Copyright Bill could Stifle Innovation

binder520 writes "Wired has an article on how the latest Senate Bill, sponsored by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), will hold technology companies liable for supplying devices or software that can be used to illegally copy music, videos, software, etc. It looks like it is time to write to your senators, because the verbiage in the bill is too subjective for any technology company to stand up to the media giants. Say good bye to your VCR, MP3 players, CD/DVD burners, etc."

Comments

Memory Copyright Infringements Next?

[mfh]

Pretty soon, it's going to be illegal to even look at or listen to something covered by copyright protection. If you think about it, our brains keep a copy of everything we come into contact with in our memories. With science ever progressing towards Utopia, it won't be long before we are able to access and re-experience memories as if we were right there in the moment we first experienced them. "Just look in this little pen right here and say cheese! *FLASH* You will not remember anything about seeing Men In Black 7. You will be happy and do something special for everyone in your life. Thank you from the MPAA!"

Re:Memory Copyright Infringements Next?

[radixvir]

You will not remember anything about seeing Men In Black 7.

I wish i couldnt remember anything about seeing the first two, thats for sure.

But seriously, how many people hate Orin Hatch at this point? he seems to sell out to about any company gives him money. i wish this guy would just go away.

Re:Memory Copyright Infringements Next?

[boarder]

You have no idea how right (well, wrong, but factually correct) that idea is.

Read the actual text of the UK decision PS2 modchips.

Sony wanted the judge to rule that flashing the infringing material on the screen is the same as storing infringing material in RAM, which is the same as storing it in ROM, which is the same as illegally copying the game. They said that just showing the game on the screen is the same as illegally copying a game.

Things might not have gone that far if the modchip in question didn't copy the game to RAM in order to play foreign/homebrew/cracked games. The copying to RAM is what the judge ruled was infringing Sony's copyright. Sony thinks that showing it on the screen was enough to be called an illegal copy. The judge seemed happy that he didn't have to rule on that.

Re:Memory Copyright Infringements Next?

[billcopc]

Isn't that the dictionary definition of "senator" ? An old worthless sack of protoplasm that turns money into law proposals ?

Day in the life of a senator:

1. golf in the morning
2. scam people on ebay
3. trade real-estate
4. molest 14yr old niece
5. check up on today's wire transfers
6. get ridiculously drunk at the steakhouse
7. sit on the board and make some laws

Re:Memory Copyright Infringements Next?

[Hatta]

I hated Orrin Hatch before it was cool. Remember the methamphetamine anti-proliferation act? The one that would prohibit the dissemination of information about how to get, use, or make drugs?

Re:Memory Copyright Infringements Next?

[Skidge]

Yeah, but the major media powers would hate that, since you wouldn't need to consume anything new. What they should do it come up with a way to make you forget the actual content, just that you really liked it (no matter if you really did). Then you'd want to buy the next great thing from them.

Wow

[DigitalSpyder]

Do politicians in America go out of their way to stifle innovation or is it just my perception?

Re:Wow

[jcr]

... just like politicians everywhere else.

-jcr

Re:Wow

[Donoho]

Taken from Wired article: "The bill as it is currently drafted is extremely broad and not entirely clear. It would, at a minimum, undermine the Sony Betamax decision."

Innovation isn't the target, just an acceptable liability. Politicians that submit/subscribe to such legislation are clearly more concerned about protecting the pockets of corporations/industries at the expense of technological innovation or cultural changes that would shift power away from them.

Re:Wow

[pyrrhonist]

I'm too lazy to figure out how to put a link in here so you can look it up on Google like I did.

I did like you said, and looked up on Google how to insert a link.

You start out like this:

<a href="

and then you add the url. For example, a Google result on Orrin Hatch and bills would be:

http://www.google.com/search?q=orrin+hatch+bills

and then finish the tag with:

">

The you add a nice description:

Orrin Hatch Bills on Google

and finally, you add the closing tag:

</A>

This ends up making a link that looks like this:

Orrin Hatch Bills on Google

It doesn't seem all that difficult, and looks like it could add a whole lot to the discussion.

I heard that there was even a tool for browsers to help with things like this.

In summary: u g0t pwned.

Re:Wow

[gcaseye6677]

Actually, many of the corporate abuses in the early 1900s are exactly what led to worker's rights legislation, workers comp and other safety programs, minimum wage laws, securities regulation, anti-monopoly laws, and many other regulations. I don't know what kind of system you would propose that would protect the little guy, but I think you need to remember that there are limits to what companies can do, and the more corrupt they become, the more efforts are made to reign them in. Example: corporate fraud is being cracked down on quite a bit now. The former Enron and Worldcom executives have been indicted, along with many other white collar criminals.

