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Airport Monitoring of Travellers via Blackberry

glhturbo writes "According to this article in Mass. High Tech, Massachusetts State Police stationed at Logan Airport will soon have access (via Blackberry handhelds) to "7 billion records" containing information on "nearly 98 percent of the U.S. population, including, for example, a person's prior residence and with whom he or she lived, criminal information, court filings, vehicles owned, and even restricted government data." The database is from a Massachusetts company, LocatePlus, started by a former policeman who was "on the waiting list for the FBI". Seems like a good tool, but major potential for abuse, and hopefully no false identifications."

74 of 268 comments (clear)

  1. Now... by Snagle · · Score: 5, Funny

    Instead of just pulling celebrities out of the waiting line to check them, airport security gaurds can find out where they live!

    1. Re:Now... by drooling-dog · · Score: 3, Funny
      ...and the number one use for the airport security Blackberries:

      Stalking hot babes!

    2. Re:Now... by br0ck · · Score: 2, Informative

      You jest, but it already happens.

      A quote: "I'm not going to be so naive as to say an officer hasn't seen a pretty girl and run her plate," said Carey, who also was once chief in Troy.

      Former Memphis Police Chief Phillip Ludos said the practice is so common it is known simply as "Running a plate for a date."

  2. What if the devices are stolen by MntlChaos · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It'll be really nice to know that there are going to be tons of these little handheld devices with access to these huge dossiers on the whole population.

    1. Re:What if the devices are stolen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      blackberries have the ability to be wirelessly wiped out of data... the BES admin can lock down a device (with a password the admin sets) wirelessly or send the kill command which wipes all data from the device...

    2. Re:What if the devices are stolen by Arial+Sharon,+10pt. · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, I know a guy that helped develop this system. I asked him this very question, and he said that they've had some very sophisticated biometric encryption produced so that only authorised personnel can use them.

      --
      Am I dead yet?
    3. Re:What if the devices are stolen by eean · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I doubt much of any data is going to be on the blackberry. Hopefully there will be some sort of password required to access the database, as well as ensuring only the government owned blackberry's can use it.

    4. Re:What if the devices are stolen by tolan-b · · Score: 2, Insightful

      biometric encryption eh?

      what was the last count of undefeated biometric id systems? somewhere around zero wasn't it?

  3. Is it wireless? by Cat_Byte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If this is wireless I can see someone stealing one of these little suckers, getting the encryption code, and getting access to tons of info they shouldn't have. I could be wrong...just a speculation that made my eyes bigger for a second while reading this.

    --
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
    1. Re:Is it wireless? by Erwos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see how it's any different than any other "personal information awareness" technology in that respect. I mean, there's always the problem that someone who's not supposed to have access gains it (say, by password).

      There are relatively easy ways to help prevent this sort of abuse, too. Will they be implemented? Let's hope so.

      A Blackberry is not exactly the device I would be using to try to get the records of every person in the system, of course.

      -Erwos

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    2. Re:Is it wireless? by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Informative

      A: This service has zero info that you shouldn't have. It's all public records, the scary part of this service is that they seem to have most of the nation's public records about individuals assembled in an easy-to-query form.

      B: Since this company charges by the query, too many queries from a device will likely cause that device quickly be deauthorized by whomever's paying the bill.

    3. Re:Is it wireless? by wo1verin3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>I don't see how it's any different than any
      >>other "personal information awareness"
      >>technology in that respect. I mean, there's
      >>always the problem that someone who's not
      >>supposed to have access gains it (say, by
      >>password).

      The problem that here we're talking wireless which means a passive attack until the encryption is broken, you may not be able to detect an intrusion until it has already occured.

      Did you the article a while back about an airport security guard leaving their firearm in the washroom? You don't think it'll be easier to put down a blackberry?

    4. Re:Is it wireless? by camusflage · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If this is wireless I can see someone stealing one of these little suckers, getting the encryption code, and getting access to tons of info they shouldn't have.
      Actually, this is one I can speak intelligently to. The device is BUILT from the ground up to be secure. I work for a large US bank. We implemented the BES, or blackberry enterprise server, approx. eight months ago. We now have 500 of these devices deployed. They are triple-des encrypted back to the bes in our data center, they are wipable OTA, they wipe themselves after 10 bad passwords, they have the ability to implement strong passwords, they (can be forced to) lock when placed into the holster, they can be limited only to pre-installed applications and transports, TLS and S/MIME can be terminated on the device or the bes/mds, and a whole raft of other security considerations.

      In short, I'm much more worried about the application they access than I am the device and the transport it uses.

      --
      The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
  4. A little scary by MarsDefenseMinister · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is a neat little database, but I have to wonder what the quality of the database is. If it's like other databases, it's sorely out of date. Can't be an easy job to keep tabs on 98% of the population.

    And I also wonder about the false positive rate. Extensive databases might just show up how connected we are. Just like studies that show that a huge number of us are related to the Queen of England through some tenuous tie, if we dug deep enough I bet we could find links between millions of average Joes and people who are terrorists. Insignificant links, but how does the database know that? It comes down to the judgement of the officer, and his training. And any security system that shows a false positive rate is weakened by that. False negatives are much less damaging to security.

    I get a picture in my head from the movie "A Beautiful Mind" where John Nash is in his shed, putting pictures and strings on the wall, showing all the relationships between them. Except, these relationships are going to be in a database, and will be taken seriously just because a computer said so.

    --
    No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
    1. Re:A little scary by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Informative

      This kind of database is only as good as its input. If the public records of any given community are wrong, that mistake will flow into the database...

