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Daleks Exterminated From New Dr. Who

albino eatpod writes "The BBC are reporting that despite 'the very best deal possible,' a failure to agree terms between the BBC and the estate of late sci-fi writer Terry Nation has meant that we will not being seeing TV's most evil villains in the new series, starring Christopher Eccleston and Billy Piper."

26 of 434 comments (clear)

  1. Daleks and Dollars by mfh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This always happens when you have an estate controlling the interests of an artist or writer. Estate holders only consider the money side of things, but most artists alive wish only to impact the world, by sharing their life-blood with the public -- forget the bottom line. Either that, or the creative community is simply addicted to the process of creation that they don't recognize the business side of things as being very necessary or important. The spirit of art is passion, and sharing passion can make passion spread like a wildfire. I think that it's sacrilege for heirs of creative folks to block the art because of the almighty buck. Therefore, I too will miss our mighty Dalek overlords.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Daleks and Dollars by pubjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Estate holders only consider the money side of things

      No they don't. They often want editorial control as well. Which was the problem in case case, and I believe has been a problem with the Tolkein estate aswell.

    2. Re:Daleks and Dollars by JosKarith · · Score: 4, Funny

      Next episode:
      Dr Who vs. the Lawyers

      Dr Who wants to go to far-flung places, but the evil Lawyers ground him reminding him that it's been 60 years since his TARDIS' last MOT.
      Then, just as that's getting sorted out one of the lawyers points out that an old man enticing a series of (usually skimpily clad) young girls into a secluded telephone booth with promises of of wild adventures is not neccesarily the sort of role model they want to be promoting...

      --
      'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
    3. Re:Daleks and Dollars by lacrymology.com · · Score: 5, Funny

      "I believe has been a problem with the Tolkein estate aswell."

      Oh great! So we won't be able to see Dr. Who fight Hobbits either!?!?

      -m

      --

      #
      # Modus Ponens
      #
    4. Re:Daleks and Dollars by bman08 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      " Shame the Tolkein estate didn't have editorial control over those dreadful films." Yet I believe that Suess's wife had a good deal of control over both the Grinch and Cat in the Hat, so you never can tell. Not to mention the wonderful things the Herbert family is doing with Dune. Estates are run by people. Some are greedy, others are altruistic. Perhaps a bus will hit Lucas and the Estate will choose to release Star Wars (the real one) on DVD.

    5. Re:Daleks and Dollars by Vinnie_333 · · Score: 4, Funny
      The real George Lucas died ages ago.

      If you listen to R2's beeps played backwards, they say, "I buried George".

      --

      "We shall party like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean." - HedonismBot
    6. Re:Daleks and Dollars by garethwi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The main problem with an estate wanting to editorial control is that there isn't a tenth of the talent in there as was in the person who died.

  2. Superior Beings... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bah, they couldn't even climb a flight of stairs!

    1. Re:Superior Beings... by Aggrazel · · Score: 4, Informative

      The doctor (in Tom Baker form) said:

      "If you're supposed to be the supreme beings of the universe, why don't you climb up and get me?"

      This was on the planet with those other androids (Recalling all of this from memory).

      The doctor did in fact believe at that time that the Daleks were so impotent as to not be able to climb simple stairs.

      That would explain the look of terrified confusion on the Doctor's (Sylvestor McCoy) face when the Dalek in Rememberence suddenly was able to climb up the stairs to "get him".

      Aim for the eyepiece.

  3. ...this season. by Doktor+Memory · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a sneaking suspicion that if the new show does well, and is renewed, the Nation estate and the Beeb will suddenly discover their strong mutual interest in reviving the flow of money from Dalek merchandising.

    (Can someone explain to me how it is that Nation's estate personally own the Daleks? Didn't he write those scripts on spec for the BBC?)

    --

    News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.

  4. Lets be honest by Timesprout · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The daleks trundling about would look pretty pathetic to modern kids.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:Lets be honest by gadders · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's not true at all. The world is much more at risk from a Dalek invasion than it ever was in the 70's, due to the various ramps and lifts installed for people in wheelchairs. It's political correctness gone mad.

