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Can A Bounty System Cure Spam?
dankinit writes "The FTC is considering a proposal made popular by Lawrence Lessig which would offer a bounty to people who help catch spammers. The proposal looks to harness the power of volunteers online who might want a piece of the multimillion dollar fines spammers could incur. Spamhaus founder Steve Linford doesn't like the idea though, explaining '...the FTC already has so much information on their identities that to get anymore would be useless.'"
We know who is spamming us. Afterall, the spam message needs some sort of e-mail address or web address so that the fools can respond, so you just have to follow the money trail to get back to the spammer.
The problem is that the worst these people are setting themselves up outside of US jurisdiction, so that FTC and company just can't get to them. Any spammer who doesn't is excessively stupid. There's nothing that the US courts can take from them... and I just don't think offering 20% of $0 is going to do much anyway.
Bottom line is that this plan doesn't connect. As much as spam annoys us, the US Government just can't do anything about it because it's a worldwide problem. On the Internet, if one jurisdiction doesn't like what you're doing, you just need to find another who will accept you.
"I want them alive... no disintegration." Oh to be a bounty hunter...
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Can A Bounty System Cure Spam?
Depends, will the FTC hand out Boba Fett type bounting hunting uniforms? I wouldn't mind starting a collection of Spammers In Carbonite on my walls.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Just answer a few simple questions and we'll send you this FREE spammer catcher software!
think about it: spammers start trying to catch each other for the bounty, and then they form these massive spamming groups (read gangs) that join up to get the bounty on other spammers...then you end up with a smaller group of REALLY powerful spammers...i gotta stop playing Mafia...
Can A Bounty System Cure Spam?
Unlikely. But, if the law actually get's off it's ass and actually hands out fines, spammers might be more inclined to stick the equivalent of "this is spam" (the opt-out message, etc.), which could make filtering more effective.
Perhaps we should be fining the ISPs who happily let spam-servers loose on their network?
"It would promote vigilantism on the Net and it probably would not catch any bad guys," said Louis Mastria, spokesman for the Direct Mail Association
There are plenty of technically-skilled knowledgable people out there who might otherwise not have bothered, but who could probably track a few people down.
'the FCC has so much information on their identities that to get anymore would be useless.'
We don't care whether they're known or not. We just want to bankrupt them and get the money we have lost* due to spam.
--
* Most end-users don't lose money, but the amount of stress and anger caused to me by spam has probably shortened my lifespan, and can you put a price on that?
We would need an organized way of combining suits against spammers. Otherwise, those millions of individual suits would clog the courts. A bounty system is the perfect solution. People who collect information on their spammers would organize and report that information to a centralized organization which would handle the actual law suits. Then this organization could pick its targets by employing a pseudo-random, RIAA-style method of picking out random spammers with a boatload of complaints. Any money won would be distributed evenly to those who provided reports on the spammer.
They should all be locked up with men who have enlarged their penises, used viagra, and are looking for a meaningful relationship.
But we could go a long way towards eliminating Spam if the right people would grow some backbone and do the right thing.
1. Cut off Spam from the Zombies.
Cable and DSL companies should block all port 25 traffic coming from their customers. If you want to send e-mail, you should have to use use their SMTP servers. Running your own mail-server is against their TOS in many cases, anyway.
In all fairness, however, this could be handled on a case by case basis. If you are such a macho techno-geek that you really really really really just absolutely HAVE TO run your own mail server, you should have to ask them for persmission first and enter into some sort of agreement that you will not be part of the Spam problem.
2. Cut off the Zombies.
Any cable/DSL customers spewing out large volumes of e-mail (without permission to run a mail server) get a nasty letter, telling them that their service has been terminated until they secure their computer.
3. Follow the money. Follow the money.
Spammers have to make money, somebody has to get paid. They aren't doing this for the fun of it. Trace the money trail back to the people who get paid for the herbal viagra and penis enlargement pills. It isn't easy, but it can be done. If you follow the money, and apply EXISTING laws, such as:
* Child Pornography Statute 18 U.S.C. 2252
* Electronic Communications Privacy Act 18 U.S.C. 2701-2711
* Economic Espionage and Protection of Trade Secrets Law Pub. L. No. 104-294
* Computer Fraud and Abuse Act 18 U.S.C. 1030
* Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act 50 U.S.C. 1801-1811
* Transportation of Obscene Matter for Sale or Distribution 18 U.S.C. 1465
* Federal Wire Fraud Act 18 U.S.C. 1343
you can shut down the Spammers.
