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Taiwanese Makers Will Squeeze DVD Recorder Prices

Posted by timothy on from the you-betcha dept.

GeXX points out this PC World article predicting vastly lower prices on DVD recorders, in large part because cheap, high-volume Taiwanese manufacturers will have a greater percentage of the market, currently dominated by Japanese makers.

102 comments

  1. If you can't innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    take advantage of cheap labor to undercut the competetion who actually invented the idea.
    All this and they still can't even get my brand new g5 delivered to me, why do I have to wait a fucking week?

    1. Re:If you can't innovate by 3riol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sums it up, really. By the way, not everyone wants to innovate. Look at DELL, all they do is look at the competition and deliver the same cheaper. Dell says it himself in an interview (if you can survive the fawning interviewer, berk): they look at the market and decide what's worth making in high volume, low cost. And judging from a quick google search, that seems to be equated with genius by marketroids and their journalists.

      I still don't understand why this made the front page on /., but anyway, bummer about your G5.

    2. Re:If you can't innovate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      shhh! this is slashdot where invention, and innovation happen magically or due to the altruism of people and all CDs and DVds should be sold for the price of the plastic it takes to make them plus at most a two or three percent reasonable profit.

      except for "limited edition" lord of the rings crap. those people deserve money. oh yes, and probably stuff for that new hitchhikers guide movie too.

  2. Re:$30 isn't cheap enough? by alex_ware · · Score: 2, Informative

    $30 is for a player not a recorder.
    show me a $30 recorder

    --
    If you have nothing useful to say post as AC.
  3. That's good news. by Lispy · · Score: 4, Informative

    But, living in germany, the taxes on DVD-recorders (german, sorry) will probably eat up the win for the consumer.

    Google translation here.

    1. Re:That's good news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That doesn't mention taxes, it is royalties that the chinese companies aren't paying that they should, to the companies that own patents relating to DVD players.

    2. Re:That's good news. by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 1

      And german suppliers will STILL be allot cheaper then Dutch suppliers. Cheapest dvd player around here is about 69 or 89 euro. And stuff at those price is only for sale in an Aldi or Lidl. ( German supermarkets, for those of you who don't have a clue what I'm talking about ) We the Dutch elevated taxing to a religion; 19% VAT on anything electronic, copyright extor- uhm, protection taxes on blank media, outrageous amounts of regular taxes, etcetera. Thankfully, we live next to Germany so we can always buy stuff over there at about 75% down to 50% of the price here in the NL due to excessive taxing. Heck, with Pentium being classiefied as weapons, I'm sure Harry Potter will find some other way to tax a few more euros out of us again. How does "Weapons Trade & Distribution Tax" sound?

      In short: Don't complain and buy me one of those dual-layer DVD RW drives, will you? :P

      --
      Hate me!
    3. Re:That's good news. by Klanglor · · Score: 1

      bah, as long as tax are in %10 or in A fix rate, you will get your discount.

      I don't know the actual prices but here are two scenarios

      -PERCENTAGE-
      DISCOUNT of 50% :: 200$ * .5 = 100$
      TAX on DVD :: 100$ * 1.15 = 115$
      -still 85$ off-

      or
      -FIX-
      DISCOUNT of 50% :: 200$ * .5 = 100$
      TAX on DID 50$ :: 100$ + 50$ = 150$
      -still 50$ off-

      work you number out, you will still get a discount of something. and i don't know in germany, but people here cuts little coupons to save 30cents on candy bar. discount = good!

    4. Re:That's good news. by etaylor · · Score: 1


      The article is talking about Chinese (PRC) companies, not Taiwanese (ROC) companies.
      So it looks like the Germans are in luck.

    5. Re:That's good news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yhay for America's marginally freer economy. I bought a DVD for $1 yesterday at Wal-Mart. Granted it was the 1934 version of "The Scarlet Pimpernel: and the film's preservation and "digitalization" quality were low, yhay anyway. But I like that movie and Leslie Howard is a great actor. And when I got through my next round of clean out the CD/DVD collection I'll probably sell it for a $1 to Books for Half price. Hay can I move to Europe and open a used DVD shop. Or will the government tax those too? Insert gripe here------ As a time obsessed impatient American who only owns legal DVD and Videos (honestly my collection is small because i mostly rent them), I'm getting really sick of looking that FBI copy right protected screen on he DVDs I rent. At least in the good old days of video you could fast forward through that part. (D'oh my age just showed.) I'm I the only one who finds it really annoying to be unable to control my DVD player if only for a minute, and also insulting?

  4. Great by elbazo · · Score: 1

    More cut price pirate dvd sellers lining my streets *grins*

  5. So what by News+for+nerds · · Score: 1, Redundant

    When you get a CDR drive for dirt cheap price DVD-R drives are still expensive.

    When you get a DVD-recorder dirt-cheap, Blu-ray recorders are still expensive.

    Where's the news? Pleeeeeeeeeease lemme know WHEN THE PRICE ACTUALLY DROPS. 'PREDICTION', NO THANKS.

