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Japanese Balloon Battle
mw2040 writes "Slate reports on a little-known method used by the Japanese during WWII - hydrogen-filled paper balloons with deadly payloads floated without a guidance-system across the Pacific. Both amazing low-tech warfare and a cautionary tale about censorship during wartime. More links (even one for our neighbors to the North) (shamelessly stolen from the article)."
More and more people thinks that high technology is much more efficient to win a war. I don't think it is necessarily true. :)
On the contrary, i think that low tech can be much more lethal because of their simplicity. High technology requires people to be trained and efficient, while low tech can be done nearly by everyone, increasing the deadliness and the frequency of those attacks.
Again, don't underestimate the use of high technology devices as a simple low tech weapon. For instance, dropping a PC on someone can be deadly
Pelops
Haha. Maybe you forgot about the American firebombing of Japan? Those didn't cause theoretical killings, innocent people actually died. Don't even get me started on the atomic bombs.
As part of the British Empire, Canada were also at war with Japan (although I don't know how much fighting occured directly between the two countries), so accidentally attacking Canada probably still counted as a success for them.
Decode these
Anyway, these bombs weren't intended for a civilian population (the chance of hitting somebody directly would be astronomically low), they would be useful to start forest fires.
Precision isn't always a major requirement. For example dropping thousands of bomblets that are designed to detonate upon handling on a city could have a devastating effect on morale whilst doing relatively little damage to buildings and infrastructure. Kids love picking up unidentified stuff, and people get scared when there's a good chance that they might pick up something that's going to blow up.
Decode these
I'm finding it hard to believe that this comment isn't a troll.
Either that or it displays a very real ignorence of the eithics of bombing during WWII.
WWII was an ugly war. Every nation involved did thing which were, then and now, considered unacceptable. Nations still do today. Unfortunatly many still operate on the principle that the end justifies the means. I think this is actually one of the tenents of Neoconservatisim.
May the Maths Be with you!
Explosive, incendiary or poisonous (fake) currency would have a greater affect than curious bomblets. Everyone would pick them up with great harm to themselves, general morale and the economy.
IANAT (I Am Not A Terrorist)
It was quite an engineering marvel, even if the results were sickening(to this day, parts of rural China will still periodically get outbreaks of the plague because of these weapons labs),
Yes, China and India still have plague outbreaks from time to time. But it's absurd to blame that on Japanese weapons of 50 years ago rather than the more obvious lack of sufficient sanitation in rural areas.
Governments give out all kinds of excuses for censorship. That it will "aid the enemy" or "induce panic". In reality they just don't want bad press.
Censorship is a very thorny issue, but we need total freedom of the press for our society to remain free. The story of "embedded" reporters during the Iraq war was a case in point. Embedded was a euphamisim for censored and reporters felt this. Their skewed reports helped continue the culture of lies and exaggeration that prevailed in the lead up to the war. People were misinformed about that war. From start to finish. Far better for us all to get the story , warts and all, rather than have it dripped and filtered to us by biased parties.
Interestingly, the prevailence of high tech media helped retard the effect of censorship during the war. It was difficult, but no impossible, for the army to censor reporters for very long. The press center in Quatar became redundant as feeds were transmitted directly from the field.
High tech media is also the ONLY reason that we are seeing images of torture from prisons in Iraq.
The media also practices self-censorship by limiting the coverage of disturbing imagery. I think they should give people more credit and stop listening to the easily offended.
The truth is never more distorted than during times of war. But this is the most critical time in which the truth needs to be shown, in all its
truth. We might like like the truth, but we NEED to hear it. We have to hold a mirror up to ourselves. Otherwise we'll start to believe all the rethoric and that would be a vert bad thing.
May the Maths Be with you!
After the Rape of Nanking, its very hard to have any sympathy for any Japanese. [my emphasis]
Because all Japanese supported it? I was under the - apparently mistaken - impression that pre-war and wartime Japan was a dictatorship. Or is this another stunning example of generalising to avoid making real points?
This is where the serious fun begins.
It was a terrorist strike plain and simple - drop the bombs, scare the shit out of everyone and get what you wanted. Couldnt they have atleast dropped the bombs somewhere where everyone would know about them but few or none would be harmed? they could at the same time drop a parachute crate over hiroshima with a big American flag on it just to proove that they could have dropped the bombs anywhere. Or maybe America does support terrorism, just like they support torture..
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then we live in a situation as on the former communistic countries.. maybe still now in China, Cuba, North Korea.
So no thank you, I prefer to live in a country where there's a little less censorship (as far as I know..)