Orrin Hatch is a corporate whore

[Anonymous Coward]

It's time to nuke Utah since it only seems to produce annoying dipshits.

Orrin Hatch?

[Monkelectric]

Why is it that every time congress is doing something incredibly evil -- Orrin Hatch is involved?

Note to Utah: Its time for you guys to deal with this guy and kick his ass around the block!

Re:Orrin Hatch?

[kmahan]

I vote against Hatch every year. Unfortunatly he's part of the local political system and the LDS Church loves him so he won't be voted out.

And he knows it -- he really doesn't care what he does to the people of Utah (or the rest of you). He knows that nobody will hold him accountable. As long as he keeps getting his kickbacks from his big corporation buddies he's happy. Complaints from the "little people" (us) don't even register.

One of the best things he's managed to do is convince the local news outlets (the biggest being owned by the LDS Church) to never report on what he is doing in Congress (aside from when he gets voted "best dressed..") If the citizens of Utah were kept up to date about the legislation he proposes and what his votes are there would be a huge outcry for him to be tossed out on his ass. Supposedly the natives here (I'm not one of them) value things like privacy, personal rights, etc. All the things that Orrin's bills seek to take away.

Non-Story

[c0dedude]

Hatch introduces these radical bills all the time. This one is Pre- committee. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Re:Non-Story

[Erwos]

I agree.

For those not in the know, introducing something to a committee means the "new bills Senate committee" (not the real name, but it conveys the point) is going to take a look at the thing. If they think it's worth their time, they'll spend some time revising it and then introduce it to the floor of the Senate for discussion and a vote.

Bills often change a _LOT_ during committee. And many of them die there. Considering how obviously stupid this one is, it's probably going to be killed in committee. Give the committee a little credit - for every bad bill that gets through, a hundred others die right there.

As usual, though, /. makes this look like a done deal waiting for the president's signature, when in fact it'll probably go nowhere. People might pay a little more attention if things were less alarmist all the time...

-Erwos

Re:Non-Story

[The Importance of]

Not entirely. Hatch tried to sneak this through to a vote without a hearing. Opposition forced him to have a hearing, but he wants a revised bill after August. There is a lot going on here. See, INDUCE Act Archives and LawMeme's Index.

Re:Non-Story

[c0dedude]

Nope, not the way it works. Here's how a bill gets passed. This one is about at step 2 1/2.
1. A senator and a member of the house get togather and write a bill.
2. They drop it in their respective drop boxes, and GPO prints it up.
3. Committee representitives say whether they want a hearing on it.
4. Subcommitees tell their committees whether they want a hearing on it.
5. Hearings are held, and each bill is modified.
6. Assuming the bill doesn't die in Committee, and most of them do, it goes to the rules committee for the Senate and the House. A lot of them die this way, too.
7. The rules committee schedules a vote. If they don't, time passes, Congress adjourns, bill dies.
8. Both the House and Senate vote. If one doesn't support the bill, bill dies. These are timed votes, and if you can't get a majority within about 15 minutes (usually) that's it.
9. Assuming all of the above has occured, you get a conference committee of Representitives and Senators who will hammer out a comprimise between the House and Senate versions. If they can't agree, it dies.
10. Then the President can sign or veto. If he vetos, or refuses to act in 10 days (Pocket Veto), the bill dies UNLESS 2/3 of the House and Senate vote to override it. This rarely (in less than 1/10th of vetoes) occurs. If they dont, the bill dies.

All of this has to occur in about 5 1/2 months.

Re:Non-Story

[dcgaber]

Or the bill could be decided by the leadership to be of extreme importance and put on a fast track to go through subcommittee, committee and on the floor in the matter of weeks, if not days. There is no requirement that there are hearings on a bill, and while there may be outcry, members and senators are not in a real fear of losing their job because they did not hold a hearing on a bill (unless there is public outcry).

Or it could be attached as a rider to another bill or to the approps bill. There are many ways that a motivated Congress can quickly pass bills. While this is a general good outline of the process, it is not uniform and many bills have been approved quickly when the leadership (particularly if both parties) wants it. A good example you know about...Patriot Act that was passed within weeks. You don't know about the tons of other examples because they happen without much fanfare.

