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Copyright Bill could Stifle Innovation
binder520 writes "Wired has an article on how the latest Senate Bill, sponsored by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), will hold technology companies liable for supplying devices or software that can be used to illegally copy music, videos, software, etc. It looks like it is time to write to your senators, because the verbiage in the bill is too subjective for any technology company to stand up to the media giants. Say good bye to your VCR, MP3 players, CD/DVD burners, etc."
Pretty soon, it's going to be illegal to even look at or listen to something covered by copyright protection. If you think about it, our brains keep a copy of everything we come into contact with in our memories. With science ever progressing towards Utopia, it won't be long before we are able to access and re-experience memories as if we were right there in the moment we first experienced them. "Just look in this little pen right here and say cheese! *FLASH* You will not remember anything about seeing Men In Black 7. You will be happy and do something special for everyone in your life. Thank you from the MPAA!"
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Do politicians in America go out of their way to stifle innovation or is it just my perception?
It's time to nuke Utah since it only seems to produce annoying dipshits.
Dammit, so now I'm going to have to dispose of my Pantograph then?
gadgetophile.com
at least VCRs will still be useful, a la the (slightly paraphrased) Family Guy quote:
Two hicks in a trailer with their pants around their ankles arguing over a VCR
Hick 1:"Hey, it's my turn with the sex box!"
Hick 2:"N'uh, it's my turn, and her name is Sony"
Note to Utah: Its time for you guys to deal with this guy and kick his ass around the block!
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
We don't have the US Sentate here. C'mon up! =)
say goodbye to your hard drives.
Hatch introduces these radical bills all the time. This one is Pre- committee. Nothing to see here folks, move along.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
For the house:
http://clerk.house.gov/members/index.html
For the senate:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/ senators_cfm.cfm>
Let's make a difference!
"My girlfriend's got sodium laureth sulfate hair."
... I bet next they'll outlaw bigamy in Utah too.
... say what?
At first I thought the headline was a shot at Gates.
No really, every single company that makes anything that proports to "remember" anything what-so-ever "can be used" to "remember" a copy of a copyrighted work.
Every single industry on the planet should be against these measures, including the artists.
Relying on "the governments" or "the courts" to "get around to deciding where the draw the line" on *any* matter (as a founding assumption of proposing the mater in the first place) should be punishable by death.
At first reading this may sound like a Troll, or on overstating the case, but if you follow the bouncing dollar bill, you will see that these "statements of vision disguised as law" are simply vast resivours of entropy trying to suck the life (money, rights, and intellegence) out of our culture.
[I guess I am ranting, but what exactly *will* it take to get the people, any people, to listen?]
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
that nobody is copying his music
http://www.hatchmusic.com/
John Kerry is a Joke!
Wasn't it not long ago we constantly ask why media companies like Sony is, on one hand, trying to prevent users from copying copyright materials, and on the other, trying to sell copying device like NetMD and DVD Writers?
With this new Bill, they won't be able to have the cake and eat it anymore.
Uselessful technology (Air-Charged
How you can create a law and have everyone be in violation at the same time..
Havent our prisons been filled up yet? And now "5 Years for Unauthorized Duplication".
Real violent criminals we have here, eh?
Also if I recall, why is the RIAA helping with this guy? Isnt there a law saying a IRS recognized orginization CANNOT have political affiliation or be in support of a certain political affiliation? And there.. seems to be a excess of money going to the Repubs from record *associations* and org's.
Guess what the senator says about holding gun companies liable for murders committed with their products?
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Read Atlas Shrugged. These laws are not being put in place to be followed. There are there to be selectively enforced.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
I don't know why senators even bring this stuff up. There's no chance in hell that this will pass because even the industry will be against it (besides the fact that it's ridiculous). Nutsy stuff like the DMCA can be passed because some people don't understand the full ramifications of the law and it is pushed by the industry, but this law would just be ridiculous.
It's similar to the "Hollings Bill" which could easily be interpreted as requiring that every digital to analog converter have copyright protection abilities. Any electronics hobbiest or EE knows that that is absolutely ridiculous considering the simplicity of most D/A converters and the expense of adding an adequate copy protection mechanism. Furthermore, any copy protection mechanism is pretty useless anyways because it's not like you can't get the analog signal that's coming out and re-encode as an unencumbered file. Plus, building your own D/A is rather trivial!
He got caught, so he wants everyone else to suffer too.
"Say good bye to your VCR, MP3 players, CD/DVD burners, etc."
And your customers.
"You're getting brutal, Sark. Brutal and needlessly sadistic."
"Thank you, Master Control"
-Sark and the MCP
the least you can do is subscribe to the EFF Action Center to get in on the fight against totally evil shit like this.
PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
I am maddened by the continually increasing insanity of American Lawmakers. All of this crap could very well be enough to cause me to change my plans to move back to the States someday. At least here in Canada smaller parties actually get seats. Have fun waiting for the libertarians to get a seat in congress . . ..
Don't save Windows XP! http://www.petitiononline.com/jjw1xp/petition.html
Well in that case, microsoft should be sued first, as Windows is used more than anything else, in copying + distributing illegal files
(sarcasm)
Not really. For every quack in the pocket of Disney who introduces a fascist copyright bill, there's a quack in the pocket of Dell or HP there to oppose him. It's like checks and balances on crazy.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
Note to Everyone Else: Its time for us to deal with Utah and kick their ass around the block. ;-)
Is it just an oversight on the part of readers, or journalists, or Slashdot editors, or some combination of the above to ignore many other things that also stifle innovation, like high taxes? Isn't it at all possible that more companies would invest in research and development if they could afford to do so, but they cannot because too much of the potential profits are seized by the government?
"It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." ~ Christian Slater, True Romance
The mere fact that Wired and the WSJ are both running stories against this bill suggest it has zero chance of ever passing. But it's nice to see a traditional print newspaper warm to some of the issues near and dear to nerd hearts.
Oh, here's the link to the WSJ article, but it probably requires (pay) subscription.
For the country that's supposed to be the "Land of the Free" and the supposed defender of democracy and open government, there certainly doesn't seem to be much of that sort of thing going on at the moment.
-
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"I may have invented it, but Bill made it famous." - David Bradley, inventor of Ctrl-Alt-Del
Good grief, you'd think this legislation was drafted by someone who wanted to cripple the U.S. Economy for good. On the one hand, we have problems with outsourced jobs, economy still struggling to recover, terrorist threats, middle-east unrest . . . and some senators feel that now's a good time to give lawyers even more things to sue companies for??????
.
You know, I've thought about going into law school - it seems the jobs are leaving the IT industry and heading that way . .
But seriously - at what point can we just say to the entertainment industry "live with it"? How long has the software industry lived with software piracy for better and worse?
I'll say this - all those countries that have been worried about the corrupting influence of American culture, don't worry. Senator Hatch is working very hard to make sure that there's no possible way for any of that culture to escape the country.
-- "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" [Oscar Wilde]
I guess that makes him (or it?) an outlaw. Or maybe future Furby's will be programmed to self-destruct if your 2 year old sings them a copyright tune, like the Barney theme or happy birthday. Does this make my telephone voice mail an illegal circumvention device? Somebody might call me up and hum a copyrighted song, better unplug it....
Has this guy ever thought of moving to N. Korea? I bet he would love it there. Too bad for him that East Germany no longer exists. He would have made a wonderful Stazi bureaucrat.
Actually, somebody should propose an amendment to his bill which would also hold liable the manufacturer of any technology which could be used to reproduce copyright printed matter as well, so we can outlaw computers, typewriters, photocopiers, paper, pens, etc. Just to show how looney this really gets.
My rights don't need management.
In what perhaps can be taken to representative of a sign of the times, the "We the People" category has not been used in over 3 years. So for all of you who think this is a new category, it's not, it just hasn't been getting all that much attention lately.
Orrin Hatch, Republican, Utah.
Nope, I'm not particularly fond of any of those three.
It is becoming increasingly common for legislators try to get any bill passed, no matter the constitutionality of it.
Between the defense of marriage act earlier today and this, I am just so disgusted with the whole lot of them.
With the betamax decision, it was ruled that it is ok to make personal copies of tv shows. It is logical that the same could be said of recorders of CDs to MP3s or (preferably) OGG or FLAC.
