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Hatch Pushes INDUCE Act

An anonymous reader writes "According to CNET the Senate is leaning strongly in favor of the INDUCE Act sponsored by Senator Orrin Hatch. It looks like the RIAA is making significant progress manipulating the marionette strings in Congress. MP3newswire.net states that if such laws were to pass, the record industry would become the new AMTRAK. 'Bloated and inefficient as always, but now a drain on taxpayers wallets and liberty as well'." Infoworld has a story as well. Reader CryptoEngineer writes: "Marybeth Peters, of the US Copyright Office testified recently before the Senate Judiciary committee in support of the INDUCE Act, which has been discussed here before. In summary, she thinks its not strong enough. Among other things, she proposed scrapping the Betamax decision, which makes it legal to timeshift TV shows with a VCR. Analysis here."

101 of 739 comments (clear)

  1. Powerful incentives (and interests) by SIGALRM · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Senate is leaning strongly in favor of the INDUCE Act sponsored by Senator Orrin Hatch
    Senator Hatch has a powerful incentive [opensecrets.org] in attacking P2P networks (see #'s 7, 15, 18).

    Oddly enough, by the same logic he's using in this legislation prescription drugs should be illegal because they can be abused as well. But since the rest of his top contributors are pharma co's he isn't likely to raise that as an issue is he?
    --
    Sigs cause cancer.
    1. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by cheeseSource · · Score: 5, Funny

      Orrin Hatch should be beat upside the head with a mackrel.

      That's just my humble opinion though...

      --
      (Sponsored by cheeseSource for President 2012)
    2. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you sure his incentive isn't simple in being an artist himself? http://www.hatchmusic.com/

      Tonight at Saltair, on the anti-P2P tour, Orrin Hatcn and Metallica!

    3. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      SBC is a disincentive, not an incentive. Media piracy helps SBC, because they sell high speed internet access.

      Depending on how vaguely INDUCE is termed & interpreted, (I have no idea about this.) SBC's current business practices could be considered illegal under the INDUCE act, and they may be required to change or face consequences. Dunno.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    4. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by antarctican · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know, I would like to see this pass, I would even like to see the Betamax decision overturned. Why you might ask? Because of the wakeup call it will create.

      Right now it's only a small fraction of the population fighting this, or that even is paying attention. However when the RIAA and their lawyer start suing and the VCR becomes illegal.... the public will finally wake up. The sleeping lion which usually let's the government pursue it's own agenda at will, will begin to fight.

      There will be calls such as back in the revolution days, only this time it won't be led my traitors to the Britain (hey, I'm Canadian, the yanks were traitors in my eyes ;) it will be those fighting for these freedoms they've become accustom to. It will force some hard decisions on the direction you want for your country, do you want to be ruled by a corporate agenda or by the freedom that America supposedly stands for.

      If the RIAA pushes too far it could become the largest cultural revolution seen in a century.

      That, plus all the tech companies dealing with this technology will move north and I'll never want for a job - there will always be a black market for time-shifting and the like equipment down south. ;)

      Instead of us whining on slashdot, we need to inform and mobilize the masses. They need to know what their rights are now and what is being done to take them away. They need to have the will to pull in the line of their government, order them on the direction to take. Maybe even get rid of the Democratics and Republicans, two parties that claim to be different but are both the same cultural poison. Come on, give Nader a chance, he has some great ideas. :)

    5. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by ballookey · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I'm just going to cut and paste from my blog this morning:

      What's next? Are you going to make Adobe Photoshop illegal? I mean, I could use Photoshop to fake legal documents - sure they've made copying currency harder, but it's a lot easier to create fake insurance documents, phony immigration papers, false birth certificates and vehicle registrations.

      But do I do any of that? NO. I use it to make a living. I use it to create works of art, which in case they forgot, is one of the things that makes human beings noble and worth anything at all.

      I'm sure that a lot of people use it for nefarious purposes. Adobe would be hard-pressed to make an application that's useful and yet could hinder people's evil plans for it. So they leave that to the user and the criminal justice system - as it should be.