    1. Re:So what by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      dvd-r and even duallayer drives are already 'dirt cheap'..

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:So what by gilesjuk · · Score: 2, Informative

      59 UK pounds for a dual layer writer is expensive?

      It's only about 2x the price of a CD writer for about 9 times the storage capacity.

  6. I wonder. by ceeam · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Article mentions recorders @ $220 a piece. Considering I could buy perfectly ok recorder @ $80 at the local shop... Well, when was the article really written? I guess prices did plunge since then alreayd.

    1. Re:I wonder. by sane? · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Err, I think they mean consumer DVD recorders that take the place of your VHS recorder (since they mention MPEG2 chips). These are still not $110 (65) a piece, so hold your horses.

    2. Re:I wonder. by Anita+Coney · · Score: 1

      They're talking about stand-alone burners.

      --
      If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
    3. Re:I wonder. by mgs1000 · · Score: 1
      I believe they are talking about standalone DVD recorders that record television, not the drives that you install in computers.

      MIC says a drop in the price of key components, including DVD loaders and MPEG-2 decoder chips

    4. Re:I wonder. by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      stand alone burners suck, until DVD media drops below $.25/disk I want to be able to edit before I burn.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    5. Re:I wonder. by Pensacola+Tiger · · Score: 1

      You need to check out a DVR/DVD-R hybrid, like the Panasonic DMR E80H. Editing, DVD-RAM, DVD-R, all in a standalone unit.

    6. Re:I wonder. by hattig · · Score: 1

      They are meant to record the VHS recorder for casual recording and viewing, and perhaps as a TiVo backup thing. i.e., you record the football when you are out, or Star Trek, or any number of shows that Fox will consider cancelling just as they get good. I suppose the sensible person would use a DVD-RW for recording purposes. What is it? 2? 3? hours of DVD quality recording time on a medium that isn't clunky and doesn't lose clarity.

      I know a lot of consumers who would go for that.

    7. Re:I wonder. by 0x20 · · Score: 1

      No. From the article:

      Taiwanese companies, including BenQ and LiteOn Technology, shipped around 1 million DVD recorders--including DVD+RW drives, DVD-RW drives, and DVD-RAM drives--worth $220 million during the first half of 2004, MIC says.

    8. Re:I wonder. by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      that is pretty cool.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    9. Re:I wonder. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I want to be able to edit before I burn."

      I don't. I want to capture now, and edit later. If it turns out to be worth editing, that is. A second blank is worth the convenience.

      DVD blanks are cheap enough now. They're less than VHS tapes, which I would be very pleased to eliminate.

      For simple time-shifting, hard drive based systems make sense. But if you want to keep what you capture, it's hard to beat the price of optical media.

    10. Re:I wonder. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, no to you.

      That is mentioning that there are Taiwanese manufacturers that will be moving more and more from computer drives, into stand-alone units meant to replace VCRs...

    11. Re:I wonder. by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      ugh, you go from full quality DV to archive in lossy MP2?

  7. hmmmm by vmircea · · Score: 4, Insightful

    although one might see this as good, you have to wonder whether or not the extremely cheap products will be of good quality, not to say that they won't, but if they are significantly cheaper you have to be at least a bit wary... but hey this is great, because everyone will have to drop their prices to compete, meaning that all the buyers win on this... but you have to consider the companies who are currently selling their burners for high prices... what happens if they have to cut their prices in half to stay competitive? they could go under, which would be a bad thing..

    1. Re:hmmmm by Biogenesis · · Score: 1

      Or it could mean that *everyone* will simply start producing cheap garbage and you won't be able to buy a quality product regardless of how much you want to pay.

      I would much rather pay an extra $10 or $20 just to know that what I'm buying will last me more than warranty+1day, there are people who don't have an upgrade cycle longer that 6 months and want something they know will simply last.

      --
      ...just so Google finds it.
    2. Re:hmmmm by 0x20 · · Score: 1

      the dvd recorder (nec nd-1300) that i bought last year for $130 is now selling for $65. i am pretty sure that 1) that difference came out of the retailer's massively inflated markup, and 2) that nec's manufacturing costs have also been reduced by a comparable amount in the time since.

      nec (or whomever) is not ever going to make a habit of selling the hardware for less than what it costs to make (unlike microsoft, they're not selling software for the DVD burner to make up the loss).

      the market will dictate where the prices can go. if prices drop too low, then the companies that can't manage to sell the hardware for those prices will have to adapt or get out of the way. that's obviously good for consumers, but also good for companies, which are forced to operate economically to stay viable and hence are better primed to evolve when the opportunity comes. a company that's too fat and slow to be competitive doesn't deserve to win in this kind of race.

    3. Re:hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! A whole extra $20?! You suger daddy you; I bet the electronic companies will be falling over themselves to furnish you with extra high quality goods!

