Slashdot Mirror
Affinity Engines Says Google Stole Orkut Code
GillBates0 writes "Wired's reporting that a social networking software company called Affinity Engines has filed a lawsuit against Google, claiming that much of the source code behind Orkut, the search engine's popular social service, was stolen by former engineer Orkut Buyukkokten. They claim that he illegally took the code the he had written for the company -- which he co-founded -- with him when he joined Google and that Buyukkokten promised Affinity Engines that he wouldn't develop a competing social network service for Google. '"In its initial investigation, AEI uncovered a total of nine unique software bugs ... in AEI's inCircle product that were also present in Orkut.com," according to the lawsuit.'"
I worked for a startup where our whole product line was based on a voice core that one of the developers had stolen from his previous employer. Ironically, it ended up killing the company -- the developer wouldn't share the code with anyone and didn't have the skill set to make the sort of changes to it we needed. In the end, we had to try and build a new core from scratch, which just put us even farther behind.
Of course, Google ain't some startup run by a bunch of shit-for-brains dysfunctional asshole managers (not that I'm bitter or anything). Just given the sort of company Google has been (aka, not stupid), if the claims pan out it seems to me most likely that this is a situation where this developer came in and unpacked some work he'd done elsewhere -- hell, I have a set of scripts I've developed over the years that I take with me from company to company so I don't have to rewrite them (of course, none of them face the outside or even provide output to anyone other than me).
If that's the case, and assuming this developer actually didn't have any legal rights to this code, it seems to be like Google shouldn't be liable unless this company can prove they used the code knowing it was swiped; otherwise, the lawsuit should be against this developer (not that the developer has hugely deep pockets or an impending IPO to work against).
Alternatively, isn't it possible that this developer just reimplemented the same sort of paradigm he was used to and that caused the same sort of malfunctions? This doesn't seem to far-fetched to me, especially if the bugs are in the overall logic of the coding rather than just a misspelling here or there. I know I've made the same sorts of mistakes even on a complete reimplementation just because nobody had caught them previously...
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Why would someone lay claim to that unscalably, buggy pile of crap they call orkut code?
It breaks regularly, and when it is running, its slow as dirt. Honestly, I'd just suck it up and not admit that it was mine!
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
If by "popular" you mean "only used by a handful of dorks performing a sort of digital circle-jerk", then yeah, it's popular...
Given how unstable and unreliable Orkut has been lately, I reckon Google should sue back! :-)
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
If you have made promises like that to your former company, it's a pretty dumb idea to name the software that publically breaks those promises with your own name.
"Hay guys, I won't develop any social networking services for rival companies or use the code I wrote for you!"
"Cool Orkut, thanks, that'd be legally binding then."
*several months later*
"Hmm, I think I'll call the service 'Orkut'. They'll never know it was me."
Update: AEI asked to produce stolen code, claims it is in a briefcase in Germany that their lawyer will bring to court, when he gets around to it.
Maybe it's true. Neatly dismissing the accuser because the defendant is Google seems foolish to me.
If we want unbiased courts, the first thing to do is become unbiased ourselves.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
I don't know too many software engineers that don't keep at least a library of souce code from one development job to another, regardless of the "rules". However, it seems really bold to me to say your not going to create a competing service and then create one that is named after you.
Six score characters.
Brevity being wit's soul
I have enough space.
It was Affinity that was rejecting the neutral expert, and Google that was offering.
Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
"Buyukkokten promised Affinity Engines that he wouldn't develop a competing social network service for Google. "
Not to be cynical, but did he sign any non compete clause or something? Because a simple promise won't really hold much water in court.
I hope this is the engineer rather than Google though, I'd hate to see them stubmel like that.
~G
...when it gets down to fundamentals, do what you have to do and shed no tears. Dr. Matson in Tunnel in the Sky
My Google Stock!
...Wait Google's not public yet... whew
This is Orkut saying that HE offered a neutral party to look and Affinity (the one's sueing Google) have refused the offer.
The only one's trying to 'pull a SCO' here is Affinity...
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
I guess posting this conundrum is my way of abstaining...
Hmm,
I wonder if the fine folks over at SCO will bother to watch this.. If it turns out Affinity has a real case, SCO will see stark differences between what they're trying to pass off as a case of misappropriation, and how the Real World(tm) functions..
US$0.02++
Open source social network software does exist, it's called PeopleAggregator, launched by Mark Canter of ex-Macromedia and the link goes to the Slashdot discussion of the product.
Doesn't have all the features that some networks have, but there are plenty of Web coders out there.
"In its initial investigation, AEI uncovered a total of nine unique software bugs ... in AEI's inCircle product that were also present in Orkut.com,"
So they're suing him because he stole their proprietary bugs?