      Same thing with P2P networks. They just didn't realize how very many people are willing to bend or break the law given the chance. What, they thought everyone's basically GOOD at heart? SUCKER! P2P networks are handy. They have legitimate uses. The most valuable one to me is that heretofore unknown artists can make their work available and with just a little word of mouth, garner a lot of attention and notice they wouldn't previously have had.

      And I think that, more than anything, is the crux of it. The establishment has made hoards of money and holds a lot of power based on the fact that previously it was difficult to even make a minor success of yourself. It was like the old system of banks and checking accounts. You couldn't open an account unless someone vouched for you. Similarly, before computers and the internet took over, you couldn't be a success unless someone already rich and powerful vouched for you. (Or you were extraordinarilly lucky. This wouldn't preclude talent, but any talented artist that was successful under the old system will first admit they were lucky to get there.) Frankly, it's mostly the same now, but it's changing. Bands are putting songs they can't get onto the radio on their websites. Videos MTV won't let you see are available online. I don't have to listen to KROQ's corporate-sanctioned IDEA of alternative rock - I can listen to KEXP Seattle right through my computer. Rather than wait several weeks for the "official" release, people globally can get the media they want today. I no longer get suckered into paying $16-18 for a whole CD of crap when all I wanted was one song that frankly, I'd be sick of in three weeks flat anyway. Wifey and Hubby get 10-20,000 subscribers a month and they have a nice house and take fabulous trips. Mark one for everyone.

      Early in my Internet days I realized the great thing about it was, that with a little know how, a small investment, and a few ideas, anyone could make a few bucks. Some with better ideas would make a whole lot more. Sure enough a lot of people, it turns out, were actually quite willing to take their clothes off and start inserting all manner of objects in front of a camera - if they got paid for it. Did anyone realize how many whores there were out there before it became so easy to set up a subscription site? The free market used to be such a sacred cow with the conservatives. Suddenly they've had the rose-tinted glasses removed and realized the cow's a three-input bovine and they freak out and start legislating the use of inputs.

      OK, I ramble, I get off topic. Score me a -1. But the point is, they see things getting out of control. They see their precious status-quo shaken. And rather than adapt and take this opportunity to finally and truthfully get to know their audience for the slightly-slimey and occasionally downright dirty hos they are, they freak out and start taking liberties away. They only way they can see to staunch the flow of blood is to put a tourniquet on technological advances.

      We've got to stop this crap or else we're doomed to live with Brittany Spears and her ilk forever.

    6. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, a 50 pound mackrel that happens to be frozen solid.

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    7. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by stripe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sponsers/supporters of the Bill

      Orrin G. Hatch
      Patrick J. Leahy of Vermont
      Bill Frist
      Tom Daschle
      Lindsey Graham
      Barbara Boxer

      If Ms Boxer is up for relection, I am voting for anyone that has a chance to replace her now.

    8. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Exactly. This will be just like lowering the speed limit to 55mph. Overnight virtually every driver in the country became a criminal. If this act passes, overnight virtually every VCR owner will become a criminal -- exact same situation. And it only took, what, 20+ years to repeal the 55mph national speed limit. In that 20 years cars didn't change much, but 20 years from today most VCRs will be dead (and will long since be obsolete - analog TV is supposed to die shortly after 2006), and all the (legal) digital equipment will be technically incapable of timeshifting if the broadcaster disallows it, so in 20 years repealing the INDUCE act will be moot.

      Worst case scenario, in 20 years we won't have any personal computers, because this will outlaw them as well (any general purpose computer is a potential circumvention device and therefore must be prohibited - only DRM-shackled PCs will be legal, and I wouldn't call them "general purpose" if they only do what the RIAA/MPAA want them to do).

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    9. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by rctay · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You overestimate the average voter. They'll line up and pay the man like the good sheep they are. They don't understand the argument or the technology, and don't want to. Slashdot is the fringe brother.

    10. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by SIGALRM · · Score: 2, Funny
      Yeah, a 50 pound mackrel that happens to be frozen solid
      Yep... just might work. I don't see the fishing industry anywhere on this list.
      --
      Sigs cause cancer.
    11. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by shaitand · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Media piracy helps SBC, because they sell high speed internet access."

