Slashdot Mirror
Arctic Ocean Survey May Reveal Lost World
core plexus writes " A new survey of the depths of the ice-capped Arctic Ocean as reported at Reuters, BBC, and others, could reveal a lost world of living fossils and exotic new species from jellyfish to giant squid, scientists said on Thursday. They speculated that Arctic waters might hide creatures known only from fossils, such as trilobites that flourished 300 million years ago. The international scheme will include probing a 12,470-foot abyss off Canada described by project leaders as the "world's oldest sea water -- a vast, still pool unstirred for millennia, walled by steep ridges and lidded with ice." Bring on the "Jurassic Park" references."
They expect only jellyfish and squids?! Have we learned nothing? What if we awaken some age-old form of life that has been lying dormant in the Earth's seabeds for thousands of years, just waiting fot the perfect opportunity to leap out and assimilate us all?
Well... dunno about you, but I, for one, pre-emptively welcome our new dark-and-gooey overlords!
Just as long as Ed Harris isn't leading the expedition...
With water stuff can go anywhere. Even through little cracks below the Earth's surface. Most water dwellers have tiny immature forms that can penetrate these little cracks and end up anywhere. I doubt this will turn out like Australia or the mythical lost world.
"... -- a vast, still pool unstirred for millennia..."
Until we taint it with our presence.
Upon seeing the box was too small, Schrodinger's Elephant breathed a sigh of relief.
as an ocean engineer I feel compelled to point out that exploring the depths of the ocean is an assload harder than exploring space. Accordingly we've explored far less of it than space. Technologies are advancing but most of them are directed towards making existing technologies more efficient. We really don't have any improvments for reaching really deep areas and are still using technology pioneered in the 70s.
More like this year's straight-to-video shark movie Megalodon
considering that that pool is completely sealed from the outside world would mean that anything in it isn't resistant to infections from the outside world or the other way around...
so couldent it be that once humans put a crack in that icy shield that protects the pool, that some human deseases, to which humans have already build a resistance, that these deseases infect the ancient inhabitants of that pool, creating a slaughter among them... or the other way around...
so... altho the stuff they'll find can prove valuble to science, I would aproach with caution if I was them...
All indicators show that the human race is selectively breeding itself for stupidity.
Who put the word "living" in there?
That sounds more like a deep, lidded, watery grave.
There won't be photosynthesis nor water circulation to supply oxygen. There will only be something alive if there is a geologic heat source.
I know this!" Oh, other Jurassic Park references?
(and before anyone replies, i know that the 3d file manager for irix actually does exist...)
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
How about Mountains Of Madness? Cthulhu awaits!
See?
This
Canada Basin has already been checked out in a mission in 2002 which you can read about here. I guess this time round it's so they can have a jolly good look. I wonder if they'll find any aluminium cans or plastic bags at the bottom :)
:)
As one reader pointed out, exploring the deep ocean is harder than space. I guess that's why they felt compelled to put a flag at the bottom.
Remove the icy lid with a nuclear bomb.
Sometimes the world needs Godzilla.
If its anything like my fridge, they'll find new life alright! But seriously, I think its funny how many "living fossils" were discovered by accident. Examples: ratfish, coelacanth, wollemi pine, etc.
I've discovered a remarkable proof, but this margin is too small to contain it...
Bring on the "Jurassic Park" references.
Its a UNIX system! I know this!!!
Thats all I remember from Jurassic Park, and I am not sure how it applies...
I wish I could play a good practical joke on these guys a la the Dino the Dinosaur placed in front of a webcam at some New Zealand volcano.
Perhaps a printout from Outlook conspicously placed on the ocean floor that reads "J3llyF1sh, Squ1d - 1ncr3ase your t3ntacle s1ze by at l3ast one f0ot."
this 300 million year old climate change could only have come from Halliburton's secret time machine, designed Dick Cheney for vast personal profit. All those species wiped out by corporate greed.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Hello, I am a physics student. Astronomy is a hobby, and fusion is something I want to make a living in for at least a few years.
