Slashdot Mirror
The Urban Geek As A Mugger Magnet?
CGP314 writes "I live in London and whenever I travel around, I feel like a huge target for muggers. Usually I take my laptop, iPod, cell phone and occasionally a PDA around with me. As with many geeks, these items hold within them far more value to me than anything I leave behind in my apartment. So I would like to know what my fellow urban geeks do to try and keep their valuables safe while traveling with them. I've switched my iPod headphones from the distinctive white to a boring black as a means of camouflage; are there any other suggestions?"
Ditching the white earphones was a good first step - I would also suggest not using a fancy case to carry around your laptop - those leather targus bags just scream "look at me! expensive stuff here!"
It's not what you have, it's whether you look like an easy target or not. Look around as you walk, be alert, notice people and make sure they know you notice them, but don't stare. Don't slouch and stare at the ground.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Or at least a self-defense course.
People all over the world should be given the right, nay, the duty to defend themselves with lethal force from the worthless scum of the world.
I've been mugged several times myself, so please excuse my bitterness.
Yeah, good luck with that in LONDON.
Yeah, I just noticed that question at the end. Goes to show how reading is a good thing. I'd have to say the iPod headphone switch was a good move. But I don't think a laptop can be that easily concealed. Unless you have a cheap backpack or something, that'd about about all you can do to look inconspicuous. The most basic thing is to keep your stuff outta sight. I tried the cheap look once. It works pretty well, I must say.
Your ad here.
Living in cities with anything like a decent crime rate, I view mugging and / or damage to equipment that I carry regularly as inevitible, and plan accordingly. The data that my equipment carries far exceeds the cost of the equipment itself, so I try to keep backups of data on another machine at my house or in another location entirely.
I will say though, I was working at a convenience store a few years ago, and got held up at gun point while developing on my powerbook. All I could think about while handing them the money from the register was to position myself in exactly the right place so that the gunman couldn't see my laptop directly behind me. Ever since that close call, I've stuck to my "guns" when it comes to regular backups.
Life is too short to walk around worrying about muggers.
I think this has to be the worst ask slashdot yet.
Let's ignore the fact that the guy is in London and cannot carry a gun.... however, for those of us that are able to bear arms, remember:
(1) Your gun is not a toy
(2) Only reach for your gun as a last resort
(3) Only shoot if absolutely necessary
(4) If you have to shoot, shoot to kill. "Your word against his" is a lot easier when "he" is dead.
Seriously, though, in this country (US), it is easier to deal with an "excessive force" charge as a victim than the civil suit for "lost wages and mental anguish" from your now-wounded attacker.
Simply put, don't be a target. Carry yourself with the attitude that you aren't anyone's target, you belong exactly where you are, and know exactly what's going down.
Know what's going on around you at all times. Walking around any kinda of area where you could get mugged wearing any kind of earphones tells those watching that you have NO awareness of much of anything except what's right in front of you. Since you're a geek, maybe not even that.
Use the senses you were born with... if you hear something behind you, move first, ask questions later. See something that makes the hair on your neck bristle ahead? MOVE to the other side of the street. Don't take that shortcut down the isolated alley.
Vary your routes if you think you need to..
Above all, be aware of what's going on, and who's around you at all times.
Sig??? I don't need no stinkin Sig!
> How about not using your Ipod when you're walking > around?
It's a PORTABLE music player. Why the f#$% else would you have it.
you know, i'd rather have my stuff stolen than live with shooting someone... even a crook.
A very noble statement - potentially taking the life of another human is a very sobering situation to have to consider living with.
As for myself, if I ever feel as if a threat to my life exists (i.e., violently accosted by a stranger), I've thought through and made my decision already...
I'm filling the sucker full of lead. My life is more important than a would-be criminal's.
...learning to walk properly.
There's a way of walking that just cries out "Oooh! I'm a victim! Pick me, pick me!"
There's another way of walking that says you know where you are and what you're doing. It says you're capable and confident. And it says that you're probably not going to roll over when mugged, and probably will make it more hassle than it's worth for what little you probably have on you.
You might find it enlightening to sit on a bench and watch the people pass by. Identify which ones look like targets, and which don't. Learn the difference.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Is it really that hard to understand that the gun is a deterrent, not a 'thugicide'? The firing of a gun in self defense is literally that - self defense. When you pull a gun (hopefully after taking one or more courses in lethal force usage) you are sending a message to the criminal : this episode is over.
