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Which Digital Video Camera for Amateur Video?
Maznafein asks: "I'm about to leave the IT world, after just finishing a degree in audio engineering, and I'd like to start doing some A/V work on the side as I attempt to make the transition to a new career. I want to make a my first short film either in the late fall, or early spring. I want to do everything in the digital domain as I currently use Logic and Ableton Live on my power book. I have all the gear I need to use up to eight microphones and I can easily pick up some shot gun mics. I don't really know which [video camera] to go with. Like every geek I want the best resolution available other than that the only thing I know I'll need is it to be water resistant/proof, or be able to purchase a housing, for up to a 15 minute scene in the short film I am adapting. What should I go with?"
"I've always been a firm believer that to make it in any field you have to show that you want to do it. I currently write my own tracks (bangin' german techno) and engineer/mix down local artists (rock, pop and hip hop) on the side already. I just have yet to get into the nitty gritty of doing film production."
Panasonic AG-DVX100A
Not cheap, but 3 CCD and progressive scan. And there's an underwater housing available (which isn't cheap, either). And Final Cut Pro on your Powerbook can edit 24p native.
Okay, lets start the easy question: What is your budget? You can drop $100,000 on a Sony HDCAM setup, but in all odds you'll be staying in the good 'ol NTSC realm. Again it depends on how much money you have in your pocket. Visit DV.com for some camera ideas. I would try and get a 3-CCD Camera. Visit http://www.saferseas.com/ for some package ideas, also DV.com is a good site.
Progressive scan is a good feature to look for. Normal video is interlaced, meaning each frame only contains every other line. Progressive scan records a complete frame everytime. Another feature to look for is a CCD capture. One CCD per color. The image quality is generally much higher with a 3 chip capture. This said: The Canon XL-1S is certainly a nice camera, if you've got the budget... around $3500. The Sony VX-2000 is also quite good and a bit cheaper. Both have progressive scan and 3 CCD capture.
It really depends on your price range, but if you're looking for good 'entry-level' pro cameras, I've heard good things about the Panasonic AG-DVX100A, as well as the Canon GL & XL series. I actually believe Steven Soderbergh's "Full Frontal" was shot with a Canon XL1S.
The follow up the years old XL1 was finally released by Canon last week. It's probably hard to get now, but does 24P, 30i, 60i and has update CCD's (in comparison to the old, but quality XL1). If you're really planning on doing investing, it also supports the universal connector for Canon lenses. It probably runs around 5K, but supply and demand will drive it up higher for a while.
No you don't!
The higher the resolution, the less light you get per pixel for a given lens size -- this results in higher noise levels when you're in relatively low-light situations (e.g. indoors).
Why would you need higher resolution in a video camera, anyways? Sure there's HDTV, but if you're talking about regular TV resolution, there's absolutely no point. If you want to take stills, get a separate digital still camera; don't compromise your video.
"Orthodoxy is unconsciousness" - Orwell
digital camera buying guide
The other major 24fps camera is the Panasonic AG-DVX100A, but I've seen a lot of so-so reviews about it.
No matter what you buy, you'll have to buy a underwater casing for it.
Are you sure you want to own a camera? What is your budget? If you are spending significant time/expense staging scenes, and the production will not run very long, it might be wiser to rent a professional camera. If you do buy, you may get a better deal on a used Sony VX1000 or VX2000 (a favorite of documentary filmmakers) than you could on a new model.
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You can find some information about most of the currently available consumer video cameras at http://www.camcorderinfo.com/
I know of no waterproof or even water-resistant video cameras. You can get waterproof housings for any camera, ranging from Ewa-Marine's plastic-bag-with-window (which does actually work) up to regular diving housings for $2k - $5k and up. http://www.ewa-marine.de/english/
I own a VX2k myself. Gates has a nice housing for it, the VX2000M, which is $9369.00 plus tax.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home
I've been reading, reading and reading for a bit on digital camcorders. A really good site with low noise forums I ran across is http://www.camcorderinfo.com which has in-house reviews a huge number of camcorders. I appreciated that they gave as much info as possible and let you make your own decisions based on their findings.