The last few weeks/months however it has occurred to me that most people tend to focus on how to get into space. While most deep waters are uncharted(?) or at least unexplored.
Most likely I am just plain ignorant about the oceans and a lot is know.
Perhaps you can point to me to some interesting sites/books/papers or the like. I am more interested in the physics than the engineering though.
I am not sure where I want to go with this post. Then again two years ago I hardly knew about the existence of a tokamak. So I guess it's just a quest for some info for a quick look around in the field.
I am curious.
Like the plotline to Alien vs. Predator... No don't go! It's a trap!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I think Cthulhu references are more appropriate.
meh
my great^10000 (or place a googol here) grand father's body to be finally uncovered
The Abyss
------ Work is so much easier when you don't
As ice changes, so does the ecosystem. Polar bears cannot walk on water, for example.
There are also global consequence of Arctic change that worry climate scientists. For one thing, there is a nonlinear feedback loop since ice has a high albedo. Thus, ice reflects solar radiation back to space, which keeps the system cool. But water has a much lower albedo than ice. This yields a nonlinear feedback loop. Melting ice creates open water, which absorbs more heat, which melts more ice. There was a time when USSR scientists suggested we could open up a northwest passage through the Arctic simply by painting the ice black, setting this feedback loop into action. Of course, if the ice melts, navigation will be easier through the Arctic. Traffic may avoid Panama and go through a more direct route. Part of this traffic could be oil tankers, which can run aground, causing great damage to a system already damaged by the climate change.
So they found where our parliment goes for their summer break
You can check this for info about some bacteria that survive in vacuum and some bacteria that have actually been declared "living" after 30 million years
The article says about spores,
"In terms of our computer analogy, a bacterial spore is like a handheld calculator that has repackaged itself into its original protective shipping carton and turned itself off."
I would love to have one such calculator
here are some pages pictures taken from norfanz, the last major survey of deep aquatic life
as reported here of course
those are some weird looking animals
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
You mean quebec?
just because its a closed system doesn't mean that there is no oxygen or no life. for all real purposes, the Earth is a closed system too.
apologies.. i really should preview.
step out from under your rock. There has been a substantial amount of literature published on seep and vent communities at depths of over 4000 m. There are patches with lots going on. Don't get me started on Archaea.
Yes, but only if it was much . This tiny closed system could not possibly support an entire ecosystem. It's all vaporware to get more research funds.
This account has been seized by the GNAA. That is all.
Don't be worried. Whats the worst that could happen?
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
Seep and vent communities are not sealed off from the outside world by a thick layer of ice. These systems receive nutrients that fall off from the surface and heat and minerals from the volcanic vents. This area that was found has none of the basic requirements for life to exist.
This account has been seized by the GNAA. That is all.
when the primary producers could be chemoautotrophic bacteria (which are microscopic and require no light), the size of this pond appears much larger. I'd be VERY supprised if they do not find life down there.
Since you are mixing up seep and vent I don't think I will bother arguing with your ignorance. Seep communities form at hydrocarbon seeps, which are plentiful thanks to methane hydrates (clathrates) which are ubiquitous in deep water. I find it hard to believe that vents which have been observed in almost every deep water setting will not be found here. And no seeps aren't always on top of hydrocarbon basins. Do a little reading in some journals before you replay thanks.
So the lifeforms we already know that don't need oxygen nor sunlight doesn't really exist ?
>> "world's oldest sea water -- a vast, still pool unstirred for millennia, walled by steep ridges and lidded with ice."
Until we came along and screwed up yet another ecosystem beyond repair. Can't we just leave shit alone?
Ryosen
One man's "Troll, +1" is another man's "Insightful, +1".
you sir are an uneducated idiot. They've found assloads of life both complex and single cellular around geothermal vents far below any sunlight or oxygen. Watch some discovery channel for christs sake.