    4. Re:hmmmm by Simonetta · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When the CD recorders first appeared cheaply (less than $200 US) about six years ago, I bought one from Mitsumi and it lasted eight months with light use. They wouldn't honor the warranty; they wouldn't pick up the telephone for the customer-support line or answer e-mails.
      A second CDRW, a BTC, lasted eleven months before dying and I was able to get a warranty replacement that still works five years later. A third, a brand and model recommended as a best-buy by PC World magazine lasted six months. Again a worthless warranty due to the companie's refusal to answer e-mail or phone calls.
      My current CD-RW, an Artec WRA, has lasted two years with no problems with moderate use.

      So with time, devices like CD/DVD writers get better in quality even as the price drops.

      I considered buying a 8x DVD writer for $99 at the local discount electronics store. But, reviewing my notes at the difficulties with the quality of early CD recorders made me postpone buying one. I'll wait several more years, or until I have a pressing need to put 4.7Gig on a single disk.

      I've found that using the 'DVDdecoder' program I can copy movies from DVDs to my hard drive in VOB files that are 700 megabytes in size each. In this manner a movie can be backed up from DVD to CD-R using about six or seven CDs per film. It's inconvenient, yes, but it does work until the DVD recorders become more reliable.

      Thank you,

    5. Re:hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the dvd recorder (nec nd-1300) that i bought last year for $130

      That's not a dvd recorder, it's a dvd burner. Yes, there is a difference. See the first question here.

  8. Is price still an issue ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting


    DVD players have never been cheaper, i can get a player with a fantastic range of features (DVD,DivX,XVid,MP3,WMA,S/K/VCD) for 50 smackers!, think of the huge energy resources that went into creating it all for a throw away price

    1. Re:Is price still an issue ? by 3riol · · Score: 1

      I've used one, and picture and interface both sucked. Horribly. (The speakers I tried it with did too, so I don't know about the sound.)
      The good thing is, when these appear, it pressures the 'real' manufacturers to lower their prices, which is a good thing. But in hardware, you still get what you pay for.

    2. Re:Is price still an issue ? by 3riol · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Right, as for the pollution issue: well, yeah. Again, the little 'energy-saving' and other stickers add to the price, and let's not wonder why products are (hardly) never manufactured in our countries anymore, where there are environment-protection and workers' rights laws (well, I speak for my own here). But whatever the side effects of mass production are, blame the buyer, not the maker. He'll only manufacture stuff that sells.

  9. Hard to believe by dbarclay10 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is kind of odd, really; I can get good capable-of-all-relevant-formats DVD burners for about $100CAD (about $75USD) each. Good CD burners cost around $60CAD. So what, DVD burners are going to go down to that level soon? Not that I won't be happy, but it's kind of hard to believe. The March of Technology goes on, I suppose.

    --

    Barclay family motto:
    Aut agere aut mori.
    (Either action or death.)
    1. Re:Hard to believe by Karna99 · · Score: 1

      Just wondering if you might be Dan Barclay. kind of funny since I lived with a roommate in second year who had the same name and family motto. He was not really into computers...unless you count surfing for porn ;) dev

    2. Re:Hard to believe by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      This is kind of odd, really; I can get good capable-of-all-relevant-formats DVD burners for about $100CAD (about $75USD) each. Good CD burners cost around $60CAD.

      Are CD burners that expensive in Canada? Assuming 1 CAD = 0.75 USD that's like $45.00. I can pickup a Liteon, Sony or a Samsung local for $30-$35usd ($40-46CAD). It's possible you mean the retail box, or your cd-r drives are taxed extra. The only reason I point this out is you quote for a DVD burner of $100CCA / $75USD is right on the money with what I expect to pay mail order for a NEC/Lite on/sony, close to what i'd pay local for an OEM edition. If CD-burners are taxed, perhaps because you can copy music with them, it would strike me as funny if DVD burners that can do CD were not taxed.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    3. Re:Hard to believe by Jardine · · Score: 1

      Are CD burners that expensive in Canada? Assuming 1 CAD = 0.75 USD that's like $45.00. I can pickup a Liteon, Sony or a Samsung local for $30-$35usd ($40-46CAD). It's possible you mean the retail box, or your cd-r drives are taxed extra.

      CD burners are not taxed extra in Canada. Media isn't taxed at time of purchase either, the levy is paid by the manufacturer and passed onto the consumer.

      The grandparent post is probably going by the price of a drive at Futureshop (like Best Buy). Check out a site like ncix.com for good prices. Right now they have a Liteon drive on sale for $37CDN. Regular price is about $45CDN. Oddly enough they also have a DVD burner for $74CDN. It's a BenQ though.

  10. Interesting... by dncsky1530 · · Score: 4, Informative

    heres another source I found: DVD recorder prices fall as production surges in Taiwan

    But it apears that they are already cheap if you know where to shop.

    1. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it apears that they are already cheap if you know where to shop.

      Where do you connect the TV on that one? :-\

      (hint)

  11. Are the format wars over yet? by mst76 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I haven't been following the DVD formats, so can someone tell me if the DVD+/-RW thing has been settled yet? And whether we'll have to go through the whole thing again with DVD-HD and Blu-Ray? And whether for backups I'm not better off just buying some cheap IDE hard disks and put them in an external enclosure?

