Slashdot Mirror
Time to Try a Linux Desktop?
bigbadwlf writes "EWeek has an opinion column, posted yesterday titled, Isn't Now the Time to Try a Linux Desktop? Quote: 'The crackers currently have the whip hand over Windows, and Microsoft's assertion that Internet Explorer is now part of the operating system shows its flawed reasoning. Worried sick about the latest rash of Internet Explorer security problems? I have the perfect solution for you, one that's even better than switching to Mozilla, Firefox or Opera. Switch operating systems: Go to Linux.'"
How about trying a FreeBSD desktop instead of Linux?
Security Center Editor Larry Seltzer takes a different view of the bug in Mozilla on Windows. Click here to read more.
I'm clicking but I'm not getting any reading. I assume this is the same for everyone else. For anyone who wants to read the article that wasn't linked properly, check here:
Larry Seltzer on Mozilla Flaw
She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
I've run Linux off and on (more off than on, really) for the last 5 or 6 years. Started with Redhat either 4 or 5 point something or other. Only reason I quit was for games, I think.
Well, recently, I got the bright idea to try XP and long story short Windows won't even let itself install on my hard drive anymore. So I took it as a sign and switched to Linux again.
I recently received in the mail 4 distros, Knoppix 3.4, Suse 9.1 personal, Mandrake 10, and Slackware 10. I had used Suse 8.2 and kind of liked it, hoped they'd fixed the bugs, and I guessed it would have the best installer of the three as my machine was being quirky.
Well, I was right. It installed fine, everything worked. It installed a rather limited package selection, for example I cant get xchat installed because it depends on gtk2 which I installed but for some reason it's being a bitch and there is no xchat on the cd, but I digress.
Other than the limited package selection (however I did cheap out and get the download version on a burned cd, so I guess I got what I paid for) it's excellent. Other Linux distros have been crashy when I tried to do anything cpu intensive, but Suse has yet to crash on me under all the stress I cared to put it under. I have to say they did fix most of the bugs that put me off. And if I do grow tired of it, well, I have two other distros and an EXCELLENT live distro sitting in my desk just begging to see the light of day.
So, yes, now IS the time to try a Linux desktop.
Emory: Uh..we're still..beta testing that.
Oglethorpe: What you're testing is me and my patience!
Wrong. You're another victum of slashdot sensationalism. The original story had the wrong bugzilla ID and had nothing to do with the security issue. The correct one is much more current and was handled in a timely manner.
I recently decided to give Mandrake 10.0 a shot, and I am pleansantly suprised! Except for a few minor glitches that were easy to iron out it installed perfectly on the first try! I would say it's equally as easy as a Windows install.
Also, after setting up the http mirrors I found that software installation was incredibly simple. I was able to install everything I needed in just a few mouse clicks. This included everything from Apache/PHP/mySQL to silly stuff like Gaim.
This is the first Linux install I've ever had where I didn't have to edit at least a couple text files to get it to run properly. I would reccomend it as a great "Linux Desktop" for the Average Joe user.
he problem is, that for your actual "average user", they will say, "where is my MS Office"
The article points out CrossOver Office handles that one.
and "where is my internet explorer" and I need my Norton Anti-Virus.
The reason for switching was to get away from IE and viruses - if they were actually switching for that reason, why on earth would they then complain about the lack of it?
An acquainance of mine can't get over the fact that his win xp box doesn't have a floppy disk drive. What would he do if I took his start menu away?
Indeed. So which distribution is it that you're planning to give him that uses blackbox or windowmaker as the default desktop environment? Is there a reason you're thinking of giving him a more hard core hacker oriented distro instead of, saw Linspire or Xandros or Mandrake or SuSE or Fedora or any of the other multitudes of distros that use KDE or GNOME as their default DE?
Jedidiah.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
Yep, we're getting there...
And once we get there, the same population that can't run windows update will still not be secure, because the latest (OpenSSH/Samba/Cups/X/KDE/Gnome/) security hole will become the new worm target, and then they're even more screwed (linux rootkits are much, much more effective than windows rootkits, as is propagation, etc).
The solution to the current problem is to switch browsers, not operating systems.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
You're mixing two bugzilla reports. One regards the general idea (theoretically vulnerable) of passing unknown protocols to the OS for handling. This still hasn't been "fixed" (i.e. the behavior has not changed in general). The other regards the shell:// vulnerability in MS Windows, which was blacklisted within two days of being reported.
It is also worth nothing that the shell:// protocol problem is a problem with its *handler* which is provided by the OS (which is why it only afflicted MS Windows versions of Mozilla) rather than with anything in Mozilla. The "fix" actually just turns off the shell:// protocol.
