Slashdot Mirror
Bioterrorism Charges Brought Against Professor
gnetwerker writes "Wired
and others are reporting about artist Steve Kurtz, professor at Univesity of Buffalo (NY), and member of the
Critical Art Ensemble will face a Grand Jury in two weeks on bioterrorism charges over artwork that used samples of harmless bacteria to make a statement about genetic engineering and food safety. He is charged with BioTerrorism under Section 817 of the PATRIOT Act. Apparently
John Ashcroft can't tell a weapons lab from an art installation. There is more info and a
Defense Fund on the CAE Defense Fund Site."
The guy is being charged because his otherwise healthy wife in her 40s, mysteriously died.
He is not being held on the patriot act, but a much older late 80's U.S. Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989.
Good god. I'm not fond of Ashcroft or the PATRIOT Act, but not everything is a conspiracy, you know.
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
This man is an activist! What the hell is our government smoking? The man's wife died, which probably had an effect on his life and goals. Since when is a political statement grounds for federal charges? What will be next - will I br imprisoned for life without trial in solitary for burning a flag?
Who else here thinks the government has gone too far? Is there no way to stop this insanity?
Ads? What ads?
This guy was arrested for things in his own home. The Police are treating this just like finding a huge cache of explosives or something, when in fact its what (he claims) is harmless bacteria.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Where did it mention anything about a security checkpoint? Where did it mention smuggling?
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
The FBI announced today that TCBY (The Country's Best Yogurt) has been shut down until further notice under section 817 of the PATRIOT Act.
Unknown host pong.
Frankly, I really should be up to a jury to decide. I mean, He wasn't out spraying crops or anything. He was simply tooling around in his house with "harmless" bacteria and writing crazed manifestos.
Was he "practicing" terrorism? No. But neither were the 9/11 hijackers untill that day.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
You do realize that every food crop/animal that man has raised since the dawn of time has been slectively bred to produce higher yields, disease resistance, and/or other physical traits (Dog and Cat breeds look nothing like their ancestors, neither does your baked potato). GE/GM crops are just allowing us to add factors that would normally take millenia to add.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
...it's probably an illegal biotech lab by their definitions too. I really need to throw out that months-old foil-wrapped leftover something-or-other in there.
Loading...
Huh? I'm so confused.
He didn't actually use the stuff on other people's crops, or do any of these things that he *could* have done. He advocated doing it.
I mean, there are plenty of organizations in America which advocate doing ridiculous things, none of which are called in to testify on charges of actually doing the things with no concrete evidence. I mean, being a member of a white supremacist group and owning a machine gun doesn't mean you're a murdering psycho and can be thrown away for it, even I'd wager most Americans are strongly against white supremacists and a good deal of them are against high-powered weapon ownership.
I read both linked articles. I've searched them for patriot as well as 817. No hits. It sounds like this guy is being charged with a law signed 15 years ago, brought to attention by a mysterious death of his wife. From the Wired writeup, I'd say he's done activities which would make me slightly suspicious. Enough to warrant an investigation at least.
So where's the PATRIOT act charges come from? Because Slashdot isn't showing it.
With any luck they'll never see the vegetable bin in my refrigerator..
CAE's latest project, included a mobile DNA extraction laboratory for testing food products for possible transgenic contamination. It was this equipment which triggered the Kafkaesque chain of events.
FBI field and laboratory tests have shown that Kurtz's equipment was not used for any illegal purpose. In fact, it is not even _possible_ to use this equipment for the production or weaponization of dangerous germs. Furthermore, any person in the US may legally obtain and possess such equipment.
If that's true (and the quote does come from the CAE defense fund page - obviously a biased source), it doesn't seem to me like anyone could have much of a case against him.
I think this is just a symptom of a more general problem - most people don't understand the biology of transgenic food, and ignorance breeds fear and suspicion. There's also the conflation of ideas between transgenic plants and bioterror organisms. Yes, some of the same lab techniques of gene manipulation might be used in both, but "transgenic" seems to get confused with "harmful".
I would be awfully surprised if this guy was growing something in his home that caused the death of his wife. And if he did, chances are it came in on whatever material he was studying - in which case that's who should be investigated.
On the one hand, I think Mr. Kurtz probably should have set up a lab in his university rather than doing it in his home. But to lose your wife (most likely to some freak of chance - an undetected heart problem, or whatever) and your livelihood as well, is a steep price to pay.
