Slashdot Mirror
Bioterrorism Charges Brought Against Professor
gnetwerker writes "Wired
and others are reporting about artist Steve Kurtz, professor at Univesity of Buffalo (NY), and member of the
Critical Art Ensemble will face a Grand Jury in two weeks on bioterrorism charges over artwork that used samples of harmless bacteria to make a statement about genetic engineering and food safety. He is charged with BioTerrorism under Section 817 of the PATRIOT Act. Apparently
John Ashcroft can't tell a weapons lab from an art installation. There is more info and a
Defense Fund on the CAE Defense Fund Site."
The guy is being charged because his otherwise healthy wife in her 40s, mysteriously died.
He is not being held on the patriot act, but a much older late 80's U.S. Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989.
Good god. I'm not fond of Ashcroft or the PATRIOT Act, but not everything is a conspiracy, you know.
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
This guy was arrested for things in his own home. The Police are treating this just like finding a huge cache of explosives or something, when in fact its what (he claims) is harmless bacteria.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
The FBI announced today that TCBY (The Country's Best Yogurt) has been shut down until further notice under section 817 of the PATRIOT Act.
Unknown host pong.
You do realize that every food crop/animal that man has raised since the dawn of time has been slectively bred to produce higher yields, disease resistance, and/or other physical traits (Dog and Cat breeds look nothing like their ancestors, neither does your baked potato). GE/GM crops are just allowing us to add factors that would normally take millenia to add.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
...it's probably an illegal biotech lab by their definitions too. I really need to throw out that months-old foil-wrapped leftover something-or-other in there.
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I read both linked articles. I've searched them for patriot as well as 817. No hits. It sounds like this guy is being charged with a law signed 15 years ago, brought to attention by a mysterious death of his wife. From the Wired writeup, I'd say he's done activities which would make me slightly suspicious. Enough to warrant an investigation at least.
So where's the PATRIOT act charges come from? Because Slashdot isn't showing it.
With any luck they'll never see the vegetable bin in my refrigerator..
CAE's latest project, included a mobile DNA extraction laboratory for testing food products for possible transgenic contamination. It was this equipment which triggered the Kafkaesque chain of events.
FBI field and laboratory tests have shown that Kurtz's equipment was not used for any illegal purpose. In fact, it is not even _possible_ to use this equipment for the production or weaponization of dangerous germs. Furthermore, any person in the US may legally obtain and possess such equipment.
If that's true (and the quote does come from the CAE defense fund page - obviously a biased source), it doesn't seem to me like anyone could have much of a case against him.
I think this is just a symptom of a more general problem - most people don't understand the biology of transgenic food, and ignorance breeds fear and suspicion. There's also the conflation of ideas between transgenic plants and bioterror organisms. Yes, some of the same lab techniques of gene manipulation might be used in both, but "transgenic" seems to get confused with "harmful".
I would be awfully surprised if this guy was growing something in his home that caused the death of his wife. And if he did, chances are it came in on whatever material he was studying - in which case that's who should be investigated.
On the one hand, I think Mr. Kurtz probably should have set up a lab in his university rather than doing it in his home. But to lose your wife (most likely to some freak of chance - an undetected heart problem, or whatever) and your livelihood as well, is a steep price to pay.
So Kerry's actually more at fault for the Patriot act than Ashcroft or even GWB himself (on the theory that a 99-1 or so would override any attempt at a veto, not that W would have even thought of doing that...). Ashcroft's charged with enforcing the laws, not making them.
The CAE presents its performance arts pieces as satire. But the group's electronic books, with introductions featuring quotes from the likes of Malcolm X ("By any means necessary," is one of the quotes), may have the federal government suspecting that artists connected to the ensemble harbor sinister motives.
One of the ensemble's e-books advocates releasing mutant organisms into the environment to disrupt the work of biotech firms. Another proposes secretly releasing mutated flies into restaurants.
The CAE says this tactic, which it calls "fuzzy biological sabotage," would encourage "those who never would join a movement (to) become unknowing cohorts or willing allies" in the struggle against the biotech industry.
Let's not mention that his "healthy" wife was found dead in their home among all the bio-lab equipment. Just another example of the Man keeping an artist down! He's an artist and an activist - so they shouldn't even investigate the bio-lab in his house, or his views on releasing mutant organisms in the wild! It's his constitutional right!