I think I saw an X Files about this...
it didn't end well.
On the other hand, I'd like a miniature pet trilobyte...
Check out my sysadmin blog!
That's not nearly old enough to find anything interesting.
Time will tell who is the ignorant person here...
BTW I have some Martian bacteria samples for sale if you are interested in it...
This account has been seized by the GNAA. That is all.
...Christ!
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
His Score already said he was redundant, I'm sure you didn't need to make a post saying as much.
300 million years? Might be a little stale...
Imagine using this thousand of years old water to make the perfect brew. Take that stuff made with Rocky mountains water elsewhere Coors, we've got pre-historic water in our frosty beverages!
This account has been seized by the GNAA. That is all.
How many Assloads are there in a Library of Congress?
I prefer the Cliffs of Insanity myself.
I, for one, welcome our new aquatic velociraptor overlords.
Maybe THAT is where Atlantis is!
I try to make everyone's day a little more surreal.
Well, it sure is a good thing all them fancy-pants scientists with their crazy ideas and book-learnin have you around to set them straight!
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
"Virus" itself, in the modern sense, is a made-up word -- or did you think Caesar and Octavian talked about smallpox vaccination?
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Not really. Only the association with a small nearly-lifeform is new. "virus" itself just means "slime" or "poison" in the old Latin.
You're wrong.
With bonus, the plural was boni. Well, there were a lot of plural forms... boni, bonorum, bonis, bonos. So I don't know what you're talking about it having but one plural form identical to its singular. There are many words similar to what you describe in Latin, but bonus is not one of them.
I also don't know about the other words, since I'm too busy to get my old Latin dictionary out, but I'd wager to bet that they get declined in either the second or fourth declensions and have multiple plural endings (though I will give you that the plural nominative of fourth declension masculine and feminine forms are indentical, maybe this is what you're thinking of?)
Oh, and if a word is assimilited into a new lnaguage, the plural of that new language is far and away apporporiate for usage with the new word, especially when there is already a class of native nouns that function similarly when pluralizing but have entirely different endings -- the likelihood that the non-native nouns will ever form their own class in the new system is nil. Use some common sense.
BLING BLING. Meet the architecture that's changing everything.
Actually, my first thought was of something about 80 years before Crichton's Jurassic Park and The Lost World: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's novel The Lost World, in which he introduced Professor Challenger. Dinosaurs, action, adventure, and a good bit of humor--from a master storyteller. Worth digging up, if you're not too anal about the science (which was really pretty good for its day).
I figure by 2030 or so my 6-digit UID will be something to brag about.
and a big chunk is going to fall off?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
"world's oldest sea water -- a vast, still pool unstirred for millennia, walled by steep ridges and lidded with ice." Bring on the "Jurassic Park" references."
For those of us who have studied that dread work, the Necronomicon, the truth is not Jurassic Part but the the Elder Gods. Yes, my slashdot fellow readers, what will be found are those who were here before us. Trapped for millions of years behind the walls of ice will be found those who came from beyond. Behind the icy barriers they have waited, only now to be awakened. We can at least take heart in the fact that this is the northern polar climbs. If it were the cold icy regions of the south pole (where the Mountains of Maddness lie), those released elder Gods would come forth to gorge on penguins. The horror! The rejoicing in Redmond! None of us can question which operating system Cthulhu would use! At least we are spared this fate.
That was the popular belief before they found entire thriving ecosystems living thousands of feet deep, deriving their energy from geothermal vents in the sea floor. No light, little or no oxygen, and yet these creatures get all they need from the chemical soup pouring from these vents.
I am not suggesting there are vents in this area, just that nature can surprise us.
"Life will find a way."
There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
They won't find great new ecologies full of living fossils.
... poisoned from the massive dumping of radioactive waste into the Arctic Ocean basin by the former Soviet Union.
They will find the remains of those ecologies, that have died in only the last 50 -60 years
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
Wrong. The plural of "virus" is "viruses". English word: English plural.