So now Hatch comes up with a bill that would do nothing but tie up the courts (after causing pause to innovators) until it is ruled unconstitutional and we are back where we started.
Then Hatch comes up with practically the same bill all over again, and the process continues ad infinitum (sigh)
I am maddened by the continually increasing insanity of American Lawmakers.
You're confusing insanity with evil.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
And how would that help? Libertarians love to suck up to big business.
Not the real ones. The rise of corporate power has paralleled the rise of government power. There's a reason for that -- a causal relationship, in fact.
-- I could tell right away that she was impressed with my HUGE Slashdot Karma.
Because the government of, by and for the people is not that way. Hasn't been since the mid 1960's. Maybe earlier but that was before my time. We don't elect people anymore, the lobbyists and large contributors do. Then they do what those people want, not what we, the common citizens want. We are powerless to change it because half the people in our country don't have a clue what's going on because they're too self-centered to look around and open their eyes. Another fourth can't hit the right lever or punch the correct hole because they can't read a simple printed card.
It's sad really. I love my country but I feel like such a minority as a conservative. Since the liberals started screwing things up in the late 60's it's slowly been spinning out of control. I fear it's only going to get worse now that the Clintons have lowered the morals bar so far the typical American can't even get under it if they work at it. There was a time when it was an honor to serve the American people in congress. Now it's just a means of acquiring power and an easy retirement and guaranteed health benefits.
I feel bad that people all over the world are laughing at us, but we brought it on ourselves.
Have you hugged your penguin today?
How are people supposed to create copyrighted works in the first place?
-Derick
Orrin Hatch really is so deep in the **AA's pockets (although it must be hard to kiss their asses with his head lodged firmly up his own...) that he really goes far too far with these "copyright protection" bills.
A bill of this nature would destroy innovation and understanding in many areas, such as the previously quoted example of a college professor discussing the use of the current protection on audio CDs. It is also so broad that it could be used in many malicious cases, to the same or even greater extent than even the DMCA is used now. Markham Erickson put it best in the article, when he said:
The last thing anyone needs now is yet another law which is so broad in scope, it is utterly trivial to abuse. Once again, the rich get richer, everyone else gets fucked.
Let the bill pass.
The let the Feds come.
The only people who will be safe will be those who don't consume the products of the RIAA/MPAA and others.
Let the bill pass, then unplug from the data stream these people seem to think they should be under such control.
You can email your senators or fax your senators and tell them to wise up.
Or you can sit around and post comments on Slashdot that no one with the power to change things will ever read.
Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
From the article:
"We keep asking, 'What's the rush?' It's not clear that everything has to be wrapped up in the summer of 2004."
Well given that Bush & Co. are going to be given the boot in Fall, I think we've discovered the real reason why all this needs to be wrapped up in Summer.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Before everyone invests a lot of energy posting with the usual "this sucks" and "In Soviet Russia" quote (I bet they will all follow my post now that I said that :) ), those of us that are Americans need to exercise our rights. Often your Congressman/woman and Senator will have "town meetings" when they are in your state. Go to these! Even if there isn't a hot topic at the time (there always is with technology), we, as a Slashdot community, have the oppertunity to provide and gather valuable insight and let our voices be heard. Do you wonder why Medicare, Social Security, etc is always such a hot topic in elections? Well most of the people that I see at these meetings are elderly.
;), to call your Senator AND Congressman. Be polite, address them properly (though you will probably only speak to one of their office staff members), and explain the situation in terms the general public can understand (none of "Well it contains and A to D converter and if you stream an analog signal in then..."). Often you will find your Senator and Congressman/woman to be very rational and understanding of the situation.
There are very few people under the age of 50 there and as a result, our elected officials only get a small piece of the story. Often bad bills make it through because people spend too much time complaining to their friends and not enough time educating the government. Most of the people that I have met in that line of work are not malicous with these bills, they just simply have a skewed view given to them by some lobbyist.
It is up to us, the people, to educate on the potential ramifications of these poorly written bills. We simply cannot assume that Senator X sits in his office and rebuilds his Linux Kernal all day. These men and women work on running this country and not on running their computers (though some of them do have a techie streak in them).
The best advice here is to do what the article says. Everyone set as their first task tommorow afternoon (I belive Senate is in session until mid afternoon tommorow, you can check on senate.gov), before the ADHD kicks in
Good Luck!
Well really, isn't that what happens in the end? In the end, the only thing that is safe to own is an object made entirely of atoms, or to take your entertainment directly converted to analog forms like light and sound, as (so far) we cannot duplicate atoms, pressure waves or electromagnetic radiation exactly or easily. Whereas we can easily and almost infinitely duplicate the pattern of electrons in a circuit (computer RAM or internet packets) or the patterns of magnetic domains strewn across a surface (hard drives, mylar tape, floppy disk surfaces, etc.) that make up the *bits* in digital things, and that fact is totally freaking out someone who knows how to make huge sums of money off the movement of atoms and electromagnetic frequencies but not the movement of digital bits.
You get the feeling that there are people out there who are at war with the notion of regular people having access to bits. They want to restrict what bits you can see translated in analog forms of light and sound. They like having the bits to themselves as they are easy to store, transmit and convert, but they do NOT want anyone other than media companies to have access to the conversion process. We get the analog forms they want us to have, when they want us to have them (after the exchange of atoms in the form of currency) and not a moment before.
"trustworthy computing" is headed the same way. They will let you pretend to own the computer (money changes hands first) and you can use your eyes free of charge to enjoy whatever shows up on your monitor, but every bit that goes thru the thing must be approved by a central authority, and you may have to buy (money changes hands again) the right to see the analog conversion take place on the hardware you "own". Oh, and they'll sell you vinyl LPs because you cannot buy the equipment to duplicate them yourself.
Vinyl! God help us. I can't believe we've come back to vinyl as a safe and permitted portable music format. I suppose Apple will come up with a version of the iPod to play tiny vinyl LPs. Four songs in your pocket.
I can't stand it. I just cannot stand this crap any more.
=^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
We can't be content with merely banning devices that can illegally copy copyrighted material.
We need to ban any device that can potentially play illegal media!
No child is safe while televisions and music players exist which could possibly corrupt their minds with illegally copied media!
Ban all Media Players now!
"Say good bye to your VCR, MP3 players, CD/DVD burners, etc."
... or at least another /. post.
First of all, Hatch proposes insane bills, that go nowhere, all the time. Second of all, as technologically inept as many senators/congressmen may be none of them, in their right mind, would let a bill like this pass. We're talking about illegalizing [is that a word?] technology that people, businesses, and the government use every day.
Obviously we should not just sit back and scoff at the bill's content for its sheer insanity, but write your representatives and leave the tin-foil hat for another day
Who doesn't like free music?
As far as I can recall, vinyl was the only audio medium (in common use) that didn't get copied ad nauseum by the masses (on the same medium - am excluding ripping your 45 onto MP3 or CD).
Tape you could dub. I'm too young to recall 8 track but can't imagine it couldn't have been recorded in some fashion.
I can't see any music format coming out in the next N years that it wouldn't be possible to get a 99% good rip taking the analog output and putting that into the analog input of your sound card / minidisc deck / recording system of your choice. It isn't pure digital but for the unwashed masses and all those who didn't spend more on their stereo than their car it wont matter 99% of the time
HTF could you make CDR decks illegal on your PC?
Only in america!
Land of the free?
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
Where's that icon come from? I don't think I've seen it in months, if not years. I give up- I spent 5 minutes, even looking through the page source, trying to figure out what the hell "CDA" means. Constitutional Delinquents of America?
In any case, I for one welcome our constitutional overlords.
Please help metamoderate.
If a technology has no substantial noninfringing use, it would be at risk, but it is already at risk under the current law.
If a technology does have a substantial noninfringing use, then it seems to me that all the makers/sellers of that technology have to do is only promote the noninfringing use, refuse to provide tech support to people having trouble with infringing uses, and stuff like that.
"Copyright Bill could Stifle Innovation" - well, no shit! That's the point!
Innovation is what's destroying the business models of the MPAA/RIAA, just like the affordable, mass-produced automobile destroyed the markets for carriage-builders and buggy-whip makers.
A good deal of the political wrangling that goes on in the world centers around the legal protection of business models. This is true of trade policy, agricultural policy, copyright and patent policy, fiscal and monetary policy, defense policy, and on and on.