The short answer is there isn't a perfect camcorder. I'm looking at the under $750 range and feel I've narrowed my choice to the 3 CCD Panasonic PV-GS120. Excellent color and saturation. MiniDV tapes. Reasonable zoom though it's stabilization is iffy when zoomed in -- tripod will be needed for that -- which isn't an uncommon shortcoming with the super small camcorders. Video quality is identical to its higher priced brother the GS200 but it lacks some minor upgrades that I can live without. The Canon Optura 40 in this price range is well regarded as well and is a close contender for me.
I'd like to hear some testimonials from folks. What do they like about their camcorder and what would they look for in a new one today.
I'm working through this question right now for my church. Here's some advice from a video journalist I work with on projects.
1. Nothing less than mini DV
2. Nothing less than a 3 CCD
3. Nothing less than the Canon GL-2 (or equivalent level of sophistication) and this type of chassis so you can hold and maneuver the camera properly during shooting
4. You want to have the option of inputting XLR audio to the camera from a shotgun, lapel or boom mic. This means either pony up for a cam that has these inputs or get a solid, professional grade adapter plate
5. I'd get a firewire mini DV deck so you don't have to use the cameras deck all the time
6. A GOOD tripod. These are, unfortunately, not cheap.
You can get into a decent DV cam and some gear for $3k, maybe less if you buy used. Video is so much more accessable now to the masses, it's awesome. While there is some coin to be spent to get up to speed, the quality of these 3 chip cams is amazing. If you're seriously hurting for cash, go for any mini DV camera with 3 CCD's.
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
Well, the exact specifics depend on how much cash your going to stump up, but forget resolution. Accept that your home movie won't be HDTV, get something that does DV. It's a standard resolution, well supported.
The area's where you want to put the extra cash are:
0) Second camera. It will be much more help than you can imagine. Filming a take from two angles makes syching cuts straight forward, backup for battery / reliabilty etc. If you see the use of 8 mikes, I'm sure you can accept that multiple cameras are handy too.
1) Picture signal-to-noise ratio. You can tweak it in post, but it's better if you don't have to.
2) Optical Zoom. If you've a particular project in mind, you might not need much, but in general, it's handy to have.
The only other feature that's worth looking at is connection methods (IEEE-1394 all the way, really), and if you can push footage back to tape with the camera (very useful for backups for rendered scenes).
Normally, I'd add something about microphone quality, but I get the impression that's not an issue for you.
Funny you should ask. I'm in the middle of editing a video highlighting my internship... I did everything myself. Very low-budget, using my Sony Digital-8 Camcorder that I bought about 4 years ago for ~ $600.
Anyway, I bought 3 sheets of neon green posterboard, taped them together and used it as a green screen which I sit in front of. The software (Premiere) actually does a good job of keying out the green so I have my head floating in front of a transparent alpha-channel, and so I can manipulate the background easily.
Here's the problem: The camera sees all that green. In fact, it thinks it sees too much green and tries to tint the picture toward red to compensate. As a result, I come out looking like I have a bad sunburn. Now, I think I've figured out how to correct the color in the editor, but it sure was a PITA.
I know that the professional cameras have a lot more features (at much, much higher prices), but my dinky little camcorder does almost everything I want, except there's no way to tell it what white looks like.
The other thing to make sure to get is the ability to add a wide-angle lens. Really increases your options for framing your shots.
CHeck out wwug.com and digitalvideoediting.com for all sorts of cool information.
A 3CCD camera is a must just like the ability to manually focus.
Something that will help the look of your final product considerably is color correction. Apple's Final Cut Express has decent color correction capabilities and it won't set you back too much.
While a nice camera makes things look better, it's the content that keeps people watching. Think about what you are trying to convey and shoot accordingly. Spend time to plan your shots and get to know your camera before you start shooting your movie.
Check out my movies if you want to see what can be done for under $1000.
actually, i would reccomend avsforums for this kind of question.