The slant on this posting is reprehensible. If you want to stand up for this guy, I suggest you take a trip to his house, go inside and take a deep breath.
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
>But I think creating genetically-modified foods in the first place are terrorist activites!
"We're 6.6 billion people now. We can only feed 4 billion; I don't see 2 billion volunteers to disappear."
-- Norman Borlaug on Penn and Teller's Bullshit! - "Eat This!", speaking on the effects of removing modern farming techniques and genetic engineering from the food supply.
Sorry. I'm gonna have to take the word of a man who is estimated to have saved 1 billion lives and has a nobel peace prize over yours. Hope you understand. Don't take it personally.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
(1) You would discover, in both the Wired and USA Today pieces, that Mr. Kurtz is *not* being charged under the Patriot Act. If he is charged with anything, it will be an older act related to bioterrism. He is not being charged under the Patriot Act. He is NOT being charged under the Patriot Act (did it get through?)
(2) Mr. Kurtz hasn't been formally charged with anything. He is currently the subject of a investigation brought about by the death of his wife. This investigation may or may not result in an indictment. Take this fact into consideration before forking over $$ to this "defense fund" (for which there is a VERY convienient link).
From the Wired story: "The subpoenas cited Section 175 of the U.S. Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, which prohibits the use of certain biological materials for anything other than a "prophylactic, protective, bona fide research, or other peaceful purpose."
Section 817 of the PATRIOT Act is not mentioned in either linked story.
Wow. Some people have been subpoenaed to get facts about this case. What an unheard of trampling of rights.
Someone needs to do some fact checking before posting.
"Me fail English? That's unpossible." - Ralph
Shit like this is only going to continue to happen more and more often...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again(I wasn't first to say this, mind you)...
if you want an unlimited source of free energy, just attach a turbine to George Orwell's body
Orwell's vision is coming true, little by little by little... and if the American people don't stand up and do something about it, pretty soon it will be too late (if it's not already).
There's an election coming up folks... think long and hard about whether the people you're voting for are FOR or AGAINST this kind of shit. My suspicion is that any major party candidate is FOR this shit, personally.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
I typed "Anarchist's Cookbook" in Google.
I clicked a chapter. This is what I found:
Unstable Explosives by the Jolly Roger
Mix solid Nitric Iodine with househould ammonia. Wait overnight and then pour off the liquid. You will be left with a muddy substance. Let this dry till it hardens. Now throw it at something!!!!
Read the last sentence. What was your point, exactly?
"Deconstructing and disrupting the growth of genetically modified foods" might be done as a piece of performance art, but it's still vandalism and destuction of somebody else's property.
I have two problems with your statement.
First, you stated your opinion as a fact. You have assumed as facts several premises that are very much in debate. Many (including myself) will argue that much art is also political statement and that the artist being discussed here takes a slightly different view on the subject of what can be property and what should be done with genetic engineering. As such, you might sound more credible if you actually responded to the issues being raised rather than just bleating "terrorist!"
Second, they didn't actually do any of the things you're saying they did, they described some ideas on how to do those things. You're allowed to write a story about robbing a bank and make lots of money, but if you actually rob a bank, you go to federal prison. See the difference? It's subtle, but it's there.
They're still practicing terrorism in that releasing something genetically modified into the environment is likely to cause a scare even if it's found to be harmless later.
RTFA. They haven't done any genetic modifications, nor have they released anything genetically modified into the environment. The equipment that the accused had in his home is for making gels: visualizations of genetic sequences. The most he could do in the way of genetic modification with the equipment he had was to create the equivalent of a bacterial breed by selecting bacterial populations for various conditions.
And, in a worst case, these guys could botch it all up and cause the kind of environmental harm that they're so scared Monsanto will cause.
Get your facts straight, you also have all of the equipment to do exactly the same thing in your home right now. The only thing you can't do that he could with his fancy gear is see what the bacterial genes look like in the mutant strain in the back corner of the fridge.
At least Monsanto does its best to follow the laws... these people seem to have no respect for the law at all.
Monsanto will definitely follow the laws that benefit its bottom line. To assume that Monsanto is therefore completely lawful is an entirely different set of assumptions. I have found that only rarely do companies do what is moral (or legal) when the immoral and illegal are much more profitable. While I have no evidence that that Monsanto learned at the Enron school of business, I'll reserve judgement about whether it "does its best to follow the laws." until I know for certain.