    1. Re:Are the format wars over yet? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Now DVD burners usually support both + and - format.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:Are the format wars over yet? by xigxag · · Score: 1
      can someone tell me if the DVD+/-RW thing has been settled yet?

      Found this here.

      In Europe, DVD+RW products have captured a 76 percent share of the DVD market, while DVD-RW and DVD-RAM have 14 percent and 10 percent, respectively. In the United States, DVD+RW has a 72 percent market share, while 19 percent goes to DVD-RW and 9 percent to DVD-RAM.

      Most makers contacted have adopted DVD plus. Wu Xiang-chun, a representative from the overseas division of Amoi, pointed out that a uniform standard will boost the industry. Wu predicted that the format debate will be settled by year's end.

      Most makers in Taiwan produce recorders that only support the DVD+RW recording format, although some dual models support both DVD plus and DVD minus. DivX can also be supported depending on the chipset used to build the DVD recorder.
      --
      There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
    3. Re:Are the format wars over yet? by bluGill · · Score: 1

      Yep. At this point nearly all drive support both, and even in the cases where only one is supported, it often reads to the other.

      So don't worry about it, buy a drive, and then buy compatable media. This should not be a surprise, as both formats were designed with the idea of allowing DVD players to play disks they record. There never was a reason to expect that one would win, it isn't like BETA vs. VHS where the formats were physically incompatible.

  12. Do they get paid... by rmezzari · · Score: 0, Troll

    ...for doing those lame predictions? Of course the prices will drop. Hey, I'll do a prediction too: The 3.0 GHz Atlhon will be cheaper in six months.

    Gosh...

    --
    "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds !"
  13. The big question is... by mangu · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...will they be able to copy the custom DVD's the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is creating?

    1. Re:The big question is... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Since you cannot play them on an arbitrary player, it doesn't really matter if you can copy them.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  14. Semantic Key For The Clueless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    DVD Burner - A 5.25" boxy thing you put into your computer case. Almost gratis.

    DVD Recorder - A stand-alone consumer electronics device you connect to your TV-set. Includes shiny packaging and remote control. No computer needed. Costs a bundle.

    1. Re:Semantic Key For The Clueless by Biogenesis · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's a good point why is it that a DVD burner costs (in Australia) $150-$200 while a DVD recorder costs ~$1200? Like when you consider say a TV tuner card for $100 (which I believe is quite expensive, I haven't looked at them for a long time) you can record TV with your computer for $300 tops. Now does it really cost $900 for the dedicated ADC chip to encode the AV signal?

      --
      ...just so Google finds it.
    2. Re:Semantic Key For The Clueless by prewashedironman · · Score: 2

      I believe that the $100 Tv tuner isn't doing any encoding, it's just offloading that to the processor - the mpeg encoder chip increases the price quite a lot. Plus with a dvd recorder the picture will be much much better - have you seen the quality of wome of the cheap Tv tuners?

    3. Re:Semantic Key For The Clueless by blackmonday · · Score: 1

      Standalone DVD recorders are not expensive anymore. I saw a DVD recorder for $200 at costco a week ago. Firewire in, remote, all the bells and whistles. I might just get that pretty soon, it even had a TV tuner. It only supported DVD+R(and RW) (why?) and was some brand I'd never heard of. But hey it's Costco, no stupid restocking fee if you don't like it.

    4. Re:Semantic Key For The Clueless by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A Hauppague PVR-250 and 350 cost something like $150 and $250, respectively, and both have on-board MPEG and some other goodies, although I think they only record 480x480 when the standard for NTSC DVD is 720x480.

      I do agree some tuners on the cheap cards are somewhat nasty, and the chip capturing that tuned signal sometimes isn't so hot either. Unless you reneed Linux support, I suggest using Philip's SAA series chips over BookTree's (now Connexant) 8x8 series. Connexant does make a better video capture chip, 238xx series, I think, which happens to be somewhat compatible with the old Bt8x8 series.

    5. Re:Semantic Key For The Clueless by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      "That's a good point why is it that a DVD burner costs (in Australia) $150-$200 while a DVD recorder costs ~$1200?"

      Here in the USA, an 8x multiformat DVD burner is around $80-$90 if you shop online.

      A DVD recorder is around $200-$300. Prices have fallen signifigantly. Look at this. $229 for a DVD recorder. Not bad at all.

      So, it looks like people in Australia are just getting ripped off. DVD recorders have been under $300 for about five months now in the US.

    6. Re:Semantic Key For The Clueless by leomekenkamp · · Score: 1

      Both the PVR 250 and 350 come with on board MPEG2 (and MPEG1) encoder (350 has h/w MPEG2 decoder also), and can record full PAL and/or NTSC resolutions at a quality better than what Discovery Channel uses for some broadcasts (can see artifacts) with a max. of 12 megabit / sec.

      The ivtv project has a working driver in alpha afaik.

      --
      Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
    7. Re:Semantic Key For The Clueless by ElliotLee · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised that computers with DVD burners themselves haven't squeezed DVD recorder prices.