So Kerry's actually more at fault for the Patriot act than Ashcroft or even GWB himself (on the theory that a 99-1 or so would override any attempt at a veto, not that W would have even thought of doing that...). Ashcroft's charged with enforcing the laws, not making them.
The CAE presents its performance arts pieces as satire. But the group's electronic books, with introductions featuring quotes from the likes of Malcolm X ("By any means necessary," is one of the quotes), may have the federal government suspecting that artists connected to the ensemble harbor sinister motives.
One of the ensemble's e-books advocates releasing mutant organisms into the environment to disrupt the work of biotech firms. Another proposes secretly releasing mutated flies into restaurants.
The CAE says this tactic, which it calls "fuzzy biological sabotage," would encourage "those who never would join a movement (to) become unknowing cohorts or willing allies" in the struggle against the biotech industry.
Let's not mention that his "healthy" wife was found dead in their home among all the bio-lab equipment. Just another example of the Man keeping an artist down! He's an artist and an activist - so they shouldn't even investigate the bio-lab in his house, or his views on releasing mutant organisms in the wild! It's his constitutional right!
The slant on this posting is reprehensible. If you want to stand up for this guy, I suggest you take a trip to his house, go inside and take a deep breath.
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
dude, the only thing they do is provide a test, so people can check if their food contains genetically modified food. That's not exactly vandalism or destruction of somedy else's property. You can't do any harm with the equipment they use.
- Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
>But I think creating genetically-modified foods in the first place are terrorist activites!
"We're 6.6 billion people now. We can only feed 4 billion; I don't see 2 billion volunteers to disappear."
-- Norman Borlaug on Penn and Teller's Bullshit! - "Eat This!", speaking on the effects of removing modern farming techniques and genetic engineering from the food supply.
Sorry. I'm gonna have to take the word of a man who is estimated to have saved 1 billion lives and has a nobel peace prize over yours. Hope you understand. Don't take it personally.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
(1) You would discover, in both the Wired and USA Today pieces, that Mr. Kurtz is *not* being charged under the Patriot Act. If he is charged with anything, it will be an older act related to bioterrism. He is not being charged under the Patriot Act. He is NOT being charged under the Patriot Act (did it get through?)
(2) Mr. Kurtz hasn't been formally charged with anything. He is currently the subject of a investigation brought about by the death of his wife. This investigation may or may not result in an indictment. Take this fact into consideration before forking over $$ to this "defense fund" (for which there is a VERY convienient link).
From the Wired story: "The subpoenas cited Section 175 of the U.S. Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, which prohibits the use of certain biological materials for anything other than a "prophylactic, protective, bona fide research, or other peaceful purpose."
Section 817 of the PATRIOT Act is not mentioned in either linked story.
Wow. Some people have been subpoenaed to get facts about this case. What an unheard of trampling of rights.
Someone needs to do some fact checking before posting.
"Me fail English? That's unpossible." - Ralph
Shit like this is only going to continue to happen more and more often...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again(I wasn't first to say this, mind you)...
if you want an unlimited source of free energy, just attach a turbine to George Orwell's body
Orwell's vision is coming true, little by little by little... and if the American people don't stand up and do something about it, pretty soon it will be too late (if it's not already).
There's an election coming up folks... think long and hard about whether the people you're voting for are FOR or AGAINST this kind of shit. My suspicion is that any major party candidate is FOR this shit, personally.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
I typed "Anarchist's Cookbook" in Google.
I clicked a chapter. This is what I found:
Unstable Explosives by the Jolly Roger
Mix solid Nitric Iodine with househould ammonia. Wait overnight and then pour off the liquid. You will be left with a muddy substance. Let this dry till it hardens. Now throw it at something!!!!
Read the last sentence. What was your point, exactly?
"Deconstructing and disrupting the growth of genetically modified foods" might be done as a piece of performance art, but it's still vandalism and destuction of somebody else's property.
I have two problems with your statement.
First, you stated your opinion as a fact. You have assumed as facts several premises that are very much in debate. Many (including myself) will argue that much art is also political statement and that the artist being discussed here takes a slightly different view on the subject of what can be property and what should be done with genetic engineering. As such, you might sound more credible if you actually responded to the issues being raised rather than just bleating "terrorist!"
Second, they didn't actually do any of the things you're saying they did, they described some ideas on how to do those things. You're allowed to write a story about robbing a bank and make lots of money, but if you actually rob a bank, you go to federal prison. See the difference? It's subtle, but it's there.