90% of all self defense situations involving firearms are happily resolved without the gun being fired. That's the intention : pure deterrance with the added insurance of being able to use it in an acute emergency. That's a win for everyone.
The image the gun control crowd loves is people simply pulling a gun at every possible instance and spraying. That's simply not consistent with reality - nor is the very silly 'it'll just get taken away from you' myth.
I'd say not only leave London, but move to a region where self-defense isn't a crime.
Excuse me ?
This is the most stupid post I've read in weeks, and I have to reply.
First, I don't know where you have found your statistics, but if you ask anyone in the streets (take someone in Sweden or Italy if you want them to be neutral), they will tell you that they are much more afraid of violence in countries that allow people to carry weapons around (e.g. the USA) than in countries where it is not allowed, no matter what the Official Crime Rate is.
Personnally, I've already walked alone in Paris and in its subway at night. Whereas I would not say I was totally confortable (but even here in Switzerland, you can be aggressed if you are really not lucky), it is nothing compared to the feeling I'd get if I were to walk in streets where half the people would carry guns.
The second thing is, self-defense is not restricted to carrying guns. I'd be interested to know how many times people really defend themselves with their guns (and what is the ratio against "gun accidents" for instance). Plus, if all the "Honest People" carry guns, why wouldn't your aggressor ? Then if both have guns, who wins ? Do you start a duel in the middle of the street ?
There are many different kind of self-defense, and weapons are probably the most stupid one (because violence triggers violence). You can learn how to defend yourself physically (kick the balls, aim at the throat or the eyes, etc). You can carry non-deadly weapons (pepper spray, etc). You can try to always be part of a small group of people. You can run (no, really).
But don't come and tell us that deadly weapons such as guns make for a more secure, less violent city !
theefer
So many geeks I know walk around as if the world is out to get them.. the result. This probably attracts more bullies and muggers than anything else imaginable.
I don't know if carrying a gun will make a nervous person any more confident though. A scared person with a gun is still a scared person.
You don't neccesarily need to feel powerful.. feeling average should be enough.
There is no "right to bear arms" in the European Declaration of Human Rights. Only a right to life. And bearing arms is not considered to be compatible with that.
I've got an iPod, but I almost NEVER use it while walking. I tend to use it exclusively on the train or at work.
While walking, or for that matter cycling, I prefer to be tuned-into my surroundings.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
What you want to do is to carry all your gadgets in a diaper bag. Yes, I'm serious. This is a time-tested technique. Nobody wants to steal a baby-blue or pink cute little bag full of shit.
Are you adequate?
In some states he would get public praise
The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
I would try to get into the habbit of backing up important files on something like a pen drive. You can easily slip it into your pocket and often the data on the computer is more valuable than the machine itself. CD and DVD burners are great but if you use a CDRW be sure to remove the disk between back ups. You don't want to be saying after it is stolen at least I backed it up only to realize the disk is still in the drive.
Last week a police officer was killed (stabbed by a suspect he was chasing) in the line of duty in Birmingham, UK. It was the biggest news story (front page of all papers, lead item on TV news, etc) for 24 hours.
In the US, how many police officers would have to die in a single incident to get that level of blanket news coverage? How many are shot and killed every week?
Yet somehow most Americans buy into the myth that Britain is a more violent society than their own? Ignorance is bliss.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Better a live serf than a dead cowboy?
I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six!
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Bite Me Fanboy!!
I did that. I also dress like something between a freak and a bum and I dyed my hair blue. Anyone that hassles me I make weird comments to about aliens and my fondness for anal probes and women with three breasts.
Amazingly this tactic really cuts back on the number of girls that go out with me too. Luckily there is an easy solution.. leave the electronics at home, dress nicer, look a lil less scary, and show off how much cash you're making at your nice geek job.
Showing a little confidence has the interesting effect of scaring off muggers while attracting women. Be warned though, women are much more costly than muggers. Muggers generally don't move in with you and continue to drain your finances for long periods of time.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
You do not have to kill someone for a handgun to be effective. Any mugger, short of one who himself has a handgun, is going to stop short and find an easier victim if he sees that you have a handgun. Simply drawing and holding it at a low ready should do the trick. If not, up it comes ready to fire. If they continue at you, it would be reasonable to assume that they have intent to harm you, and then...
