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First Experiences with X.org's X11 Server?
Slashdot Reader CanadianCrackPot decided to be adventurous and went and installed the latest offering from X.org's X-Server project. Below, you'll find "the basics" of his "first attempt to install [their] X Window Server on a system with a 450 MHz PIII, and Diamond Viper V770 (TNT2 chipset) graphics card, running Mandrake 10.0 Official (FTP download of everything but the RPMS.cooker dir)." To make a long story short, while he did have some luck with installing it, running it was...problematic. He asks: "I'm just wondering how other Slashdot readers are doing with the new X11R6 server, and more importantly, how did you install it?"
"I decided to try installing X.org's X Server today while I had nothing to do here's the results:
- get a test bed system: check
- get sources: check
- ./configure: N/A...I'm worried
- make World: check
- make install; make install.man: check
- startx: crash
- xf86config: check
- startx, again: check -- now I need a manager
- startgnome: galeon not found (crash)
- startkde: crash"
emerge xorg-x11 startx ... had to do it
emerge x11-base/xorg-x11
emerge unmerge xfree
No crashes, no errors, no odd behaviour at all.
(Dell Dimension, P4 2.66, Matrox G400MAX, Matrox drivers, xinerama)
but isn't it no longer xfree86.conf by rather xorg.conf or something like that? Just a thought, not sure if the submitter wrote xfree86conf by accident...maybe that's the problem? Also, Mandrake now has rpm's of it (didn't that get posted today, btw?), maybe you should try installing the rpms?
I did not try to compile xorg, I just installed the default packages from Slack-current installed without any problems. Once that was done, I just renamed XF86Config to xorg.conf, and it worked without ANY problems. If I didn't know I had xorg instead XFree86, I couldn't tell the difference. This is obviously because for now they are virtually identical (other than a few different names).
If the packages are available for your distribution, give those a try to see if you have any incompatibilities. Compiling xorg is not easy, I remember it took me three tries in Gentoo (can't remember what was the problem, this was XFree86 4.1.0). In your case, something tells me that you wouldn't be able to compile XFree86 4.4.0 on your system either.
I'm running X.org, by way of "upgrading" my FC1 install to FC2... a couple of problems: had to change the "XkbRules" option to "xorg".
Now I can't bind most of the multimedia keys to X keycodes. I expect this is related to the XkbRules thing.
Apart from that, its been running fine.
The revolution will not be televised. It won't be on a friggin blog either
I used swaret to upgrade my slackware current install to the X.org packages (x11). Everything worked but fonts rendered poorly (I did recompile and symlink all the freetype libraries to my version that has the bytecode rendering enabled) and my Synaptics touchpad (Dell laptop) didn't function properly in regards to the advanced features. I didn't notice the second item as I don't use those features (my brother does) but the first problem, with the fonts, was very annoying. I'm going back to slackware 9.1 when I get a chance.
I just put in a new 40 gb drive so I loaded up Windows XP to get a little experience with it. Not too bad but Cleartype is a little funky even with 32 bit video. I prefer the freetype rendering under X when it is working nicely.
From you checklist there soudns like you got the xserver running just fine...gnome & kde are completely separate, and may need to be relinked?
Been running it for some weeks without a problem. The upgrade went smoothly.
I would see if there's a source or binary RPM in Cooker and see if it will install.
Installed them off of slackware current.
No problems installing or running.
I'm using debian sid on a dell inspiron 1100 -- first off, getting linux alive on this machine isn't the easiest, and Dell seem to be on a mission to break things with every BIOS release. Oddly enough the bios is on revision 29, and the last revision broke my ability to halt the system. But I digress.
After seeing that distros like mandrake were getting in on the x.org action, i also had a look.
I only had 2 issues:
My experiences have, so far, been ok with x.org's version. Quake3 framerates seem at least as good, perhaps a little better than xfree86, and glxgears reports higher framerates than I remember under xfree. Startup is a little quicker, and X in general seems a little snappier. I don't know how much to attribute to the fact that the running version of X was compiled from source and the original version was binary installed from a .deb. But, purely on an ethical level, I am happy with x.org's version, and I will try it on my desktop when I get back home -- I know the q3 response on that machine a lot better, and that will give me a more accurate feel for x.org's version.