      Not really, piraters actually utilize their high speed access. SBC just wants you to browse the web, not download. They want users who DON'T utilize their connection to the fullest, that way they can support more users on the same t1.

    12. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by silicon+not+in+the+v · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Depending on how vaguely INDUCE is termed & interpreted, (I have no idea about this.) SBC's current business practices could be considered illegal under the INDUCE act, and they may be required to change or face consequences. Dunno.
      I know that's a lovely pipe dream we would love to have--$BUSINESS/$POLITICIAN would be guilty under this act, and then that'll show 'em! The reality part is that we don't get the opportunity to do equal enforcement of crap laws like this. Even though Senator Hatch's VCR at home would become illegal, the feds are not going to take anyone seriously if they report him for having it. Overly broad laws like this are what enables a corporate state. Technically everyone is guilty, but the laws are only enforced against those without the political power.
      --
      We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
    13. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by meldroc · · Score: 2

      What's sickening is that it doesn't matter who you vote for this election - the MPAA & RIAA have bribed^H^H^H^H^H^Hcontributed to the campaign funds of both sides. Democrat, Republican, they'll both vote for this monstrosity. They've stopped listening to the little guys.

      The only hope is to challenge the constitutionality of this bill and hope the Supreme Court strikes it down.

      --

      Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
    14. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by tsg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The national 55mph speed limit was enacted to save gasoline during the oil crunch of the 70's. Once that was over, the national speed limit was only a technicality since there are no national traffic police: local cops enforced the "unofficial" local speed limit.

      Unlike this. The INDUCE Act gives the DOJ jurisdiction over prosecuting these "crimes". All it will take is a couple of otherwise innocent people being prosecuted for owning a VCR and it will be a bloody revolution.

      At the very least, the MP/RIAA are going to discover that the harder they make it for people to watch their shows and listen to their music the less people are going to do it and they will bleed themselves dry.

      --
      People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
    15. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by martissimo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      that list is scary, if the Senate Majority Leader and the Minority Leader are both for it this crap is a done deal....

    16. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by evronm · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What's next? Are you going to make Adobe Photoshop illegal?

      What about guns? As long as those are legal, it's clear that any of these laws outlawing software that could "potentially be misused are clearly hypocritical.

      - "P2P apps can be used to illegally copy music"

      - "Guns can be used to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings"

      See what I mean?

    17. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by Zynthalay · · Score: 3, Funny

      They can have my PC when they pry it from my greasy, mass market snack food covered hands! - The NCA

    18. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by killjoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's just nonsense. The only things that will become illegal will be products (and services) made by people who can't afford to bribe politicians. The rest of the industry will get exemptions for their products.

      The VCR will not be illegal, the TV will not be illegal. What will be illegal are anything made with open source and not made by a large company.

      BTW the public won't give a shit. They are frogs being slowly boiled and they don't even know. All you have to is to raise the terror level up a notch and watch them cower.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    19. Re:Powerful incentives (and interests) by ibbey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, I would like to see this pass, I would even like to see the Betamax decision overturned. Why you might ask? Because of the wakeup call it will create.

      I'm sure that lot's of pepople said the same thing about the DMCA, but here we are six years later, and the DMCA is still going strong, despite such stupid things as the DMCA being used to outlaw third party batteries & inkjet cartridges.

      The American people are way to complacent to object to simple things like losing their rights. All the RIAA has to do is somehow associate piracy with Terrorism, and Americans will be happy to give up their rights.

  2. VOTE LIBERTARIAN by WarMonkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    VOTE LIBERTARIAN

    --
    -- I could tell right away that she was impressed with my HUGE Slashdot Karma.
    1. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by ch-chuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree in theory, but in practice a vote libertarian is a vote for Bush. Just ask anybody who voted for Nader in 2000.

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    2. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by maximilln · · Score: 3, Informative

      I agree in theory, but in practice a vote libertarian is a vote for Bush

      And a vote for Kerry won't change anything either. It's a dog and pony (elephant and donkey) show. The only common theme is spending more of _YOUR_ money to add to _THEIR_ profit.

      --
      +++ATHZ 99:5:80
    3. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny, I thought it was a vote for Nader.