Address of Your Senator/Representative

[mlmitton]

I thought it would be helpful to point out a link where you can find the address and phone numbers of your representatives.

For the house:

http://clerk.house.gov/members/index.html

For the senate:

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/ senators_cfm.cfm>

Let's make a difference!

Re:Address of Your Senator/Representative

[Geekenstein]

Even better yet, our friends at the EFF make this as easy as point and click:

EFF Action Center

They produce a very thorough draft letter for just about every one of these evil bills.

Rendering your 35mm film camera illegal...

[IBitOBear]

No really, every single company that makes anything that proports to "remember" anything what-so-ever "can be used" to "remember" a copy of a copyrighted work.

Every single industry on the planet should be against these measures, including the artists.

Relying on "the governments" or "the courts" to "get around to deciding where the draw the line" on *any* matter (as a founding assumption of proposing the mater in the first place) should be punishable by death.

At first reading this may sound like a Troll, or on overstating the case, but if you follow the bouncing dollar bill, you will see that these "statements of vision disguised as law" are simply vast resivours of entropy trying to suck the life (money, rights, and intellegence) out of our culture.

[I guess I am ranting, but what exactly *will* it take to get the people, any people, to listen?]

Orrin Hatch is just pissed...

[john_smith_45678]

that nobody is copying his music

http://www.hatchmusic.com/

Re:Orrin Hatch is just pissed...

[kerrbear]

I still don't understand Hatch. I've said this before, but I remember Hatch kicking Hillary Roisen's ass about fair use early in the debates. At the time he led a heroic effort to stop the RIAA from imposing undue restrictions. I don't understand why he changed his mind...

E.g. from: http://www.insightmag.com/news/2001/01/15/Music/Th e-Napster.Challenge-210824.shtml

Along with the nation's teen-agers, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch of Utah is an unlikely proponent of the online music company. A key Hatch aide recently left Capitol Hill to become Napster's chief lobbyist in Washington. Unbeknownst to many, Hatch is a prolific, yet frustrated, songwriter who says Napster is a great way to get your music known if you don't get a record deal.

"For every Metallica, there are thousands of talented songwriters whose music will never be recorded, talented musicians whose work will never be heard by the public. Peer-to-peer technology (like Napster) may help some of these artists," Hatch said in an interview with Inside magazine.

Very interesting...

[Creepy Crawler]

How you can create a law and have everyone be in violation at the same time..

Havent our prisons been filled up yet? And now "5 Years for Unauthorized Duplication".

Real violent criminals we have here, eh?

Also if I recall, why is the RIAA helping with this guy? Isnt there a law saying a IRS recognized orginization CANNOT have political affiliation or be in support of a certain political affiliation? And there.. seems to be a excess of money going to the Repubs from record *associations* and org's.

Read Atlas Shrugged.

[Kenja]

Read Atlas Shrugged. These laws are not being put in place to be followed. There are there to be selectively enforced.

Re:Read Atlas Shrugged.

[roystgnr]

Atlas Shrugged has nothing to do with it.

Atlas Shrugged has a quote describing this exact pattern of behavior: "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt."

And it's a popular enough quote that I found it in five seconds searching for "atlas shrugged laws"

Ayn Rand wasn't the first one to make that observation.

Probably not. Did the person you're replying to say she was? Can you name the person who was first?

Hatch is just bitter

[Locke355]

He got caught, so he wants everyone else to suffer too.

Microsoft

[Mdalek]

Well in that case, microsoft should be sued first, as Windows is used more than anything else, in copying + distributing illegal files

(sarcasm)

Or...

[tgd]

Note to Everyone Else: Its time for us to deal with Utah and kick their ass around the block. ;-)

Intel against it too

[ctr2sprt]

A director and former executive VP of Intel also wrote an editorial, for the Wall Street Journal no less, bringing up mostly the same points. He's concerned that even stuff like CPUs could be considered "inducements" under this bill. He doesn't think that would ultimately fly in the courts, but he says it would have a really chilling effect on innovation. He used Intel as an example. If this bill had been around back when Intel were starting out, they might not have been able to get investment because of legal concerns. So it doesn't even matter if anyone actually prosecuted under the bill: its mere existence would be enough to discourage investment and innovation.

The mere fact that Wired and the WSJ are both running stories against this bill suggest it has zero chance of ever passing. But it's nice to see a traditional print newspaper warm to some of the issues near and dear to nerd hearts.