Monied entities that face loss of income due to changes (technological, social, or otherwise) will fight hard to reverse, halt, or at least slow said changes. They will fight hard on every front they can, including through the systems of political patronage. That's reality.
Here's hoping that in this instance the much larger side (the tech and consumer electronics industries) fights back and wins. It's worth remembering that IBM alone takes in more revenue than the MPAA and RIAA combined. The latter just has celebrity appeal and a devestatingly effective political machine - not to mention the power of the media to make or break political candidacies.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
If it is possible to prosecute for the illegal use of a product which has a legal and legitimate use, then surely by extension it will only be a matter of time before someone (unless they already have) sues bullet makers for providing the means to kill people.
I know that guns don't kill people, it is people that kill people, but a VCR / CDR / generic recording device does have legitimate uses that don't violate copyright.
I am glad that I don't live in the states. If this is the model of democracy and things being done for the people rather than for the oligarchs (read the corporations the politicians seem to owe their souls to) then I would hate to see a country really in need of liberation.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14
"Friends, The legislation I propose today, will make our great country a better place. In this doccument is decisive legislation to outlaw that menace to all, Orin Hatch!
When it is passed, he will be placed in a wooden box (with plenty of food and water), and shipped to the place where he can do the most damage: North Korea. We expect the regime to be toppled within two weeks of his arrival."
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Its always Orrin Hatch, that try to crap on our parade. Do not vote for Orrin Hatch, next time he wants to get into the office.
Maybe that's something the Slashdot community could tackle. How to make the whole process better. I suspect part of the problem is shear quantity, as well as the obtuse nature of the wording of some of these bills.
I just thought of a great twist on the Turing test. You put a human being into a room with a terminal. On the other end you either have a senator or a random sentence generator. If the human cannot tell the difference, then you have built the world's best random senence generator.
Um, you might want to check your facts there pardner before you get on your high horse. This is a bill introduced by Senator Orin Hatch. They don't get much more conservative than that. He wants to introduce it on a vote with a Republican controlled senate and house and give it to a republican president to sign.
Thank you for your pointless post, try RTFA next time before you pointlessly bash liberals and show your own ignorance of the situation, k?
1. They're laughing at us, but not for our lack of morality.
2. There are far easier ways to get a pension and health benefits.
3. A lot of people just don't understand the political process.
4. The Florida ballot was confusing and broke Florida law. The Democrat had to be printed right below the Republican, not third.
5. The liberals started screwing things up? Care to back that vague charge up, or continue trolling?
6. Oh please. Do you really think that Clinton cheating on his wife was so shocking to the American people? Half of our marrages end in divorce.
7. It still is an honor to serve.
8. The world is laughing at us because we can't get our head out of our ass and realize we have bigger problems then whether gays can marry or whether Kerry is an optimist. Let's worry about the bigger issues here, folks.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
Database of US Senator's Email Addresses
And here are some tips on how to compose the email.
I already sent mine.
Or listen to it here: in ogg format.
You'll get the gist of the committee's intent after the first few minutes. A little longer and you can hear what each player's concerns are. Complete with humorous banter and sexual innuendo.
Although one naturally thinks of this as a RIAA-backed initiative, they're like Darth Vader to the BSA's Emperor IMHO.
that'll teach him!
in bed.
I mean I always see news on about patents and all things coming up but now I read the bill and have to say, "how the fuck do you guys deal with crap like that?". I can whole-heartedly understand the point behind such a bill which would be to protect intellectual property but is not the meaning of this too broad?
Havin' it large, livin' the life, Welcome to the land of the rising sun.
At least he writes & sings better songs than John Ashcroft.
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
I don't think the motive behind this bill is evil. Artists deserve to be paid for their work. With that being said, I don't think Senator Hatch, Senator Daschle, Senator Frist, Senator Graham, Senator Boxer, and Senator Leahy realize the consequences of this bill.
Members of both parties support this bill. What does that say? Think about it. Officials will not be re-elected if iPods, DVD burners, ect. are outlawed.
Contact these Senators. Tell them how you feel about this bill. Point out the consequences created by this bill. Lastly, please stop making copyright laws a one party issue because it is not.
We could give them Utah if they agreed never to let Celine Dion leave the country ever again or record another CD.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
"Senate judiciary staff are eager to get the legislation moving because they are worried that a federal appeals court in California will uphold an April 2003 court decision that did not hold peer-to-peer companies liable for their users' copyright infringement. The so-called Grokster case was argued before the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in February, and a decision is expected soon."
I'm puzzled. Even if the court rules favorably to p2p before the bill is passed, why would that prevent the bill from passing (and being enforced) later? After all, courts didn't prevent the US from zig-zagging on issues like Prohibition, slavery, womens' suffrage, etc.
I did a search for the word "hard" before posting this. Maybe the wrong word. But since most disk drives are hard drives, and since they can be used to hold copyrighted data, the proposed bill obviously will outlaw them, too, right?
Sen. Hatch is only protecting himself from these damn pirates, since it is practically assured that his music is on the top of pirates most wanted music lists around the globe. Or maybe hes a just the fascist pinhead he asserts himself to be.
I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. (Charles Manson)
HEY, isn't that little "We The People" logo at the top of this page a violation of a copyright?
And what should we do with all those people who have microphones and stuff to hook them up to... In all its absurdity this plan is even dumber then it looks, the only guys who will own recording equipment will be the bad guys. Oh Wait...
A vote for a libertarian is a vote for the democrats. Much like a green vote is a vote for Republican. Do yourself a favor and dont be stupid and throw your vote at a libertarian.
Clones are people two.
Orrin, for his support of the Induce bill, among others.
His son, Brent (iirc) for representing SCO in their suits avainst IBM and Novell....
Oh well.....
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
The above sentiment seems about fifteen years out of date. To borrow from this story, nothing embarrasses people in Washington anymore:
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
All these recent bills and such seem like a knee-jerk reaction to the whole Oh-God-No-The-RIAA-Is-Going-Out-Of-Business-And-It 's-All-A-12-Year-Old-Girl-With-An-Internet-Connect ion's-Fault. What these people need to do is stop outlawing computer hard drives (which it sounds like this bill has the potential to do) and instead find a way to get the media into the hands of Poor College Students and little girls -- so they can all sit back and enjoy an evening with the Olsen Twins in a bath towel -- at a reasonable cost.
The sad truth is, some people just can't afford 20 bucks for a DVD or CD, or 10 bucks for a one-shot movie ticket. While you could argue they should then live a very dull life watching paint dry, people have found that downloading the goods is a victimless crime. But now, cheap streaming videos and 99 cent song downloads appear to be changing all that and looks to be the wave of the future, so why the hell not embrace it?
Ya, Libertarians suck up to small business, bless them.
OK, here is my opinion of Orrin Hatch: It seems that this man does not know what he is saying before he says it, and somehow it makes it to various stages of review in congress and ends up on slashdot. The idea that manufacturers of devices that are able to copy media can be held liable, etc. is proposterous.
ie: liquor store sued because drunk husband beats wife. not right, eh?
Mr. Hatch is attempting a proactive elimination of illegal use of media (well i mean he's gotta get the riaa to keep paying him somehow), but he's doing it at the wrong level. *users* need regulation (if anyone does...). This is not the way to prevent illegal abuse of copyrighted material. This is a good way to
Piss off music lovers
Make people not like you just a bit more
Mr. H. Thanks, but i'll fill my iPod with all the music i just finished d/ling from my favorite shiesty P2P all afternoon. (until, of course, P2P is illegal, as you would have it.....)
sigSEGV - doy!
I don't think you understand the expression "the elephant in the room"" :) The internet isn't something that we'd rather avoid talking about or easily overlook at slashdot.
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Actually, in this election I'm torn between voting Democrat and voting Libertarian... Go figure. (Normally I'd never vote Democrat, but well the temptation to get rid of Bush is soooo great)
Senator Boxer is up for election this year. Vote against her. Vote Bill Jones for Senate. (He's the guy everyone now wishes they had voted for last time Gray Davis won for Gov.)