  15. They're already cheap! by DrEldarion · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You can already get an 8x dual-format DVD burner for $70, which (IMO) is very cheap as it is for a DVD burner. If you don't mind going slower, you can get a 4x for around $50, or slower ones for even cheaper. And if you go refurbished...

    What I'd like to see is concentration on faster drives and, more importantly, faster and cheaper MEDIA! We already have 12x drives and dual-layer drives, but that doesn't help us if nobody can find and/or afford the fast/high-capacity media to burn in those drives!

  16. All in! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Okay, I call.

    Considering the fastest available Athlon is 2400MHz it'd be AMAZING if there were a 3.0GHz Athlon in six months.

  17. SCSI DVD-R by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Does anyone make SCSI units? Or is everything ATAPI?

    Would love to find a good SCSI unit.

    1. Re:SCSI DVD-R by ovoskeuiks · · Score: 1

      I don't quite see the benefit there.. Am I wrong in understanding that ATAPI performs well in long sequential transfers like burning a dvd or is there some other plus to using scsi for a device like this?

    2. Re:SCSI DVD-R by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ATAPI tends to hog the I/O bus and send CPU usage sky high.
      SCSI plays nicer with other processes.

    3. Re:SCSI DVD-R by zakezuke · · Score: 1


      Does anyone make SCSI units? Or is everything ATAPI?

      The Pioneer DVR-S201 DVD-r external SCSI drive. 1x recording for $4000 or so. 1x dvd-r I believe. It's the only one I am aware of.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
  18. DVD-Recorders, not DVD+/-R/RW Drives by BWS · · Score: 2, Informative

    just to be clear, they are talking about DVD-Recorders; those are the things you hookup to your TV and record TV shows...

    not the DVD-/+ R/RW drives your computer uses..

    --
    -- Note: These Comments are Generated by ME! Not You! ME!
  19. news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't really news...it was expected to happen with the new wave of dvd burning technology coming out at the end of the year...

  20. Low Price on Yesterday's Newspaper and Stale Bread by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

    Yawn. I have 3 DVD burners now, and don't need another one. What I would be much more interested in is reasonable prices on Blu-Ray recorders and media.

  21. It's a cycle! by igrp · · Score: 3, Interesting
    If you like at the big picture, it's all part of a cycle. CD-R drives and USB sticks are so cheap and in wide-spread use these days that they've widely replaced conventional discs (at least, if you're looking at the middle class in developed countries).

    These days, it's actually not uncommon to be looked at strangely if you pull a 3.5" disc out of your briefcase. In a few years, a 3.5" disc will be as much of an exotic, strange relict as 5.25" discs are today. Many people these days, have never even seen or used a ZIP drive or a magnetic tape.

    As DVD records become cheaper (I rememeber when they were around $1500 not too long ago and people would ask why anyone would want a DVD burner) and, perhaps more importantly, DVD media reaches price levels currently associated with CD-R media more and more low-budget computers will come equipped with DVD-burners and not CD-RW drives.

    That's, at least in my humble opinion, one of the main reason CD-RW never really took off. There was just no reason to use rewriteable CDs. With relatively high-capacitiy recordable DVDs becoming widely available, CD-Rs just became so cheap there was no reason to reuse a CD-R.
    In a couple of years, CD-R will only be used to burn audio CDs. Most computers can already read DVDs so there's no reason for DVD-R/DVD+R not to be used even more widely.

    And the next DVD standard is already in the pipelines. Early adopters, new developments, consumer demand and, probably, the industry's demand for IP protection will eventually push the prices down enough for the new standards to replace the current DVD standard. The only thing that I think could interfere with this cycle is distributed computing along with truely distributed storage.

    1. Re:It's a cycle! by wwphx · · Score: 1

      I think it's a little simpler than that. CD-R & -RW have their place: big file transfers, making music/MP3 CDs when you don't have an MP3 jukebox, inexpensive media, etc. But hard drive capacity has grown to such a point that they are no longer viable for system backups. Even my frickin' laptop, 4 1/2 years old as it is, has a 30 gig HD that you just can't back up on CD, it requires a DVD. I can back up critical data, but I can't do a full system backup with just 650-700 meg a disc.

      Writable CD has been so eclipsed by growth in HD capacity that it just isn't funny. DVD can do a fair job of backing up systems if properly managed, but it's going to be the Blu-Ray and multi-layer or a heretofor unknown technology that's going to make a diff for backup purposes.

      --
      When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
    2. Re:It's a cycle! by Col+Bat+Guano · · Score: 1
      These days, it's actually not uncommon to be looked at strangely if you pull a 3.5" disc out of your briefcase.

      Not half as strangely as when I pull my 8" floppy discs from the mid 80's...

  22. Price of the DVD itself ? by aepervius · · Score: 1

    DVD recorder price is going down. *yaaawn*. First the price of dvd (the one with film) is still SOOOooo high that now for the price of 3 dvd you can get a reader. Now the recorder will be cheap. To record *WHAT* ? With all those macrovision , protection scheme, DMCA, drm, and evil bit stopping you making copy of broadcast, what will be the usage of those device ? These day I am barely using my PVR to record anything...