  5. too much by Admael · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are many things I'd give for the sake of convenience... but this is going a bit too far. I'll take my privacy, thank you very much. Who exactly is going to be able to view this information? And how far does this "restricted government data" extend? It's one thing when it's a trained government officer making sure I'm not toting a shoe bomb. It's another thing when the steward has access to all my records.

  6. Just to be fair.... by spoonyfork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... I should get to know the same information about the people "screening" me.

    --
    Speak truth to power.
    1. Re:Just to be fair.... by winwar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, to answer your question with another question.

      Why not?

      "You are neither trained or vetted in any way to handle such information."

      And those who use it are? In theory yes, but as the data comes from a private company, how do I know they are?

      "You are not bound by any contracts or oaths to up hold the law or protect peoples privacy other than your own."

      If this is public info, used by the government, well then, why can't I have access to it? It can't be privacy, otherwise how can this data be sold/used without my permission? If it is for sale it is a little difficult to claim it is infringing on someone's privacy (although it probably is in reality). Heck, I would be willing to take an oath to see the data-if that isn't good enough, well then I guess that shows you how useful oaths are (they aren't).

      The primary reason I want to see the screeners information: It is the best way to insure that someone cares enough to check the data for accuracy. Embarrassment is a powerful force.

      The second reason: They don't have anything to hide, do they? :)

    2. Re:Just to be fair.... by fdiskne1 · · Score: 2, Informative
      I should get to know the same information about the people "screening" me.

      You can, but you have to pay for it. Go to the the database supplier's webpage and click the Privacy Policy at the bottom. I'm also including the opt-out information which I find disturbing. You will see:

      You cannot opt out of our having your information distributed by LocatePLUS.com. Public records, by law, must be available from the official public records office to anyone who requests them. Accordingly, because individuals cannot opt out of public records databases generally, we do not offer individuals the opportunity to opt out of our public records databases. In order for any database of public records to be useful, the databases must contain all of the information in the public records offices, and we do not remove or suppress any information that is both accurate and publicly available.

      Additionally, because we do not make any nonpublic information available to the general public, we do not offer individuals the opportunity to opt out of the nonpublic databases. Our databases are used by investigators, law enforcement agents and lawyers who are trying to locate criminals, debtors and other bad actors. Accordingly, it would defeat the purpose of our service if we gave these types of individuals the ability to opt out of being found.

      Companies that make nonpublic data available to the general public do offer opt outs, and, in the event that we ever make our nonpublic databases available to the general public, we will implement an opt out for individuals who request it in accordance with the IRSG principles.

      Access to nonpublic information that LocatePLUS.com distributes about you We are happy to provide you with a copy of the nonpublic information about you that is available from our system. At this time, for security reasons, we are not able to process email requests for print outs of personal information. Instead, please send a written request to:

      LocatePLUS.com
      ATTN: Nonpublic information disclosure
      100 Cummings Center, Suite 235M
      Beverly, MA 01915

      The request must contain the following:

      * Your name and complete (current) address
      * Your social security number
      * Your signature
      * Your Date of Birth
      * A check or money order for $25.00 payable to LocatePLUS.com

      Upon receipt of the request, we will search our nonpublic databases using your Social Security number. For security reasons, we will mail the report to the most current address available from the credit reporting agencies. Reports will not be available via email or facsimile. This policy helps ensure that your report cannot be obtained by anyone other than you. If you believe that we may have difficulty verifying your address, please include a daytime phone number with your request so that we may contact you for additional information.
      --
      But why is the rum gone?
  7. Terrorists? by vurg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why would terrorists do the "airline" approach anyway? They know how more secure it is than ever before and they probably have a different plan now. And even if they do that approach, I don't think they will only rely on shaving their beards.

    1. Re:Terrorists? by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think terrorists are going to hijack an airplane and fly it into a building again because they know we won't fall for that one twice. However, knowing who is passing through our airports is still important because that is effectively a border point. We want to keep the known terrorists outside of the country.

      Where this technology comes in is that a cop can instantly test a person's claimed identity against the public records that idendity should have created... if things aren't matching up, this could lead to some questions that they'll want answers to.

  8. Security? by shadowkoder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What happens if one of these are compromised? Does some thief suddenly have access to " restricted government data" on most of the population?

  9. Those Blackberries Will Be Worth A Bundle... by Snagle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Once the government lists them on ebay in 3 years after "forgetting" to erase the access to the database. This sounds like a case of too much important info in the hands of too many incompetent people.

  10. Strong encryption? by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How strong is the encryption used? I'd seriously question both the encryption and the key distribution in a scheme like this. There's plenty of room for mischef.

    --
    "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    1. Re:Strong encryption? by incast · · Score: 2, Informative

      If it goes through the mobile data service of the BlackBerry Enterprise Server (and I'm definitely guessing it does), then it's 3DES and it's FIPS-140 certified. It should be secure enough.

      Not to sound like a marketing drone, but more on the BlackBerry security model can be found at http://www.blackberry.net/solutions/government/sec urity.shtml

  11. What year is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Eh? Is it 1984 or 2004? These days I just can't tell.

    1. Re:What year is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its been 1984 since 1948. What do you think his inspiration was? This shit is not new. Remember the 'red scare'? Technology is just raising the stakes.

  12. what about political activity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I remember the goverment making profiles of people who where doing war protests and the like. Will this information be included in the profile? I also seem to recall an incident where a protester was flagged at harrased at an airport.

  13. "seems like a good tool" by aminorex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think the editor misspelled "incredibly
    fucking evil".

    That's why I stopped flying.

    --
    -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  14. It's not false identifications I worry about... by raehl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I trust 99.9% of cops. But not ALL of them. Here, we're putting a VERY powerful tool into the hands of any state police officer.