You do NOT EVER shoot to kill. You shoot to live. Shoot to end the threat. If one shot to the chest kills him, you shot to live. If one shot goes wild and hits him in the arm and he drops his weapon (Whether that be a gun, a knife, or his fists) and retreats, then the threat is gone and you have no further business shooting. If three shots to the chest don't stop him and the threat is still there, keep shooting until there is no longer a threat. Shooting with the intention to kill is how you get in deep shit in court. In fact, one of the things a prosecuting lawyer (even in an obvious self defense shoot) will try to get you on is whether your ammunition was specifically designed to kill someone. Some of the best self defense ammunition such as "Hydra-shoks" and "Black Talon" will make the jury think that you meant to kill someone, whereas the more mundane "Gold Dot" is less scary, and less likely to be used against you even though all of them attempt to do the same thing: Expand to avoid overpenetration and harm to innocent people while transferring as much of the energy in the bullet to the target as possible.
I've been both shot and stabbed. It's really not the big deal that tv makes it out to be. It hurts but isn't really the tragic horror that it's shown as on tv. Most muggers don't know how to use their weapons and aren't really motivated to use them. So they attack you and make a quick buck.. now they have a major criminal offense against them. Whereas if they just accept the brush off and move on to an easier target the chance is that they won't be doing any serious time. Sure, most of them aren't to bright but it's not hard to figure something so basic out. For the dumber ones you can confuse them by just acting like you didn't notice them or behaving in a insane manner. Raving about aliens and the coming end of the world is a first rate way to convince someone that it's not worth their effort to fuck with you.
Maybe this only works if you have the right mindset though. If you're nutty enough not give a fuck if someone stabs you then you'll probably not be picked as a target by many muggers. At least not if they have been at their job very long. Give in to them and sure you might get away unscratched but you're more likely to be picked as a target and the more often you're picked as a target the more likely some asshole will ice you just for fun.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Heh heh... This is why most geeks have problems getting hot dates! What you fail to understand is that if girls think you're already taken, that makes you more valuable, and therefore, more wanted.
In other words, if you're hanging with a bunch of guys at the local bar, you'll find it much more difficult to pick up a date than if you're there with a girl. So just go with some girl who's "just friends" with you, wait until she goes to the bathroom or something, and then go talk to that hot potential date who's there. I don't know why this works. After all, girls get pissed when you cheat on 'em, but if they think you'll dump some other girl for them, that turns 'em on. But then, girls don't make any sense anyway.
Not only is an ipod not worth a life. It's only worth about 3 hours of lawyer time. If you shoot someone you'll need a lot more lawyer hours than that even if it's an obvious case of self defense. A CCW is not something to take lightly. It's one thing to use a gun to protect your life. Just don't do anything stupid like shoot a mugger fleeing with your laptop.
Who wants to steal my books anyway?
Me. That's some really easy money. Return stolen books, get cash. No questions.
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
I'm pretty sure this has all been said before, but I'll try to put it in one place. This is an issue I think about a fair bit, because I'm a computer science grad student and wannabe photographer. Which is to say that I have some stuff that's worth stealing, but am also broke enough that I'd really miss it.
1. Don't carry valuables in a way that makes them identifiable. For example, don't use computer bags, iPod cases, and whatnot. Get a protective sleeve for your laptop and toss it in an ordinary backpack. Stick your iPod (or, in my case, ancient Rio) in a pocket. A backpack crammed with expensive electronic toys looks the same as one full of books and old tin cans.
2. Don't act or look like a good victim. Carrying yourself properly is a whole discussion in itself, so I won't even really try to cover it.
3. Don't dress or act like you've got money. You should be above status symbols anyway, but if you're not, here's another incentive.
4. Remember that your data's probably worth more than your equipment. Always keep good backups, especially for mobile devices. If your data is sensitive, either keep in encrypted or don't put it on portable devices in the first place.
5. Get insurance. Find out what your homeowner's (or renter's) insurance covers, and fork over the extra for "scheduled item" coverage on your portable valuables. I do a lot of photography, and it's infinitely more relaxing to know that if something happens to my stuff, I don't have to worry. The extra cost is somewhere around a couple % of the insured value anually, and the peace of mind is worth it. Good policies even cover accidental loss and breakage, so you're protected from your own stupidity up to a point.