Learn about pinball machines on www.flippers.be
I would like to know more.
Are you saying that you live in a country where you are scared of being overheard discussing an idea?
Where you can get arrested for a thought.
In Soviet Russia... big borther watches you
In the USA.... its the same
Unfortunately we see quite the opposite, when there's a technical or mechanical failure, terrorism is always there as a quick explanation.
Or better yet there was a DARPA project to make bomblets that were 1/2 the power of a hand grenade with proximity sensors . scatter thousands in a area and instant maiming minefield.. I also believethere is a secondary payload for cruise missles that will lay anti-personell mines of this type on it's way to a target.
anyways, the last days of berlin our bombs were unguided and were simply dropped by the bombadier by the thousands doing what was called carpetbombing. we laid waste to the whole city with heavy firebombing where some cellars were sealed and opened day's later the contents burst into flames upon contact with oxygen because the temperatures were so high.
Hell, a old WW-II submarine with unguided WW-II ordinace is still one of the most deadly weapons today and can easily take out the highest tech and largest ships on this planet... an american aircraft carrier.
the technology of the weapon means nothing, it's the abilities of the men behind the weapon.
why do you think that terror/gurellia warfare works so well? they certianly are not using laser guided GPS corrected bombs.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Mods, put down those crack pipes.
Why the hell is the parent modded Funny? Read the link, its about some of the fatalities that occurred,
Your US-centricity is showing. Canada just had a 60th anniversary for D-day in which the Canadian troops were able to drive further into the mainland than any other troops. The US is not the only one who fought and died in WW2. Note that this article is made by a Canadian whose Grandfather fought, Geez!
Stay tuned for new sig...
And of course, the other datum on which the author relies "The balloon bombs were erased not only from our national awareness, but from our collective history. We believe it never happened, just as our children might have been led to believe Abu Ghraib never happened." is false to the point of ludicrousness.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
The thousands of Japanese troops who took part deserved to be tried for war-crimes.
The reamining million Japanese civilians who were either (a) ignorant of Japanese crimes, even actions, in Nanking, (b) opposed to Japanese occupation of part of China, or (c) apathetic should not be lumped together with those who commited crimes. By the same token, "all US citizens should be condemned for My Lai". Bullshit. The original post was a generalisation: God, I hate fools who extrapolate and deal in stereotypes.
This is where the serious fun begins.
Canadians never did burn down the White House. The British did, however, in 1812 (long before Canada existed as a nation). Contrary to popular belief among Canadians, this fact is reported in American textbooks. No one remembers it, though, because no one in the US cares about the war of 1812. It was just a silly grudge war between the US and Britain without any real results. The British burned down the White House. The Americans drove the British out. Whoop-dee-doo.
Canadians, on the other hand, seem to love bringing it up whenever they can, as if it were their nation's finest hour or something. Alright, well, great. You burned down the White House. Good job. We don't care.
The part that makes me scratch my head is, people actually express a mix of indignation and boredom over the original sources. What they seem to want to watch instead is talking heads -- "pundits" -- spewing nonsense.
Imagine the difference with something like this balloon story. You could interview the Japanese policy makers and have them describe why they chose to do it when they did. You could look at blueprints and documents, talk to the makers, and see how the things worked. You could compare this to other intercontinental weapons -- interesting angle -- to see how their (potential) use might be different. World War II as the genesis of "strategic" weapons and the end of the distinction between combatant and non-combatant populations, you know?
But no, we'd put lots of bilious fools on TV to remind us that the Japanese hated America, or some such stupidity. Because supposedly, the other stuff, the real history, is boring. Or so our TV ratings would seem to suggest. Cut to political ad in which Japanese face "morphs" into the face of myu political opponent. It's depressing.
But then, I actually watch C-Span...
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Sadly, those days are over. Canada's military is a joke, milquetoasts like Sweden and Finland are better these days.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
In an unfortunate coincidence, US made cluster bombs looked very much like, and were the same color as, the "meals ready to eat" packages we air dropped for humanitarian missions. It went poorly. They've since changed the color of the bomblets.
-B
Though this article was intended to demonstrate the dangers of wartime censorship, the actual history demonstrates a quite different viewpoint.
The ballon attack plan was never to cut power lines and blow up family picnics. The Japanese had been working for many years on the effective use of biological weapons, and had every intention of using them with the balloons once they had some idea of whether they were reaching the US. Blowing up picnics should have provided them immediate, specific targeting feedback through the US media - much better targeting intelligence than would have been provided by a bizarre outbreak of bubonic plague in the Pacific Northwest.