Why doesn't Michel Moore go after these people? It seems to be just as target rich an environment as his current subject area.... :-)
Because to tell the story won't hurt President Bush.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I think the question is
How come every time anyone does something incredibly evil, utah is involved?
http://action.eff.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item =2918
this is a crock. this act could be taken to ban
computers, electricity, or even talking above a
whisper.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
MOD PARENT UP +1 INSIGHTFUL
It occurs to me, that as radical as this bill sounds, it is exactly what we need.
Suppose that it was indeed illegal to merely manufacture a device that could be used for copyright infringement. Consider how society would react:
To make a long story short, people would simply stop consuming digital media. Instead, they'd get out and socialize, or play sports, etc... instead of sitting at home in front of a computer or television. This bill would radically alter the spending habits of the American consumer, destroying the entertainment industry in the process:
I gaurantee this wouldn't last five years before it would be overturned.
What the RIAA and MPAA don't realize is that a substantial part of the value of a CD or DVD is the ability to 1.) make a backup copy, and 2.) mix MP3 tracks for mix CD's. Without this, there's not much point - I can simply listen to the songs on the radio and never bother to buy the CD. If this law actually passed, the dearth of technology improvements would actually drive the MPAA and RIAA out of business - who will buy a CD when electronics makers no longer make CD players for fear of legal liability? Who will make a DVD player when you could be sued for doing so?
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Same question here. Some digging makes me think it's the Communications Decency Act. Why it has its own topic and the Constitution for an icon is beyond me. I'm open to better theories at this point...
California's own Silicon Valley state legislators have absolutely horrible anti-technology and anti-business voting records. The Unions and trial lawyers spend far more on them than the technology companies in their own districts, and they vote that way, even worse than the rest of California.
You can't create a camera to record a movie with since it can be used to record an illegal copy of the movie, so movies will cease to exist. As will books, music, all culture.
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
My first response to this sleaze ball is WHY do the people of Utah keep voting this fucker back into office?
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
Doesn't this mean that anyhting that can be used for illegal purposes could be illegal, like guns and knives? else anything that could possibly break copyright law is illegal, but anyhting that could kill people is ok?
But a paper and ink will be illegal too under this bill, by definition.
I still remember the times, when in deep communism it was illegal to own a private or non-registered typing machine (or is it typewriter in english?). At more relaxed times later, the same rule was about photo-copiers.
So many blacklisted books were copied hand-written. You can't imagine what a breaktrough in totalitarian regime mind control was made with early 8-bit computers with dot-matrix printers.
It seems, America is suddenly jumping backwards some 60 years of world political culture. What I cannot understand is which economy motives are driving such trend.
There you are, staring at me again.
Someone in the House is trying to start up a bill that would essentially remove the jurisdiction for federal courts (and I think, the Supreme Court as well) for ruling on anything regarding marriage rights.
Now, I'm not a great constitutional thinker, nor have I ever played Nomic, but what would happen if Congress passed a law that essentially prohibited the federal courts from overruling its laws by removing their jurisdiction, and the President signed it into power?
How could the Supreme Court even rule against this, if Congress has passed a law that says it has no jurisdiction over that law?
Sure, there is a logic trap here, but...
Too bad a Democrat or other Republican cannot stop this insanity over such a non-issue by trying to pass a law that allows any civil union (whether its called a "marriage" or not) the same legal and financial rights as a "marriage", or prohibits the passage of laws that prevent the passage of laws that punish civil unions at the expense of marriages?
Yes, I'm married. But I see no reason why I should get certain legal privileges, rights, benefits and responsibilities because I am married that an equally committed gay or lesbian pair of people cannot get because they are not "married". That would include being able to take on the responsibility of raising children, will property, implied rights of survivorship, etc.
If these asshats were so hard-up to make a constitutional amendment, why not just roll back their own laws and go back about 60 years, and make it virtually impossible to get a divorce?
Where has the Pope's (the institution, not necessarily the current one's) opposition to divorce gone?
If you want to help oppose this bill here are some action websites:
Click The Vote
Save the iPod
... and in the DRM, bind them.
1. Stop buying music/movies produced by the RIAA or MPAA, any artist related to the above
2. Make it publicly known why it is that you are not purchasing their products - ie. talk with newspapers and other media outlets explaining why. This way the RIAA, etc. will have a tougher time playing the piracy card
3. Send a letter to your local senator explaining why you are against bills such as this one and others, like the broadcast flag, etc.
If enought people do atleast steps 1 and 2, others in the general community will start listening and hopfully the **AA's tackticks will backfire on themselves.
And yes, I am doing as I preach... I have already taken step 1, I haven't bought a CD or downloaded music for over a year now and honestly I don't really miss much. If I really want to hear the latest music (very rarely), I will turn on my radio and listen for a while.
High-tech industry seem to get what it wants on H1B/L1, R&D tax credits, unrestricted outsourcing. They've learned their lesson about paying off Congress. How do you think DOJ was persuaded to back off MS after they were declared guilty?
Why did DMCA pass? Our technology industry just doesn't care. Why aren't technology industries trying to stop this?
The only recent example of a united tech industry not getting what they want was the P2P bill, and IMHO, the only reason why they didn't get it stopped was that they didn't care enough to play hardball.
People forget that the net gross revenue of the Hollywood cartel combined would be considered a roundoff error with respect to what the high-tech sector of the economy pulls in. Why do high-tech industries let themselves be the dog in the "wag the dog" scenario? Presumably, they're still hypnotized by visions of infinite future profits driven by complete customer access to all Hollywood's content (unlikely) over universal broadband (even more unlikely) with the happy customers happy to pay whatever is asked for pay-per-view/listen for content they are no longer allowed to own.
Why hasn't the high-tech user community organized a mass action PAC along the lines of the NRA/AARP model to get what we want?
None of us who actually has the money to start one gives a fuck. Losing on this sort of thing is just another excuse to "save money" by offshore R&D using the excuse "Sorry, but we can't employ Americans in America to do R&D, you know how much paperwork Hollywood requires to get our products approved."
The people who've benefited from the efforts and purchases of our community are not interested in giving back, they just want to strip-mine what they can of value from us before going on to other labor/consumer markets.
There's no useful political leadership in this area, i.e. nobody willing to buy politicians to protect our freedom to create technology, and the odds that any will develop are slim to none.
There aren't even people we can vote for to get this sort of thing stopped. This measure has bi-partisan support, just like the DMCA had.
The only solutions to this problem at this point are individual ones. If you want to innovate and you live in America, find a nation more friendly to innovation. That's what I'm trying to figure out how to afford to do.
In a few years, the really cool consumer products aren't going to be coming from America anymore, and there's a good chance that they either won't be sold here or will only be available via black market.
"Citizens always get the kind of local government they deserve."
E.E."Doc" Smith
Tech Public Policy stuff
its going to be a ton of fun suing sony and panasonic and everyone else under the sun for making vcr's and cd-burners which allowed my friends to copy my home videos.
with all the money i make i just might be able to afford a couple of cds.
Honestly, at least for my part of the world, the only way to stop people from trading online is to make the "real thing" look like it's worth the price tag. I thought CD's were promised to "someday" cost as much as a cassette tape - over here, cassettes cost something like $8 and CD's average between $23-$35 - makes me feel like margins are always measured in USD.... how much do they cost over there?
"2. There are far easier ways to get a pension and health benefits."
True, but I never said it was easy to become a politician. Some people are naturals though and that's one of the draws nowadays. Where else can you serve one term and get an automatic pension AND not have to pay into the social security system?
"3. A lot of people just don't understand the political process."
Ignorance is not a defense.
"4. The Florida ballot was confusing and broke Florida law. The Democrat had to be printed right below the Republican, not third."
C'mon, anyone that has seen a copy of it and can read can figure that out. That's a cop-out. If it had been the other way around you wouldn't say a word about it, would you?
"5. The liberals started screwing things up? Care to back that vague charge up, or continue trolling?"
I don't troll, thank you very much. How about the welfare state they drove our poor and lower class into for one? How about teaching kids in school how to masturbate instead of teaching them abstinance? Liberal programs. Too many to list. The generational dependancy of our welfare system is not debatable, it's fact. I don't believe the welfare system was designed to keep people on it, but it sure did a job on our poor, especially inner city residents. Look, there are many reasons for these things. It would take a book to list them all. Republicans have a hand in it too, but not like the Democrats do.