    The question is, do they need instant, portable, unrestricted access to such a tool? And the answer is, no, they do not.

    This is the equivalent of giving everyone who needs to use your computer access to the root account.

  15. Secure? by Fiz+Ocelot · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Just doing some quick googling for blackberry security seems to indicate that it may not be "secure". Although I did find something else about a seperate security module as well.

    With all of that data being sent to these things, it could be a treasure trove for identity theft if you could just set up a monitoring/logging device in the airport.

  16. And meanwhile... by GPLDAN · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The truck driver is driving 100 pounds of TNT in a delivery crate right into the airport unchecked. What pisses me off most about this loss of privacy, how your personal information including your underwear size and what are the last 3 videos you rented are - is that for all that work, and all that money spent on technology, they don't do shit to actually secure the place. You think you can drive a truck up to an El Al airliner in Tel Aviv unchecked? Not unless you want a .50cal Barrett round in the chest from 5000 meters away before you get anywhere NEAR the airliner.

    Read Marcus Ranum's book, the "Myth of Homeland Security." Yay, we paid for a bunch of blackberries that will get lost or stolen and some tech firm pocketed good change with a fat ass Oracle project. Yay.

    You, the passenger, aren't one damn bit safer. Tell yourself that while you watch the truck load the pretzels and soda pop out the window while the guys are looking in your toiletry bag at your toothbrush and blackberrying to see if you ever lived in Hoboken, NJ.

    Lastly, you know why the terrorists picked Logan to board? As CNN and others reported in the weeks that followed 9/11 - Logan's security was known to be the worst on the eastern seaboard.

  17. When I was a GOV Drone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I used to work in a Gov. office collecting money. Whenever a really cute girl came in, I would look up her address, DOB, license plate #, and that's all I had access to. When (very rarely) questioned as to why did this, I would respond "I have to varify her info." - we didn't keep SSNs -thank God!

    I also worked in the insurance industry. We also had the screen actors guild account - for everywhere but CA. My coworkers and me would look up movie stars and gawk at their personal info - most of it just said something like "Joe Berstein talent, NY,NY" or something like that - but the point is ---WE WERE SNOOPING.

    I have no excuse nor reason - we were star struck.

    My Point Personal information will be abused somehow!

  18. Had it for a while by CaptainSuperBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I saw this demonstrated on a Pocket PC about a year ago. I'm pretty sure it works through the normal cell network. They can pull up all your information based on your name, license plate, driver's license number, etc. I thought it was just for Mass. residents but I could be wrong. Doesn't seem any worse than "running your numbers" through a dispatcher, it just takes less time so it makes the police more efficient.

  19. Mod up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    seriously man, who knows what lives most guards at airports have led before taking that job. What if they are ex-cons, and this data is just what they were looking for to get their next kickback?

    Like, I won't arrest you if you pay me 10k.... Or I won't tell your wife you've been living in an apartment in Florida with an unmarried woman...

    The potential for abuse is just enormous.

    However, this kind of capability is not going to go away. What we need is a structure in place that will ensure that no abuses take place. It's a cliche, but we need a monitor of the monitors...

    Here's another one (but appropriate): who will monitor the monitors of the monitors?

    1. Re:Mod up by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or I won't tell your wife you've been living in an apartment in Florida with an unmarried woman...

      Get it right. She's married too. And it's a house not an apartment.

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
  20. Nearly 98 Percent! by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...so, like 97%?

  21. Re:Mod Parent Up! by user+no.+590291 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can pretty safely assume that if someone has access to a database and something to gain, and no chance of being caught (i.e. no auditing of queries), they will use the information.

  22. Oh that's nothing... by sdo1 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    In Boston if you ride on public transportation, you'll soon be subject to search.

    Don't forget folks, it's not only the Republicans who are itching to strip your rights away. Massachusetts is about as Democratic as you can get and they're in on it too.

    -S

    --
    --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
  23. Already needs an upgrade. by teamhasnoi · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Truly, it's the missing 2% that we should really be worried about. I'm guessing there's a noticeable lack of CEOs, politicians, and others who can buy, wheedle or threaten their way out of the database.

    When I can find out Bill G's home address, Dick Cheney's driver's licence number, George's arrest record, and Ken Lay's bank balance - then I'll say it's fair.

    Anyone who says this is not ripe for abuse is a shareholder.

  24. 98%? by magarity · · Score: 2, Interesting

    nearly 98 percent of the U.S. population

    This is great. As long as the terrorist population in the USA is more than 2%, some of them are guaranteed to be caught. If 4% of the population are terrorists, and they all pass through that airport, half of them will be caught! Your tax dollars at work...

  25. sounds like what /. does by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Interesting
    rate limiting to be exact. But then again... we can only hope that they have someone who thought of it. Maybe they specifically wouldn't implement rate limiting because certain access points may have a high volume of requests moving through them.

    Unless those queries are fractions of a penny, wouldn't it be cheaper in the long term for the state to setup some type of non-profit or holding company and just buy out LocatePlus? Ha! i just RTFA and they said "between $1 and $7 per click. At what point does HomeLand Security decide that these businesses are critical to National Security & co-opt them?

    p.s. the article does say "restricted government data" i.e. not public records.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  26. How long before it is used to break in? by Tangurena · · Score: 2

    I wonder how long before someone leaves their's in the bathroom (like the skymarshal who left her gun in the bathroom) and it gets sold. This would make a great burglar's tool to find out who to rob while they are on a plane trip.

    1. Re:How long before it is used to break in? by eaolson · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What makes you think its not password protected? I highly doubt they wouldn't think of that scenario.

      What makes you think the password won't be written on the back cover of the Blackberry?