Speaking from someone who sunk thousands of dollars into equipment that still has yet to be used much, I'd suggest for your first foray that you consider renting or borrowing or finding the cheapest used DV camera you can find.
Don't freak about 3CCD elements and "all that jazz" because your first movie will be the exercise in which you make all your first mistakes. The degradation of substandard video equipment will be ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less than all sorts of issues you will face.
If you're really serious and have some money to rub together, check out one of the programs of the New York Film Academy. They offer 4- or 8-week intensive courses that are really good, concentrated, and destined to give you the most bang for your buck. It'll do you a whole lot more good than spending several extra dollars on top-notch equipment.
Murray Todd Williams
http://www.murraywilliams.com
P.S. My projects from the NYFA are on my website. They may seem rough around the edges, but I learned VOLUMES in making them!
Murray Todd Williams
Firstly, you're shooting a short, it sounds like your first venture, don't spend the money buying outright... If you're in or near a sizable metropolitan area you shouldn't have any trouble finding a rental house, check around, get some rates... You're going to want more than a camera anyway, you'll want lights, stands, c clamps, gobos, scrims, gels, reflectors, a decent tripod (but don't get married to it, stay fluid), gaffers tape, lenses, etc. I'd try to find a weekend rate package on a decent HD camera, offline it to DV for editing, and then online it somewhere where you can do it in native HD. This isn't cheap of course, but I suspect you can find a rate on a decent rental package for about the same as you'd pick up a mid-level DV cam retail. Again, poke around a metropolitan area, snag yourself some film students (they also tend to work on the cheap, for free, or for beer), they also would likely be familiar with the rental houses or may have some interesting equipment themselves. I don't think an outright retail purchase is the way to go in your case... though, I'd be *really* careful about the water, most rental houses won't take kindly to you dunking their camera in the bathtub for that ECU of your leading lady's assests.
Seriously, you probably have to narrow it down a bit more money wise. However as a general recommendation, I like to stick with Canon for anything under $1000 and Canon or Sony for $1000+.
Now what range you should look to spend depends on what you want to do. If this is just a film for fun, and quality isn't an issue, get a cheap Canon MiniDV cam. They have lots of them, often for under $400 if you scout around. These will not give good quality, however.
For about $800-$1000, you can get a camera that is pretty close to broadcast NTSC quality. The Canon Optura Xi is what I like. It's good enough to be low end broadcast TV.
If you are willing to drop some more, well look at getting a Canon GL2 or maybe Sony DCR-VX2100. These are basically broadcast quality, and in some ways even better than DVD quality. You won't be sorry with the picture you get out of these. Around $1800-$2200.
If you want to max out on MiniDV, hard to go wrong with a Canon XL1s or their new XL2. I haven't personally used the XL2, but it sounds even better than the XL1, which just rocks. Real pro quality stuff here that gets great pictures right out of the box. Talking in the $3000 range.
More than that? Well now you are talking real DVCam or DVPro, and in that arena I don't have much experience. Again my inital recommendation would be to stick Canon or Sony. I'm more partial to Canon becuase I like their lenses better, but I imagine you can put a Canon lens on a Sony DVPro unit.
I work in a SDI studio, and have had the oppertunity to work with many cameras and edit footage from a few different camera. I have used Gl2's XL1 and XL1s's and also the Panasonic DVX100a. The DVX100a has been the greatest camera I have ever used, 24p is amazing, and Final Cut Pro HD lets you take out the 2:3 pulldown the camera induces on the 29.97 video to make it seem 24p. It does not actually shoot 24p, the video looks and feels like it though, you can actually edit it in a regular NTSC sequence at 29.97. The DVX100a has a servo zoom but you can flip a switch and the front of the camera and use a manual zoom, for super fast zoom, and on the LCD display, there is a number correlating with the zoom position. Same with the manual focus, there is a number on the LCD display to help with rack focus shot. Yes, the lens is not interchangable, but with a small camera, you are usually as close as you can and as open as you can. The blacks on this camera and just ungodly. It percieves color amazingly well. I would highly suggest it, once you try it you'll have to buy one.