'jfb
To spur "enterprise Linux," Big Bang, the distributed two-phase commit.
-kgj
Until we came along and screwed up yet another ecosystem beyond repair. Can't we just leave shit alone?
No. No, we can't.
-kgj
-kgj
What about KRAKEN? It's what other humans have been calling the big suckers for about 2.5 centuries now. Biologists renaming the creature (and poorly too) is nothing but arrogance. It's like other human beings without PhDs couldn't spot a new species. You can just imagine any poor sailor that'd actually seen one of these deep-sea puppies at the dockside trying to explain to a nimrod labcoat "No! No! I keep telling you: it wasn't a giant squid - it was a MOTHER-FUCKING ENORMOUS FUCKING MONSTER squid!"
Anyway, poetry to add a breath of life into your stale, sterile, buttoned-down, airbag-cushioned existences:
Below the thunders of the upper deep;
Far far beneath in the abysmal sea,
His ancient, dreamless, uninvaded sleep
The Kraken sleepeth: faintest sunlights flee
About his shadowy sides; above him swell
Huge sponges of millennial growth and height;
And far away into the sickly light,
From many a wondrous grot and secret cell
Unnumber'd and enormous polypi
Winnow with giant arms the slumbering green.
There hath he lain for ages, and will lie
Battening upon huge seaworms in his sleep,
Until the latter fire shall heat the deep;
Then once by man and angels to be seen,
In roaring he shall rise and on the surface die.
The Kraken by Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Yeah, that's right: Kraken's got better poets working for him than that big insaniac douche-bag Cthulhu.
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors - Plato
"With bonus, the plural was boni. Well, there were a lot of plural forms... boni, bonorum, bonis, bonos."
Ok Mr Latin Expert, wheres "boner"?
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Back in the 80's I worked on the Honeywell CP-6 operating system. This was pre-GUI, of course. Across CP-6, you typed "help " at program prompts to get info (just like MS-DOS now). I forget what system program you had to be in, but if you typed "help sam" at the right spot, you got the complete text of "The Cremation of Sam McGee", the earliest "easter egg" I ever saw.
I figure by 2030 or so my 6-digit UID will be something to brag about.
You may want to do a little research into undersee volcanic vents. Until a few years ago (less than 15) we thought the areas around them were simply too toxic to support any form of life, especially since the water can be superheated to 500+ degrees fahrenheit. The scientists of the time were proven wrong. There are organisms on this planet that don't need light, there are organisms that don't need oxygen, and there are almost certainly organisms that need neither (I just can't think of any off the top of my head). Don't be so close minded. Given to age of the area it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they found some pretty amazing things they we've thought to be extinct, even if it's just a Coelacanth which we now know isn't extinct.
"'Save the planet! Save the planet!' Bullshit!
The planet is fine.
The people are fucked!"
Trilobytes were the equivalent of our modern bytes in the Atlantean Computer Network. Each trilobyte represented three bits, based on an ancient logic system of 'Yes,' 'No,' and 'Maybe.'
;-)
Hey, we had to get the idea of 'fuzzy logic' from somewhere!
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
here's what they found...h eLostWorld /images/lwtv3.jpg2 50x.com/pics/veroni ca/veron1.jpgl lorNothing13.jp g
http://silentmoviemonsters.tripod.com/T
http://www.thelostworldonline.
http://www.solitaryphoenix.com/LWA
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Shut the fuck up; it's evident you're a novice in this field. Go contract a few viruses and die.
Walking through forests of palm tree apartments ---
Scoff at the monkeys who live in their dark tents
Down by the waterhole --- drunk every friday ---
Eating their nuts --- saving their raisins for sunday.
Lions and tigers who wait in the shadows ---
They're fast but they're lazy, and sleep in green meadows.
Let's bungle in the jungle --- well, that's all right by me.
I'm a tiger when I want love,
But I'm a snake if we disagree.