They're still practicing terrorism in that releasing something genetically modified into the environment is likely to cause a scare even if it's found to be harmless later.
RTFA. They haven't done any genetic modifications, nor have they released anything genetically modified into the environment. The equipment that the accused had in his home is for making gels: visualizations of genetic sequences. The most he could do in the way of genetic modification with the equipment he had was to create the equivalent of a bacterial breed by selecting bacterial populations for various conditions.
And, in a worst case, these guys could botch it all up and cause the kind of environmental harm that they're so scared Monsanto will cause.
Get your facts straight, you also have all of the equipment to do exactly the same thing in your home right now. The only thing you can't do that he could with his fancy gear is see what the bacterial genes look like in the mutant strain in the back corner of the fridge.
At least Monsanto does its best to follow the laws... these people seem to have no respect for the law at all.
Monsanto will definitely follow the laws that benefit its bottom line. To assume that Monsanto is therefore completely lawful is an entirely different set of assumptions. I have found that only rarely do companies do what is moral (or legal) when the immoral and illegal are much more profitable. While I have no evidence that that Monsanto learned at the Enron school of business, I'll reserve judgement about whether it "does its best to follow the laws." until I know for certain.
Regards,
Ross
Our justice department, using its overwhelming powers granted in the aptly named PATRIOT ACT, cannot make mistakes!! If the government says this man is a terrorist, then he is!
Question them, you're on the list next...
Love thy country, fear they government.
*DrugCheese rants*
And, in this case, he seems to be confused about which one contains E. coli...
GE/GM crops are just allowing us to add factors that would normally take millenia to add.
And in a decade or so could possibly wreck the kind of ecological destruction that would normally take millenia as well. Sticking genes from one species into another is not at all the same thing as selectively breeding a single species for desirable traits.
FreeSpeech.org
A corpse in the kitchen with an unknown cause of death and a stack of bacterial cultures ought to be cause for concern for the police and ought to prompt a police investigation. Furthermore, determining whether some genetically engineered bacteria are dangerous or not is far from trivial, so it's not like one can just look at the situation and determine that it is harmless. So, no, I don't think police overreacted in this case. Take away the corpse, and maybe one could say that they overreacted. Even then, dangerous and harmless kinds of experiments are difficult to tell apart, and the question of why this work isn't happening in a lab, with proper documentation and notification, is still valid.
Steven Kurtz sounds like a bit of a nutjob to me. Unless his 'proposal for the release of mutant flies in restaurants' is Johnathan Swift style satire.
Most biotech scientists would support labelling of GM foods. Only the Monsato's of the world oppose this. It's a reasonable, conservative viewpoint. When that doesn't occur, the crazies come out and want to release mutant flies, or do other insane things.
People with these type of radical viewpoints will continue to grow in the U.S., as the government becomes more disconnected from the people.
(eg. Because of congressional gerrymandering something like 80% of U.S. house representatives are in safe districts, and have almost no risk of party loss in an election.)
The consequence of this is that these politicians have less incentive to worry about the concerns of their electorate. Enter the lobbyists to fill this time on their hands.
Why is it that genetic manipulation to make more and better food is bad, but genetic manipulation (with intentional release into the wild) to protest something is good? Why is it that when Monsanto says they've tested the GM crops to be safe, they are disbelieved on general principles, but when some art professors say THEIR GM bacteria are safe, they must know absolutely what they are talking about?
Do you need a license to have sex too?
If you have AIDS and know it, and don't tell your partner, you can't even (legally) have sex -- license or not. And that's the kind of case we're talking about.
If you're breeding Anthrax in your basement (not saying he was -- maybe his stuff was harmless, and maybe it would have remained so -- or not) I want you stopped.
Sorry, your right to pursue your interest in your home stops when that interest might get out of control and kill everyone in the neighborhood.
everything in moderation
I can't believe I just read that. Maybe this country is going down the tubes after all. I'm very frightened for the future of freedom if political activism and terrorism are now one and the same.
Thanks for the clarification. I hope you can also help clarify how E. coli, Serratia and Bacillus globigii are "mainly related to some equipment used to extract dna."