      Seems to me this becomes more likely if "strong" passwords that rotate often are used.

  27. Terrorist prevention or just for finding criminals by mattjb0010 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    According to this article in Mass. High Tech, Massachusetts State Police stationed at Logan Airport will soon have access (via Blackberry handhelds) to "7 billion records" containing information on "nearly 98 percent of the U.S. population

    Nice to hear so much being spent on a system which wouldn't have had any information on the 9/11 hijackers. And another thing which will get me earmarked for special treatment as a non-US citizen living here.

  28. I read a book once.... by nonregistered · · Score: 2, Insightful

    hopefully no false identifications

    "Hope is not a plan."

  29. Big Brothah by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Boston is also "randomly" searching its subway passengers. The Supreme Court ruled this month that Americans must give their name to police who ask, even without cause, or be arrested. Freedom's just another word for something left to lose.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  30. Ah! But they DON'T charge by the query... by SmoothTom · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I'll bet that the Blackberrys will be on the flat rate plan rather than charged per inquiry:

    From their site:

    "Introducing LP-Police Unlimited Flat Rate

    LP-Police's unlimited low monthly rate of only $74.99 is unmatched by any other database available today! This database is restricted to use by Government and Law Enforcement only. LP-Police is an extensive database that includes searchable and cross-referenced public information on approximately 98% of the United States adult population. Subscribers to LP-Police are given unlimited access to the following searches: Telephone/Mobile/Cellular information, Address Information, Motor Vehicle Registration, Online Criminal and Sexual Offender information, Corporations and UCC and Real Estate Property."

    Have a good day!
    Tomas

  31. The grid? by Raven42rac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Makes me seriously want to live off the grid. I do not feel any more secure knowing some hack has information on 98% of the U.S. population on a glorified palm pilot, what if this device "walks away"? All that info in the wrong hands (ACTUAL BADGUYS, id thieves, spammers, etc) is scary. I hate the fact that when 19 foreign citizens do some bad shit, 300 million legal Americans have to pay for the incompetance of our government to stop it. It is a classic kneejerk reaction, the current administration has eroded 200 years of balanced liberty and security in 4 years, that has to be some kind of record. I feel less safe, and downright ashamed of our preemptive attacks and feeble attempts at nation building. The way the little guy has taken it in the ass in these past 4 years is astounding. Where to begin? The overtime ripoff, outsourcing, tax cuts for the rich, PATRIOT act, PATRIOT II, TIA, DMCA, "show me your papers", and that is just the beginning. I would vote for Nader if I thought he could actually win, so I will vote for Kerry instead. Mr. Kerry has actually come out with stances on issues, most of which I agree with. I was worried he was not going to have any discernible viewpoint on anything for a second.

    --
    I hate sigs.
    1. Re:The grid? by Raven42rac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Jobs are being added, but if you take a look at the jobs lost versus the jobs added, you will see the ones that were added pay a lot less than the ones that were lost.
      My mom can not vote anyway (she's Irish), so she tends to stay out of politics in general.
      The fact is that over the last 4 years, our rights have gone out the window, that is a fact, I have a clue. Until recently, the government could hold you without charges, incommunicado, for however long they felt like. They still have the PATRIOT act at their disposal, they can tap your phone, net connection, and subpoena pretty much anything for no reason, and the subpoenaed party is not even allowed to tell you.
      I am not far left, I am an independent, I just tend to think about things.
      How many of the programs that many low-income families depend on to hold down jobs and contribute to society have been cut to support that tax cut? It feels like the 80s, when Reaganomics had Americans hating the poor. Just because I have a heart and care about people does not make me far left.
      I doubt very seriously that everyone who voted on PATRIOT knew it would be abused in the way it has been.
      I realise Mr. Bush has not appointed a justice, but they tend to side with the Republicans most of the time. They are an obsolete, monolithic institution, I would suggest term limits of less that "until you die". I could mention the Scalia-Cheney duck huntin trip that "wasn't a conflict of interest", but that would be too easy.
      I too got a tax cut, and I am by no means rich, but I would rather ensure the fiscal future of our nation for our descendents than be able to make an extra payment on my debts now. Social security is doomed, we have a war to pay for, the deficit is sky high, were gaining "mcjobs", dollar is weak against the euro, and I get a little bit more money back? Thanks, but no thanks. Taxes are a necessary evil. At least most Democrats are "tax and spend", instead of "cut taxes, and spend pretty much the same, if not more, and think that companies will contribute to the economy instead of heading overseas to duck those taxes and take profits wherever they can".

      --
      I hate sigs.
    2. Re:The grid? by Raven42rac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is possible to be off the grid, but on the web. People are allowed to change their minds on issues, they are only human. I would be more scared if someone kept the same viewpoint in spite of evidence to the contrary. Like say, hypothetically, reasons for going to war.

      --
      I hate sigs.
  32. You notice there's no "opt out" on their site..... by acadiel · · Score: 3, Informative

    You notice that there's no "opt out" anywhere on the locateplus.com website.


    At least some other database companies, such as lexis-nexis.com will let you at least opt out.

    I wonder how long before these private databases are mandated to respond to "opt out" requests.

  33. More reasons for caution by geoswan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are dangers in relying on electronic information. Particularly when it is used without any exercise of common sense.

  34. Open source vs. Closed personal information..... by Brian_Ellenberger · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Note: I'm merely throwing out a hypothetical, this is not necessarily my belief. Just a discussion point.

    On Slashdot, it is commonly argued and agreed upon that "security thru obscurity" is a falacy and the best way to get yourself into trouble. Obscure facts and details are eventually discovered and exploited. It is better to have all source and algorithms out in the open, have everyone pick at it, find the holes and patch them.