Regards,
Ross
You know, times HAVE changed.
No, they haven't. Not other than to the extend that people are buying into that very line.
Times have NOT changed... this WAS, and IS a free country, where the people do not tolerate the government trampling on their civil liberties and natural rights. IF we begin to allow ourselves to believe that we must change THAT, then the terrorists have won, game over.
Just as it was before, and just as it always will be, life is dangerous. Do it long enough and you die. Every one of us.... And so life in a truly free country may be a little more dangerous than life in a more tightly controlled country. Big deal... we're all gonna die eventually eitherway, and there's a reason that things like:
Live Free or Die!
and
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death
are rallying cries in this country. It's better to live, and die, having liberty, freedom, and the "right to the pursuit of happiness" than to live without freedom, IMNSFHO. And in the opinions of a great many Americans who have preceded me.
The truth is, most Americans have more to fear from George W. Bush or John Ashcroft than they do from this professor, or even from Osama Bin Laden.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
GE/GM crops are just allowing us to add factors that would normally take millenia to add.
And in a decade or so could possibly wreck the kind of ecological destruction that would normally take millenia as well. Sticking genes from one species into another is not at all the same thing as selectively breeding a single species for desirable traits.
FreeSpeech.org
A corpse in the kitchen with an unknown cause of death and a stack of bacterial cultures ought to be cause for concern for the police and ought to prompt a police investigation. Furthermore, determining whether some genetically engineered bacteria are dangerous or not is far from trivial, so it's not like one can just look at the situation and determine that it is harmless. So, no, I don't think police overreacted in this case. Take away the corpse, and maybe one could say that they overreacted. Even then, dangerous and harmless kinds of experiments are difficult to tell apart, and the question of why this work isn't happening in a lab, with proper documentation and notification, is still valid.
Until you actually commit the crime, you can't be guilty of it. Not much for the jury to decide on.
People who pose a real and direct threat should be investigated, otherwise national intelligence doesn't have anything to go on. I would say that it should stop at simply gathering intelligence because preemptive actions by law enforcement (PD, FBI, whatever) are unconstitutional, but then I remembered our foreign policy.
Christ I can't even get through a simple slashdot post without confusing myself anymore. I'm moving to Canada.
If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
Steven Kurtz sounds like a bit of a nutjob to me. Unless his 'proposal for the release of mutant flies in restaurants' is Johnathan Swift style satire.
Most biotech scientists would support labelling of GM foods. Only the Monsato's of the world oppose this. It's a reasonable, conservative viewpoint. When that doesn't occur, the crazies come out and want to release mutant flies, or do other insane things.
People with these type of radical viewpoints will continue to grow in the U.S., as the government becomes more disconnected from the people.
(eg. Because of congressional gerrymandering something like 80% of U.S. house representatives are in safe districts, and have almost no risk of party loss in an election.)
The consequence of this is that these politicians have less incentive to worry about the concerns of their electorate. Enter the lobbyists to fill this time on their hands.
Why is it that genetic manipulation to make more and better food is bad, but genetic manipulation (with intentional release into the wild) to protest something is good? Why is it that when Monsanto says they've tested the GM crops to be safe, they are disbelieved on general principles, but when some art professors say THEIR GM bacteria are safe, they must know absolutely what they are talking about?
Do you need a license to have sex too?
If you have AIDS and know it, and don't tell your partner, you can't even (legally) have sex -- license or not. And that's the kind of case we're talking about.
If you're breeding Anthrax in your basement (not saying he was -- maybe his stuff was harmless, and maybe it would have remained so -- or not) I want you stopped.
Sorry, your right to pursue your interest in your home stops when that interest might get out of control and kill everyone in the neighborhood.
everything in moderation
People know very little about the patriot act, it is actually hard to use it, because you have to convince a federal judge to grant a warrent under the act. It doesn't give the government a be-all end all right of invastion of priviouy, it just consolidates many of the common requests for wire-tapping and other things, that would require seperate warrents. So in essesnse it speeds up a process doesn't change it or grant any more rights or take away any more. This is probably one of the biggest mist conseptions that has been spread by the anti-patriot act people, and most of those people just use it to bash the president, they aren't really concerned with the rights of the people, just more of gaining power back.