6. If someone *does* mug you, just give them the damned stuff. It's not worth getting hurt over. If you've done 4 and 5, it won't even be that big a deal. But even if you haven't, it's just stuff.
I am truly amazed at the careless sense of invincibility some posters have shown in this discussion. Take my sensei's advice: when someone demands your wallet, the best escape move is to slowly and calmly remove your wallet and hand it over.
Heresay: My sensei also said that another instructor he knew tried to take down a mugger who had a knife and he ended up dead with multiple stab wounds. This would explain the development of my sensei's simpler "hand it over" technique.
This will sound a bit nuts, but I went to school in the inner city. I used to get my butt kicked on a regular basis having to go through rough neighborhoods because of the color of my skin.
Then an old man in that neighborhood gave me some good advice:
"Run, never walk. If you're running they'll either be too slow to react to mess with you or they'll think you're running from the cops and don't want anything to do with you"
I tried it, it worked. The same thing is true of any other sketchy place in the world I've been.
It'll get your lazzy hump into shape quick. Not the most practical in dress shoes, but kept my butt from being black and blue.
1) Backup your data
2) Get Insurance
3) Profit!
Seriously, no matter how depraved the criminal, it comes off as equally as depraved to value your iPod more than a human life -- after all, isn't that what you're ostensibly defending against -- someone who values your iPod more than YOUR life? If it really was your life they were after, that's an even trade, but clearly, what they're after is your stuff, not your life, so taking a life in order to protect your gizmo is the same trade the criminal is making.
Get insurance, take reasonable precautions (like, maybe, don't carry around $6,500 in electro-goodies at 3:30AM in Brixton) and when someone tries to mug you, look at it as an upgrade opportunity. That's what insurance is for and it's cheaper than the lawyer it will take to keep you out of pound-me-in-the-ass-prison when the muggers family sues you for manslaughter.
At the end of the day there's a simple equation: carry around only what you are willing to lose either by accident or by force -- essentially, nothing worth more than you'd be comfortable carrying in your wallet. If it's insured, assume you're carrying your deductible, so $10,000 in stuff is like $500 in cash. When it comes down to $500 or a human life, you'd have to be an absolute barbarian to kill for it.
The comments here so far have concentrated on face-to-face encounters with muggers, but pickpockets are probably a bigger threat in London. If you pull out your wallet, gameboy, PDA, etc on the Tube, sooner or later someone will notice where you stashed it in your bag, get behind you on the escalator, and pilfer it. You will never know. Pickpockets are good at what they do, even some of the most streetwise Londoners I know have been pickpocketed.
Maybe you should get one of those belt chains that were fashionable for wallets a while back, and use them for your PDA and Ipod. Use some superglue and one of those things they use to secure computers to desks if there's no other way to attach it. It won't stop muggers (and if you're too flashy about the chains, it might attract them), but it will stop pickpockets and grab-and-run thieves, including those gypsies that come up to you when you're at a restaurant with some card that explains their sob story (which is just a distraction to pour the objects on the table into their bag).
Everyone I knew in London (myself included) has been a victim of crime there. Chances are, you'll eventually join their ranks.
One of the basic rules I learned when I took a self defense course can be roughly summed up as follows: While it is better to avoid a dangerous encounter, if you are in one, do whatever it takes to get out of a dangerous situation intact. If you survive the incident unharmed, then by definition you acted correctly.
The police statements merely prove they are morons or at least out of touch (uniformed police officers don't get mugged very often, know self defense, interact with criminals on a regular basis, and are required to carry weapons when not on duty-not typical of most of the population...). Yes, going along with the demands of a criminal may work most of the time, but if you believe differently at the time, don't follow the police advice blindly-the police aren't going to save your behind...
I'd run the heck the in the opposite direction yelling for help, that should frighten 90% of your average criminals enough to flee. If they have a gun, being a moving, more-distant target will make their chances of actually hitting you drop significantly. Just look at the statistics of *trained* police officers shooting; how do you think a thug with no firearms training is going to hit you from 100+ feet away?
I would never, ever consider moving somewhere where I couldn't. It just demonstrates a government's utter contempt for its citizenry. I guess we'll never be neighbors.
Actually, it demonstrates the British government's utter consideration it has for its citizens. Neither you, nor you gun, will ever move to London.