Such a system has a fundamental problem: it will motivate people to act purely out of greed, with no further interest in helping to avoid spam. They will therefore concentrate on reporting "easy targets" and perhaps even report people who aren't actually spammers and can't prove it. The whole idea is rather cynical and smells of defeatism (the law won't help => hire bounty hunters acting outside of the law).
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
.. in a great sci-fi book "Labyrinth of Reflections" by Sergey Lukianenko. Unfortunately, it hasn't been translated into English (yet), so I can't post a link ...
In the book, there's a funny bit about cyberworld residents meeting in a town hall by the Statue of a Last Spammer... built when the last spammer was exterminated by the bounty hunters. Being wise enough, the governments still decided to keep the bounty in effect AFTER the last spammer was caught.
Personally, I think this is crazy enough that it could work. Imagine the unlimited energies of 16 year olds who spend their days glued to the computer, chatting on IRC, cracking porn site passwords, doing various small-scale mischief and playing Counterstrike, directed towards catching spammers. All I can say is, that would be a BAD time to be a spammer.
There was a story on /. a while ago about mortgage spam. The large mortgage vendors (many of them legitimate banks) were the ones that responded when some mortgage spam was answered.
It seems that those institutions were paying for leads and they didn't really care where the leads came from.
So, do you fine the guy who sent the spam or the company that contacts you after you answer the spam?
If you only fine the guy, there will be another to take his place (and, as you noted, they will move outside of US jurisdiction).
Can a bank that never before sent you any email be fined for contacting you if you send someone an email saying you're interested in a mortgage? Until that starts happening, nothing is going to happen to the spam level.
Follow the money.
...it worked like current bounty systems.
The police issue warrants for bail jumpers.
Bounty hunters get $$$ for bringing them in.
With a spam bounty system, it could work like this:
The feds put up 'info wanted' notices for specific spammers. It would eliminate the objections people have of vigilantes going after innocent legitimate marketers. The feds would be asking for information about specific spammers, much like the FBI's most wanted list.
You call in leads, the feds prosecute, you get $$$.
The idea here being that there are often people out on the internet who are far more skilled or have far better connections than law enforcement, in tracking down miscreants.
There are likely a lot more net-skilled individuals out there than there are law enforcement officials with good net skills.
Why not put that talent to use, a bounty is great incentive (besides the satisfaction of putting spammers out of business).
Pretty simple.
They live in the USA, they are american citizens. They just spam using servers in china to try to hide the true origin.
Very few spammers actually bother to move outside US borders. And even then, unless they officially renounce their citizenship, they are still US citizens and can still be deported + prosecuted -- no matter where in the world they may be.
The US courts can sieze their assets. Their house, their cars, their computers, etc. Ever wonder what all those government auctions are? Most of them are auctioning off siezed property from criminals. There is serious $$ there.
So yes, there's plenty the US courts can take from them, unless they're living underneath a bridge in a cardboard box.
I'm more concerned that a coalition of spammers might join forces to report "undesired" elements (i.e. anti-spammers) under a system like this, and that it gets misused for harassment.
Just like the tattle-tale system set up after 9/11 has been misused more than it's been useful, I predict the same thing would happen with this.
Regards,
--
*Art
Finally, a poster that sees it right (or at least my way...:).
Spamming and spamvertised business have become enmeshed in the otherwise legitmate economy (either through banking, ISPs, list brokering or trickle-down to middlemen like mortgage intermediaries).
Why isn't the FTC leaning on those people? Or at least publicizing their involvement in spam, even if it is indirect?
Furthermore, given the prima faciae fraudulent and/or illegal nature of spamvertised businesses and products, why isn't the FBI starting RICO investigations against these third parties whose implicit cooperation is necessary for spammers to do business at all? RICO has serious penalties and can be used to "bundle" miscellaneous state and federal law violations that would otherwise be unprosecutable or not worth prosecuting individually.
There's too much of this "it's all overseas" mantra and "we can't do anything about it." I say bullshit -- there's a money trail to follow and a bunch of people who would rather not be the target of a Federal racketeering indictment who live right here in the USA.
I agree. There is a money trail, and that is the problem. Somewhere in back someone has to be spending some of those profits in kickbacks for protection.
The spam is illegal. The products are fraudulent. The trail exists. Nothing is done.
Why?
Because your politicians never actually read their own email, so they don't have to deal with it.
Start printing the spam and sending it in to Congress, making use of the free postage when contacting your representative, and keep doing that for a few months.
Flood them with paper as you are flooded with spam, and I guarantee they'll finally get off their asses and do something about the problem instead of just lip-service laws with no enforcement.
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