/. news post is totally off base and probably has a bias against Aschroft (i.e. Bush).
Also in the wired article it states: "But Kurtz's work and his beliefs are more radical than those of many of his peers. He has written proposals for releasing mutant flies into restaurants, and demonstrated methods for destroying genetically modified crops. And it is Kurtz's views, his supporters say, that have Kurtz on the wrong side of a federal investigation sparked by the death of his wife, Hope Kurtz."
This professor has talked about in papers of releasing genetically engineered flies into resurants, and destroying crops that have been genetically modified. These might be on the lower end of the terrorism totem-pole, but it is still a terroist act. And all of this was sparked by a pecular death of his wife, normally deaths are handled by local cops, unless something really weird is going on that requires the FBI.
So this is IMHO a perfectly good use of the Patriot act. Just remember, that a judge has to agree to sign the warrent inorder for the patriot act to be used. And many of the Federal judges in the past couple of months have rejected the use of the patriot act for stuff they didn't deam in the realm of what is required to warrent one. In addition Ashcroft has been rejected many times by Federal judges including a couple big ones in Chicago about doctors records. So the author of this
Take my comments at what you will, but if you want the real truth go read the patriot act on the U.S. Congress web site.
So what's going to happen if my girlfriend electrocutes herself with her hair dryer, and the medics find my basement full of oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers, and RF/microwave components?
Same idea. Petri dishes and bacteria samples -- even dangerous ones -- are not illegal to own. At least, they weren't, before Ashcroft and his boss came to town.
Your hobby, unless it's birdwatching, may be next.
They investigate. They indict or not after their investigation.
This is a perfect case for a grand jury. There was a lot of stuff going on. Some of it seems criminal at first, but may not be.
The grand jury is there to decide what to do.
How should they decide whether to indict? Coin flip? Slashdot poll?
Also: The FBI is involved because there's an investigation to determine whether a Federal law has been broken. I is for Investigation. F is for Federal.
Aren't GE/GM crops usually engineered not to produce seeds so that if you want to grow more next season you have to go back to Monsanto or whoever and buy more seeds or seedlings? Isn't this the worry about these "Frankenplants", that they'll crossbreed with regular plants on the next farm over and render them sterile as well, thus forcing all the farmers to become Mega-Ag-Corp. customers whether they want to be or not?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
The new crime is that it's now a "conspiracy to committ terrorism" rather than only murder... a conspiracy to disrupt a economically vital system without killing anybody has to be considered as well. If somebody is killed without the intent to do so, that's manslaughter rather than murder...
What's next, we shut down any lab that deals with the all deadly "microbes" of doom that aren't officially run by the government? Schools will have their doors beaten down and all the petri dishes will be rounded up and taken away? What the hell? Maybe they could round up all the dirt nearby and make sure to take the terrifying E. coli out of people's guts.
And what's so terrifying about proposals to release mutant flies or demonstration that GM crops have vulnerabilities? Should we silence anybody that has the gall to show us that our tampering with food has the possibility to cause problems? Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with GM foods boosting yield and such, but it'd be a bit like somebody publishing a proof of concept that the internet can be destroyed if somebody had the resources to do so. We don't want potential hazards silenced so we can live in lala land and seal our own fates, do we?
I agree that there should be a list of substances which shouldn't be made, and if the gov't finds somebody doing so then prosecute away. I don't think we should really worry too hard about a few nonpathogenic microbes though. They certainly shouldn't be wasting my tax money on charges of having everyday bacteria. Sure, under extremely rare and odd circumstances they might become hostile, but since these bacteria are everywhere anyway that isn't really the point, is it?
If not now, when?
Apparently John Ashcroft can't tell a weapons lab from an art installation.
Of course he can tell the difference --
* An artist is a dangerous subversive, who must be arrested to stop the spread of ideas.
* A bio-weapons specialist is a valuable national resource, who must be recruited to work for Homeland Security.
-kgj
-kgj
vote the clowns out in November
We did last election (we got rid of that Clipper Chip and DMCA happy Gore). It didn't help.