Oh, and while you're at it, please reconcile:
You can't do anything harmfull with [E. coli, Serratia and Bacillus globigii]
. . . with:
Even harmless bacteria can become harmful under certain, but extremely rare, circumstances, said Richard Roberts, a leading DNA researcher.
everything in moderation
People know very little about the patriot act, it is actually hard to use it, because you have to convince a federal judge to grant a warrent under the act. It doesn't give the government a be-all end all right of invastion of priviouy, it just consolidates many of the common requests for wire-tapping and other things, that would require seperate warrents. So in essesnse it speeds up a process doesn't change it or grant any more rights or take away any more. This is probably one of the biggest mist conseptions that has been spread by the anti-patriot act people, and most of those people just use it to bash the president, they aren't really concerned with the rights of the people, just more of gaining power back.
/. news post is totally off base and probably has a bias against Aschroft (i.e. Bush).
Also in the wired article it states: "But Kurtz's work and his beliefs are more radical than those of many of his peers. He has written proposals for releasing mutant flies into restaurants, and demonstrated methods for destroying genetically modified crops. And it is Kurtz's views, his supporters say, that have Kurtz on the wrong side of a federal investigation sparked by the death of his wife, Hope Kurtz."
This professor has talked about in papers of releasing genetically engineered flies into resurants, and destroying crops that have been genetically modified. These might be on the lower end of the terrorism totem-pole, but it is still a terroist act. And all of this was sparked by a pecular death of his wife, normally deaths are handled by local cops, unless something really weird is going on that requires the FBI.
So this is IMHO a perfectly good use of the Patriot act. Just remember, that a judge has to agree to sign the warrent inorder for the patriot act to be used. And many of the Federal judges in the past couple of months have rejected the use of the patriot act for stuff they didn't deam in the realm of what is required to warrent one. In addition Ashcroft has been rejected many times by Federal judges including a couple big ones in Chicago about doctors records. So the author of this
Take my comments at what you will, but if you want the real truth go read the patriot act on the U.S. Congress web site.
Terrorism charges were brought against all professors that used surprise exams against students.
So what's going to happen if my girlfriend electrocutes herself with her hair dryer, and the medics find my basement full of oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers, and RF/microwave components?
Same idea. Petri dishes and bacteria samples -- even dangerous ones -- are not illegal to own. At least, they weren't, before Ashcroft and his boss came to town.
Your hobby, unless it's birdwatching, may be next.
They investigate. They indict or not after their investigation.
This is a perfect case for a grand jury. There was a lot of stuff going on. Some of it seems criminal at first, but may not be.
The grand jury is there to decide what to do.
How should they decide whether to indict? Coin flip? Slashdot poll?
Also: The FBI is involved because there's an investigation to determine whether a Federal law has been broken. I is for Investigation. F is for Federal.
Aren't GE/GM crops usually engineered not to produce seeds so that if you want to grow more next season you have to go back to Monsanto or whoever and buy more seeds or seedlings? Isn't this the worry about these "Frankenplants", that they'll crossbreed with regular plants on the next farm over and render them sterile as well, thus forcing all the farmers to become Mega-Ag-Corp. customers whether they want to be or not?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
What's next, we shut down any lab that deals with the all deadly "microbes" of doom that aren't officially run by the government? Schools will have their doors beaten down and all the petri dishes will be rounded up and taken away? What the hell? Maybe they could round up all the dirt nearby and make sure to take the terrifying E. coli out of people's guts.
And what's so terrifying about proposals to release mutant flies or demonstration that GM crops have vulnerabilities? Should we silence anybody that has the gall to show us that our tampering with food has the possibility to cause problems? Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with GM foods boosting yield and such, but it'd be a bit like somebody publishing a proof of concept that the internet can be destroyed if somebody had the resources to do so. We don't want potential hazards silenced so we can live in lala land and seal our own fates, do we?
I agree that there should be a list of substances which shouldn't be made, and if the gov't finds somebody doing so then prosecute away. I don't think we should really worry too hard about a few nonpathogenic microbes though. They certainly shouldn't be wasting my tax money on charges of having everyday bacteria. Sure, under extremely rare and odd circumstances they might become hostile, but since these bacteria are everywhere anyway that isn't really the point, is it?
If not now, when?
Apparently John Ashcroft can't tell a weapons lab from an art installation.
Of course he can tell the difference --
* An artist is a dangerous subversive, who must be arrested to stop the spread of ideas.
* A bio-weapons specialist is a valuable national resource, who must be recruited to work for Homeland Security.