"6. Oh please. Do you really think that Clinton cheating on his wife was so shocking to the American people? Half of our marrages end in divorce."
No, that's the problem. People consider divorce as an easy way out of a marriage that probably should not have happened to begin with. Over the last 10 years or so personal responsibility has taken a real hit. Remember when pre-marital pregnancy was looked down upon? We had far fewer teenage pregnancies then than we do now. Today it's almost a badge of honor in our high schools and it's really starting to turn my stomach. The fact that Clinton had an affair should surprise no one, but the way he and Hillary bend over backwards to justify thier wrong-doings (I didn't say illegal) is very frustrating to those of us that are trying to explain to our kids why they got away with something we say is wrong. They're not the only ones, they've just done so much of it it's easy to pick on them.
"7. It still is an honor to serve."
For some, sure. But for most it's a power trip.
"8. The world is laughing at us because we can't get our head out of our ass and realize we have bigger problems then whether gays can marry or whether Kerry is an optimist. Let's worry about the bigger issues here, folks."
Unfortunately, this *is* a big problem as it will determine how our country ends up after the debates and legal fallout happens. Yes there are other things we need to worry about as well, but don't discount these two topics. If the leader of our country is not an optimist, the moral of our country will fall. History shows this. Look at the difference between Gerald Ford & Jimmy Carter and the way our country and military moral skyrocketed when Reagan took over. Then Bush #1 screwed up and Clinton, well, I'll leave that alone given the number of execs in lawsuits, a recession that Greenspan said was turned around by the Bush #2 tax cuts, etc. We have the greatest country in the world but we're screwing it up big time.
Thank you for the polite debate. I enjoyed it very much. I don't care much for the "troll" tag though. I try to make my comments based on facts, not flubber.
Have you hugged your penguin today?
Fair enough, just slap a "Do not use this product for piracy" sticker on the front of everything and carry on as normal. While we're at it, we could get a "Do not use this product for murder" sticker on guns. Wow, this opens up a whole sea of product safety messages I think we could be on to a winner!
"Do not use this vehicle to commit traffic offences"
"Do not use this pipe for consumption of illigal substances"
And for exports - "Do not use this gas centrifuge for the production of weapons grade uraniam"
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Being from Utah, I am highly embarassed by Hatch's shenanigans. If there is anyone else out there who would like to help me let the people of Utah know what he is doing in Washington, please reply to this.
Mad Software: Rantings on Developing So
doesn't that also include harddrives, digital cameras (think smartmedia card, memorystick, etc), computers, cell phones, notebooks (can write down song lyrics), pens, pencils, markers, knives (can carve copies of pictures), film, eyeballs, ears, brains, humans, etc, etc, etc??!?!?!?!
I don't see any way of enforcing this or even wording it so that it would be posible and not infringe on our everyday rights. Not only do I not see any way of doing this, I don't want people to even try.
i propose a mass suicide if the world gets that restrictive. A world that restrictive is not worth living in. A world that restrictive is worse than slavery. We're nearing that, now, with all this RIAA/MPAA bullshit.
I understand the need to protect what's yours, but I believe it's starting to be taken too far.
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
The best parts about this kind of bill is that it sets the industries and corporations against each other. Sony, Phillips, Apple and hundreds of other companies make a fat profit living off the playback of media - and so preventing them from making say, an iPod, would really hurt them. So they're going to lobby against this kind of bill.
Except of course that Sony is also a proponent of such a bill. We might not have an ally, but the enemy of our enemy...
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
It's time for the tech companies like Apple, Creative, Other mp3 player makers, CD/DVD RW Driver makers, etc to get to gether and spend some money on some good Lobbyists. That seems to be the only way to shoot-down a DUMB idea in Congress these days. I fear, however, that as long as we have such a reactionary group making decisions (laws), things will not get better. We need people who are proactive and can make decisions which will prepare us for the future and foster growth and progress in our knowledge and technology, instead of people who will react to lawsuits by passing laws which instantly make a company's business (on which millions of dollars were spent) illegal. It's not hardware/software makers fault that the record industry was too complacent and ignorant to change their business strategy to match society and the times, yet these hardware/software makers will pay the price if this moronic and cretinous law is passed.
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
People need to go to the source of the REAL problems with this stuff..... ORIN HATCH. If folks are truly concerned we'd wage a total campaign war to unseat this fruitcake. He has a twisted history of supporting this kinda stuff.
since you could theoretically use it to reproduce books, and we all know they're copyright. keyboards come next, then pens, then the whole world goes back to pre-cave man days, because even the cave men had their charcoal paintings..
I just listened to the hearings Hatch held and if you don't think he is serious about passing this bill or something very similar to it within one month's time, then you obviously aren't paying attention.
It's also ridiculous to say that something like this will never pass. It's nearly inconceivable that something like this would NOT pass if it made it to the floor! Most in Congress don't understand technology or Copyright at all, and if Hatch & Leahy tell them that this will help solve the "scourge of p2p on the music business", then you had better believe that this will pass. I would even bet we'd see it pass on a voice vote, with no recorded vote, just how the Sony Bono Copyright Term Extension Act was passed.
You have exactly one month to write your Senators and tell them to oppose this bill and/or to come up with an alternative that appeases Hatch. From the hearings it sounds like a bill that targeted p2p specifically and dealt with the fact that sharing is turned on automatically in most of these clients, might get Hatch off the warpath. It's important here to emphasize the legitmate uses of p2p technology though, and to craft a bill that narrowly does what Hatch wants, which is a way to sue Kazaa, Grokster, etc. into oblivion.
Many of those testifying said that the Sony v. Betamax rule (that technologies with substantial non-infringing uses are legit) should be codified into law. If INDUCE could be turned around to include this sort of language, then that would be a true victory for innovation. Suggest that in all your letters to Senators!
Like Digital Freedoms? Then donate to EFF before they're gone.
This sig has been stolen. Return it to its original user for a reward.
I hardly think the companies that currently make such technology (MS, Sony, Panasonic, etc.) will simply roll over and let the media industry take this away. They'll likely pay their congress critters, and the congress critters will play both sides until they make a decision which can later be appealed at futher great cost, etc.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Haven't we been through all this with guns over the last 10 or so years? There have been numerous attempts to find gun manufacturers liable for deaths or injuries involving the uses of their products. I don't think they've lost a case on these grounds yet. In every case, I think, it has been found that the responsibility lay, not with the manufacturer, but with the operator of the gun.
I think it should go like that for this case, ultimately. As long as there are legal and proper uses for the products in question, it seems unlikely that manufacturers can be held liable for user's bad acts.
In the worst case, at least this might provide some traction in those suits against gun manufacturers.
The dream of computing--the whole reason we geeks find computers so fascinating--is this idea that you can have one machine that can do *any operation imaginable* on information. Its ability to interact with meatspace is limited--mine just has a keyboard, mouse, microphone, speakers, and monitor, devices barely suitable for information I/O. But, once you get something in the form of information, the only thing limiting what the computer can do with it is my own cleverness.
That's the *point* of this Universal Turing Machine business--you can make a gizmo that, in its own scope of digital data, can do *anything*. It's omnipotent, given enough intelligence on the part of the programmer and time to run.
The fact that the same machine can play chess on a GM level, can create lifelike animations, can let me communicate with someone half the world away with 80 msec latency, can store thousands of books of data, et omnia cetera, would have been simply amazing to someone living a century ago. That's why computers are such a Big Deal: universality.
It's a crime, and it should be, to do certain things with that power: accessing my bank records without my permission, for instance. But there's a disturbing trend to take away the universality of these marvelous machines: to limit the power to do things, rather than limiting the things you can do. This defeats the whole purpose of computers.
What if iTunes and Napster were to put the best (OK, least awful) cuts on their services and 30,000 techies buy a cut? That would get his attention in a favorable way.
We have more money than RIAA, we should use some.
So, at least now I won't risk poking out my eye with that sharp stick.
Does anyone know where that site is that lists all contributions made to senators and such (how much and where from)? You know, these people legally have to report all contributions and such. I've looked around for links here on slashdot, and also through numerous google searches.
Let it go through, then wait for the backlash. We need the pendulum to start swinging the other way, so why not help it a bit with some positive feedback?
Oh well, what the hell...
Telephone answering machine.