Under Fedora, the single biggest problems I had were:
/usr/X11R6/lib/tls/libGL* files to get the new Mesa renderer to run.
1) Bitchslapping the system into allowing me to install the RPMs - I had to do a few "rpm --erase --justdb --nodeps" on a few things to "resolve" some conflicts.
2) Removing the
Other than that, I had very little problem.
I would suggest checking your X executable with ldd (ldd `which X`) and seeing if you are picking up a bad library somewhere.
www.eFax.com are spammers
x.org's x11 server was simply one of the xfree 4.4 release candidates before the license change, with some patches to bring back up to the 4.4 release. it should be almost absolutely identical to installing xfree86. i'm not sure why this even needed to be posted. there is pretty much no difference to install/configure than xfree 4.4
- tristan
I am afraid Mandrake is not the best distro to experimentally mess with core components. Too many things are tweaked a Mic^H^Handrakesoft's way, the desktops certainly are. It is not easy to rebuild even XFree86 to keep up with those tweaks, so your problems with X.org actually says nothing. And yes, I used to rebuild an XFree86 on Mandrake.
Some other distros, a Slackware for example, use much pure way to build it's own packages which makes them better tool for this kind of experiments.
There you are, staring at me again.
All I know is that Gentoo makes it easy:
/etc/X11/xorg.conf.example
(if you already have xfree installed)
emerge unmerge xfree
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 emerge xorg-x11
xorgconfig or edit
Done. You just need to emerge Gnome or KDE (my fav is Fluxbox)
Install Fedora Core 2, and be done with it.
:wq
I'm using xorg in gentoo.
I worked fine from the beginnig except for 2 things: - fonts that look kind of ugly
- my monitor blanks about 30 min. from boot, I move the mouse and everything back to normal.
Everything else seems to work OK
I'm new to X.org's release and I'm wondering why it's better than Xfree86. Are there any compelling reasons to switch? In my mind, compelling reasons are existing irritations with X that have been resolved (specificially the issues between switching among text and X consoles)...
Anyone care to post a few reasons why we should switch?
Please note: Slackware has switched, and since slackware is my Distro of Choice (DioCh - [pronounced: deeotch]), I'm going to end up using it in the end anyway. I'm just curious to know whats so great about it...
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
I have never got it to compile cleanly. Despite it being very similar (if not exactly the same process) as XFree86, for some reason I never got the darn thing configured correctly. However, never had a problem compiling for DRI support with XFree86 from CVS source.
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Right now, there's no reason to switch.
But, since the developers have reorganized you can expect X.org to add many features that XFree will not add in the future.
Since they're nearly identical I'd wait off on it.
Photos.
I'd imagine you could install the experimental cvs X-Server too, portage is huge and extremely well maintained.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
I thought the article was talking about xserver and xlib :)
Now those are a real challenge to install on your own.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
using lunar linux. It automatically replaced xfree86, no need to specifically install startx as it comes with the XOrg package already. Didn't need to adjust any config files... the old one just works fine on all boxes I upgraded (nvidia setup, ati fglrx 9500, and an old trident based laptop).
Point your browser to http://forums.gentoo.org and do a search for xorg. You'll find all the information that you'll ever need.
--- No, english is not my mother tongue.
As noted in another post, X.org and XFree86 are basically identical code-wise. The only difference is that X.org has a more palatable license, which is why all the major distros switched over so quickly.
The other reason requires looking into the mysterious future... basically, politics at XFree86 were getting in the way of development, which was part of the reason for the fork; in 1 year's time, you can expect X.org to have a vibrant community of developers, with all funky new features in the X server, while XFree86 just sits and stagnates.
Read up about the X.org server
I installed from the Gentoo Linux xorg-x11 6.7.0 ebuild (onto a Gentoo box, oddly enough). The ebuild authors did a good job, so it downloaded, compiled and installed happily.