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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    visit randi.org
  23. Re:$30 isn't cheap enough? by SHEENmaster · · Score: 1

    PANASONIC DVD-S31 DVD RECORDER AND PLAYER PLAYERS on eBay for US $24.50

    (Do NOT bid. The seller made the same mistake I did; that's really just a low-end player.)

    --
    You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
  24. Re:$30 isn't cheap enough? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    $2100??? What a blatant lie. Not only is it not a recorder (only a progressive scan DVD player) but it is available in stores for around $80 new.

  25. Re:$30 isn't cheap enough? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not only that but "THIS UNIT IS MISSING CONTROL KNOB ." Who are all these fucking clutzes who keep breaking shit? I've never once managed to fuck up a single peice of electronic equipment I own. What sort of asshole forks out $2100 for a DVD player and then breaks it?

  26. An Even Bigger, Explicit Key For You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article:

    Taiwanese companies, including BenQ and LiteOn Technology, shipped around 1 million DVD recorders--including DVD+RW drives, DVD-RW drives, and DVD-RAM drives--worth $220 million during the first half of 2004, MIC says.

  27. DRM by t_allardyce · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Outside hardware manufacturers are less likely to be controlled by hollywood so hopefully we can get cheap hardware that also ignores drm right? - broadcast flags, fast-forward flags etc. If the market can be flooded with these things then people will be less likely to take the MPAAs bullshit on broadcast flags. Technically they wouldnt be able to use the DVD logo but its not like the music industry cares about messing with formats (RIAA and MPAA are pretty much the same thing).

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  28. DVD Recorders, not burners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been waiting for the promised price drop since EET published an article about new recorder chipsets from LSI and Philips. Looks like those $200 recorders may finally get here.

    As others have pointed out, this story is about stand-alone set-top recorders, the DVD equivalent of a VCR. I'd love to have such a device for transferring my tapes to DVDs. I don't mind editing and mastering DVDs on my computer, but I don't really like tying it up for video capture.

    I've looked at devices such as the Canopus ADVC-100, but if I can get a stand-alone system that includes a tuner and burner in addition to analog and Firewire in/outs, then that makes life a whole lot simpler. I'd rather remaster a DVD at a convenient time, if needed, than go the whole capture-edit-master-burn cycle every time.

  29. Is cheap good? by mratitude · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When VCR's were as cheap as $100 and came with all the bells and whistles, I bought a Sony that cost $500. On the surface, that didn't make any sense to most anyone at the time. However, 10 years later I still have that VCR and it functions as well as the day I bought it. The only problem I've had with it is the occasional head demag and I've had to replace grease that had crystalized and wasn't allowing the tape-grab assembly from keeping tension on the tape as it inserted/ejected the tape.

    So, I can get a DVD Recorder cheap but can I buy only one and enjoy its use till the media format nears obsolescence?

    --


    Mod me troll, if you must, I can't help it.
    1. Re:Is cheap good? by cd-w · · Score: 1

      For that money you could have bought 5 of the cheap ones and kept pace with more recent developments (nicam, widescreen, etc.)

    2. Re:Is cheap good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and i bought a samsung for $100 around that time and it's still working as well as it did when i bought it. and i've never had to replace any grease and only demagnetized the headsonce.

      what's your point?

    3. Re:Is cheap good? by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      When VCR's were as cheap as $100 and came with all the bells and whistles, I bought a Sony that cost $500. On the surface, that didn't make any sense to most anyone at the time. However, 10 years later I still have that VCR and it functions as well as the day I bought it. The only problem I've had with it is the occasional head demag and I've had to replace grease that had crystalized and wasn't allowing the tape-grab assembly from keeping tension on the tape as it inserted/ejected the tape.

      I wouldn't buy a Sony VCR these days as their warrenty is sub-standard. I have to go by memory as the sonysite isn't co-operating with me I believe it was 6 months parts/labor followed by 1 year parts for VCRS, even DVD with VCR onboard.

      I've owned a few VCRs. My first was a Toshiba bought like 1985. It reached the point that it needed greese by 1997, but frankly by that point I wanted a new one with multiable AV inputs as well as a digital tuner. Oh and it wasn't stereo. Not sure what I spent on it, it was it was between $100-$200 as it was a front loader. It's still in service if I need to copy tapes. I was damned annoyed that it lasted for over 10 years, I was waiting for it to break to justify the purchace of a new stereo model.

      It's replacement was a JVC bought for $75/$80. It didn't have a flying erase head or a clock, but all its other features were top notich, still in service. The unit with a flying erase head would have cost me $100 at the time.

      Now it's possible you are happy with your $500 Sony VCR because of it's features and long life. But make no mistake, you didn't nessicarly save money. I have spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 over a period of 19 years on VCRs. I see where you are comming from though.

      So, I can get a DVD Recorder cheap but can I buy only one and enjoy its use till the media format nears obsolescence?

