lawsuit games.

    Cheers.

  46. Re:if they win? by Keith+McClary · · Score: 3, Funny

    What if legions of small, zombie bunnies attempt to take over the world?

    Are you referring to female corporate spokespersons?