I just bought a camera panasonic something 72 for 400 bucks from frys, next week same camera was 600 bucks. After using its software it would only transfer 4 minutes of video at one time before it would reach its limit (about a cd's worth). I returned the camera because I figure i will wait till the dvd cameras get better and their price comes down because that way you do not have to worry about transferring data because it will all be on mini dvd. only problem i noticed is that the quality on the dvd cameras are not up to par with other less expensive cameras, as well as the mini dvds are about 15 bucks each(dont know how much th rw ones are). Just depends on where you want to spend your time, in transfers or in editing. I did use other programs to transfer files but the all seemed to clock out around 4 minutes. (it was a minidv camera, so it could be the reason that they were on sale, the fact that it would only allow tranfers of 4 mins at a time). So for family videos transferring 4 minutes at a time over and over again can get tedious. So as I said I recommend finding a camera that makes transferring data to the pc/mac easy. Hope that helps, -Cycil
Is a consumer handheld camcorder that
1) Shoots 16:9 or 2.85:1 or whatever
2) Shoots in at LEAST 480p if not 720p
3) Records straight to DVD
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cannon xl1 if you'd like to see if its up to cinematagraphic snuff, just watch "Dancer In The Dark" Cannes winner... shot using the XL1. supurb color saturation and all the features you want, at an attractive price, plus what most camcorders lack... lens options... try that with a panasonic/sony.
if budget is a concern, go with the gl1... same ccd chip, fixed lens.
Just as irrigation is the lifeblood of the Southwest, lifeblood is the soup of cannibals. -- Jack Handy
Normally I'd agree with you, but there are a handful of high-end camcorders that can answer the question. Low-end... well, truth be told I've heard quality is pretty much the same for all the low-end 1CCD consumer cameras, so it comes down to what you need and the general reputation of the brand. A few semi-informed brand opinions:
Sony: excellent quality but you pay a premium for the name. Probably the only important manufacturer of Digital8 hardware, which might be important if you have a large library of 8mm tapes to be digitized, but they don't make any D8 hardware even close to pro-quality. Sony is also a fan of proprietary formats -- Memory Stick instead of SD/MMC or CompactFlash, MicroMV (which is nothing but a marketing gimmick as far as I'm concerned).
JVC: I use a JVC myself. JVC tends to hide occasional pro features in their camera menus (particularly manual white balance) but the quality of the product depends on the model year. Mine is 2002 and I've never had a complaint; the 2003 models, though, looked and felt like junk. Their 2004 models are too small and seem to have ergonomic issues. JVC does have the only consumer HDTV camcorder available right now.
Canon: They seem to keep their designs pretty consistent from year to year, and the GL and XL series pretty much define the high end for consumer/prosumer camera hardware. Their ZR series is a little on the small side for me, though I'd probably buy one of them if I was in the market for a second camcorder.
Panasonic: The only cheap 3CCD camcorders on the market is one of theirs -- I think the low-end one costs around $800. I can't say much about the quality, though I do find their ergonomics to be awkward -- the cameras are too small, and you have to unplug the battery and put it in a separate charger. To me this is an utterly ridiculous sort of design flaw.
Samsung: Junk for now, though it's gotten better over the years. Tends to be rather gimmicky, though apparently they can play back PAL-format miniDV on an NTSC TV, which would make for a powerful advantage in certain markets.
I think that covers most of the major manufacturers, at least those you'll find at Best Buy or Circuit City. My thinking is that Sony and Canon probably offer the best product available for most purposes, with JVC being a decent choice on the high end but dodgy at best on the Best Buy level of things.
Also get a screw-on UV filter (if your camera can hold one). It doesn't really do anything to the picture, but it's an extra lair of protection in case the lens gets bumped/scratched. They're cheap. A new lens isn't.