I'm starting to think that the government is an organism unto itself, bent on amassing more and and more power over it's subjects (errrr, consumers....errrrr, citizens. Yeah that's it). At this point I don't think it matters who is in office, or in congress. Whoever gets elected will become just as corrupt as everyone else and the cycle will continue. Honestly, we have gone so beyond voting for the lesser of two evils we are now pretty much voting for the evil that most entertains us.
Finkployd
The relative term "last week" used by parent is misleading. The speech was actually delivered November 9, 2003, and the full version (longer than the excerpt posted by parent) can be read here.
If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
This is up there with FBI's alert about people with maps and or almanacs.
And the FBIs' investigation of a book that contained 100yr old smallpox scabs and launched an investigation as to whether or not it was bioterrorism.
The fact is a woman died and the fact is the womans death was ruled "due to natural causes". So pardon me, but I do not see how a jury grand or not could be a better judge than a doctor trained to perform an autopsy and atoxicilogy lab. Perhaps if they ordered a few additional autopsies and toxicology tests... but a grand jury should not be concerned with a procedure so mundane as to have already been done by the police department.
That and the additional fact that no cultures have been found at said lab that pose any threat.
Overall, this does not add up.
It seems once again those who have brains and initiative should bee feared. Why doesn't Ashcroft just come out and say it? "All people with higher education than a highschool degree are a potential threat and should be watched closely".
Next thing you know the DoJ will be demanding the banning of home chemistry sets currently available at Toys 'R' Us and Walmart due to a "A very present and significant threat by educated youngsters against the free people of the world."
I mean really, people have been working microbes and selectively breeding organisms for thousands of years.
Modern industrial processes and practices have essentially supressed the knowledge in the general population of how our foodstuffs, beverages, drugs and other products are produced, and attempt to disguise as completely as possible the materials, and biological processes that are used in their production.
As a result, when sucking back a 6-pack of beer we don't think about the bacteria and biological reactions necessary to make it.
We don't think, when eating cheese, that maybe we're exposing ourselves to potentially fatal biological agents.
When you light up a cigarette, you don't really think about the centuries of genetic engineering that has resulted in the smooth taste of your laramie.
Bacteria is bad because some bacteria will kill us? Is this really the US government's message?
That learning for yourself and practicing the same techniques that are some of the foundations of modern civilisation is somehow wrong?
If its not in a can or a plastic package with pretty branding, it can't be right?
If its not part of a commercial process, it should be banned?
This is a massive over-reaction by the government - A corporation doing exactly the same thing is not in breach of the law.
When Jesus Christ turned water into wine, was he a frickin bio-terrorist?
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
Tell that to the guy who bred the first mule.
When you talk about ecological destruction, are you talking about the overpopulation "problem" that these technologies will create or the unfounded fears of watermellonpeace who are actually so anti-business that they'll delibertly mislead consumers or destroy crops. Study the introduction of the potato in the old world for some insight on how this planet's population ceiling has been raised over the past 10,000 years of agriculture and animal husbandry. As for convicing the environmentalists, I'm waiting for them to wrap their minds around the basics of GE/GM technologies, as the bulk of their arguments have been based on hatred for profit making business.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Whoever, when the United States is at war, ...
Sometimes I think I am the only person in the US who realizes this but we are NOT at war. Just because President Dumbass sez so doesn't make it so.
Section 8 of Article 1 of the US Constitution clearly states that the US Congress has the power to declare war. Not Bush. Not Ashcroft. Not any bozo bureacrat who declares a war on drugs, poverty, illiteracy, this, that or the other thing.
No war, no extra-constitutional powers, no sedition. Period.
It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
I agree with your statement about the Bush Administration: This group has turned me from a centrist/conservative to a screaming liberal in the span of just two years (perhaps with the aid of some college philosophy courses ;), however I strongly disagree with your assessment that "Times have NOT changed... this WAS, and IS a free country"
Over the last 50 years, the rights of the citizens in this country have slowly disappeared. From the "Red Scare" and McCarthyism to the current topic of the Patriot Act, it is undeniable that the last 50 years have shredded the constitution provided us by this nation's founders.
