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German Court Fixes Book Prices On Ebay
krez writes "Yesterday, a German court decided that it is illegal to sell books below the prices set by publishing houses. In the court's view, German books are exempt from EU free-market restrictions because they represent an "important cultural good". I guess this is what happens when the rights of collectives, and groups of peoples supersede the rights of the individual to do with his property as he/she sees fit. The implications of this could be far reaching, having an impact on your right to sell old CDs, DVDs, perhaps even art?"
Though the way international law works these days, it wouldn't surprise me to see this judgment fester and infect those of other EU member states or even the US.
--- Kicking the Cheat since late 2002
The German "Buchpreisbindung" (fixed prices for professional sellers) has been in effect for a long time. It has nothing to do with DVDs etc. The only "new" thing about it is the court's decision that it's also valid for eBay, which doesn't really come as a surprise.
Hi. You are not bidding on this copy of harry potter starting at 1$, you are bidding on this extriemely durable shipping container. The book is merely being included to keep the container from blowing away or being crushed during shipping. THank you.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
and will never stay up when taken higher..
The publisher sold the books anyways already ONCE...
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world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I am totally ignorant of German law, but is there a German (or EU) principle in copyright similar to the American right of first sale? Basically, in the States, "once a copyright owner sells a copy of his work to another, the copyright owner relinquishes all further rights to sell or otherwise dispose of that copy." Does this not pertain in Europe? When do the copyright owner's rights end? Do they ever? This could be a dangerous precedent, especially if it contradicts the established legal tradition.
"The court's decision made clear that even private sellers have to stick to the fixed book price if they regularly sell new books. "
Looks like if they are used books, you have no restrictions... now we have to have "used" defined......we are from the government - we are here to help...
It's not over yet. There are higher level courts in Germany and EU, aren't there? I bet they won't see German books as important enough cultural good to exempt them from EU free market.
Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
It's similar to not being able to sell tickets for a sporting event or concert to people below their listed price.
Totally Life!
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So I take it that German copyright law doesn't include the same Right Of First Sale that the U.S. law does? Basically, U.S. law gives us the right to resell, or rent, copyrighted works. The VHS rental market would never have taken off if not for the right of first sale, for example.
I'm no expert on this though, especially not for European laws -- can someone comment on why Germany can get away with this?
In France the price of books is fixed by law, and is allowed only a very small variance (along the lines of 5%, and only for special operations i think). The direct consequence of this is that you can still find small and/or specialized bookshops in almost every part town .
Now, this is not the case for records. As a direct result there is very few specialized/independant recordshops left since the buying power of them hudge megastores allowed for unrivalled price and almost no independant recordshop survived.
Consequence : everybody goes dumb from hearing the lame music the megastore sells & promote.
Moreover the price is not that low either, since they are the only one left and can do as they please.
With that aggravating beauty, Lulu Walls.
Over here prices where set, but the big sellers got together and refused to stock a publishers books unless the let them set the price. A court case followed which the sellers won. I encourage Germans to ignore the rule and hope the law sees sense.
No one in his/her right mind will buy a used book and pay the same price as for a new one PLUS shipping. This decision litterally kills 1st sale law, which used to give individuals the right to do as they please with their owned goods: you're not allowed to sell under the given price, and no one will buy from you anyway.
So now the german book publishing industry has neatly buried its biggest competitor (their own customers!) through litigation. This is a sad day for individual freedoms.
Maybe we deserve this world ?
Scalpers wouldn't do very well if they sold tickets below the price they paid for them. In fact, I think it's legal in most places to sell the tickets you bought for less than their listed price - the problem is people who make money reselling them at higher prices.
If someone was buying up every copy of a book and then ransoming them on EBay for huge prices, that would be a different situation. It also wouldn't work, as if a book is scarce they just print more. They can't just print more seats in a stadium. Scalping did work (for some) with PS2's and other rare commodities.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
This restriction is only on the selling of new books. You can still sell your second hand books on there below the list price.
If you didnt read the article, it was a suit brought about by a bookseller against a reviewer who was selling unread review copies of books on ebay for under the new selling price.
I know its slashdot, but try reading the links sometimes. It helps when you want to discuss it.
