Slashdot Mirror
Japanese Schoolchildren to be Tagged with RFID
oostevo writes "CNET has reported that Japanese schoolchildren in the city of Osaka will be tagged with RFID tags. Apparently this is in addition to the trial program in Tabe that The Register reported earlier, where parents can track their children on their way to school."
How else will they know if their schoolchildren are being attacked by this month's Tentacle Monster?
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
The tags will be read by readers installed in school gates and other key locations to track the kids' movements.
/tinfoil_hat_on
/tinfoil_hat_stays_on
In 2 years replace the word 'kids' with 'employees'.
In 5 years replace the word 'employers' with 'shoppers'.
in 9 years replace the word 'shoppers' with...
They love electronics. They'll probably be signing up for Hello Kitty themed RFID tags voluntarily.
I can't think of any other culture that would want to do something like this. I love Japan. Everything about it seems to be 20 years in the future. If you ever say anything weird or unbelievable, add "in Japan" at the end, and it sounds more realistic.
Try it out.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
I'd tell 'em they have it when they're old enough to understand. And if they don't like, when they're old enough they can take it out themselves.
The only problem with the way they are implementing it (and I don't see any workaround short of implanting the kids skin with RFID devices) is that since the tracking devices are tied to their book bags, if a pedo or other person wants the kid, they just have to drop or incapacitate the book bag chip .. thus making the tracking device useless.
,. than it might be useful.
Now if parents want to know if their kid is down at the pachinko parlour or some such
What happens when someone else besides the school is able to access them? I can view my whole school district's security cams and people think that is a privacy issue.
What is going to happen when someone is able to track these kids and it isn't the school?
Hmmm. Who wants to start placing bets on which child will emerge as the lone survivor of class 9-B?
Longhorn is released, nearly bug-free, and crushes Linux once and for all... in Japan!
Slashdot in 5 Paragraphs
.. if it saves one kid, then it's worth it...
This argument is such a fallacy. Why don't we encase our children in 'Nerf'? After all, then they would just bounce off of cars when they run out in the street.
If it saved one child, it's worth it right?
I think the police department in your town should require citizens to have RFID implants, and their movements/location should be recorded at all times. If anyone is ever murdered/raped/abducted, or if a robbery is ever reported, someone can check the recording and use the unique ID to tell almost instintaniously who the criminal is. There wouldn't even be a need to have a live watch over the feeds.
You wouldn't mind that, would you?
--
http://nemilar.net - Not your grandmother's soup kitchen
Come with us now as we study the migratory patterns of the Japanese School Child.
[Helicoptor flys over a school yard full of children, one is separated out from the herd and tranqualized with a dart, scientist staples an RFID tag in his ear...]
That would be so cool.
Game... blouses.
I think many people tend to be cautious of the implication, and the precident that it sets. These kids will be growing up accustomed to wearing tracking collars, and may well not see a problem with it if a good enough case is pressed for adults to carry such tags 'in the name of public safety'. Besides, just having such tags will not serve as a solid secured method of finding abducted children. First thing an abductor would do, knowing that these tags are out there, is to strip the kid, and throw away every piece of clothing or gear they had. Now, you have the same problem (abducted kid) and you still don't know where they're at.
Human society has a nasty tendancy to slip from what may be a clear defined goal (Keep kids safe by tracking them) towards something that's similar where the logic matches fairly close (Keep people safe by tracking them). However, at the same time, you run a higher risk of abuse of such information. While this is something of a straw man argument, consider what the Holocaust would've been like if the leaders of the country could find every member of the Jewish community, hiding or not, because they were wearing tags?
Personally, I'd almost rather teach my children self defense and how to handle unknowns in the world, than to rely on a removable tracking tag for their "safety". They'll be better off for knowing that.
Why don't we encase our children in 'Nerf'? After all, then they would just bounce off of cars when they run out in the street.
If it saved one child, it's worth it right?
That would be worth it for the entertainment value alone.
but then you couldn't put your kids in the microwave anymore.
Why don't we encase our children in 'Nerf'? After all, then they would just bounce off of cars when they run out in the street.
...Lord knows that's what I'd do...
Because that would ENCOURAGE kids to run out into the street so they could be hit by cars.
The whole recurring theme about man and machine? Ghost in the Shell? Tetsuo in Akira merging with all the machinery around him? How many other examples can you name? I've always wondered why that's such a common idea in anime. I have my answer now.
It's because the Japanese think it's a good idea, that's why.
You know, Slashdot is a great place to be a geek. Look at the new technologies coming out, marvel at their application...but sometimes you just gotta say enough is enough.
And I have to draw the line right before RFID tagging my children.
It's impressively geeky, but c'mon guys - sometimes "because you can" isn't the right answer!
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Seriously, I'm not joking at all. If you've been carrying an RFID tag as long as you can remember, requiring it by law won't seem like a big deal at all. Laws that take away freedoms are preceded by education campaigns to convince the public they want to give the freedom up.
I know a lot of people here think this can fight abduction. But how? Would a kidnapper really care whether or not the kid has a tag? If the sensors were placed EVERYWHERE, maybe they could track a missing child, but the abductor would certainly not stick around school with a tagged (or any) kid. I could see this as a potential means to fight truency, but not abduction.
Yes, kids are under adult attention a lot of the time. Still, I cannot dismiss this as just a "more efficient method" as you do. Is torture just a more efficient method of interrogation? Efficiency is not a justifying dictum, just a bonus.
That's your choice. Me, I do care. I'm not a totally paranoid tinfoil-hatter, but I have purposely avoided owning a cellphone and intend to continue doing so until it becomes an absolute necessity (if it does). And even then, I doubt I'll keep it with me all the time, much less on. I don't want to be reachable or trackable 24/7, that's not human nature, or at least not my nature.
This seems like a real waste of resources, especially in Japan, unless there's some kind of kidnapping wave there that I haven't heard about. And it encourages parents to complacently trust technology, rather than communicate directly with their children.
As for the slippery slope, remember that children have fewer rights than adults. To kids it looks like their rights are just suppressed, because they don't have the power to take it back. But it's actually because they are still learning to be people, when subordination to experience is necessary, and haven't actually developed the inalienable rights inherent in adults. Otherwise kids would have all emancipated themselves already, at latest in the 1960s when they all got money, cars, and TV role models.
It will be important to remember these distinctions when the police states attempt to raise the age of application of these tracking devices, saying that kids don't mind, why shouldn't adults, whose lives are risker. Adults who are monitored become even more neurotic, sources of risk. Monitoring us will make us less safe, as society becomes unhinged from the transferred social pressure. At least watching the increase in deviance, from unfairly implanted kids who are already developed into adults, will give us some data warning us away from general application of the technique.
--
make install -not war
I think you'd find that the most likely second target for a scheme like this would be (convicted) criminals, not employees.
(IIRC Most crimes are committed by repeat offenders)
First our pets and cattle, then our children, then criminals, then the rest of us.
A while ago, after reading a newspaper article about some hideous unsolved crime, I mentioned to a friend that we should start putting radiotags on criminals. Man, he hit the roof! Wow. He used a variety of terms to describe this idea, the one that I remember most was 'Nazi'.
Radio tagging people has its merits and can certainly make the world a 'Better Place'(tm), but it is simply too prone to abuse/misuse.
Who would you trust to manage and control the monitoring system? Your government? The United Nations? Your local police department? Your favourite church/religion/cult/sect?
If this could prevent child-napping, yes I'd put one on my kids.
The odds of being kidnapped (in general, of course if your area has higher stats, then my arguments change) are so low that this sort of thing doesn't do a lot of good. The odds are very high, however, of RFID tags being used for undesirable purposes (unless RFID is well-regulated with regards to privacy, which seems unlikely at this point).
We have:
1. A dubious benefit.
2. A certain detriment.
In complete seriousness, if my parents had tagged me in this way, I'd be very upset with them. I could forgive ignorance on their part (them being fed the line that this is a good thing, and that there are no drawbacks). I could *not* forgive them if they did this with full knowledge (not that I'd disown them or something, just that there would always be this one issue that, regardless of how good our relationship is, I could not forgive).