DO NOT WRITE IN THIS SPACE
okFrom my research, a Canon GL-2 is my dream cam. It's not huge, and there are a few housings for it. Until my wife finds truly gainful employment, I can't buy it. For now I've got a JVC GR-DVL520. Picked it up for $200 on ebay from a repair shop. It scans nicely for logging timecodes. I use a Powerbook G4 Aluminum 1Ghz w/768MB Ram, 60GB hd, etc. I use a firewire drive to do all the video work. For my work, a 120GB maxtor in a firewire 400 housing. If I needed to work on a bigger production, I'd get a firewire 800 board that can support 4 drives. These are around $80. Put it into a 4 bay scsi case from Halted electronics with some decent drive caddys. Your powerbook can raid the four drives into one big drive. Then you'll have some redundancy if you want as well. I use a contour design shuttle Xpress. It's about $50 vs $120 for the prov2. It's very handy for stepping through frames. You may want to consider getting a FCP keyboard as well. It'll make editing much quicker. I buy my DV tapes from SAMS Club. For $22, I get 8 Maxell MiniDV tapes. I've seen some ebay prices be a little cheaper, but not by much and that was in lots of 50 to 100. BTW, two of the same tapes are $8 at Wallyworld. For serious editing work, get a Deck. More money, but really reduces the wear on your camera. Sony makes a MiniDV walkman that's supposedly excellent. You can get a used pro quality deck of ebay for decent money. That's where I'd buy. For the camera, get an extended warranty. I have a $300 sharp cam that's not worth getting fixed. It eats tapes, and needs a simple alignment, but service is ~$200 minumum. Not worth replacing. The GL2 does 3:2 pulldown, which is film style. Many people prefer the canon cams just for this reason. For an excellent example of this stuff, check out www.crewoftwo.com They used canon cams with digital production and just came out sweet.
I work in Los Angeles as a television editor, and I can tell you this much- I have _never once_ used FCP on a professional shoot. Additionally I know many audio editors, and they all without exception use Protools. I'm not saying this to slight any competing programs, I'm volunteering this info to let you know that if you're looking for a _career_ in the film/TV biz, those are the programs you should start to become very comfortable with. I've edited tons of network TV shows and it's always been Avid Media Composer/Adrenaline/XPressDV. the great thing about avid is that the interfaces are all the same, so if you know XPressDV, you em all, so I recommend that program whole-heartedly.
For everything else, do what the others say and RENT first. Don't blow a ton of money on expensive gear- especially digital equipment that runs the course to obsolence so quickly these days. Rent some decent gear- it will force you to budget your time and shoot efficiently. It will also force you to pre-produce effectively- you should have the entire film/video/short/whatever shot in your head (or storyboarded) before you roll a single frame of actual tape or film. You should spend most of your time WRITING!!!! That's where the craft is- making story count, because there isn't a bell or whistle on any of these fancy cameras that will save a crappy story- I guarantee you.
I've worked on a few amateur films (48 Hour Film Project films, so keep in mind that time constraints may be disproportionate in my experience). I'd say whatever camera you're considering, consider getting TWO. It is easier to intercut DV shot from two identical sources, and it is far easier to get identical cameras to look the same. If you're ever going to need two cameras going simultaneously (e.g. one for the two-shot, and one for closeups and coverage) having two that shoot the same will simplify your life. Consider buying a model that you know you can rent a second one.
That said, a lot of the differences between cameras occur in low or excessive light situations, so good lighting is a much less expensive way to improve your footage.
On geological time scales, it's always almost Friday.
Memory Stick is no more proprietary than SD or SmartMedia (and less so than XD).
I think it was either Canon or JVC (maybe both) that had cameras with oneway firewire ports. You could stream video out fo the camera but not control the camera over firewire or upload video.
All the recent (last couple of years) Sony cameras, have A/D converters. This is useful if you have some analog video that you want to convert to digital and don't want to have to invest in a TV capture card. Typically will give better quality as well.
Also, make sure the camera has at least a 10x optical zoom. There are better ways to evaluate lens quality, but not easily from most marketing specs.
I personally would advise the DCRHC1000. It is a quality low-end prosumer camcorder with a 3chip ccd. Because of the $1.7k price, it probably won't be in Best Buy, and it is hidden at Sonystyle, under the small business section. A friend has one though, and it is fantastic.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life