Oh, here's the link to the WSJ article, but it probably requires (pay) subscription.

. . . and in other news, Europe pulls ahead

[Brad Cossette]

Good grief, you'd think this legislation was drafted by someone who wanted to cripple the U.S. Economy for good. On the one hand, we have problems with outsourced jobs, economy still struggling to recover, terrorist threats, middle-east unrest . . . and some senators feel that now's a good time to give lawyers even more things to sue companies for??????

You know, I've thought about going into law school - it seems the jobs are leaving the IT industry and heading that way . . .

But seriously - at what point can we just say to the entertainment industry "live with it"? How long has the software industry lived with software piracy for better and worse?

I'll say this - all those countries that have been worried about the corrupting influence of American culture, don't worry. Senator Hatch is working very hard to make sure that there's no possible way for any of that culture to escape the country.

Re:Just great...

[mcpkaaos]

Q: What could be worse than marrying a mormon?

A: Marrying two.

Before the complaining gets too bad

[techiemac]

Before everyone invests a lot of energy posting with the usual "this sucks" and "In Soviet Russia" quote (I bet they will all follow my post now that I said that :) ), those of us that are Americans need to exercise our rights. Often your Congressman/woman and Senator will have "town meetings" when they are in your state. Go to these! Even if there isn't a hot topic at the time (there always is with technology), we, as a Slashdot community, have the oppertunity to provide and gather valuable insight and let our voices be heard. Do you wonder why Medicare, Social Security, etc is always such a hot topic in elections? Well most of the people that I see at these meetings are elderly.

There are very few people under the age of 50 there and as a result, our elected officials only get a small piece of the story. Often bad bills make it through because people spend too much time complaining to their friends and not enough time educating the government. Most of the people that I have met in that line of work are not malicous with these bills, they just simply have a skewed view given to them by some lobbyist.

It is up to us, the people, to educate on the potential ramifications of these poorly written bills. We simply cannot assume that Senator X sits in his office and rebuilds his Linux Kernal all day. These men and women work on running this country and not on running their computers (though some of them do have a techie streak in them).

The best advice here is to do what the article says. Everyone set as their first task tommorow afternoon (I belive Senate is in session until mid afternoon tommorow, you can check on senate.gov), before the ADHD kicks in ;), to call your Senator AND Congressman. Be polite, address them properly (though you will probably only speak to one of their office staff members), and explain the situation in terms the general public can understand (none of "Well it contains and A to D converter and if you stream an analog signal in then..."). Often you will find your Senator and Congressman/woman to be very rational and understanding of the situation.

Good Luck!

Re:Good Jesus...

[crimethinker]

I don't know why senators even bring this stuff up. There's no chance in hell that this will pass

It's bargaining, just like when you're buying a car. The salesweasel starts high and comes down, while you start low and come up.

With the laws, they start with the most obscene and fascist stuff short of getting themselves impeached. Then, when they've "come down on price" a little, it appears reasonable by comparison.

-paul

we h8 Orin club!

[TiggertheMad]

"Friends, The legislation I propose today, will make our great country a better place. In this doccument is decisive legislation to outlaw that menace to all, Orin Hatch!

When it is passed, he will be placed in a wooden box (with plenty of food and water), and shipped to the place where he can do the most damage: North Korea. We expect the regime to be toppled within two weeks of his arrival."

Re:Copyright Stifles Innovation

[Hemlock Stones]

Except something like 40% or more of corporations pay little or NO income tax at all. The largest pay the least (good corporate tax lawyers are worth their weight in gold). Little guys, you know, the ones that tend to inovate most get screwed. About four years ago (give or take a year), Microsoft posted huge profits for the year and payed NO income tax at all. So while they LOVE to complain of high tax rates, big companies don't even come close to acually PAYING them.

Come on.......

[vwjeff]

I don't think the motive behind this bill is evil. Artists deserve to be paid for their work. With that being said, I don't think Senator Hatch, Senator Daschle, Senator Frist, Senator Graham, Senator Boxer, and Senator Leahy realize the consequences of this bill.

Members of both parties support this bill. What does that say? Think about it. Officials will not be re-elected if iPods, DVD burners, ect. are outlawed.

Contact these Senators. Tell them how you feel about this bill. Point out the consequences created by this bill. Lastly, please stop making copyright laws a one party issue because it is not.

Re:Come on.......

[Tony]

Artists deserve to be paid for their work.

Then maybe it's time for a bill that requires the industry to pay the artists?