First off, This court case is about a journalist selling free samples, effectively first sales of those copies, on Ebay. It has nothing to do with used book trade, which is flourishing here, and will continue to do so. About the price fixing of books, which could be considered as a good thing: Most european countries have laws which govern the price of books. The price is fixed, so that small specialty stores will not be outcompeted by big companies, and so that a wide variety in literature is maintained. The idea is that a fixed price for all books will allow publishers to keep publishing books that perhaps are not destined to become as popular as the next harry potter, with popular titles supporting the less popular ones.
And of course books are sold shrink-wrapped so you really have to judge the book by its cover!
But you know Germany is full of anticonsumer laws (lifetime guarantees forbidden, shops may not open on Sunday, sales (discounts) are only permitted twice a year, etc) so this is just one among many.
It would be very unsocialist and not to mention discriminatory (which is banned under German law as a hate crime) to allow competition based on price because it would result in only popular books being sold and so a valuable work like Das Capital couldn't be sold in book stores because it has to make space for some drivel from a capitalist pulp writer.
In Germany and Austria, prices for new books are fixed, i.e. a new book
always costs the same in every bookstore, including web
bookstores like Amazon, so that bookstores don't compete on price.
It does, however, not apply to (a) used books, (b) books
where the rest of an edition is being discounted by the
publishers, (c) books imported from other countries, (d) any other media, like music CDs, DVDs, software etc..
This law was made to protect small bookstores with chiefly literary,
cultural and academic programs from the competition of bookstore
chains (like Barnes & Noble in the U.S.) and mail order bookstores.
While one might have different opinions about free markets and free
pricing, this system indeed works as intended. Unlike in other Western
countries, Germany and Austria benefit from a wealth of small quality bookstores
in every town. In addition, there exists - since decades - a very efficient
national book wholesaler system,
so that any bookstore, regardless the size, can get any available book
for a customer usually on the next day (if it's not on stock in the
store already). Despite all this, Amazon still managed to
establish a hugely profitable business in Germany for various reasons -
the comfort of browsing an online catalogue and because
they offered, for the first time in Germany, an efficient way of ordering
English-language books.
The court decision simply maintains the fixed book price law for Ebay sales of
new books by commercial traders. It does not apply to Ebay sales of
second-hand books.
-F
gopher://cramer.plaintext.cc http://cramer.plaintext.cc:70
It will invade France.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
Only if you sell new books, you have to stick to the fixed prices. And that is what we call "Buchpreisbindung". It guarantees the same price for a book in Austria, Germany and Switzerland and it has good reasons. Basically, if you let resellers set the price, rarely bought books will cost much more, and only the few bestsellers will be cheap.
See this (translation).
This ensures that everyone is able to read books he or she likes, and not only what the masses dictate. Also it allows a publisher to try out something new, without so much risk.
Keep open minded - but not that open your brain falls out...
Buchpreisbindung .... oohhh i see now.
Bush preisbindung
Bush pres bindung
Bush pres dung
Bush president dung
What they are really saying is that they want to protect the inefficient companies that have handling costs of $10, at the expense of the effecient internet sales companies with $1 handling costs.
Because if the free market was to rule, the idiots that can't sell it for less than cover price would be forced to either go out of business, offer service WORTH the over-charging they ofer, or learn how to be more effecient.
This ruling prevents the growth of the companies that could sell the books for $1 handling instead of $10, thereby artifically propping up the ridiculous over-priced book stores.
I read a lot. I buy my books from Barnes and Nobles. I get paper back, not hard cover because of the huge number of books that I buy. I do not use internet services because I like the speed of going in to a book store, picking one I did not know I wanted and begin reading it right away.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Litigation cis ostly even in Germany and EU. The question is if eBay/others will continue litigation.
Deutschland rockt!
If people are truly demanding the varied specialized books the government is supposedly protecting, why should they need special welfare from the government?
One might use almost exactly the same argument against all of copyright as well, as like the price floor on new copies of a literary work, all other monopolies granted under copyright law exist to promote diversity and progress of knowledge (at least in the formulation used by some countries' constitutions). If people are truly demanding the varied specialized books that authors are creating and publishers are publishing because of the economic incentive of copyright, then why should authors and publishers need special welfare from the government in the form of copyright enforcement?