What's the difference between a device that can be used to copy music legally and a device that can be used to copy music illegally?
None, other than the intention of the owner.
The DMCA already makes it illegal to circumvent copy protection measures, so what's the need for another law?
Because he can't find enough facts to bend, nor enough video footage to cut and paste into what he wants. Seriously, this guy is like the anti-drug commercials; they don't HAVE to lie and be unrealitsic to prove their (correct) point(s), but they do. And I can't understand why. So boo to michel moore for having the right goal but doing it all wrong, and boo to this post for being off topic.
Why doesn't Michel Moore go after these people? It seems to be just as target rich an environment as his current subject area.... :-)
I can't see the movie industry publishing a movie that makes them look bad, we are talking about a law proposed by an MPAA whore after all.
Orrin Hatch is the biggest corporate lacky in a long time. He is also full of tons of misleading statements about H-1B visas, quoting the pro-cheap-foriegn-labor lobbyists almost verbatim. We should do something about him as a slashdot group.
Table-ized A.I.
I was involved in a lawsuit where a village selectively enforced conflicting regulations when I was building a house, stopping me. I showed up with reams of evidence showing that, for example, my case was the *only* case in the 40+ years of one regulation that it was ever brought up.
The result? A Federal court judge ruled that there is nothing is wrong with selective enforcement of *ANY* law so long as the selectivity is not based on race, religion, etc. And she cited precedent (why my legal team didn't know or tell me this before I paid them 6 figures is another story).
So in this case it would be perfectly legal and proper (although likely immoral) to pass such a broad law and then go after anyone with a dissenting opinion of how government should be run.
I am saddened by the country we are passing on to our kids. As my father, a decorated veteran, said of the proceedings, "This isn't the country we fought WWII for any more."
Orin Hatch is a nudist! Exclusive Photos!
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
Agreed, when I read crap like this, I'm sure happy I live in Canada and not the US.
But both of our countries have the same problem however - a population of sheep that just rolls-over when big business pays-off a politician to pass whatever law they feel will best-ensure their cash flow.
Everyone just goes "oh, that sucks" and goes on with their life instead of DOING something about it.
(see Bush's presidential "win" for a perfect example of US Democrats just rolling-over rather than fighting).
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Surely greed would be a contributor to malice then...
"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco
Can we hold brickyards responsible for making objects that can so easily be thrown through plate glass windows?
Can we make gun and knife makers liable for the deaths resulting from someone using their products?
This bill is just asking for a whole slew of similar legislation to be proposed if it passes. Mon Dieu, what's next? Can the day when we hold hammer manufacturers responsible for someone breaking a window to steal a car be near at hand?
How come Slashdot never gets Slashdotted?
He is my senator, even though I voted for someone else. What we need to watch out for is the feinting bill. Hatch is a master at this. He introduces an outrageous bill that draws a lot of fire. He will then withdraw the bill and introduce a different one that is only a small step toward the goal of the outrageous one and it will pass and become law. Hatch will say that this is a necessary compromise between those that love freedom and those that need to protect their intellectual property. Hatch will be seen as a great compromiser here in Utah, even though it was his idea in the first place to start down that road. (Or more likely, the idea of some lobbyist that is secretly lining Hatch's pockets.) I've seen it many times before with Hatch. I wish the people of Utah would wake up and stop voting for him just because he's republican.
TANSTAASS (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Safe Space)
I am _so_ sorry they will ban Windows.
This being /., it had to be said.
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
Obviously, this is rediculous, but where is the line drawn? There are plenty of legitimate uses for DeCSS. I'd like to be able to bring a FireWire hard drive around with my DVD collection, but that's illegal.
I mod down pyramid schemes in sigs.
I wrote this letter to Orin Hatch in response to the The Inducing Infringement of Copyrights Act. I plan to print it and send it off on Monday. What do you folks think of it? Any constructive feedback would be appreciated for improving the letter.
Dear Senator Orin Hatch,
As a citizen of the state of Utah I am concerned about The Inducing Infringement of Copyrights Act you introduced last month. I feel strongly against the measures specified in the act and feel its passing would not be in the best interest of our country. Innovation in technology related fields, especially with regards to personal computing is fundamental to our economy.
Over the last few decades the United States has transitioned from an economy supported by manufacturing to one based more on services. American companies are innovating in new and exciting ways and this innovation is possible because of technology. Empowered by technology pharmaceutical companies are discovering new drugs by using automated systems to combine existing drugs with the hope of finding good combinations. While automobile manufacturers are designing more fuel-efficient vehicles which produce lower emissions. For everyday people the technology available today has empowered us to communicate better, to learn more, and to be more active in our world.
While the protection of copyrights is important to ensure the prosperity of our entertainment industries, it is my opinion that The Inducing Infringement of Copyrights Act will do more harm then good. This act will discourage technological innovation, something fundamental to the prosperity and stability of the American economy. Furthermore, limiting individual rights of fair-use is not the solution to the issues of piracy and copyright infringement. I understand and support the need to take action against copyright infringement. But I strongly and sincerely believe The Inducing Infringement of Copyrights Act is not the solution.
Thank you for your consideration regarding this matter. I look forward to and would appreciate your personal response.
I don't understand what all the complaining is about. The US government has decided that media (music, movies) can be owned, and the owning companies simply want their property protected. Since the government gave the owners an exclusive right to copy the media, then all devices capable of copying the media are in de facto violation of the law.
Media has already been judged ownable; distributers have already been given non-terminating ownership, and copying media in any manner without the permission of the owner has already been ruled illegal. Whining about new mechanisms that protect these existing rights is silly. It's too late, it's already law.
Now if you want to argue the ownership laws themselves, then go ahead. But I suspect nothing short of a constitutional amendment is going to change things at this point. Meanwhile these new laws are a perfectly logical extension of current ownership law.
Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
Is anyone concerned that stupid laws like this will just make innovation happen outside the US.. while the corporation line their pockets all the good stuff will be designed and made somewhere else.
Yeah, for a politician it's just an acceptable liability
"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)
Government of the people, for the corporations, and by the corporations.
I love C++
It's time to start thinking to move the Statue of Liberty to another country. As time passes her actual location seems more and more unappropriate, unless we want to find her a new name. Unluckily wherever we move her Profit will ultimately find her and make a mock of her name.
what you forget is this is just america, the rest of the world doesn't give a stuff about american laws, we will just make our own devices and our own content if the USA insists on this rubbish. end game.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
will hold technology companies liable for supplying devices or software that can be used to illegally copy music, videos, software, etc.
Quick, somone write a compiler that takes Brittany Spear's latest album lyrics as "source" and turns them into a CD ripper program.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Once Utah is a smoking hole, we can claim the axis of evil also included Washington state.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Too shortsighted.
What you also forget is that political decisions like this (especially when influenced by big-business) do tend to spread. Slowly but surely. If this goes through in the US then it's only a matter of time before they start puching for the same thing in Europe, Canada, Australia, and everywhere else.
And although I don't think legislation is "bought" to quite so high a level in other countries I'm pretty sure the politicians do fall for the FUD and exaggerations put around that "Piracy is Bad and Leads To Loss Of Otherwise Assured Sales".
I might be in the UK, but I get scared about every potential bad American law, because I know it won't take long before they start to push for the same changes everywhere else.
TiggsTiggs
"120 chars should be enough for everyone..."
Self contradictory laws in action. Yikes.
Lemme see if I have this straight.
The USA government is considering a law to ban any machine/software that can copy stuff that is copyright. At the same time they expect ISPs to keep logs of what their customers are up to so the FBI and RIAA can catch people up to no good (eg planning destruction or breaching copyright).
So if an ISP uses one of those evil copying tools to back up their evil copying servers and customers websites which might contain "illegal" MP3s are they not also in breach. If the ISP stops doing backups and logs, are they then in breach of the FBI spy requirements?
ISPs refuse RIAA access to logs
FBI Carnivore
UK Survelliance
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
This is just another example of why the torch of civilization is being passed back from America to Europe, and particularly the EU.
Like the Muslim world after 1454, the USA is now sowing the seeds of it's own destruction. Sure it's armies, large relatively homogenious population, and enterprising culure will ensure that the decline is slow, but under the two-pronged attack from the Religious Right - stifling stem cell and biological research because of 'moral' considerations - and The Corporations - stifling technological innovation with excessive with excessive DRM measures - the engine of innovation which has fuelled America's acendancy is faltering.