      You can hardly buy a DVD player that fully supports DVD+/-R(W). While it's somewhat common for players to deal with home brewed discs, playback is more flacky and I have NO clue about dual layer playability. Plus the fact that you have to hunt for players that support the newer mpeg-4 standards, and not all players will do DVD-mp3. And who knows, DVD audio might become hip, DVD-A or SACD might become the standard or there might be a new standard. The best you can hope for is a DVD-recorder that takes a DVD-burner that you can swap out with ease as well as software updatability.

      But unlike the 20th century, you can easily copy DVDs on a PC so what ever format is next chances are you can crank off copies of your media faster then real time.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
  30. But there will be newer things.... by John+Seminal · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Just like at one point my 8X CD-RW cost $200, I can now get a 52X CD-RW for $35. But who really wants a CD-RW, who longs for one? DVD+/-RW will continue to fall in price, but there is something new just around the corner. Dual Layer DVD's are there, and for those who want to back-up their DVD collection 1 disk to 1 disk will want the Dual Layer DVD+/-RW. There is always something new and better. The question is knowing what to buy and when. I got screwed 10 years ago buying an IBM PC because I beleived the salesperson that microchanel would become a standard and the AT clone machines would all cruble. I could not upgrade that machine because everything was proprietary and cost three times as much.

    I think this is just like hard drives. When I had my PIII500, I thought the 12 gig hard drive that came with it was all the space in the world, that I would never need more. Then I found napster, and those 12 gigs seemed so small.

    I for one am happy with these price falls because I am one who can not afford to buy the newest and greatest.

    The only thing I hate is the mail in rebate. If this 50% price fall comes in the way of the mail in rebate, they might as well not lower the price at all.

    --

    Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

    1. Re:But there will be newer things.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha, microchannel.

      I had a PS/1, I had to get that stupid huge addon just to install a soundblaster.. heheh.

  31. And one for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The $200 price point refers to stand alone recorders, not DVD burner drives.

    Obviously, the drive is a major part of the cost of a stand alone system. But so is the MPEG2 encoder chip. There's a new generation of cheaper, better, controllers that include hardware encoding and decoding. That's worthwhile even if all you do is convert between analog and Firewire DV, without even using the burner.

    That burner prices are coming down is not news. Encoder prices coming down is big news. It also means that maybe we can get away from crap like Sigma chips, with their cavalier approach to GPL software. LSI Logic and Philips are much, much better members of the free software world.

  32. TV-based DVD recorders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I have a Philips DVDR-70 which records from an integral analogue TV receiver, external satellite receiver or auxiliary device connected to a set of audio and video sockets on the front, and uses "plus" media (DV+R, DVD+R/W). There is an RF passthrough but no remodulator, so you need a telly with at least one SCART. Initial set-up is mostly automatic and all menu-driven. If you have an ultra-modern telly with EasyLink, set-up is even easier as it will use the SCART cable to transfer your settings from the TV to the recorder.

    The unit has RGB outputs on the "TV" SCART (with a full picture signal on the timing/picture pin) and RGB inputs on the "AUX" SCART, so you can get a high quality picture if your kit is RGB-capable (most TVs and Sat RXs are).

    There are six recording modes: M1 (better than TV broadcast -- intended for digital and high-bandwidth analogue camcorders) gives one hour on a 4.7GB disc. M2 (pre-recorded DVD quality) gives two hours, M2X gives 150 minutes, M3 gives three hours, M4 (VHS short-play quality) gives four hours, and M6 (still better than VHS long-play quality) gives six hours. I mostly use M4 for stuff I want to save, since the media are so expensive right now, but when the price of media comes down I will be using M2 for everything.

    As you record, chapter marks are automatically inserted every five minutes; but you can add and delete chapter marks at will after the recording is done. You can even mark chapters as 'not to be shown' -- no need to faff around with the pause key in the advert breaks during the recording phase. Everything between pressing "record" and pressing "stop" is considered a single title, but you can (irreversibly) split a title later. You can also add a name to each title.

    The DVDs you make can be watched on a PC (yes, even with Linux, which I use exclusively) and on some TV-based DVD players -- more modern ones, at any rate. My old one couldn't handle them. There is a procedure mentioned in the manual which is reckoned to make the discs playable on other equipment, but I had already sold the old machine before I got to try it.

    The only complaint I have about the unit is that the screen freezes or cuts to a menu whenever the unit is busy. This can be disconcerting at first, but the picture quality makes up for it. Also, it would have been nice if the machine could grab the subtitles on page 888 and record them as DVD subtitles -- but that's a nitpick of the highest order. By the way, some Betamax recorders used to be able to record enough of the teletext signal, transmitted in the frame retrace period, for you to read the teletext, but I'm sure this was a happy accident rather than a design feature.

    1. Re:TV-based DVD recorders by richt2000 · · Score: 1

      I'd recommend the DVDR-80. I bought one from the Littlewoods outlet shop in Ellesmere Port for 142 last month during their 25% off everything clearance they have every Sunday. Since then, they've made a point in excluding the DVD recorders as 142 was a bargain.