A free country does not allow the government to pass laws that provide for the silent imprisonment and execution of its citizens, citizens who haven't even been convicted of a crime. A free country does not allow its private sector and capitalists to dictate domestic and foreign policy in their favor and to the disadvantage of the majority. A free country does not encourage the widening of gaps between social classes by promoting the elite and trampling and stifling the poor. A free country does not make its will dominate another sovereign country, regardless of their political system and certainly does not invade it without clear justification. A free country allows its citizens to hold its leaders accountable for their actions, actions that have caused the deaths of hundreds of your brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters and countless civilians overseas.
My friend, I have seen a free country, a country where two right-winged political parties do not dominate the political spectrum and national tickets, where peoples rights are preserved and social classes have been all but eliminated, a country where soft-money and corporate sponsorships are not permitted to "buy" elections. The U.S. is no longer a free country and it's high time something is done about it.
Sorry for the rant, but these times have gotten me in a sort of frenzy over the current state of things. Think about it. You don't have to agree, thats freedom, but believe you me, there are many that do and many more that want to see change.
The sad facts: The center of the IQ field is 100. That means half the population is there, or under there. The majority of the country (not just those with 100 or under IQs) thinks god(s), or goddess(es), or some astrological constellation-wielding reincarnated future-seeing TV personality, created everything. The populace is, by and large, not very bright and/or deluded and/or other Very Bad Things. They're going to vote republican or democrat, because they simply don't know any better - and can't learn any better, either. They don't just think poorly, their thoughts consist of superstition and hokum. They swallow unmitigated tripe like "all persons are created equal" without even blinking. They absolutely wiggle with joy at the sound of the words "in god we trust" and they accept glittering generalities such as "anyone can become president" as if it were truth and not the basest of misdirection.
So... what that means is that votes thrown to marginal parties can only send messages of dissafection - if they change an actual result, they do it by tilting the election towards one of the two viable parties and away from the other. You can't involve the masses in a democratic exercise designed to correct complex political problems - They wouldn't know a complex political problem if it rose up and bit them in the butt.
Now, as long as that's ok with you, then your vote is being spent just as you want it to.
But please, don't vote libertarian with the idea that you might actually get a libertarian elected to the presidency. Speaking as a fairly rabid libertarian myself, I'm telling you that's a complete waste of your vote. You'd be better off spending the time doing something else. Almost anything else.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Bacteria are not a threat to politicians. A Kurtz's radicalism is.
What makes referenced Patriot Act section extremely practical for political reuse is simple fact, that any chemical or biological substance could be considered as toxic, either in certain condition or in certain quantity.
Expired yoghurt? Molded bread? Can of meat forgotten on sunlight? Either of that is highly biologically dangerous material...
There you are, staring at me again.
I agree with your point, but not with "Not at war, huh?"
That simply authorizes the use of force in Iraq. It is NOT a formal declaration of war. It does reference the war powers resolution, but that isn't a formal declaration of war. Declaring war is something the United States rarely does, the last time it was done was World War II.
Anyway, I'm posting the following just for the heck of it. The U.S. has formally declared war six times in its history:
1. First Barbary War
2. The War of 1812
3. The Mexican-American War
4. The Spanish-American War
5. WWI
6. WWII
The U.S. has been involved in many other wars that had no formal declaration: Iraq (2003), the Gulf War, the Korean War, Vietnam, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and the Civil War. It's interesting to note that more than half of all U.S. battle deaths are the result of these conflicts.
If you combine the death of his wife, the goals (satirical or not) of the organization this guy is a part of, and the fact that he does all this stuff from a lab in a residential area, it seems pretty clear to me that at least *investigating* would be an extremely appropriate thing to do. It appears that's what happened and the fact that they are leveling charges makes me think something was discovered.
Throwing up a lot of quotes of disbelief by various people associated with the projects does little to discount that the whole situation surrounding this guy is more than a bit strange.
This is far from an invasion of personal rights as some of you knee-jerk types would like to paint it...
Except their GMO plants ARE capable of cross pollination.
I'm a little lazy right now but here is an article/paper about managing cross pollination between GMO and non-GMO plants. I can only assume that if management of cross pollination is required then it must be possible.
What normally would end up happening with cross pollination is that only some of the genes are in the new generation so the terminator gene is not in the new plant. I you look up some of monsanto's actions in canada and mexico against farmers whose fields have been contaminated by GMO crops I think you migh come away with a different view on things.
Last but not least, Monsanto has a patent(copyright?) on all the gene sequences that they insert into their GMO. This means that if your crops get cross contaminated you owe them money. And trust me they'll come to collect.