I did have some difficulty with the ATi binary graphics card drivers for my Radeon 9800 Pro... the installed ones wouldn't work with X.Org, and the ebuild insisted on having XFree86 available. I haven't checked to see if the ebuild's been updated to handle X.Org, but I would expect it has. I'm not that bothered anyway, as I don't game under Linux very much, so the open source drivers work very nicely, as I get decent 2D performance, and Xv so I can watch DVDs.
I may revise my opinion on the value of good 3D acceleration for my Linux desktop when there's an OpenGL compositing X server available, but the drivers for that are likely to be completely different anyway.
Miri it is whil Linux ilast...
I had no problem making the change on my slackware systems. /var/log/packages /slack_current/slackware/x
1. Pulled slackware_current (actually I rsync it every night)
2. cd
3. removepkg xfree* (the difference in the names between the old xfree packages and the new x packages caused the upgradepkg utility to fail to recognize this as an upgrade...wish he would fix that kind thing this is not the only time its happened.)
4. cd
5. installpkg *.tgz
Done, worked no problems
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Does the nvidia driver work without fiddling with XF86Config/reinstallation? I gather that the split between xfree and xorg doesn't affect the nvidia driver, which is supposed to work on both, but any experiences whether this is actually the case on Gentoo? Also, might be worth running "quickpkg xfree" just in case.
Portage is an executable wonder!
Why install from source if you don't really know what you're doing? Let your distribution take care of everything for you,
Why make world? It's from the Open group example code for an X-server. There really isn't a huge amount difference between XFree86 and decendants and the example code from the Open group - you certainly do have a right to be worried. It shows the XFree86 group were mostly just writing video card drivers for all of those years, and that we are well free of them. The better implementations of X on linux hit barriers of not enough people buying them (I didn't either) and not getting the info to write drivers for popular cards (like most of the ones I had).
So far, I've had nothing but trouble with the new X.org. I've recently installed Fedora Core 2, which was a dumb idea from the start. I have a Nvidia geForce4 ti4400, which doesn't get along nicely with 4k stacks (which is a default kernel setting in FC2). Well, when I tried to run FC2 for the first time, I got all kinds of problems with X (because of the nVidia driver). So being the resourceful person that I am, I used lynx to browse the web and find a solution. The first solution was to download a vanilla kernel from www.kernel.org, and compile without 4k stacks. I did this, but for some reason, X still gave me problems. I then tried rolling back to the generic nv driver that comes with FC, and again, X gives me problems. Story short, I went through about 30 different solutions, none of which work. The closest I've gotten is X starts, but it just sits there on a black screen. I can get Xtern to work, but not much else. I'm waiting on the new nVidia drivers, maybe everything will work with a set of good drivers, and the default Fedora settings, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Maybe it's just FC, but as far as I can tell, X is just being bitchy.
--untwisted
Well, that doesn't explain your session managers crashes, but you don't seem to have RTFM:
./configure: N/A...I'm worried
X configuration is done via xc/conf/cf/host.def and xc/conf/cf/site.def.
blah
Beyond Linux From Scratch has step-by-step instructions for installing many packages from source, including the latest Xorg.
Accelerated-X!!! There's also Metro-X, though Metro Link's webpage appears to be down and I can't find them otherwise.
Laugh all you want about paying for commercial software, but when it comes to these quality products, it's worth it.
Doing a fresh install of Gentoo 2004.1, I thought I would try out X.org's X11R6. After a short time compiling, the software was installed and ready to run. I found the xorgconfig program and ran it. After that I edited the xorg.conf in /etc/X11 and updated it to include my mouse settings.
.. Seemed to load a bit quicker than XFree.
/usr/portage/distfiles to /root and ran it myself, after doing this, another modprobe nvidia and a startx and up popped X, so this said to me there is something screwy with Gentoo's way of managing nVidia drivers.
:)
Ran startx and there it was!
I then emerged the nVidia GLX and Kernel drives, updated my xorg.conf and fired up X again, this time it reported "No screens found", due to the kernel module not being loaded, an lsmod later showed that it was there.
I copied the nVidia driver from
Two days later, and it's working perfectly, already started another game of Farcry and Call of Duty! (Yes, they do run on Linux with a little bit of fiddling)
Anyway, I can quite happly say that I am impressed with X.org's X11.