  5. For the best? by gilesjuk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In some ways it is for the best. It hold back the progression of a TV series if all you do is recreate yet another encounter with the Daleks.

    Perhaps something along the lines of the Borg could be used. The cybermen but a lot more evil. I'm sure someone must have some good ideas.

  6. We have created a new enemy for the Doctor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    In the new version, Davros puts the Dalek bioplasm into Roombas. Exterminate! Exterminate! Exterminate all dirt in deep pile!

  7. More than money by voice+of+unreason · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, money isn't behind this fallout. Basically, when Terry Nation died, he was pissed of at the BBC, and pretty much didn't want them to have the Daleks under most circumstances. So I'm not surprised that the estate is being picky.

    As for the new show, I don't think the lack of Daleks will really hurt it. If you watch the old shows, they had a pretty big variety of popular villians. The Daleks didn't appear in most episodes. The BBC still has lots of other classic villians they can use, like cybermen, autons, the Black Guardian, and the Master, who was always popular. They also had some great baddies that were only on for one storyline, like Sutekh or the Tractators. Really, though, they should also be making up new villians and characters as well, not just using old ones.

    1. Re:More than money by BigBadBus · · Score: 4, Informative
      But if Nation was pissed off with the BBC, why did his lawyers (Roger Hancock) allow the VHS and DVD releases of Blakes 7? Incidentally, I believe that the rights to that series have now reverted to another group with the intention of updating it.

      I'm not sure editorial control is the reason why the Daleks use in the new Dr.Who show was vetoed. If you recall, and you live in the UK, there was an advert showing the Daleks wandering around a shopping mall with a group of tambourine banging hippies saying "WE LOVE YOU!"

      Also, in the past, Hancock have said that they will allow Daleks to appear in shows etc., but ONLY if they don't say anything. I think the reason for this is because the look of the Daleks is retained by the BBC, but what they say and do is retained by the creator.

      I suspect the reason for the Daleks being booted out is simple - money. Hancock have been well known, allegedly, for demanding huge pots of money for the use of the Daleks. Thats why it took so long to get the remaining Dalek stories novelised - and why Eric Saward had refused to do the two outstanding stories that he wrote (Nation's lawyers wanted something like 75% of the profits of the book ISTR). Hancock also came down heavy on a fan magazine in the 1980s who produced a photonovel of the missing story "The Power of the Daleks". Despite the money from the novel going to charity, Hancock wanted a lot of cash, until Gary Levy, the editor of the magazine reminded Hancock that Nation wrote the script, and that surely the designer (Raymond Cusick) and script editor (David Whittaker) deserved equal credit as they were both instrumental in the success of the Daleks, but whom, as BBC staff, were not eligible to receive a penny in royalties from the tinpot meanies.

  8. Short Borg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe they could get permission to use the Borg. Short ones. With wheels instead of legs. And with annoying voices. "You will be assimilated! Assimilate! Assimilate!"

  9. I've studied the Dalek's at length... by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 5, Funny


    ...at this site and I can see Dr. Who's problem. Without the Daleks, what new peril's will Dr. Who face if he's matched against a villian that could chase him up a ladder or through a narrow passage? If I ran the estate of Terry Nation I'd come to terms with the BBC before the BBC realizes "TV's most evil villians" are a cross between a shuttlecock and a salt shaker.

  10. Hardly by mccalli · · Score: 5, Interesting
    ...but most artists alive wish only to impact the world, by sharing their life-blood with the public -- forget the bottom line.

    It's a nice, romantic view but it isn't the case here. Terry Nation had a serious falling out with the BBC over control and payments, and continually refused the BBC permission to use them. I believe various other monsters are involved as well - a true Whovian will be able to fill the details in here, as opposed to myself who just watches the programmes on cable sometimes.

    Plus, the BBC doesn't have a very good record with Daleks. There aren't very many working models left, and when the BBC borrowed one from the Dr Who Exhibition in Llangollen (now back in Blackpool after god know's hoow many years) they managed to damage it.