Take a look at SuSE sometime, it's now available as a live-cd, .iso for the personal edition, and FTP install for professional. I haven't upgraded to 9.1 yet but I've been using 9.0 pro since around march and it's just incredible. Even auto configured my tv tuner card properly. YaST ties all the myriad plaintext system configuration files into one place with a nice gui. Only problems I've see is that there are still a few issues to be worked out with clearly explaining what all the options do, and when you first install it, the default filesystem is Reiser, which I've heard some people are still a bit leery of.
On the other hand, on my Linux machine, it was just a matter of typing:
.run package. I type ""sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-6106-pkg1.run". I am presented with an error, "X server must not be running before installation". Now I must figure out how to stop X. Logging out and attemping to login using the "failsafe" mode (console only) fails to fix the problem (X is still running) so I login as my user account again and fire up a browser and point it to google. After sorting through several results I find my answer type "init 3" in a terminal window. Boy was that intuitive. After typing out the long command to install the graphics driver, all goes smoothly and I reboot.
apt-get install openoffice.org
Which apt repository did you use? Any distro I've used that had a mechanism like apt (yum, etc.), I had to manually select and enter the server names in a config file before I got anything to work at all. On top of that, editing a config file almost always required me to be root and to select what program I wanted to edit the file with (double clicking the file opened it in konqueror, read-only).
How about another example, installing a video card driver.
On windows, I go to nvidias site and find and download an executable. I download the executable and run it (in windows). Drivers are installed.
Now on linux. I go the nvidia site and find the graphics driver it is a
I get lazy when it comes to doing things computers should be doing.
If you took the time to install and customize a linux system, this obviously isn't true.
Mandrake is definately a distro I have confidence in recommending to others. It's got great hardware support, the URPMI package system is very simple and easy to use, and right now the 10.0 Official Discovery Edition comes with a LiveCD (MandrakeMove), as well as a complete desktop install with finishing touches such as Real Player® and Flash® Player browser plugins, and graphics drivers from the first boot.
With all this your can easily help migrate your friends by first using OSS on Windows, and then use the LiveCD to let them test out how it feels to have the whole lot working together on their machine before installing anything, all with a consistent feel.
Actually OO.org does have a VBA equivalent. Unfortunately, it's not exactly compatible with VBA, though (but then again, if it was the MS lawyers would love it) and the editor isn't quite as nice as the one in Office.
"They'll want actual reasons to switch."
Did you even read the Slashdot story to which this thread is related? The reason to switch is that IE is integrated into Microsoft's OS and Microsoft is incapable of securing their OS because of it! Even if you run a diffrent browser on a Microsoft OS, IE is integrated so that parts of it that may be subject to attack are being used by other parts of the OS. This forces you to apply patch after patch after patch to keep half a step ahead of the bad guys.
Seems like an "actual reason" to me!
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Dreamweaver
Works under crossover office. Also see NVU, Bluefish, and Quanta for great native GUI HTML composers that run natively.
Warcraft
Frecraft or under TransGaming.
Neverwinter
Runs natively
EQ
Runs under Trans Gaming
I need your help in switching to a Linux desktop.
At home, no brainer, and not really much of an impact because we are running Firefox only...
At work, however, I need to be able to terminal service into Windows Servers, interact with the filesystems on Window Servers directly, and do development and debugging of MS SQL Server apps via a Query Analyzer like product.
Any recomendations?
The article recommended Xandros, but I am cheap. Any other good distros for the desktop?
rdesktop looks like the right answer for terminal services.
What about a Query Analyzer like tool? Anyone out there doing what I want to do?
TIA
I have SuSE 9.1 Professional. I tried configuring a VPN connection using PPTP to my workplace which uses a Firebox 4500 (which uses an embedded version of Linux). I used the instructions with the client for my specific distribution (pptpclient.sourceforge.net) and got nowhere. The connections were made but data would not traverse the tunnel, despite multiple routing entries, etc. Under Windows XP I create a new entry under VPN networking and bam, I'm connected.
I like to modify my menus. I'm particular about how programs are labeled and categorized. Under Windows this is a no brainer - you can edit the menus in place, or right click and choose explore and modify from there. Under KDE (and Gnome) the menu editor stinks. It loses track of single items (not categories) not even showing them. I ended up hand editing my menu items (thankfully freedesktop.org has a description of what the text files should contain!) in order to get them to show up properly.
Is this the idea of a desktop operating system? No. As bas as it is, people want a graphical operating system and they want it tied closely to the underlying file systems and hardware. Linux may detect new hardware but does that detection extend into the graphical operating system?
Don't even get me started on playing video files under X and the intellectual property issues involved. I know and understand that the Linux community can't do anything to fix this -- it is the codecs and codec owners involved -- but it is a stumbling block to adoption.
Finally - there is the issue of no program ever getting to final status. This one has been picked up and banged on by a lot of people in the past few months but it is the truth. It is part of open source and open standards, and most programmers want to itch their own itch. If I were going to set out to create a volume control program I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to find someone else's past code - complete with their bugs and bad architecture - to start with. Yet I find myself with over 5 volume control utilities on my newly installed SuSE 9.1 system. That's kind of silly!