Since upgrading from RH9 to FC2++, I have been able to have a xinerama display between the laptop LCD, and the external monitor, even running the displays at different resolutions.
FWIW, it is a Radeon-7500.
I do have a couple of obscure problems. I reported the most pressing problems...
1. When I startup a vncviewer or an xnest, control keys are not forwarded to windows in VNC or Xnest.
2. Gnome panels are a bit quirky. It insists on having the gnome-panel be entirely on one screen. If I have a gnome-panel on my LCD, and start VNC - then the panel is moved to my LCD screen. This is even worse if I try to have a separate panel on each screen for equivalent screen locations.
3. Usually windows pop up on the same screen as the mouse pointer. If that screen is full of windows, and the other screen has space, it usually pops up there instead.
Where law ends, tyranny begins -- William Pitt
well, i wasnt able to type out all those fancy altgr-whatever (on be-latin1 you need these to get an @, #, |, ...) combinations after emerging xorg,
but other then that i was thrilled !
i am using a matrox g450 with two dell flat panel monitors. right out
of the box, they were both enabled in "clone" mode.
step 2: i just used the advanced tab under preferences: screensaver to
enable display power management. i set power management enabled. standby
after 15 min, suspend after 15 min, and off after 15 minutes. this
automatically enabled the power features. i did not have to add any
lines the x configuration file as in previous versions of redhat.
step 3: become root and edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
after the section entitled
Section "Module"
blah
EndSection
I inserted these lines:
Section "ServerFlags"
Option "Xinerama"
EndSection
I saved and pressed control-alt-backspace to restart the xserver. after loggin in again,
i went to system settings: display.
there appeared a tab labeled "dual head" i clicked "use dual head"
then i configured my second monitor and picked spanning desktops.
after hitting ok, i hit ctrl-alt-backspace again and presto!!!!!!
xineraman was enabled with power management. i did not install any of the matrox drivers or use the mgapdesk utility.
i just used the above instructions and that was it right out of the box....
also as to everyone badmouthing fedora core 2 , i am very impressed and
have found a great many features that have been improved and generally
well thought out. i am very glad i upgraded....
if anyone wants to see my xorg.conf file here it is:
# Xorg configuration created by system-config-display Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Multihead layout" Screen 0 "Screen0" LeftOf "Screen1" Screen 1 "Screen1" 0 0 InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" Option "Xinerama" "on" Option "Clone" "off" EndSection Section "Files" # RgbPath is the location of the RGB database. Note, this is the name of the # file minus the extension (like ".txt" or ".db"). There is normally # no need to change the default. # Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together) # By default, Red Hat 6.0 and later now use a font server independent of # the X server to render fonts. RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" FontPath "unix/:7100" EndSection Section "Module" Load "dbe" Load "extmod" Load "fbdevhw" Load "glx" Load "record" Load "freetype" Load "type1" Load "dri" EndSection Section "ServerFlags" Option "Xinerama" EndSection Section "InputDevice" # Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1)) # Option "Xleds" "1 2 3" # To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable. # Option "XkbDisable" # To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the # lines below (which are the defaults). For example, for a non-U.S. # keyboard, you will probably want to use: # Option "XkbModel" "pc102" # If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use: # Option "XkbModel" "microsoft" # # Then to change the language, change the Layout setting. # For example, a german layout can be obtained with: # Option "XkbLayout" "de" # or: # Option "XkbLayout" "de" # Option "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys" # # If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and # control keys, use: # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps" # Or if you just want both to be control, use: # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps" # Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "keyboard" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" Option "Emulate3
I upgraded my FC1 installation (Athlon 2800+, NVidia GeForce4) which had XFree86 to FC2 which had XOrg's server - it upgraded cleanly and I now use XOrg with no issues. Except that I warnings about XKB mappings every time I log in - but this hasn't affected my UK keyboard at all.
-- Manik Surtani
sorry, i didn't feel like :)
insertion after
all the x file entries
The Cygwin/X project recently switched from the XFree86 branch to the X.org branch in their implementation of an X server for Win32. It works great, and even has new features, like OpenGL support, and rootless windows (ie, your local or remote X windows are seemlessly mixed with your Windows app windows).
samrolken
On Mandrake 10: