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Gentoo for Mac OS X Released
joeljkp writes "According to today's Gentoo Weekly News, Gentoo has released a new project: Gentoo MacOS (sic). This new distribution adds Portage, Gentoo's package manager, to Mac OS X, among other things."
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How long until I can get Gentoo for my Xbox?
Gentoo News
/20040719_macos_in staller.png
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"Apple, we have a problem" - Gentoo MacOS X Released
Figure 1.1: Derived from Apple's 'Redmond, we have a problem' campaign:
The Gentoo MacOS announcement
http://www.gentoo.org/images/gwn/200 40719_macos_pr oblem.png
Almost exactly one year after the idea of porting Portage to MacOS X came
up - and the joint Metapkg initiative[1] between Fink, Darwinports and
Gentoo took off - a 20-head-strong developer team around Pieter van den
Abeele[2] (strategic lead) and Daniel Ostrow[3] (operational) is now ready
to release an extraordinary beast into the wild: Gentoo MacOS. They
deliver on a promise no other Linux distribution has been daring enough to
make yet: Portage on MacOS is now fully operational, seamlessly integrated
as a package manager in a non-Linux operating system. It initially serves
the main purpose of an SDK for inclusion of new packages, testing and
patching. Granted, KDE isn't ported yet, but make no mistake: Gentoo MacOS
is ready for consumption by Macintosh users who want, say, scientific DTP
via TeX, something they will now be able to simply emerge in OS X just
like they'd do in Gentoo Linux."Right now it's a tool to install lots of
commonly requested applications on OS X", explains Pieter van den Abeele.
"But in a few months, we'll have a port system that builds Darwin from
scratch, provides a standardised lookup and installation routine for
Dashboard widgets[4], enhancements and tools like the Desktop Manager[5]
and many, many more popular OS X applications." Downloading the Gentoo
MacOS Installer provides users with a patched portage, its tree, and the
Python modules. It sets environment variables and demands a bootstrapping
shell script to be run before the first emerge that detects the operating
system (Panther or Tiger), chooses the relevant profiles and injects every
application it finds already installed in MacOS X.
1. http://www.metapkg.org
2. pvdabeel gentoo.org
3. dostrow gentoo.org
4. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html
5. http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/
Figure 1.2: Taming the Tiger with a double-click: The Gentoo MacOS
Installer
http://www.gentoo.org/images/gwn
Since Gentoo's own GCC ebuild for MacOS X isn't ready yet, compiling is
currently done using the Xcode development tools[6] which include GCC 3.3
provided by Apple. "People already on Tiger can experiment with GCC 3.5",
adds Pieter. Tiger, the new release of MacOS X, is due in 2005 with its
brandnew database filesystem Spotlight[7], modernised video services and
many other features. The Gentoo MacOS developers are busy polishing the
knobs (a Cocoa user interface is part of the plan), getting iSync[8]
integration to work (emerge an application on one machine, automatically
replicate onto all other Macs in a LAN), right down to making Catalyst
produce Darwin LiveCDs... "But first the cool stuff, then Darwin",
chuckles strategic lead Pieter. Even though his team is already larger
than the entire Gentoo Linux PPC developer group, they still train new
devs almost daily, and whoever wants to help with the project is very
welcome to get in touch. The public Wiki[9] holds installation
instructions and serves as a reporting tool for packages outside of
Portage that already compile without bombing out. The Gentoo MacOS
Installer can be downloaded from here[10].
6. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/xcode.html
7. http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlighttech.ht ml
8. http://www.apple.com/isync/
9. http://gentoo-wiki.com/Gentoo_MacOS
10. http://www.metadistribution.org/macos/
Full size (1024x768) screenshots of the Gentoo MacOS installation
procedure:
* Installer starts[11]
* Detection of OS version and installed software[12]
* Still busy injecting detected
3 posts and it's already slashdotted. nice.
there's no place like ~
how exactly is this a problem for Apple?
What does this do that fink doesn't already (for the last few years) do?
Gentoo is one of the best distros out there. I use it on x86 and it was easy to install and set up. I had more trouble on mandrake than on gentoo. The best thing it has going for it is portage. This system of automatically downloading and compiling software is only appriciated when you've gone through RPM hell or dependency hell when compiling from scratch. I was using mandrake previously, and this is definately faster. I encourage everyone who uses a distro like mandrake, fedora, or SuSE to look into gentoo.
I've only been using linux for a few months and gentoo for a week or so but I already see how well produced it is. I used to get annoyed at gentoo zealots, but I see what they were talking about.
Oh, and the compiling software isn't that bad. I've spent more time searching for packages and dependecies than typing "emerge k3b". Don't believe all the hype of course, but don't believe the FUD either. Gentoo is where it's at!
Now to make this a little more on-topic, I'm happy that gentoo is trying to make more headway into apple hardware. I think that this will only encourage apple to help and contribute to the OSS community even more. MacOS is probably the most refined modern operating system, but giving it a little more competition can't hurt.
um, isn't that 'Gentoo MacOS' a tad misleading? It's like calling x86 Linux 'Linux Windows'
I read that blurb, and I still don't know what the significance of this release is.
"Right now, you can use it to install TeX! Someday, you might be able to install some other stuff!"
I mean, I suppose this is kool and the gang, but what is the problem that is being solved here? Maybe I'm just not clear on the concept.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
This means (sorta, as in 'soon') that a Mac-user will be able to rebuild their own OSX box, using the Gentoo scripts, and still be able to maintain compatability with all OSX apps.
In other words, a 'better build system: a public one' has been unleashed on a commercial operating system, so that - separate from the company itself - alternative builds of the OS can be done, publically.
Why is this good? Because with Gentoo you can take personal risks that Apple can't. Gentoo allows you to build a system "Just for You", whereas Apple have to compile/link things "For Everyone".
Expect to see highly-tuned Gentoo boxes running GentooMacOS in the future, smokin' 'Factory OS' setups. I'll be digging into this a bit further, next point release sort of thing, and if I get the same results out of applying Gentoo to my OSX machine as I have with my Linux boxes, I'm excited. I may man I can put off a hardware upgrade or two and just 'Take Things To The Next Level' on my aging Powerbook...
Oh, and in case you think Apple should be 'worried about' this, it seems to me that they already get the point. With all the OS releases they've been doing lately, and the upgrades/improvements in the one area 'open source' is lacking: usability, and it seems to me that they're positioned well to be 'competing with the Open Source Base'
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
The Metapkg Alliance was formed explicitly to improve cooperation between Fink, Gentoo, and DarwinPorts. Besides, have you actually tried Gentoo MacOS yet? Perhaps it offers (or will eventually offer) a significantly large value proposition over the other port distributors. Only time will tell.
Will it handle the X11 dependency gracefully? I spent many, many hours trying to get Fink either to recognize that I had XFree86 installed as a binary or to compile it from source without getting errors all over the place. I'm not a newbie to package managers like apt and ports, but despite this I eventually ended up giving up trying to install X11 apps with Fink because I just didn't have the time to spend trying to get it to work properly. As a result, I am now using Quicken instead of GNUCash.
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
All idiotic zealtory of Gentoo with all the, well, mindless zealotry of Mac! A winning combination!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
...all your base are belongs to gentoo I can not say enough good things about the direction this Distro is going. Future of Linux, or the future of all OS's?
Portage seems to have several advantages over the other package management tools, including the following summary from the Portage manual:
Ask these guys.
I don't think the parent poster "forgot" that the Mac OS X UI source isn't available for custom compiles. That's not what Gentoo MacOS is about -- it's about being able to easily install and update popular *nix software on Mac OS X.
Who would want a Mac without Quartz, Spotlight, etc? I certainly wouldn't give up these features. But some people might want to use alternate desktop managers on Apple hardware. Just because you're not interested in doing so doesn't mean there is no reason for others to want to.
Besides, you don't necessarily have to forgo the Finder and Exposé to use Gentoo MacOS. It's a package manager, and as such can install a bunch of *nix tools that work alongside Mac OS X without replacing it.
MacOSX != Darwin.
You may be able to get Darwin's source, but good luck getting the rest of MacOSX source. This shouldn't be called Gentoo MacOS its should be called Gentoo Darwin.
At least the MacOS zealots have something to be zealotishious about, Gentoo zealots only have zealotness to be zealotishius about. Obviously.
See ya in 6 months.
and now Tom with the weather...
Shallax has been kicked off gentoo because he refused to work as part of a team or commit the xbox patches back to gentoo. At this point in time gentoox has nothing to do with gentoo, and he is violating the "gentoo" trademark by using the name.
One of the most awesomeliest things about Fink is that it installs everything in root /sw, no exceptions (i.e. /sw/bin, /sw/usr/lib, etc). That means you don't have to worry about contaminating the Apple-controlled parts of the OS, and uninstalling all customizations is just a matter of trashing /sw. I would never even think of installing anything in /usr or /usr/local (because it "belongs" to Apple).
Does Gentoo MacOS do the same thing? If not, why not????
..." I DON'T want linux software..."
Is someone twisting your arm to install OSS stuff?
And Gentoo is the solution. OSX is shipped with a very stripped-down UNIX program suite. Fink addresses the problem nicely, and Gentoo looks like it's aiming at the same problem. I don't think the author meant that Gentoo on OSX *is* the problem.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
The real question is, when is portage going to move over to a real opreating system? ...ya know. Like Windows.
Aqua : OS X :: Gnome : Linux
OS X is Darwin, but OS X also includes additional software. As in all Unixes, the GUI in OS X is not an integral part of the operating system. There are even OS X users who boot to a console, and then run X if they want a GUI.
I WAN'T MacOS software, it's user friendliness, simplicity, consistency and excelent graphical core with all that eye candy on my x86 machine. Without a loss of speed. Clear enough?
And I WANT a Ferrari Testarossa that gets 40 miles to the gallon. AND I want laser beams on the hood! Clear enough?
Nice try, but no. The point of Gentoo MacOS is to use Apple's well-designed, proprietary OS with popular, open-source applications. If you want, go get Gentoo for Macintosh hardware / PPC, but you'll lose the benefits of Mac OS X. Not everything has to be open-sourced; frankly, there would be no was OS X could have reached the state it is in now had it been developed open source. There wouldn't have been enough incentive for Apple's talented developers, and management wouldn't have been motivated to include it with Apple computers.
Portaris, Portage on Solaris
Just something I've toyed around with. The major stumbling block is that the developers need to add the ability for portage to recognize other oses. Mine isn't really a complete project, more of a log of stuff I've done. Others have followed and managed to get things like KDE to fully install in solaris using portage.
Hi, I'm Joe Q Developer. I only write small freeware apps, so Microsoft won't even talk to me. So please tell me where I can legally download the source to Windows XP?
Oh, I can't?
Apple may not release the source to its higher level frameworks, but everything you need for low-level hooks is right there in Darwin. Hell, that's most of the OS.
You are free to develop console apps or develop OS X apps that run on X-Windows.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
In Soviet Redmond, the 11 goes to you?
Guess you were right. About the modding part that is...
in this case you arent putting linux on the mac. it is mearly adopting gentoo's portage system to the mac. So you are still running OS X, you just have the kewlness of portage.
personally i am canning fink as soon as i can get this damn dmg downloaded
I must admit interest in MS's claim that they're going to create a true database filesystem
/., but it is wrong. WinFS is not a (database) filesystem, and this is why the FS in WinFS does not stand for FileSystem but FutureStorage (there must have been a contest to find such a stupid name). WinFS is a database over NTFS that remains the filesystem. It just adds meta-data to files, but in a separate database.
I read this occasionally on
I went to a mini-conference by a ms evangelist, and he repeated it many times.
I'd be more interested in what Reiser4 does with metadata, it seems much more interesting than a mere additionnal layer.
theefer
...there would be no was OS X could have reached the state it is in now had it been developed open source. There wouldn't have been enough incentive for Apple's talented developers, and management wouldn't have been motivated to include it with Apple computers.
Except, of course, that it would drive sales of Macs, exactly as it has done. Apple wouldn't sell half the units if it weren't for OS X. And if you're worried someone else will take the source and port it to x86, that's irrelevant. The important functionality has been mostly duplicated WITHOUT having the source code; Expose, the Aqua look, the swooshy dock, brushed metal, the MenuBar... all are available elsewhere WITHOUT it being open sourced. So keeping it closed didn't help them keep a monopoly on their ideas, because once somebody sees a good idea, everyone else uses it. And that's okay. It's what we've always done, at least back to the time someone started copying Henry Ford's assembly line idea so they could compete effectively, thus creating the auto industry that gives us cheap, reliable automobiles. Society gets better by constantly taking other people's ideas ("standing on the shoulders of giants"), improving on them and reselling them. And then the other guy is forced to innovate again to stay ahead. That's capitalism. Capitalism doesn't work without competition to drive quality up and prices down. We argue against it when our favorite company is getting copied, but they copy people as well, regardless of what the zealots say. Konfabulator, Watson, Xerox Parc's GUI ideas, BSD guts, the iMac idea which an artist apparently submitted to Apple as an idea. No company is an island unto itself; everybody is affected by the innovations of others. And opening the source wouldn't help x86 or Linux or whatever duplicate the "whole widget" effect which is the main selling point of the MacOS, because the relevant code would only apply to the exact Mac hardware it was written for -- which means you gotta buy a Mac to get the "whole widget" effect, or make your own hardware and software yourself.
In short, it wouldn't hurt Apple a bit. Sure, somebody might port OS X and run it on their Toshiba, but the user wouldn't be buying a Mac anyway; they've already got a Toshiba. And the "whole widget" smoothness wouldn't be there, so it'd be more like running a crappy version of linux than the real OS X on the real hardware. They'd get bored and go back to Windows, or spring for a real Mac if they liked it enough. And Apple might sell a few more copies of iLife.
Not that I think Apple should waste their time porting OSX, I just know that some large firms don't allow closed-source, proprietary code on their servers due to security concerns. The Chinese government said they found an NSA backdoor in Windows; I would assume the NSA also ordered one put on the Mac.
I'm not normally an irrational zealous dickhead, but I figure "When in Rome..."
I'm not sure you understand what this is. It doesn't install Linux, or any part of it. It installs Unix apps, many of which are also included in Linux distributions. By far most of them are command-line. I need these (Perl libs, graphviz,etc.). If you don't need them, or don't know what they are, then don't use them.
Don't think of these as OS X applications. What a portage tree does, or X11 on OS X does, is give a mac box almost all the strengths of a linux box with all the strengths of a mac box. you don't lose anything; you can still use only mac programs, with nice installers and GUI's (and I, personally, prefer to whenever possible).
However, it gives you the option of having just as nice of a package management system and a huge list of open source tools that *aren't* available with a nice GUI as well. It's the best of both worlds, with no requirement of dealing with either. *That's* what's so exciting.
In 10.2 and possibly 10.1 (and maybe the first one or two releases of 10.3?) Apple did put stuff into /usr/local. They don't now. All these people shouting 'they do!' 'they don't!' might consider that they could both be right.
/usr/local was NOT a good place for fink to install, because there were definitely things to be overwritten in there.
And, since Apple did that when fink was setting up,
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.