-kgj
-kgj
The fact that he's being questioned by a grand jury is not alarming... if he's charged then we're all going to deserve to see more proof as to why, but so far I see nothing wrong with trying to find out if there's a link to the suspect materials that we just haven't discovered yet.
Getting questioned by a grand jury is pretty alarming because it means someone is seeking an indictment against you for a crime. Prosecutors get indictments at a high rate because the defendant does not have a chance to present evidence or cross-examine witnesses. It's all the prosecutor's show at that point.
So yeah, getting indicted for a crime such as murder is a bad thing. You get arrested and as such. It's more than the police or DA asking you questions or holding you as a witness.
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
All those lines are already drawn and the effects are mostly for the common good. Misuse (or obviously intending to misuse) explosive gas or propane and you get in trouble. If you let your toilet brew feces until it creates a public health hazard, someone will come make you clean it up, or haul you off to the asylum and clean it up for you.
None of these things are unreasonable. If you run a bio-tech lab, you should be forced to adhere to public safety precautionary standards and regulations.
everything in moderation
The relative term "last week" used by parent is misleading. The speech was actually delivered November 9, 2003, and the full version (longer than the excerpt posted by parent) can be read here.
If you get nervous, just remember that there are a few billion other people who don't really give a damn.
This is up there with FBI's alert about people with maps and or almanacs.
And the FBIs' investigation of a book that contained 100yr old smallpox scabs and launched an investigation as to whether or not it was bioterrorism.
The fact is a woman died and the fact is the womans death was ruled "due to natural causes". So pardon me, but I do not see how a jury grand or not could be a better judge than a doctor trained to perform an autopsy and atoxicilogy lab. Perhaps if they ordered a few additional autopsies and toxicology tests... but a grand jury should not be concerned with a procedure so mundane as to have already been done by the police department.
That and the additional fact that no cultures have been found at said lab that pose any threat.
Overall, this does not add up.
It seems once again those who have brains and initiative should bee feared. Why doesn't Ashcroft just come out and say it? "All people with higher education than a highschool degree are a potential threat and should be watched closely".
Next thing you know the DoJ will be demanding the banning of home chemistry sets currently available at Toys 'R' Us and Walmart due to a "A very present and significant threat by educated youngsters against the free people of the world."
I mean really, people have been working microbes and selectively breeding organisms for thousands of years.
Modern industrial processes and practices have essentially supressed the knowledge in the general population of how our foodstuffs, beverages, drugs and other products are produced, and attempt to disguise as completely as possible the materials, and biological processes that are used in their production.
As a result, when sucking back a 6-pack of beer we don't think about the bacteria and biological reactions necessary to make it.
We don't think, when eating cheese, that maybe we're exposing ourselves to potentially fatal biological agents.
When you light up a cigarette, you don't really think about the centuries of genetic engineering that has resulted in the smooth taste of your laramie.
Bacteria is bad because some bacteria will kill us? Is this really the US government's message?
That learning for yourself and practicing the same techniques that are some of the foundations of modern civilisation is somehow wrong?
If its not in a can or a plastic package with pretty branding, it can't be right?
If its not part of a commercial process, it should be banned?
This is a massive over-reaction by the government - A corporation doing exactly the same thing is not in breach of the law.
When Jesus Christ turned water into wine, was he a frickin bio-terrorist?
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
The agents asked the gallery director whether she believed Steven Kurtz holds anti-American sentiments
*cough* McCarthyism *cough*...
Tell that to the guy who bred the first mule.
When you talk about ecological destruction, are you talking about the overpopulation "problem" that these technologies will create or the unfounded fears of watermellonpeace who are actually so anti-business that they'll delibertly mislead consumers or destroy crops. Study the introduction of the potato in the old world for some insight on how this planet's population ceiling has been raised over the past 10,000 years of agriculture and animal husbandry. As for convicing the environmentalists, I'm waiting for them to wrap their minds around the basics of GE/GM technologies, as the bulk of their arguments have been based on hatred for profit making business.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Yeah, well, some of the things they've been putting into plants aren't even plant genes.
For example, in plant life there exists tons of herbicides and insecticides, developed to help the plant survive. Nicotine, and caffiene, for example.
But, they're going after fungus, and getting the BT toxin gene, putting it into corn and tobacco and the other cash crops. This is something that would quite likely never be developed in these species. Even after millions of years of cross breeding. Yeah, BT is killer stuff to bugs. In larger doses, it's not good for humans (or fungus for that matter).. Who knows what the long range impacts are from the large scale introduction of another toxin into our food chain.