Now, in Japan the culture is quite different. This doesn't strike me as being too terribly unacceptable there.
One of the (many) unintended consequences of this will be that parents and authorities will have a higher perceived confidence level but a lower real confidence level.
Current situation: Parent sends child to school. Did they get there? Probably, based on past behavior and other factors, but not necessarily definitely. Therefore, the parents continue to assert controls and recieve feedback (aka nagging and snooping) over time to increase the liklihood of the child going to school and behaving safely.
Proposed situation: Parent sends child to school. Did they get there? Definitely, based on the feedback from the sensors at the school. Parents don't need to check and reinforce behavior (spy and nag), because they can be sure that their little darling is safe at school. Except that only the tag is at school, in their little darling's friend's bag. Little darling is skipping school and is currenly at a bukkake shoot earning some extra coin.
I'll stick with the nagging and snooping.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
As an English teacher at a Japanese elementary school, I'd like to explain a few things about how the commuting works for students here.
. pl5 ?ek20040520ag.htm
Almost no kids in Japanese public schools are driven to school by their parents. It is not against the rules, but is generally discouraged. Public schools generally do not have buses, though some students will take a bus if their parents can afford it and they live far from school. Middle and high school students might bike or take a train, but those are often off-limits for elementary students, who must either walk or come by bus (Kids generally go to the local elementary/middle school, but there are exams for high school, which might require a long trip every day).
In my small rural town (pop. 7000), and in many other places, elementary and middle school students who are walking/biking must follow certain routes to and from school. Teachers are posted at locations along the route to check up on the students. But, they can't be everywhere. The middle school in my town has recently had problems with middle-aged men approaching female students. Students are out in the open for a much longer period of time than in the US and are thus bigger targets.
That said, I don't want to see my students given RFID tags. However, I wouldn't be surprised if it became very popular here. Elementary and middle school students already have tags with their full name and the school's name on it which must be worn at all times. Also, nearly all middle and high schools have uniforms. With all this required attire, it's hard for students to go someplace after school that they're not supposed to be, and this is part of the point. People will even sometimes complain to a school if they see its students doing something they don't approve of. There is already a lot of monitoring in place here, and I don't see this as being a big shift.
Related article -
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle
PS - It's not that important, but the CNET article is poorly written and unclear. Osaka city and Wakayama prefecture are completely seperate places, but someone who knows very little about Japan might think that Osaka city is the small "town" in Wakayama where the RFID tags are being tested. Anyone have a better article?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Japanese schoolkids have enough pressure to deal with as it is. Tagging them like animals isn't going to do them good. Just how high a youth suicide rate do they want?
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
The military.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Media attention to the contrary, kidnapping isn't that common, and when it does occur it's usually done by a parent or relative. The introduction of Amber Alert programs has greatly increased media coverage of kidnappings; an unfortunate side effect of this is a mistaken perception that kidnappings are common and increasing occurrances.
Banning school athletics programs would save far more children's lives. So would banning automobiles, eliminating all foods that include potential allergens, and placing all children in gated institutions until 18, just to think of a few examples.
Maybe things are different where you live, but everywhere I've been, children who are prevented from learning how to handle risk tend towards one of two extremes. Either they react by doing incredibly stupid things (unprotected sex, reckless driving, etc.) and tend to get hurt, or they have no idea how to handle adult risks and responsibilities once they grow up and are no longer safely ensconced in bubble wrap.
I do realize that when people have children, the genetic imperative hijacks behaviour to varying degree. Maybe this made sense back when society was simpler, risks more easily understood and addressed, and the capacity for smothering and control limited. That does not make it a rational or effective strategy for raising children to be functional adults in today's society.
Patrick Henry did not learn the courage to utter "give me liberty or give me death" by being raised by parents whose mantras were "think of the children" and "if it saves just one child...".
Hey, who better to do drugs than kids? What are you gonna fuck up at age 16 that you can't bounce back from - what, you going to get a F?
I can't do drugs any more - At my age I have shit to do. I can't go on a 2 day acid binge cos I have to move my car on street sweeping day. Drugs are for kids.
Paraphrased from a piece by the guy in my sig