    Compare this to the commonly held belief in keeping all personal information "secret". If someone tries hard enough, they can pretty much discover any information about yourself. Private detectives, for example, specialize in "hacking" personal information (arrest record, who you are sleeping with). Would it not be better to "open source" your life and deal with the consequences? Your SSN and Credit Card numbers should be secured with something better than mere obscurity, for example. If you are cheating on your spouse you would assume you are going to be caught and be able to deal with the consequences. With everything out in the open we don't have to worry about blackmail and dirty tricks and you better know people's character and motivations. Kinda like looking inside a program's source and seeing the flaws.

    Note, these are NOT my opinions, just things that went through my head at 10pm.

    Brian Ellenberger

  35. And when the data is wrong? Worse than ID theft by geekotourist · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The data combines multiple sources including gov't files. It includes your associates (roommates past and present, family members, travel companions). I assume they use software like casinos use for this (i.e. if your old college roommate recently got caught card counting, you're going to have a harder time playing at casinos too.) but with data the casinos can't get like your CPNI (phone calls). The gov't data probably has your associations: memberships in the ACM, ACLU, or NRA can come from mailing list rentals, and the gov't / IRS knows deductable donations.

    So, what if the data is wrong? I'd say the results would be worse than identity theft or a simple bad credit report.

    With ID theft, bad data gets attached to you and affects your ability to find jobs, get loans, rent housing, etc. But, it only affects you (perhaps also a spouse). You can get your data and try to fix it. Takes 200 hours and never quite finishes, but you have rights and the credit agencies have duties.

    With this system, bad data will affect you and your ability to travel. The government has admitted that it has no responsibility to fix bad data in government files. So, you'll have few to zero chances to fix it. And the best part is bad data about you will creep out to taint anyone you've associated with. If you look bad, then so do your old roommates. And your new business partners. And whoever you call regularly. So now grandma will get a free breast cancer screening whenever she flies (mmmmm. Wand searches).

    From my favorite essay written by a precog on privacy post 9/11( the former Canadian privacy czar's excellent essay), as I commented here in this thread on airlines gave away your privacy (and it definitely applies to those of us in the US, he's warning Canadians not to do what the US was doing already):

    • The more information government compiles about us, the more of it will be wrong. That's simply a fact of life...
    • wrong information and misinterpretations will have potential consequences. If information that is actually about someone else is wrongly applied to us, if wrong facts make it appear that we've done things we haven't, if perfectly innocent behavior is misinterpreted as suspicious because authorities don't know our reasons or our circumstances, we will be at risk of finding ourselves in trouble in a society where everyone is regarded as a suspect...
    • Decisions detrimental to us may be made on the basis of wrong facts, incomplete or out-of-context information or incorrect assumptions, without our ever having the chance to find out about it, let alone to set the record straight...
    • That possibility alone will, over time, make us increasingly think twice about what we do, where we go, with whom we associate, because we will learn to be concerned about how it might look to the ubiquitous watchers of the state.
    • The bottom line is this: If we have to live our lives weighing every action, every communication, every human contact, wondering what agents of the state might find out about it, analyze it, judge it, possibly misconstrue it, and somehow use it to our detriment, we are not truly free. That sort of life is characteristic of totalitarian countries, not a free and open society like Canada.

    "[gives example of Canada wanting to collect data, US style]... This is unprecedented. The Government of Canada has absolutely no business creating a massive database of personal information about all law-abiding Canadians that is collected without our consent from third parties, not to provide us with any service but simply to have it available to use against us if it ever becomes expedient to do so. Compiling dossiers on the private activities of all law-abiding citizens is the sort of t

  36. Re:I respond with.. by Tackhead · · Score: 2, Funny
    > Someone once said it best - Give me liberty or give me death!

    "Greetings, Citizen! I am Troubleshooter PET-R-GUN. The Computer wishes to address the needs of all Citizens!"

    (pause)

    *BLAM* *BLAM* *BLAM*

    (pause to admire smoking boot)

    "Any other Citizens wishing to request either liberty or death are directed to contact the nearest Troubleshooter, who will be happy to assist the Computer in seeing to it that their needs are met! Trust the Computer! The Computer is your Friend!"

  37. Dossiers by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A: This service has zero info that you shouldn't have. It's all public records, the scary part of this service is that they seem to have most of the nation's public records about individuals assembled in an easy-to-query form.

    The fact that info is public record does NOT mean that it's OK to assemble it with OTHER information that is ALSO public record and make the result - or even the original public records - available at electronic speed.

    One of the big objections to the creation of the Social Security System was that the SS# would serve as a universal identifier, making it easier to assemble dossiers of individuals from diverse public records. This almost killed the program - which was eventually passed on the promise (among others) that the nubmer would NEVER EVER EVER be used in that way.

    Remember that this was before WWII, which means before computers and even xerography. ("copying" was, at best, thermofax, blueprint, or photography.) AND in the midst of the "Great Depression", with its starving masses of people (including the elderly) who had just gone bankrupt and lost their homes, farms, and businesses in a pre "welfare" system environment.

    Can you IMAGINE how concerned they were to consider blocking the creation of the SS system JUST to prevent the hand-construction and misuse of manual dossiers composed of public information?

    The US classified information rules DO classify the JUXTIPOSITION of certain publicly available unclassified information - whenever this juxtaposition hints at something that IS sensitive. This happens in nuclear physics, radio, and several other fields. Why should individuals be any less protected from combining public information in a way that stips more of their privacy than the individual records standing alone?