Bacteria are not a threat to politicians. A Kurtz's radicalism is.
What makes referenced Patriot Act section extremely practical for political reuse is simple fact, that any chemical or biological substance could be considered as toxic, either in certain condition or in certain quantity.
Expired yoghurt? Molded bread? Can of meat forgotten on sunlight? Either of that is highly biologically dangerous material...
There you are, staring at me again.
Am I a bioterrorist? I will have collected a dangerous biological material, harvested it in my body, and exposed the public to the substance knowing its potential to cause harm.
Guess that means the yogurt industry is screwed.
thehomeland(.org)
Nice straw man, tbase. I've yet to see anyone but you say such a thing.
How about remembering that the good professor is innocent until proven guilty? I'd like to see real planning and materials pinned to the artist himself. What's being presented is petri dishes full of mold and literature, perhaps fantasy, from an organization the professor is a member of. It's all flimsy stuff that exposes problems with the Patriot Act.
Quoting Malcom X does not make you a terrorist any more than reprinting, "Give me liberty or give me death." does. Actions are what laws forbid, not thoughts.
A lab in your living room does not make you a terrorist either, but it looks like that will now get you into trouble with the Patriot act. While it seems clear that the "biological agents" found in the apartment were not harmful and not the cause of Hope's death, the lab itself is being treated as a weapon.
Where do you draw the line? If you can't breed bugs for art, what can you breed them for? Do you want to have to convince Big Brother you are politically correct when you want to grow brewer's yeast?
If you really want to be convinced of how harmless this group is, go visit their website yourself. The thing is a joke. The only thing that's disgusting is how far some prosecutor's clerk had to dig to find anything that looks threatening.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
If you combine the death of his wife, the goals (satirical or not) of the organization this guy is a part of, and the fact that he does all this stuff from a lab in a residential area, it seems pretty clear to me that at least *investigating* would be an extremely appropriate thing to do. It appears that's what happened and the fact that they are leveling charges makes me think something was discovered.
Throwing up a lot of quotes of disbelief by various people associated with the projects does little to discount that the whole situation surrounding this guy is more than a bit strange.
This is far from an invasion of personal rights as some of you knee-jerk types would like to paint it...
Except their GMO plants ARE capable of cross pollination.
I'm a little lazy right now but here is an article/paper about managing cross pollination between GMO and non-GMO plants. I can only assume that if management of cross pollination is required then it must be possible.
What normally would end up happening with cross pollination is that only some of the genes are in the new generation so the terminator gene is not in the new plant. I you look up some of monsanto's actions in canada and mexico against farmers whose fields have been contaminated by GMO crops I think you migh come away with a different view on things.
Last but not least, Monsanto has a patent(copyright?) on all the gene sequences that they insert into their GMO. This means that if your crops get cross contaminated you owe them money. And trust me they'll come to collect.
A blog about stuff.
The refrigerator water line broke a valve. I just replaced a bad faucet in the kitchen. My sewer line sprung a leak last month. The freshwater line is leaking this month. I've got spare plumbing parts lying all over the house, just trying to keep up with it all.
So I'm into target shooting. Hey, geeks with guns, and all that... Ammo is expensive. Reloading cuts my costs in half. I've got top of the line ammo reloading gear. Liters of black powder. Hell, I've got boxes of fulminate based primers. (They come in lots of 1000 units.)
After the Oklahoma City Bombing back in '95, I began to doubt our various news sources' accuracy/truthfulness. They didn't seem to be sticking too closely to the facts. So I bought some books, old army manuals really, on how to blow shit up. Improvised explosives, and how to use them. Sifted through the news reports for facts that were there. Ignored the obvious rants. And drew my own conclusions.
(FYI: I concluded the second seismic disturbance occurred from lateral displacement of a supporting column in the structure. When it broke, the energy released would have been like a second bomb going off. Neatly accounting for the asymmetrical damage. Thank god Timothy McVeigh was a such an incompetent bomber. Oh, and the feds were almost certainly responsible for burning those Davidians alive. The wind patterns. The holes punched by their tear-gas tank created a chimney effect. The pattern to the holes appears deliberate.)
I've been a long-time critic of airport security. It's just nuts. (I can't take a pair of nail clippers on. What's the rational there? If you don't let me hijack the plane, I'll trim my toenails? Or forcing women to drink their own breast milk?)