  33. Re:$30 isn't cheap enough? by LaForce · · Score: 1

    This Auction Includes:

    PANASONIC DVD-S31 DVD RECORDER AND PLAYER
    POWER CABLE

    This Auction Includes
    Items Listed Above ONLY.

     So for $31 you get the power cable? It doesn't even say you get the player until after "Includes Items Listed Above Only".

  34. Re:$30 isn't cheap enough? by LaForce · · Score: 1

    Drat, missed a tag, in the auction it's:
    PANASONIC DVD-S31 DVD
    RECORDER AND PLAYER
    POWER CABLE

    Not really sure if it's a list, the way they've broken up the player onto 2 lines. Just as easily could be a DVD-S31 DVD, a player, and a cable as a DVD-S31 player power cable

  35. Re:$30 isn't cheap enough? by zakezuke · · Score: 1

    Not only that but "THIS UNIT IS MISSING CONTROL KNOB ." Who are all these fucking clutzes who keep breaking shit? I've never once managed to fuck up a single peice of electronic equipment I own. What sort of asshole forks out $2100 for a DVD player and then breaks it?

    Two points:

    1. They likely didn't fork out $2100 for a DVD player
    2. Chances are they have kids. Kids are amazingly distructive!

    --
    There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
  36. TAIWAN #1 by darkani · · Score: 0

    we give u americans cheap dvd, so support us against communist china.

  37. As if they weren't low enough by billcopc · · Score: 1

    I for one am _pissed_ (in a childish way) that the DVD burners have fallen in price so damn fast. I can no longer charge a penny for doing quality DVD transfers because now the inbred swine can just buy a 70$ POS burner and it even comes with "DVD Mastering for Dummies" software. There went my 12-month business plan to subsidize the frickin' AV equipment.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
    1. Re:As if they weren't low enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel your pain. Same thing happened with my Desktop Publishing Business.

    2. Re:As if they weren't low enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel your pain. Same thing happened with my business fitting oil lamps to horse-drawn carriages.

  38. AUD != USD by novakreo · · Score: 2, Informative

    "That's a good point why is it that a DVD burner costs (in Australia) $150-$200 while a DVD recorder costs ~$1200?"

    Here in the USA, an 8x multiformat DVD burner is around $80-$90 if you shop online.

    A DVD recorder is around $200-$300. Prices have fallen signifigantly. Look at this. $229 for a DVD recorder. Not bad at all.

    So, it looks like people in Australia are just getting ripped off. DVD recorders have been under $300 for about five months now in the US.

    Biogenesis was using Australian Dollars. Currently $1 USD is approximately $1.40 AUD (or if you prefer, $1 AUD is around $0.71 USD). Prices are actually a bit lower than what he/she has quoted too.

    So your $90 (USD) DVD burner is about $126 in Australia (I've seen them for $120 here), and your $200-$300 (USD) DVD recorder is $280-$420 Australian (again, close to what I've seen advertised). Not much of a difference at all.

    --
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
  39. Re:$30 isn't cheap enough? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Chances are they have kids. Kids are amazingly distructive!

    Worthless parents is what that is then. Our parents would've skinned us alive if we had broken knobs off of the TV or VCR growing up. (And given that the TV knob was a cheap piece of plastic driving a heavy-duty clicking action mechanism... it was a distinct possibility if you didn't take care.)

    WTF is up with not teach kids to be careful around things? Afraid that it'll stunt their emotional growth? Or are the parents just too lazy to get up off the couch and put the fear of god into a misbehaving kid?

  40. DVD Copy software for Windows.... by thetbone · · Score: 1


    So, has anyone used any of the DVD copying software from windows?? Can you make a recommendation, or anti-recommendation??

    1. Re:DVD Copy software for Windows.... by RMH101 · · Score: 1

      DVDShrink. No other.

  41. Who Cares- by poofyhairguy82 · · Score: 1
    The dual layer blanks are too expensive and these stand alone players can't compress large dvd's.

    Who cares if the recorder is cheap if the dual layer blanks cost over $5 (in 100 packs).

    --

    Open Source Sushi

    1. Re:Who Cares- by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      the price of the blanks will fall as they become more common. A 10-pack of 5-1/4" disks for the TRS-80 used to be $40 over twenty years ago. Scale THAT to present day dollars!!

  42. Re:$30 isn't cheap enough? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Worthless parents is what that is then. Our parents would've skinned us alive if we had broken knobs off of the TV or VCR growing up. (And given that the TV knob was a cheap piece of plastic driving a heavy-duty clicking action mechanism... it was a distinct possibility if you didn't take care.)

    It doesn't matter what the parental style is, kids will break things. Small things, big things, trivial thigns, important things. You can be ultra strict or be mega mellow, doesn't matter, kids will break things.

    The fact that your parents would skin you alive if you broke a knob was because kids are really good at breaking things.

    I shouldn't put all the blame on the kids, as adults can break things too.

  43. BenQ pricing must be for real by macraig · · Score: 1

    I recently saw a BenQ drive advertised for the first time. I can't recall the exact price, but it was so far below the average that it made me suspicious and dismiss it; now I wish that I hadn't.