A unification of an operating system is *not* bad. Having someone direct the operating system and its integration with other software is and can be a good thing. Most distributions try to mold this software into one look and feel, but if they go to far (BlueCurve) a good percentage of the community goes up in arms.
Linux has the hardware support. Linux has the software support. Linux does not have the integration of the software with the software, nor the software with the hardware, to compete against Windows as a desktop operating system at this time IMHO.
My reality check bounced.
One advantage I see to installing Linux on computers of family members, though, is the ease of administration/patch etc. As long as the computer is on a constant-on internet link (and who doesn't in the day of broadband), and as long as SSHD didn't break, I can always ssh in, su to root, fix whatever broke in whoever's directory, run whatever update I need, without having to leave my house/dorm, drive over and pop in a CD-ROM. Think about it, with the prevalence of remote system administering, why not take the burden off of your parents/siblings? For all my mother cared, KDE is just like Windows (okay, the four virtual desktop thing scared her the first time, but she got over it quick enough).
Engineers also speak PDE, only in a different dialect.
CAD link 1
CAD link 2
PCB link 1
PCB link 2
PCB link 3
I couldn't find any COGO links. But then, I searched for COGO in general, and the only suites that came up were DOS and Unix. I can't comment on the quality of the Linux software, as I don't do this stuff. But I wasn't under the impression that Windows was the premier CAD environment (all the CAD and Database guys at work have big Unix workstations).
I've come for the woman, and your head.
konqueror is not integrated into the desktop in the way Internet Explorer is integrated into the Windows OS. It makes use of the KDE infrastructure, but even if you use KDE, you can easily deinstall konqueror.
E.g. in Debian I type "apt-get remove konqueror" and I won't see konqueror ever again. I can still use all of KDE and enjoy the web with mozilla, opera, whatever. [I prefer konqueror to opera and mozilla-firefox, though. ATM I prefer mozilla-thunderbird to kmail due to easier IMAP spam filtering]
There are no similarities to the IE/Windows chimera, where upgrading the OS requires the browser and where there is no clear separation between apps and OS infrastructure and data.
Moritz
For people that consider computers a hobby, the CLI provides a powerful tool to explore the inner workings of the machine. What you have to realize, though, is that for most people it has become an appliance. Like you said, it is no different than a toaster or a fridge for these people. Tell me, do you know how to repair your fridge if something goes wrong. I would guess that you would call someone to fix it for you. Now if cooling systems were your hobby, you might know the internal workings of the system and fix it yourself.
Back in the days of DOS (and much earlier) computers were only used in a very limited capacity by most people. When I was nine (I'm 26 now) very few people actually knew how to use a computer (i chose this date becuase it is when I actually got my own computer). Very few people actually bothered using a computer. It was used to a limited extent in offices for word processing, and some spreadsheet applications. However, it was far from ubiquotous as it is today. Therefore, back then the computer was primarily a hobbyist item. So many people who used computer were actually interested in learning the workings of the machine, since it was primarily for that purpose that they owned one.
The computer is now an appliance like any other. It has to be as easy to use, and as intuitive, as any other appiance. The simple fact of the matter is that Linux can not succeed in the appliance marketplace untill it starts to behave like an appliance. The computer is complex enough that hobbyists will staill beable to have their fun. The CLI will persist, however It should be well hidden from the user.
Number one It is out of date it has flaws.
Cygwin is slower but without the major flaws in that the microsoft version has. Problem is sections of the Services For Unix have not been updated in over 10 years fault long since fixed on linux as still holes in it. Also windows is missing the required soild firewall to protect X11 platforms from attack(Yes they get to draw all over you screen not major breach unless you class keyboard sniffing as a major breach.)
Basicly another case of microsoft not keeping there patches together.
Also Just to top things off all 3d linux programs will not work on the Services For Unix due to the X11 system being to far out of date.
And the final last flaw is that you have to complie everything it is simpler to run a linux and windows installs side by side.
It is a pitty that the line project died because it would have been a lot better fix.
Yes! Gimp too. I use them all the time in Windows and was delighted to find out that these wonderful free apps are also available on linux
But in Linux you CAN copy and paste between applications. It uses a different shortcut than windows (mouse buttons), but it is quite possible.
If you try installnig SuSE again,
enterwhen there is time to do so after the BIOS goes through its steps. If it is not bad memory (memtest is included on the SuSE install CD; the keypress is in the manual), then ACPI is the next likely culprit with a SuSE install.
Actually, I find OpenOffice to work significantly better under Windows than I find it to work under Linux(Mandrake 10) - there are well known bugs involving bidirectional language support in the Linux version of OpenOffice 1.1. Also, its easier to install OpenOffice on Windows than it is on Linux, assuming both options start off without it.
Firefox, OTOH, works great in Linux, especially for installation.