A blog about stuff.
The refrigerator water line broke a valve. I just replaced a bad faucet in the kitchen. My sewer line sprung a leak last month. The freshwater line is leaking this month. I've got spare plumbing parts lying all over the house, just trying to keep up with it all.
So I'm into target shooting. Hey, geeks with guns, and all that... Ammo is expensive. Reloading cuts my costs in half. I've got top of the line ammo reloading gear. Liters of black powder. Hell, I've got boxes of fulminate based primers. (They come in lots of 1000 units.)
After the Oklahoma City Bombing back in '95, I began to doubt our various news sources' accuracy/truthfulness. They didn't seem to be sticking too closely to the facts. So I bought some books, old army manuals really, on how to blow shit up. Improvised explosives, and how to use them. Sifted through the news reports for facts that were there. Ignored the obvious rants. And drew my own conclusions.
(FYI: I concluded the second seismic disturbance occurred from lateral displacement of a supporting column in the structure. When it broke, the energy released would have been like a second bomb going off. Neatly accounting for the asymmetrical damage. Thank god Timothy McVeigh was a such an incompetent bomber. Oh, and the feds were almost certainly responsible for burning those Davidians alive. The wind patterns. The holes punched by their tear-gas tank created a chimney effect. The pattern to the holes appears deliberate.)
I've been a long-time critic of airport security. It's just nuts. (I can't take a pair of nail clippers on. What's the rational there? If you don't let me hijack the plane, I'll trim my toenails? Or forcing women to drink their own breast milk?)
On the other hand, even with all the extra post-911 security, its still damn trivial to slip guns/knives/bombs through. Obvious security lapses that just aren't being patched.
I'd like to get them to change. Preferably without getting myself arrested in the process...
I'm just doomed, aren't I? But imagine if they raided Sam Barros' place!
P.S. As long as we're playing gestapo here, I hope you won't be put out about coming down to the station for some hard questioning, not to mention paying for a lawyer, for conspiracy to rape that girl out in Timbuktu. After all, you've got the equipment! We need to investigate...
...Is this really anonymous? If you don't hear back from me, its not...
I think it is silly to imagine he hasn't done any genetic modification. Infact every student who takes AP Biology in high school today does genetic modification of E. Coli to be resistant to a certain antibiotic, to express green fluorescent protein, or to express luciferase from fireflies to glow.
The only equipment needed for genetic transformation of "competent" strains of E. Coli is a hot water bath. They suck bacterial plasmids right into the cells and their genome.
You can go to a web site, enter in a gene nucleotide sequence, and get a vial of bacterial plasmid with your custome gene in a few days for as little as $500.
I'm not saying this guy is dangerous, there really isn't evidence that people can cook up anything worse in their kitchens using genetic modification than they could not using genetic modigication, but with a bit of soil and an incubator.
> Under the Patriot Act (and don't kid yourself into thinking parts of it
> are not classified) if I tried that now I personally would be charged
> with obstruction of justice.
I call bullshit. There are no 'secret' sections of the PATRIOT act. We can;t be expected to obey laws we can't possibly know anything about. I work in a public library and went through all this tinfoil hat stuff already when all the Nadorites went into a frenzy. (Think I'm being extreme? Well I was AT the Texas Library Assoc Convention a few months ago and watched Mr. Nader get more standing ovations than Kerry will likely get at the Democratic Convention next month.)
> I am literally not allowed to request a warrant if the Patriot Act is
> brought up.
Wrong. Our orders are that if a Fed asks for ANYTHING we respond that we aren't authorized to do ANYTHING and to pick up the phone for our boss. She will get in touch with the city attorney (our legal representation of record) and they will handle it from there. But while that happens we should begin collecting the information, but stall on any turnover until we hear from her.
And yes they do nead a warrant to actually take anything, but it is generally considered that a Fed on site will have little problem with that detail and to assume they either already have one or soon will so go ahead and start collecting the requested info. No sense being a total asshole about it.
> Nor am I allowed to tell anyone that the request happened.
Yes, this part IS true. Not sure how I personally come down on this one, but it does make a certain sense. But the more I ponder it the potential for misuse is just fscking huge so I guess I'd prefer to see that section of PATRIOT sunset.
Democrat delenda est