On the other hand, even with all the extra post-911 security, its still damn trivial to slip guns/knives/bombs through. Obvious security lapses that just aren't being patched.
I'd like to get them to change. Preferably without getting myself arrested in the process...
I'm just doomed, aren't I? But imagine if they raided Sam Barros' place!
P.S. As long as we're playing gestapo here, I hope you won't be put out about coming down to the station for some hard questioning, not to mention paying for a lawyer, for conspiracy to rape that girl out in Timbuktu. After all, you've got the equipment! We need to investigate...
...Is this really anonymous? If you don't hear back from me, its not...
I think it is silly to imagine he hasn't done any genetic modification. Infact every student who takes AP Biology in high school today does genetic modification of E. Coli to be resistant to a certain antibiotic, to express green fluorescent protein, or to express luciferase from fireflies to glow.
The only equipment needed for genetic transformation of "competent" strains of E. Coli is a hot water bath. They suck bacterial plasmids right into the cells and their genome.
You can go to a web site, enter in a gene nucleotide sequence, and get a vial of bacterial plasmid with your custome gene in a few days for as little as $500.
I'm not saying this guy is dangerous, there really isn't evidence that people can cook up anything worse in their kitchens using genetic modification than they could not using genetic modigication, but with a bit of soil and an incubator.
> What pisses me the fuck off here, what really drives the rage with
> which I've been posting lately, is that you folks have co-opted a
> political movement and philosophy that was once associated with
> patience, humility, and honor, constructed a bizarre mythology of code
> words in which anyone who disagrees with you is a Stalinist, that has
> wrapped a lust for power and wealth in the American flag.
Sigh. Guess you don't get out much.... or even watch TV. Socialists have a long history of wearing out one label and 'reinventing' themselves under a new one. Back around the turn of the 20'th Century 'Socialist' was a perfectly respectable political label. But as it actually went into practice and rapidly descended into the horrors of Stalinism in Russia and then National Socialism in Germany it fell out of favor for reasons which should be obvious to all. (If it isn't obvious to you, get off slashdot and pick up a history book!)
Thus the modern 'Liberal' was born. Swiping the name made respectable by the Classical Liberals of the 18 and 19th Century was a genius stroke of marketing. But by the 1970s and 1980s it had become obvious that people had caught on to the fact that the modern "Liberals" where the same old income redistributionists and group rights race baiters under a new name and if an opponent hurled the label "Liberal" and made it stick a pol was toast.
The Democratic party didn't start to face that reality for another decade when the "New Democrats" were born and Bill Clinton ascended to the White House. Then promptly set out to govern as caricitures of Liberalism, leading the voters to respond by creating Speaker Gingrich and Pres. Clinton stuffing a sock in Hillary's mouth and tacking towards the center a bit. But the "New Democrats" had an element in their movement who actually wanted to change the soap, not just design a new box with "New & Improved" on the label.
We now know which side won that battle for the Democratic Party. So now we have the Howard "I have a scream" Dean phenom and the "Progressive" movement, which is the same Socalists/Liberal ideas fired by anger now that the Democrats are nominally out of power for the first time in recent memory. Disagree with my assessment? Well then name some major policy differences between the three labels?
I'm not yanking code words out of my ass and seeing Commies under every rug, I'm reading their fucking webpages you silly twit. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to read a few of the fringe nutjob's webpages to confirm for yourself that 'critical theory' prattle almost always appears on pages by obvious crackpot Marxists. After all, they needed a new name for Marxism since even the Russians don't want anything to do with it anymore.
Which brings us to this specific asshat. He is making very public statements threatening to release chemicals to DESTROY CROPS! Should we really wait until he actually does it? Or knowing the gutless nature of most academic green terrorists, gets one of his young and stupid students to do it for him.
Democrat delenda est
> Under the Patriot Act (and don't kid yourself into thinking parts of it
> are not classified) if I tried that now I personally would be charged
> with obstruction of justice.
I call bullshit. There are no 'secret' sections of the PATRIOT act. We can;t be expected to obey laws we can't possibly know anything about. I work in a public library and went through all this tinfoil hat stuff already when all the Nadorites went into a frenzy. (Think I'm being extreme? Well I was AT the Texas Library Assoc Convention a few months ago and watched Mr. Nader get more standing ovations than Kerry will likely get at the Democratic Convention next month.)