    = = = =

    Databases run in their private time by policemen or retired policemen were, back in the '70s, a dodge to get around new laws banning ilicit governmental record keeping. These laws were passed after the government's investigative agencies at all levels (FBI, Military Intelligence, State/County/City police) went 'WAY out of bounds on domestic surveilance and so-called "dirty tricks" against people suspected of participating in the civil rights and anti(vietnam)war movement. (See COINTELPRO for an example.)

    They were SUPPOSED to destroy the ill-gotten info. But instead some of them absconded with it and set up for-profit companies to maintain it and sell access back to the very police departments that weren't supposed to have it. This let the departments continue to use it and CLAIM that they didn't have it.

    So this one is run by a former policeman, eh? Any bets on whether it's a modern continuation of one of those ilicit databases?

    = = = =

    Dylan said you had to pay to keep from going through these things twice. Well we DID pay and we're STILL going through them again! B-(

    B: Since this company charges by the query, too many queries from a device will likely cause that device quickly be deauthorized by whomever's paying the bill.

    Aren't we talking about the Federal Government's Homeland Security boondoggle department? Somehow I doubt that breaking the US budget is an issue.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  38. Been there, done that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In 1987 I founded a company in Orlando, FL that did most of this.

    1987 was before the public was aware of the Internet, so it wasn't as prevalent. But, using CompuServe's packet switching network, we had access to most of the nation's public records: auto, plane & boat registration; worker's comp records; driver's licenses; arrest records; court filings; etc.

    We also had access to the "top half" of a credit report. The major credit bureaus make a fortune selling the non-credit related info they have: names, addresses, employment history, etc. Federal law *prohibited* most law enforcement agencies from directly accessing this data.

    For three years *we* made a small fortune reselling this info to several police/sheriff departments.

    This experience taught me three things:

    1. Gather all that information and even if a bunch of it is out of date or invalid, you can put together a VERY accurate picture of someone's life.

    2. Many LEOs were quite loose with information they were not supposed to access or share. By this I mean cops sitting in parking lots running every tag, DL and NCIC reports on every driver. I also received full information requests on cop girlfriends, ex-wives, etc.

    They are also more than willing to discretely share things like DL photos, NCIC records, etc. with people who give them data.

    Hell, at one time I found full info on an escaped murderer who had been hiding for 10 years. His wife once applied for a Sears credit card using his real SSN. THAT led to a California DL photo that confirmed it was him; auto tag in Nevada with an almost-current address; and a forwarding address from a gas company that owed him a refund - bingo.

    $5,000 reward, certificate of appreciation from 3 law enforcement agencies, and the knowledge that 98% of all $100 bills in circulation have enough drug residue on them to hit a drug dog. So, while taking that stack of $100s to the bank, I had a personal contact in the US Marshall's Office if I got stopped. :-)

    Oh, yeah, #3. The most important.

    How to hide in today's society if I really want to.

    chill

  39. Re:Mod Parent Up! by somekindofuniguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is true in aggregate. I know they are few and far between, but there are people alive who will stand on principal even if they have something to gain and there are no consequences to their actions.

  40. I said it before... by linuxhansl · · Score: 4, Insightful
    here And I'll say it again:
    1. These tools/extended rights will be abused.
    2. They won't help to prevent terrorist attacks.
    How many terrorists are US citizens? Even if they previously they student visas, etc, terrorist groups just have to stay out of the US until right before the attack. There will be no records on them, and hence this does nothing to prevent them from pursuing their actions.
    But now there is this huge pool easily accessible information out there, just waiting to be used for other purposes.

    Anyway, IMHO there will never be an attack like 9/11 again, because on 9/11 the terrorists relied on the will and hope of the passengers to stay alive. Now, if a plane is hijacked the passengers will have to assume that they will die, hence it will be impossible to control them (what would you threadten them with?) That's what happened to the 4th plane on 9/11 when people on the plane learned about the other attacks via cellphone.

  41. Blackberry Use by ifonline · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have one of these devices (I'm a cop), although I do not live in Mass, and it uses a different provider for the information. All of the information is based on collection from three sources: public records, driving records, and criminal history. The public records are fairly accurate, but they are not perfect. The driving and criminal records are more accurate, and reflect the same information that I can collect when running a vehicle tag or a driver's license. That's the key. I need to know who I am searching for in order to get the information. I can't just put in a name, for example, with no other information (such as a date of birth, SSN, city of birth, etc.) and expect to receive any information. It just doesn't work that way. Is it dangerous? Depends on your stance towards records queries, I suppose. I can get all of this information without the Blackberry, but it is more convenient when I'm on foot interacting with a crowd to have the device. Push come to shove, however, and I'll take you back to the patrol car to get the information. It works for both of us, in a sense. I don't have to go back to the car to get the info, and you don't have to waste the time coming with me. Something else to consider: I am required by law (at least in my state) to protect the information that I gather on a person. The law is so protective that I can be held responsible if someone else HEARS the information on my radio, including the person I am checking! This would undoubtedly extend to my control over the Blackberry. If I lost it, I would be in a great deal of civil liability. That doesn't prevent someone from using the device illegally, granted, but it is something to consider none the less.

    1. Re:Blackberry Use by mcdesign · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is another side to data use that is seldom considered. Take, for example, a telephone directory: an alphabetical listing of customers' phone numbers. To find out someones phone number you need to know their name and perhaps their address to eliminate duplicates. But if you put the directory info into a searchable database and all of sudden you can do things that are impossible to do with a paper phone directory. With just an address you can find a phone number and name of an individual. You can find all of the telephone numbers for everyone in a single street etc. So while it is true that there are no additional details about you in this searchable database, the potential for abuse of this information is much greater.