I think we need to be clear in the understanding that there's a potential disconnect between the intended actions of Orkut the programmer (as opposed to the service) and Google the company. It may well be that Google believed they were getting something written for them from scratch, when in fact the programmer was re-using a ridiculous (and legally actionable) amount of his old code. I tend to believe that if any infringement did occur, that this is the story behind it, rather than Google willfully and knowingly infringing.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
No. That is one value of closed source. Another value is profit.
Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
If you are going to pirate some code from your
old company and bring it to your new company,
make sure you debug it before the world sees it.
dtg
The truth is an offense, but not a sin.------R. N. Marley
Typically in lawsuits like this, if the act was a willful violation of contract terms and/or copyright, they can get rather substantial penalties beyond actual damages. If Google can show that this programmer introduced this code in spite of their efforts to prevent such things, rather than as a result of encouragement to get it out the door, they may be off the hook for these extra damages (punitive and statutory) though I don't think the programmer has much of a chance at that. Of course, establishing the value of actual damages in a case like this is always difficult as well. Hopefully they'll be able to settle with a licensing agreement that makes everybody mostly happy. Google probably has the resources to rewrite everything, but at this point that's probably not practical.
I hope this doesn't put too much of a damper on the 20% projects at Google. They keep turning out a lot of really cool stuff because of those, and it would be really unfortunate if liability forced them to micromanage their research.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
Should just do what I started doing awhile back: Just read and enjoy /. and let others fight for the "priviledge" of having a story accepted. There are more worthwhile things to get upset about.
/* I worked for a company that had source code stolen by a former programmer, who went on to produce a very similar product for another company at about half the price. We saw identical functionality, shortcomings, even a case of a same hideously ugly sprite, and after siezing computers gobs of identical source code. Before a judge, they argued that given the same task, identical source code may result. The judge was not a technical judge who listened to arguments on this for about half a year before excusing himself... after a new judge was reassigned I remember we had Plauger lined up to testify on the ridiculousness of this assertion... while examining his copy of the code he also apparently found that identical tasks were producing identical whitespace, thanks to the original programmer's (the guy didn't even limit himself to stealing what he wrote) habit of hitting the spacebar before hitting enter on the end of every line. When this evidence was introduced the other company cut their guy loose and tried to claim ignorance. Not sure what happened there, as by this time it had dragged on long enough that they had to start letting people go, including me, and our company never recovered... */
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
It doesn't say that Google offered a specific neutral expert. I'm sure that either way the results might turn out, that Google wants it over quick. It's trivial to find a disinterested third party to look at code and decide if Google is in the wrong or not. If they are, they can settle, if not, then Affinity lays off.
Why spend hundreds of thousands or millions on lawyers when evidence can be obvious to a CS prof agreeable to both parties or something like that?
Unless it's an attempt to disrupt commerce, of course. While people can use your free service, I'm having difficulty selling mine. If I can make it difficult for you, I can take you out of the marketplace.
-PM
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
Close. It's that piracy isn't discovered. I suspect there is a lot more code "borrowed" in the closed-source ranked, than the open-source ones. Closed source tends to be more deadline driven, and is a LOT less throughly vetted. Most open-source is done for ego or altruistic reasons. (take your pick) But the incentive to steal (bonuses, making deadlines, etc) coupled with the much lower chance of detection might tempt people.
If their product runs on UNIX, they're code belongs to SCO. They obviously did a terrible job of prtecting SCO's IP when they allowed Orkut to leave the company with his memory intact. Expect Darl to sue AEI in the next week and Google the next. Just for kicks I'll bet the sue Friendster for "Incitement to commit IP theft"
As seen on Wired: Get a free desktop PC
I'd almost bet my next paycheck that this is a nuisance suit brought on by a sore loser. As has been pointed out, a prior employer can't ask you to commit to "not compete".
In addition to that, a lot of people learned a lot of hard ball during the tech explosion of the 80's. I don't know a software engineer or a programmer today that doesn't read employment agreements thoroughly and know to not commit to certain language in certain agreements, even if they're unenforceable on their face. You're better off not signing it and not allowing lawyer "interpretation" afterwards.
I can't imagine a Ph.D being dumb enough to sign anything that would give these folks a reason to sue. Either that or he *did* take IP with him when he left.
Mod me troll, if you must, I can't help it.
I was so sure it was written by a Finn that I didn't bother checking.
You see, 'orkut' is colloquial Finnish for 'orgasms', which seemed both appropriate and something a Finnish nerd would come up with to describe social interaction.
The power of wishful thinking...
It's insane isn't it? That's like a carpenter bringing the hammer he used on the previous job with him to use on my house! The nerve!
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Obviously, this list of bugs proves Orkut copied his code!
Best Buy can have you arrested