    Nope, I'm not at all surprised by this decision. And to be honest, I'm not all bothered either. It would be nice for a bit of continuity I suppose, but really I'm sure they can find more villians to go up against.

    More worrying to me is the idea of 50 minute stand-alone episodes, rather than maybe half-hour installments that you had before. I really feel they need to keep the cliffhangers that used to typify the series.

    Cheers,
    Ian

    1. Re:Hardly by Gordonjcp · · Score: 5, Interesting
      There used to be (5-6 years ago) a Dalek as part of the window display of a garage in Elgin. I used to go past it on my way from Aberdeen to Inverness. I stopped in once, and asked the owner. He said it was a real Dalek, rescued from being disposed of by the BBC.


      Last time I went past, it was an outdoor clothing shop (wtf?). Didn't see the Dalek, but it might be worth chasing.

    2. Re:Hardly by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Either the BBC made a hell of a lot of them or they've been breeding while we weren't looking ... I think maybe everyone who can make a passable replica does the throwaway "genuine dalek" thing.
      No, it's very possible the BBC made a hell of a lot of them. Most people don't notice, but the styles of Dalek fashion have changed considerably over the years, particularly in their color schemes. The last few Dalek series featured sort of a war between two factions of Daleks, one sort of cream-colored and the others the more traditional dark grey. The little lights on the sides of their heads have changed regularly throughout the years, too. What's more, the idea that the BBC would throw away such a thing is hardly crazy, either -- they threw away countless original masters of Doctor Who episodes as well, back in the days when reruns on the BBC were unheard-of.
      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  11. Dalek's were a bit overrated anyway.... by JackJudge · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I mean look at their track record, after Davros was introduced they were reduced to the level of galactic criminals and pests, not the all conquering ruthless invaders we feared from the show's first decade.
    Fanboys will prolly argue that in Genesis OFTD, where Davros was introduced, the Time Lords asked the Doctor to interfere to hamstring their development. He succeeded only too well. As long as Davros was around he caused so much internal strife among the Daleks, culminating in a civil war, that they realy were just shadows of their former selves.

  12. Re:DMCA Anyone by zakezuke · · Score: 4, Informative

    Aftereffects of the irradiation of Skaro, you see.

    I have always been fuzzy on this issue. Watching the first Dalek episode it would lead me to believe that they were mutated from the radation. But the Tom Baker episode showed that Davros was geneticly manipluating the pepole of Skaro into what he believed they were evolving into. Also he removed the Daleks conscience, something his fellow scientests strongly objected to. They were exterminated.

    As far as as i'm aware, Davros is the father of the Daleks. The mutated creatures were his insperation, but the final design was his, which would be his undoing as the supreme Dalek didn't want to fight Davros for control over the Dalek race, and pitty wasn't in it's vocabulary.

    --
    There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
  13. Copyright Too Long by Famatra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What benefit is it to society to have copyright so long that the great grandchildren of the authors have say over the work?

    Copyright should end at death, and be at most 30 years in length. 30 years seems like a reasonable amount of time to get money out of the monopoly on the expression of an idea.

    1. Re:Copyright Too Long by Andy_R · · Score: 4, Funny

      The problem with copyright ending at death is that spouses and children need some form of income.

      Would you really want to see Yoko Ono made destitute and penniless when John was killed?

      Ok, maybe that was a bad example :-)

      Would you really want to see Courtney L.... erm... Paula Yates... erm... someone help me out here!

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    2. Re:Copyright Too Long by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Copyright should end at death, and be at most 30 years in length. 30 years seems like a reasonable amount of time to get money out of the monopoly on the expression of an idea."

      No way. If that were permitted, you'd have hired goons killing the copyright owners so publishers could stop writing out royalty checks. I mean, c'mon, look at the history of the RIAA screwing living artists out of their checks, or the various motion picture companies cooking the books to wipe out percentage profits. To this day, Warner Bros. Pictures claims they haven't made a profit off 1989's Batman motion picture.

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*