  42. Remember, 1/2,500 of us is a terrorist... by geekotourist · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Or so it was implied via this article on the Matrix program that found 120,000 people (.04% of the US population) having a high terrorism quotient. Take that an average person knows 1,000 people. Then, she must be 1.7 degrees away from a HTQ person. You're much more closely connected to a terrorist than to either of Kevin Bacon or Erdos, say.

    Yet I bet that their "120,000" number is about as good as my own analysis above- sounds very precise, but not at all accurate... But since those HTQ people are now defined- and who wants to waste data- they're going to show up in the gov't databases. And then their roommates and co-workers are going to get flagged as medium TQ people. And then their roommates get to be medium-low TQ people. And so on and so on... If you're lucky you'll only be a LLML TQ, but no one gets to be 100% free of the taint.

    Even though that original 120k number doesn't pass the sniff test. Sure, ".04%" seems like a small number, but that equals one in 2500 people. Is 1/2500 people in the US a terrorist? That'd be 1 terrorist per 10 airplane flights, or several terrorists per major sporting event, or 400 terrorists in Silicon Valley (plus the 30 laid off who've moved back home). Unless they're all fantastically incompetent, the US should have several terror events per day.

    [Pause to answer knock on door....]

    Oh, never mind, we are crawling with terrorists, like the Peace Fresno anti-war group with their monthly streetside protest. Forgot that civil disobedience is now terrorism. Unless its lawful civil disobedience, of course. I'm just going to go back to my Orrin Hatch CD now.

  43. Universal deployment not far off... by mi · · Score: 3, Insightful
    An airport is the logical place to start something like this, but, once the technology is proven and tested, it can be deployed anywhere.

    Which brings us, again, to the question: "Is the universal and effective law enforcement desirable?" If, suddenly, there was a method for the police to promptly find and arrest everyone they needed, would it be a good thing to have (even if we ignore the potential abuse problems)?

    Before you say: "Yes!" -- consider the fact, that the US' Founding Fathers were, most certainly, breaking the law(s) of the British Empire and committed treason...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  44. From the Privacy Policy.... by IanDanforth · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Finally, while the nonpublic information may contain your maiden name, it does not include your mother's maiden name or any other information about your parents or family"

    So...if you have a kid, that kid is screwed. Or even better, if you know the first name of the mother (of whomever's identity your trying to steal), you can then easily find HER maiden.

    What a great system. No potential for abuse. Nope none. Because only law enforcement, private detectives and COMPANIES (not specified) can get access to this info.

    -Ian

  45. NOT an issue - Re:What if the devices are stolen by crapnutassneck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The current BES (Blackberry Enterprise Server) allows you, as an admin to send a "poison pill" which will wipe the device automatically. They also have local passwords and an autolock feature set from the server. The device also wipes itself after 10 attempts with the wrong password.

    --
    .-=Wit is educated insolence=-. -Aristotle
  46. as scary as this is... by painehope · · Score: 4, Insightful

    it was only a matter of time. All of the "services" that LocatePlus offers are matters of public record, which means that by the law you, I, or any jackass Orwellian fascist w/ a frutrated Big Brother complex ( *ahem* Jon Latorella - that's you bub! ) can access them and do whatever the hell he wants with them.

    If you want an example of how available these records are now, check out Adams County Records. I've used them before to see if charges had been filed on friends, etc. So it's not hard to get, especially in the "digital" age.

    What is scary is the fact that our society ( and our judicial branch in particular - which should be motivated by an evolving sense of ethics and morality, which, well, DOESN'T SEEM TO BE FUCKING EVOLVING to cope with our changing world ) doesn't seem to be able to prevent these abuses. Because a private citizen ( or a government agency, for that matter, but they have a lot of liabilities under the law that private citizens don't, that limit their abuses ) compiling a database from public records ( which aren't always accurate ) and then selling it to government agencies ( which is now probably excused for their mistakes due to the fact they were using "someone else's system" ) is most definitely an abuse. It's the basest whoring of public information that I can possibly think of.

    Which beggars another question : if we were as intelligent and moral as we suppose, why haven't we done the following :

    1) rather than releasing records freely, release them under a public license, similar to the GPL. Since they would have to be copyrighted to be released under a license, why not copyright each citizen's information to that person, and their relatives owning their copyright when they die? Yeah, it sounds sick in a way - you're copyrighted, dude ! - but it would prevent commercial and governmental abuses like this. Your information is copyrighted to yourself, freely available under the Citizen's General Public License or some such shit, and any sentencing, divorce, etc., is an addendum to the copyrighted work - namely YOU. And you have to authorize any use of your records which involves commercial profit.

    2) Made laws disallowing the use of public records for direct commercial gain.

    3) Passed laws that required private and public agencies furnishing public or private information to other agencies to be be directly culpable for all misuse, negative repurcussions, etc., that result from any inaccurate or outdated information that they provide. This one rings home with me particularly strongly tonight, since I just found out that 2 medical bills that I paid over a year ago still show up on my credit as unpaid debts. There's no accountability there, even though I've badgered these bastards before to update their records.

    Yeah, making laws doesn't always solve a problem, but making the right ones will. Stop telling people who they can fuck, how they can get high, stop giving money to religious "charities", stop supporting people that are unwilling to work but still willing to reproduce, legislating the RIAA's paranoid crusade about whether I can copy a fucking DVD or not, and start making some laws that pull that metaphorical boot off of our face. Because I only see it getting worse. And this is the really goddamn scary part kids :

    I see it getting a whole worse before it gets any better.

    --
    PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
  47. Accessing Ex-Girlfriends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's even more disturbing that these people will have access to my ex-girlfriend in college that I haven't spoken to in 10 years.

    I'm sure a lot of folks have accessed MY ex-girlfriend. In fact, that is why we broke up.