Slate's having compared this to burying memos and hiding prisoner abuse scandals, secrets that are kept solely to protect political interests rather than military ones, demonstrates not only a catastrophic failure to understand history, but further weakens the credibility of anyone speaking out against that very same modern politically driven censorship.
Nice going, Slate.
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
The casualties are noteworthy because they're the only people killed inside the United States by a foreign military since the Brits burned DC in 1812. There was fighting in Alaska and (obviously) Hawaii during WWII, but they weren't states yet.
-B
What a troll.
Until our (u.s.a) ill-planned assault on the Iraqi people, it's highly likely Canada would have stood by the U.S. even if Britain had declared open war on us.
Fat chance of that now, with people like you bashing them at every opportunity.
Firstly, Little boy and fat man were both A-bombs, the N-bomb was developed far later and never used in actual warfare. Secondly they wern't guided, they were parachute retarded. Thirdly one of the reasons Hiroshima was chosen over Kyoto as the target of the first bomb is that Hiroshima had a larger amount of military infrastruture.
Forthly, the Japaneese started the war in the pacific. They invaded China, Malasia, Singapore and New Guinea amongst others. They sunk British and American merchant ships, they murdered millions of chineese civilians in cold blood, they carpet bombed Darwin, they starved POWs and they torpedoed American warships without declaring war. Basically they started an evil war, and the Americans had to nuke them in order to get them to stop. This is a little different than sending baloons over the pacific in order to help their tyranny over Asia to continue.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
Exactly. The fact that hardly anyone knows about it says more about the ignorance of the American population than about the evils of censorship.
This reminds me of a recent survey of English schoolkids that found most were ignorant of D-Day. Perhaps the guys at Slate think that's because of government censorship too.
I think censorship is almost always bad, but this article seems like a weak case against it.
in my Japanese history class (well no shit I'd hear about it there)
Ironically, world war 2 is little known in Japan itself.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
After 9/11, Bush talked about a crusade -a war, a religious war- and before 9/11 there had been attacks against the US. Al-Qaeda saw it as a war... a religious war.
So I guess all this is just OK, since it's not really terrorism, but just war, right?
I'm not saying this to troll, I just want to point out that language is an important part of this, and the definitions are fuzzy.
Trying to make a distinction between war and terrorism will lead us to a path of justifying mass murder that is meant to only kill, while condemning mass murder that is meant to paralyze by fear. You could say both feed the other, but they are not always very easily distinguished. Could we commit mass murder without scaring people? Will we really scare people if we reassure them we don't want to kill or hurt them?
It's a lot easier in my mind... I view war as inherently wrong, an obsolete way of dealing with conflicts, which are a natural part of human society. Not all conflicts are bad or avoidable, but organized violence shows a monumental failure to manage and/or transform them.
Information: "I want to be anthropomorphized"
There was quite a bit of doubt about the American and Commonwealth ability to defeat the Japanese, all the way up to the summer of 1945.
It is my opinion that in China, Malaya and the Japanese Home Islands that the remaining Japanese Military, while strategically out-maneuvered and out-numbered, had not been defeated on a tactical or unit level by time that the planning phase of Downfall began and therefore, would constitute a serious impediment to the forces attacking Kyushu and Singapore. The forces, to be arrayed against the Japanese home islands and Singapore, would take high casualties as well as inflict vast casualties upon the Japanese Military, armed civilians, non-combatants as well as Allied Prisoners of War in Japanese custody.
Throughout the campaigns the United States conducted in late 1944 and early 1945, the Japanese military on the ground showed an increasing ability to judge the American threat correctly. Before the American assault on Okinawa, the Japanese correctly estimated the American ground force size, the size of the American beachheads, the duration in which the Americans would remain in their beachheads, the American breakout tactics, and the focus of the American attack. This is remarkable because, for the most part, no Japanese leaders who encountered American forces in the field after 1943 ever survived to teach lessons to other Japanese staff officers on American tactics and communications between Italy, Japan, and Germany and were limited in this regard.
The Japanese tactic to end the war in a way that was favorable to Japan was to use the Japanese Army and the Japanese people to bleed the American military to the point where it was politically unacceptable to fight further. All the way up to the day after the Hiroshima bombing there were members of the Japanese government's inner circle who advised the Emperor that the Americans were on the verge of defeat.
Yeah, lets not forget that Russia lost more people in WW2 than every other country combined.
He who knows not and knows he knows not is a wise man. He who knows not and knows not he knows not is a fool.
well damn! now we don't have the Canadian military to back us up if we're attacked! whatever shall we do!?