And when your nearest major city can get its gun related murders in a week down to England's yearly total for the whole country, then the English might start to believe the claims that a prevalence of firearms make the place safer.
First, the BoJ statistics end in 1996. The gun ban was passed in 1997. Ummm... let's ignore that link.
Second, compare things the gun ban will actually AFFECT. I'm talking about murder by handguns, etc. The UK rate is way lower, as I said. Burglary and what not (how most people are affected) probably won't change as most burglars aren't going to rob a house when anybody's home to actually use the gun.
It's really easy to throw around misleading statistics (as you did) but when you look at the statistics that are affected by the gun ban you'll see an entirely different picture.
No sig for you.
Doesn't matter if you're as good as Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee. If you get into fight with someone who holds a knife you WILL get cut (If you're good you will survive it). Having martial arts training would teach you this. Choose your battles. Your wallets not worth it.
Here's my 2 cents (for the record I'm female, a geek and have studied psychology):
The reason that women prefer a guy they see in a bar with another woman over a guy with his (male) mates is that they want a "reference". The message our subconscious minds receive is that the guy with a woman (friend OR romantic interest) must treat women well enough that he's worth spending time with. He is perceived as being a "quality" kinda guy because we trust the other woman's judgement.
Maybe you're learning the wrong martial art. In aikido, we're taught how to fight someone no matter what weapon they're wielding or style they're using. The one exception would be if the guy is carrying a gun.
It is common to tell beginners that the best solution is to give in peacefully, because (as beginners) they're likely to get themselves killed thinking that they know a martial art, hence can handle the situation. That, and when the police start asking questions, they can plausibly say, "It's not like we didn't warn them."
A man with a knife threatening you is combat. Saying that learning a martial art means learning to move past the point where you need to fight is great and all, but there is no way on God's green earth that my sensei would give some idiot with a knife his wallet.
If you're looking for noble Oriental philosophy, at least higher-level practitioners have mastered the self-control to decide how much they have to hurt their opponent in order to defeat them. Here in Japan, a martial art is there to act as a means to defend yourself in combat. That's why police are required to show proficiency in either kendo or judo in order to advance, and why both are taught as basic curriculum in high schools.
In our dojo, they tell you, "If you seek spiritual enlightment, go to a temple. If you seek to learn to fight, go to war. If you seek both, you're in the right place."
"Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
The comment's not racist. The poster was having a shot at people who are scared of blacks and cops who don't believe they can be rich.
Just because a joke uses racial traits doesn't make it racist, or even offensive.
Cogito, ergo sig.
Yeah. I find it a bit odd that women are so calculating about dating. To often even women you're close to will judge you by how much money you make. It really bothers me actually. I don't care if I'm making a lot or a little.. I don't want my work life and my income to define who I am or my relationships. Funny me for wanting to base relationships off love and respect.
The effectiveness of flashing cash to pick up girls makes me wonder why prostitution is illegal. If a woman only goes out with you because you have money how is that any better than trading sex for cash?
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
> BTW, all cops, everywhere that I know
This just begs for a response. 'Everywhere that I know' happens to also include that part of the world thats not inside the USA (yet) ?
If it is then you are absolutely and completely wrong.
In quite a few places in Europe, icluding the part where I happen to live (the Netherlands), police is taught to shoot to kill ONLY if they had no other options whatsoever, and are taught to STOP what is going on usign the least amount of force possible.
Incidentely (check the CIA world fact book on it if you like) we also have:
1. less people killed in general
2. less people killed by police use of violence
3. less policemen killed by violence
4. less robbery with use of violence
5. lower crime rate in general then the USA.
And yes, we also have banned weapons from daily life, tho it is very well possible to have one for sports or hunting.
Interestingly, Spain follows a lot closer the rules as they are in the USA, and also turns out having by far the highest rate of violent robberies and people gettign killed by violence of all of western EUrope (actually, only Poland and some parts of eastern EUrope come close to it, and don't surpass it yet)
The point is that there is a statistical relationship between amount of violence and how a society deals with weapons.
That relation nowhere shows that places that have weapons readily available to civilians are safer, rather, it shows the exact opposite.
You may feel safer havign your conceiled gun permit, but realize it is tjust that, you FEEL safer, in fact you are not.
I again suggest reading up a bit on the numbers, the CIA factbook is a nice patriotic source for the Americans among you who say this is all just the bs from the anti-gun lobby.