  48. Squeaky Clean Terrorists by totallygeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really do not understand this. A fair percentage of violent criminals have no prior record before they commit their offenses. I am sure the same goes for terrorists. You have a student over here learning and then he is told to do a suicide mission or release some nerve gas. No one is really watching this fine upstanding person under 30, bright, personable.

    I mean, none of the 911 terrorists were being investigated and all had current papers to be here legally.

  49. tell it to the judge by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even if a court rules that you were within your rights to refuse to give your name, you'll get arrested, do some jail time, and have the burden of proof to be freed. The "mistaken" arresting cop will have done nothing but "waste" their time dealing with a harmless citizen, rather than face an actual criminal with a gun for a while. The Supremes also ruled this month that the President can lock up people he doesn't like, without evidence, without charges. Although you're theoretically entitled to a lawyer, you'll have to go to court (without a lawyer) to get one. These are the people who elected our President.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  50. huge (but understandable) fallacy by nusratt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In OSS, espousing "anti-obscurity" means "supporting transparency of the *mechanism* for protecting the data".
    It doesn't mean "supporting transparency of the *data*".
    Your logic implies that it would be ok for security policies to allow anyone to have read-only access to our bank statements, health records, etc.

  51. and college students, and the unemployed... by geekotourist · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Anecdotally I noticed that my credit report now has no addressed for me other than my rented post office boxes (including the wrong number for a previous one) because 100% of my bills go there. So there won't be a match between my credit report and my drivers licence. Can't imagine the gov't will look upon that kindly: anything that confuses them makes them angry, I've noticed.

    College students might have their "permanent" (home) address for taxes, one or more local addresses per year for school (and voting), and perhaps also a POBox. If they have a credit history, it won't necessarily keep up with their moving around. So from the point of view of BigBroBrand database, they'll look dreadful.

    The unemployed also might use more than one address that shows up in the database (renting a POBox to appear like a local when applying for jobs, or using a friend's address).

    All to say I'm not happy that they're using data on "how good are you at moving small green pieces of paper around?" gathered by private companies to guess "how risky is it for us to give you more green pieces of paper?" as a proxy for "how established are you in a neighborhood?" to let the government guess "how risky is it for us to let you travel around?" (...On the whole its those private companies being handed planet-sized bundles of green pieces of paper to continue tracking you that are happy: they themselves don't get tracked, much.)

  52. The best description of how dangerous these are.. by Irvu · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Comes from the ACLU's Page on the U.S. Census:

    Q: Has census data been abused in the past?

    A: Yes. Information gathered by the U.S. Census bureau helped the government round up American citizens of Japanese ancestry during World War II. When the Federal government came up with the idea that these Japanese Americans were a security threat, it needed some way to hunt them down. The solution? Use the Census records. According to officials who were in charge of the internment process, Census Bureau employees opened up their files and drew up detailed maps. These maps showed where Japanese Americans were located and how many such people were living in a given area.2 In the end, nearly 112,000 people were captured and sent to internment camps, in one of the darkest episodes in United States history.3

    In the years after World War II, there have been repeated attempts to expand the use of Census records beyond mere statistical analysis. Recently, there was an effort to expand the number of public entities who have ready access to these banks of data, including state and local authorities, as well as the United States Postal Service.4 These developments underline the importance of new privacy protection laws to prevent history from repeating itself.


    See here.

    The Census Bureu's Take on it is:
    The historical record is clear that senior Census Bureau staff proactively
    cooperated with the internment, and that census tabulations were directly
    implicated in the denial of civil rights to citizens of the United States who
    happened also to be of Japanese ancestry.

    The record is less clear whether the then in effect legal prohibitions against
    revealing individual data records were violated. On this question, the judicial
    principle of innocent until proven otherwise should be honored. However,
    even were it to be conclusively documented that no such violation did occur,
    this would not and could not excuse the abuse of human rights that resulted
    from the rapid provision of tabulations designed to identify where Japanese
    Americans lived and therefore to facilitate and accelerate the forced
    relocation and denial of civil rights.


    See here.

    The problem that I see with these things is that the database is maintained by cross-linking private data of likely dubious validity so we have know way of knowing if the false positives/negatives are even within reasonable bounds. Remember what heppened in florida when many african-american voters were mistakenly "scrubbed" from the rolls and denied their rights to vote? What guarantee do we have that "bad data" (as the peole in florida assert) or deliberate falsification (as others have charged) will prevent otherwise innocent people from flying.

    But, more importantly, the article makes no mention of controls, not only ensuring that a connected device is not stolen but that the data will not be misused by some guards who are seeking to stop all muslims. The potential for abuse in both forming the databases and in using them is frightening. Suppose the number of african-american men, or chinese people, or muslims who are stopped at the gates goies up even a little, who will be keeping an eye on that and keeping the airport honest? The Airport itself?

    Lest we forget, the reason that the FBI doesn't have a database on 98% of Americans including past locations, etc is that, up until now, being innocent of a crime meant that you were entitled to some measure of privacy, and, that the goal was to curb abuses of police power not aid and abet them.
  53. sigh by samantha · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone, not even having to be a PI, can get their hands on much of this information about anyone who hasn't taken a lot of steps to avoid leaving so many cookie crumbs. That it has been organized for more convenient access was just a matter of time. We need to insure some things:

    a) that the information is accurate;
    b) that we can examine our information for accuracy and there is a way to correct it;
    c) that there are stringent laws governing the use of this information;
    d) that there are workable procedures for reporting abuse and taking legal remedies against abuse.

    The above will not make us completely safe of course. But they are necessary steps in the right direction in this world of dense information flows.