Europe in contrast is slowly gaining confidence and cohesion. With a total population now considerably larger than the USA and increasing mobility of workforce (English as lingu franca and machine translation on the horizon will increasingly enable that) the old advantage of the size of the internal American market is negated and even reversed. An increasingly secular population places purerly pragmatic restrictions on biological research - hence the increasing migration of molecular biologists into the EU - and the Corporations, while powerful, are held to account by multiple levels of the democratic process.
It'll probably take a hundred years or more to play out in full, but it's now totally forseeable that the EU will be the superpower of the 22nd century.
...when they pry it from my cold dead hands.
Looking at the news on the internet for damn near 3 years now, I'v noticed this pattern; insane bill that makes a corporation god gets introduced by a lousy representative who deserves to get thrown out of his post, insane bill gets rejected because corporations are not supposed to be god. Idiot representitve gets re-elected because there are only idiot representatives to elect (there are fewer now than before, thanks to the internet new people do exist).
Within the last year we've had a good 3 or 4 stupid proposals, and within the last 3 years we've had the TCPA, homeland security telling ISP's to setup their systems to be readily tappable, the RIAA wanting to be able to go into people's houses and search them for evidence, such and so on. With each of these bills, there are rabbid crazy people who pop up and say something to the degree "WTF ARE YOU THINKING!".
But, every onceinawhile, a stupid bill DOES get passed, like the DMCA, or patriot act, of which's stupidity are only obvious to those with even the slightest ability to think ahead. After talking to many different people, I'd have to say more than 70% of the populace (at least locally) do not think these bills are good ideas and moreso, they are enraged deep down about them. Unfortunstely people are so used to the the governments 3-foot long cock-job that they no longer notice their sphincter getting strected 6 inches wide when it is inserted in rapid sucession. Infact, most people have come to like the process, while others accept it.
Candy-Coated Knowledge
Orrin Hatch's Christmas Eve
It's a nifty CD that's popular among lobbyists and soft money aficionados everywhere.
What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean my sig is repetitive? What do you mean....
If congress and the president represent business, and the supreme court represents the president, then who represents the People?
... oh, gee! How can we hold you responsible - you're just doing your job!
So if your software or hardware can copy music (music I would NOT purchase anyway, based on the rotten behavior of the american music industry), you can be liable for the theft of music.
But if you manufacture a weapon that can KILL PEOPLE,
So, what does this tell you this government's first priority is? It surely isn't "We the People" anymore.
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -- "Step Right Up", Tom Waits
Someone needs to clue industry in that the best way for them to get access to all of Hollywood's content is to revert the copyright terms to the original term of 14 years with one renewal effective retroactively.
It would hardly affect the software industry where the life cycles are so short, but would open up a ton of yummy content for them to promote the sale of software, hardware, and service products.
Its probably (although probably almost impossible to pass) easier than getting a fair deal out of the music/film/media industry (see Apple where the music industry allows them a small sliver of change which is almost enough to keep their service running).
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That particular ballot was designed by the Democrats on whatever Committee that does that sort of thing in Florida.
And don't blame the Clintons for declining morality. It was declining long before Bill & Hillary came along.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Unless I'm mistaken, checks and balances insists that the Supreme court (through Judical Review --a statute established in Marbury versus Madison) is the the1 ultimate arbiter of the constitutionality of U.S. law; therefore, it should be impossible for a law which removes the Supreme Court's jurisdiction to not be able to be overturned by the Supreme Court for that very reason alone. Unless, of course, the Constitution is changed.
Anyone have anything else to add?
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
I'm inclined to set up a website that urges people to ask Sony for replacement CDs of their PS2 games (assuming this case is about PS2?).
If they won't provide replacements, they've proven themselves liars in court. If they charge for replacements, they've undone their argument that there's no reason to have a backup.
Wanna help?
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
Anyway I don't hate Microsoft much, since it doesn't harm anyone who does not use their products much, at least. What I hate are DMCA backers and patent monkeys, since they make some useful software illegal, which harms people mostly unrelated with them (those who never bought or used anything from them, and those who discover their patented technology independently, sometimes without any knowledge of the patent).
Nope, first degree murder is a specific intent crime. A drunk driver could never validily get convicted of first degree murder unless the specific intent should be shown.
In a normal murder case is can be shown by the defendant buying a gun, buying bullets, sitting outside his girlfriends apartment, and then shooting her when she passes by.
But there is no specific intent to murder merely because you're drunk and have no idea what you're doing.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Can someone clarify for me exactly how broad this bill is. To me, it reads than anything that could be used to breach copright in any way is illegal. This doesn't just mean CD, DVD, MP3 etc. but also covers anything used to transmit the data. So, MS (file & print sharing), Cisco (routers, switches), ISPs (net access), telecoms companies and for all I know the people who make the copper wires that connect your house, ar all open to a lawsuit for incitement. Warm up your lawyers, they are going to be busy.
If this principle becomes firmly established in law, say goodbye to your crowbars, knives, and hammers as well. Say goodbye to pillows and ropes. Say goodbye to pharmaceuticals of any description. Because if X is liable for Y's misuse of X's perfectly legitimate product, essentially everything that humans have fashioned for themselves becomes bad for your legal health.
Let me know when some yahoo sues Stanley Tool Works for selling murder weapons (i.e. boxcutters). Apparently intelligence was just a passing fad and humanity has moved on.
What is the definition of an honest politician?
When they are bought, they stay bought.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
There's a followup to this story on wired in This article.
-- Does anybody know where the 'any' key is on the keyboard?
Dosen't Microsoft Windows XP have the ability to write to a cdr? I bought a new dell that had a cdrw, I dont remember installing the software, infact I know once I even dragged and dropped files onto the cdr drive, and it burned them after 2 more clicks. Does this mean sience windows gave me the ability to burn files to cdr that they too can be affected by this?
TruePunk | Games
Technically, corporations are people too. Therefore in the spirit of advertising, it's still government of the people, for the people, and by the people.
Letting lawyers make the laws is akin to hiring vulpine architects and contractors to design and build your henhouse.
http://xkcd.com/386/
Seems to me that if an IT company can be held liable for copyright violations, a gun manufacturing company can be held as liable for murder (when a gun is used).
"The main problem with today's high-technology society is that we allow politicians to run it instead of people equipped with the wherewithal to understand it. Their mentalities are still in the nineteenth century. How can they hope to manage complex economies when they're not competent to run a yard-sale. What can they do that requires even a smattering of knowledge or intellect?" ~somebody else
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
absolutely hilarious ... or it would be, if it didn't affect the rest of the people in the free world (and by free world I obviously mean everywhere outside of the USA). what is it with you people and your politicians ? your european ancestors gave you the chance to embrace intellectual pursuits and to understand the 3 basic underpinning elements of a civilized society ie. free education, social welfare, and free medical care, and what do you do ? all you can do is focus on primal animal things that manifest in gree (capitalism and the throwing out of all 3 of the basic's of civilized society so that only the greedy rich can get ahead). it's incredible, and remember, the politicians that you have are indicitive of the intellect of your society cos *the people* vote for them. sure their are intelligent people in america, but look, you don't educate the masses, and give them good health, you end up with retarded republicans and outrageous capitilist greed such as this article is talking about leading to nothing being free or fair. i cringe everytime I hear an american say "land of the free". what is free ? free reign for the government to take anyone they want to sort-of concentration camps and call them terrorists whenever they want ? freedom to have no privacy in your homes or anywhere else ? WHAT exactly is free about american society ... ??? , hopefully in 50 years the united states of Europe can take over as the dominant political force of the world . "take the power away from immature children" as it were ... that is, if you don't kill us all first ... sheesh ... world gone to sh*t real soon now thanks to america and it's anti-freedom legislation, JUST LIKE THIS ! thankyou america ... !!! (that's sarcasm by the way, for people that don't understand sarcasm).
I think this is an excellent idea. Make the chip mfgr pay for making the circuits needed to make the devices. And the folks who make the steel or plastic cases. And how about the folks who supply the sand to make the chips. And the UPS driver who delivers the parts. And the pizza guy who feeds the workers who build the devices. And the teachers who train them. And the parents who raise them. And while we're at it, why don't we go after the STOOOPID ASS CONGRESS-MORONS who screwed up the DAMNED PATENT SYSTEM???