> I am literally not allowed to request a warrant if the Patriot Act is
> brought up.
Wrong. Our orders are that if a Fed asks for ANYTHING we respond that we aren't authorized to do ANYTHING and to pick up the phone for our boss. She will get in touch with the city attorney (our legal representation of record) and they will handle it from there. But while that happens we should begin collecting the information, but stall on any turnover until we hear from her.
And yes they do nead a warrant to actually take anything, but it is generally considered that a Fed on site will have little problem with that detail and to assume they either already have one or soon will so go ahead and start collecting the requested info. No sense being a total asshole about it.
> Nor am I allowed to tell anyone that the request happened.
Yes, this part IS true. Not sure how I personally come down on this one, but it does make a certain sense. But the more I ponder it the potential for misuse is just fscking huge so I guess I'd prefer to see that section of PATRIOT sunset.
Democrat delenda est
JUST SO YOU KNOW: I'M JOKING.... I DON'T REALLY WANT THE FOLLOWING TO HAPPEN....
;-)
Do you know what this means?! Ban chemistry and biology from our schools! Ban physics and math! Ban art! Leave only English and American History. There's no harm in speaking English, and American History can instill patriotism in young Americans!
Oh, yeah: ban PE too; we don't want strong terrorists!
Mod up please.
;)
;) - oppression only works if all people have the *impression* that public dissent is considered insane from a "majority" and may even be outright dangerous.
Try posting your comment not anon and I'd have added you to my friends list for this classic civil liberty embracing post. Thank you anyway.
If you are afraid of what you say and hide your name deliberately "then the _censors_ will have already won"
If you can't criticize "the ruling party" without fearing crippling ridicule from others (even if it's the "Freepers" et al.) or incarceration by the authorities, it's only a matter of time before real dictatorship is established. Just because it shows no swastika it can be fascism anyway.
And in commemoration of "D-Day" tomorrow, I need to say as a German: thank you for the liberation *but* please make sure your nation does never transform into a fascism. The media cartels and its almost obvious manipulations are making me nervous and the military-industrial complex is already elected vice-president. Please, Americans, learn from German history on what NOT to do and when NOT to remain silent. If the totalitarian trend apparent in all branches of the US government continues I think it could soon be worse than we realize yet.
The state I live in had a catch all piece of legislation known as the "drugs misuse act", which gave "Patriot" style powers. No warrents, prisoners could be held for some time without charge etc - it was abused a great deal by members of the local police force until it was repealed, such a thing will be abused by some even if it is set up with the best intentions. Removing the checks and balances unleases all kinds of actions. Alarm bells should have run the second it was called the "patriot" act - vote against something with a name like that and you'll look bad, no matter what the contents of the bill are, since you would obviously not be a patriot.
As for the bioweapon shadow jumping, what really happened with the anthax? There's been a lot of sideshows and distractions since then.
I've read about fifty comments here, and no one has expressed any sympathy for the guy who has just lost his wife. She was an artist herself, and they worked together on their projects. I am going to assume he loved her.
Put yourself in his shoes. You lose your wife and you get your life turned upside down, at the same time, by the Justice department?
This reminds me of that Oregon lawyer. He had defended someone suspected of terrorist ties. He had converted to Islam. The FBI said there was a match between him and a fingerprint found at the Madrid bombing. But they were wildly wrong. They were told they were wrong.
What is the point of patting yourself on the back for having a "free Country" if you let paranoia around security make you act like a Police State?A grand jury is a replacement for a preliminary hearing, done in secret so that the evidence doesn't have to be published or given to the defense at this stage. It's overseen by a judge to keep the prosecutor in line, but it really is the prosecutor's show. There's no defense lawyer to challenge the witnesses, but the jury members are usually allowed to directly question the witnesses.
The burden at such a proceedure is trivial, because all a grand jury can do is return an indictment. The common joke that a procecutor can talk a grand jury into indicting a ham sandwich is more or less correct, it's a real slap in the face for a grand jury to respond that they were not convinced the burden to get an indictment was met.
This process is done to prevent really pointless trials from even getting started.
Mr Goore was on a campain stop when he made that speech. Don't believe for a minute it was develped by him at all. There is a movment on the "left" to try and discedit bush by any means necessary, including lying cheating and stealing. The only thing huffy and upset was Gore thinking "it's payback for winning against me" .. nothing more.