Right now, most recording artists see 3%-6% of the profits of their works. Most book-length authors see about 10%-15% of the profit from their work.

I'm not saying laws protecting copyright aren't welcome; but the laws protecting copyright are already in place.

It's disingenuous of the people backing these laws to claim they are doing it for the artists. It is rarely the artists themselves backing the bills, nor is it often the artist unions; no, it's the distributors.

If a large number of artists came out in support of any of these bills, I'd gladly back it. But when the only artist voices I hear are saying it sucks as much as *we* think it sucks, it's usually not a bill in their best interest.

Sorry. I think the whole, "Artists deserve to get paid!" arguments are right up there with, "We have to do this for our *children*." It's a baldface lie, and I'm offended they think I'm stupid enough to believe it.

Re:Without media creation tools...

[StrongAxe]

How are people supposed to create copyrighted works in the first place?

Er... are you suggesting that for a copyright holder to make a copy of their own works, that they can self-infringe? That's as ridiculous as saying that for someone to drive their own car, they have committed grand theft auto (the crime, not the game

No, he's not saying this at all.

Under Induce, manufacturers are forbidden from making devices that could conceivably be used to infringe. Which means that you couldn't burn copies of your own CDs, because CD burners could be used to burn other people's CDs, and would hence be illegal.

This is somewhat reminiscent of the laws in Demolition Man: "Red meat is bad for you; therefore it is illegal".

Not only electronic devices

[Maljin Jolt]

But a paper and ink will be illegal too under this bill, by definition.

I still remember the times, when in deep communism it was illegal to own a private or non-registered typing machine (or is it typewriter in english?). At more relaxed times later, the same rule was about photo-copiers.

So many blacklisted books were copied hand-written. You can't imagine what a breaktrough in totalitarian regime mind control was made with early 8-bit computers with dot-matrix printers.

It seems, America is suddenly jumping backwards some 60 years of world political culture. What I cannot understand is which economy motives are driving such trend.

and we're supposed to pressure Congress because?

[alizard]

If our technology companies can't be bothered to spend the money on politicians required to cover their own asses with respect to the ability to design consumer products in America without getting them approved by Hollywood, I'm not quite sure why we should do anything about this.

High-tech industry seem to get what it wants on H1B/L1, R&D tax credits, unrestricted outsourcing. They've learned their lesson about paying off Congress. How do you think DOJ was persuaded to back off MS after they were declared guilty?

Why did DMCA pass? Our technology industry just doesn't care. Why aren't technology industries trying to stop this?

The only recent example of a united tech industry not getting what they want was the P2P bill, and IMHO, the only reason why they didn't get it stopped was that they didn't care enough to play hardball.

People forget that the net gross revenue of the Hollywood cartel combined would be considered a roundoff error with respect to what the high-tech sector of the economy pulls in. Why do high-tech industries let themselves be the dog in the "wag the dog" scenario? Presumably, they're still hypnotized by visions of infinite future profits driven by complete customer access to all Hollywood's content (unlikely) over universal broadband (even more unlikely) with the happy customers happy to pay whatever is asked for pay-per-view/listen for content they are no longer allowed to own.

Why hasn't the high-tech user community organized a mass action PAC along the lines of the NRA/AARP model to get what we want?

None of us who actually has the money to start one gives a fuck. Losing on this sort of thing is just another excuse to "save money" by offshore R&D using the excuse "Sorry, but we can't employ Americans in America to do R&D, you know how much paperwork Hollywood requires to get our products approved."

The people who've benefited from the efforts and purchases of our community are not interested in giving back, they just want to strip-mine what they can of value from us before going on to other labor/consumer markets.

There's no useful political leadership in this area, i.e. nobody willing to buy politicians to protect our freedom to create technology, and the odds that any will develop are slim to none.

There aren't even people we can vote for to get this sort of thing stopped. This measure has bi-partisan support, just like the DMCA had.

The only solutions to this problem at this point are individual ones. If you want to innovate and you live in America, find a nation more friendly to innovation. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to afford to do.

In a few years, the really cool consumer products aren't going to be coming from America anymore, and there's a good chance that they either won't be sold here or will only be available via black market.

"Citizens always get the kind of local government they deserve."
E.E."Doc" Smith

Re:Where's That Site?

[ConceptJunkie]

Thanks to McCain-Feingold, that's no longer necessary.

You just don't mention your candidate by name and you can spend all you want any way you want.