As another data point... The only time the US has used aerial bombs on its own citizens was at the Battle of Blair Mountain in West Virginia when officials called in the US Army Air Corps to bomb striking coal miners.
- Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
Big media is a relatively recent phenomenon. For most of history, artists dealt directly with the public or were supported by patrons, with no media company help. As media companies fail to create business models that can cope with technology, and rely more on the law, they will simply die. This is of no concern to musicians, as technology has provided cheap tools for recording and distribution of music. The same is increasingly true for movies; in fact, I believe we will see a great flowering of "community cinema" analagous to community theater. Ultimately, we will have access to far more and varied content than media giants provide.
OK. So corporations have taken over the government and are using it to oppress the people. The Randian/objectivist solution is to reduce or eliminate government power. But without government power what will the citizens use to counter corporate power. With no government in place to enforce laws the richest and most powerful will rule. The corporations are, by far, the richest and most powerful. They're also psychopathic.
The real solution is to break the bond between corporations and the government. The simplest and most effective way is to overturn the court decision that declared corporations to be persons. As persons, their ability to lobby and finance the politicians can't be checked effectively. They get what they want because they are the most powerful "persons" in the process. We need to end that and take our government back.
By targeting government and regulation as the problems you play right into corporations' hands -- willingly throwing away the only source of power you can hope to have (unless you're a billionaire). We need to force a divorce between government and corporation and re-wed government to the people (from whom it has been stolen).
Remember -- the constitution starts with the words, "We, The People." It's time we took that seriously. Choose or lose.
- Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
everything that you rely upon that is external to yourself
will fall away and crumble to dust. the only thing that remains
is what you make the effort to retain in the memory of your experiences.
= 9J =
Sorry, you've got the headline wrong..it should read 'Copyright Bill Will Stifle Innovation'. Anyone who thinks that passage of this bill 'could' stifle innovation needs to take a reality pill. Give the MPAA, RIAA etc the power that this bill appears to give them and you can be sure that the only innovation that will be allowed is that which will directly benefit these interest groups and their duly bought and paid for politicians.
One day I woke up and saw all my rights had disappeared, that's the day I knew the terrorists had won.
Yeah, it is a very Republican state, but not as bad as many think:
Jim Matheson - Congressman
Bill Orton - Former Congressman (3rd Dist, no less!)
Scott Matheson - Former Govenor
But, it's not like Bush or even Cheney think they need to swing through the state to lock it in... Hatch on the other hand, may just get the boot if he keeps being a bone head!
"Creativity is allowing ones self to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep" - Scott Adams
The cool thing about a UTM is the fact that it can emulate any other UTM. The fact of this is in the domain of emulators - software that emulates hardware. It is in this domain that I find computers most fascinating, because it hints that software and hardware are the same thing and that in theory, you don't need what we call hardware to run software. Hardware is software "realized" in physical form - but because software can emulate hardware - is the "real" form absolutely necessary?
If you break that, you no longer have a UTM - and if you don't have a UTM, you no longer have a true computer, you have a special purpose calculator, at best. What is trying to be done isn't removing the concept of a UTM, but tying it up in such a way with laws and DRM to allow others to control "your" UTM - so that you can't really have a UTM.
Unfortunately for them, you can easily build a very slow UTM using nothing but paper and pencil and some rules. You could probably cobble a UTM even from the crap that they would later pass off as a "computer" - but here we are talking about hacking at a hardware/software level. If this trend continues, a black market in information processing and technology will develop in those countries affected by such laws. Hackers/phreakers/techno-anarchists will find a home and a "job" in this bleak future, they will be the "drug dealers" of the 21st century. I hate the fact that each day it seems to be leading to this, and that one day I might have to choose between chains and freedom in my coding, and that freedom will become synonymous with illegality as a result...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
If they won't provide replacements, they've proven themselves liars in court. If they charge for replacements, they've undone their argument that there's no reason to have a backup.
That's a flawed argument, because it assumes that a company is obligated to provide you with a free replacement every time your product becomes damaged through negligence or abuse. I think it's pretty obvious that it is unreasonable to expect a company to repeatedly replace merchandise that you damage through your own stupidity. At some point, people have to take responsibility for their own mistakes. If you're a moron, and you scratch your CD, too fsckin bad. Buy a new CD, and try to be a little more careful this time.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Except Sony said in court that there's no reason to have a backup, since they provide replacement CDs.
I'd want to have a backup, even if it was my own negligence that caused the first one to disappear. Unless Sony was going to send me another one for free.
Since Sony said that there's no reason to have a backup, they've taken into account user negligence.
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
Why would you imply that the goal of this legislation is not precisely to stifle innovation? Congress has been alarmed by the pace of innovation and the prospect of we the people getting away from their death grip. That's why they've unleashed this torrent of draconian legislation and have tolerated the recent Patent Office mission creep. That's why the current legal environment allows lawsuits such as SCO vs IBM. They want to gum up the works through litigation and legislative repression until they're able to take control again.
Stallman stands vindicated. The struggle is about freedom. They want the Web to be an Orange County shopping mall rather than a vibrant, living city. If you're too far from the norm or aren't there to spend money, you'll get ejected. And no political expression allowed.
Get your teeth into a small slice: the cake of liberty
I think what we may be witnessing is some kind of "meta-war". That probably isn't the right term. What I mean to say is that the MPAA and RIAA are composed of many multi-national corporations. Individually, many of these corporations have a "war-chest" or ability to generate income that exceeds the GNP of many smaller nations. Together, who's to say they don't have more power and wealth than any single large first world country?
Maybe they don't today, but maybe they are trying to get it, via an economic war. They buy their politicians, who sell out their own country by helping to introduce and pass laws like the DMCA, etc - that effectively undermine and destroy the content production base, to turn us into a consumer market (they have just about won this battle), only buying their product, not making it (who says they need to manufacture it in any form here? Its all just bits, and bits can be offshored). Perhaps they are trying to get to a point where they are big enough...
...To eventually hire one of the multi-national mercenary army corporations that have formed (and are being used) in the past 10 years. Or, perhaps they will create a new one of their own? We have corporations raping our world, we have corporations supplying mercenary troops, logistics, and weapon systems. Many of these corporations are multi-national conglomerates. Maybe we are witnessing the rebirth or reforming of even more powerful keiretsu - taking the next step of becoming virtual "states" having no true borders, but with the control, power, money, and even a standing army to back it all up?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Do they really do this? For no charge?
The games are free, but there is a shipping and handling fee that runs from $30-$50, depending on the game.
So, who's the artist?
This 3% is the same whether it's Justin Timberlake (who does absolutely nothing), or Todd Rudgren, who does everything (plays every instrument, mixes, records, *works* for a living).
The *artist* is the writer, the engineer, the session musicians, the people who do the actual work. They generally see a flat fee, no matter what, usually a good wage, but nothing like the recording companies take in. The point is, the laws aren't there to protect the artist (like they claim), but to protect their own interest.
The way things are going, it will be impossible for artists to record their own work and distribute it over the internet, because the only legal distribution channels will be through the current media companies. Sure, the artist can provide their own MP3s, but what good will that be when MP3s are illegal? When the only recordings that are legal are those that are signed by some big business that can afford the signature block?
*That's* the point. I'm arguing against two things: the laws themselves, and the rhetoric that these laws somehow protect "the artist."
I don't give a fuck what the artists get paid; the entered into that deal themselves. I just want them to have an option for producing and selling their music without entering into the deal in the first place.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Final offer.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
It seems hardly fair to make such a comment such as "I am glad I don't live in...." without mentioning what country you do live in.
It would add some meaningful context to an otherwise vacuous statement.
BTW, I do live in the states, and don't feel that democracy is equivalent to capitalism any more than communism is equivalent to totalitarianism or Islam to terrorism. Let's unmuddle our thoughts a bit, no matter where we happen to live.
I live in Australia.
While not totally the lap dog of Bush, we're close.
It was more a "as bad as things might be over here, at least they're not as bad as you guys have it" than a snide anti-american sort of thing.
One upside of the USA = fair use copying of music. It's not allowed over here, but doesn't seem to be enforced at all.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World" 1 John 4:14