      People erroneously assume that Nader supporters actually want the Democratic candidate to win, and are just (apparently) really confused. What I see is that the Democratic party so poorly represents Nader's followers that they can't even woo them away in the face of certain failure.

      What the Democrats are saying when they want Nader out of the race is, "We wish no one would represent you freaks so that we would be the least of all evils on the ballot." I find it kind of hard to sympathize with that sentiment.

      Here is my outlook: the republicans claim that if they get in office, they will destroy my government, take most of my money, and destroy my freedoms. The democrats claim that if they get in, they will destroy my government, take most of my money, and destroy my freedoms (though by different methods! Yippee!).

      Best of all, I get told that if I don't vote or vote for a third-party candidate, that I am throwing my vote away and *thus can't complain!* Sorry, but I'm going to vote for the party that won't destroy myself or my country.

      It's like if one candidate said he would shoot you in the right knee, another said in the left knee, and a third said he wouldn't shoot you at all. Even if the third had no chance of winning, I can't see the advantage of voting for anyone else. They'll both blow your freakin' kneecaps off!

    4. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And a vote for Kerry won't change anything either. It's a dog and pony (elephant and donkey) show. The only common theme is spending more of _YOUR_ money to add to _THEIR_ profit.

      Yeah because Kerry is going to invade a country that never attacked us while repealing 30 years of progress on environmental laws and giving massive tax cuts to the rich.

      Sure the Democrats have their problems (Patriot Act anyone? DCMA?) and they are almost as cozy with big business as the Republicans are but to say they are as bad as the Republicans is truly crazy. Do you really think we'd be where we are (Iraqi quagmire with the entire free World hating our guts) if Gore had gotten elected (or should I say if Bush hadn't gotten appointed)?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by irokitt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not a libertarian, but I think you should vote for what you believe in. Voting for a candidate because they're more likely to win is kind of like voting for what everyone else believes in.

      --
      If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    6. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Just ask anybody who voted for Nader in 2000.
      Spoken like someone who has already forgotten what happened in 2000. Tens of thousands of Nader followers decided to get clever and vote for a candidate they disagreed with because they disliked Bush more. The result: Nader had a poorer showing than he might have had, and Bush still won.

      Besides which, it's patently false that a libertarian vote is a "vote for Bush." There are quite a few people that would probably vote republican if they couldn't vote libertarian.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    7. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by cheezedawg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah because Kerry is going to invade a country that never attacked us

      Germany never attacked us- should we have waited to go to war with them? Oh, and Iraq did attack us almost every day between 1991 and 2002.

      giving massive tax cuts to the rich.

      Everybody that pays taxes got a tax cut. The only reason the rich got a "massive" tax cut is because they pay a massive amount of taxes.

      Iraqi quagmire

      The liberation of Iraq has been one of the most stunningly successful military compaigns ever. I was going to ask what possible motivations you could have to call it a quagmire, but I think we both know the answer to that...

      with the entire free World hating our guts

      So, you like to exaggerate, eh?

      or should I say if Bush hadn't gotten appointed

      No, you shouldn't say that.

      --
      "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
    8. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by Izago909 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yeah because Kerry is going to invade a country that never attacked us
      Germany never attacked us- should we have waited to go to war with them? Oh, and Iraq did attack us almost every day between 1991 and 2002.
      So you are comparing the actions of Nazi Germany to Saddam? I don't recall Saddam taking over the entire Middle East like Hitler took over all of Europe (save England and Spain). And KNOW you can be ignorant enough to compare the Holocaust to Saddam's purges. I mean that would just be stupid. Also, can you please reference exactly where and when he attacked us almost daily.
      giving massive tax cuts to the rich.
      Everybody that pays taxes got a tax cut. The only reason the rich got a "massive" tax cut is because they pay a massive amount of taxes.
      So it's OK for 1% of the population to control over 90% of its wealth? That's not democracy, that's unregulated business gone crazy. Tell me, what can an individual do with $10 billion that he can't do with $1 billion. Money is power. Just because someone is rich shouldn't make their existence more meaningful than mine, but to politicians the person with more money has a louder voice.
      Iraqi quagmire
      The liberation of Iraq has been one of the most stunningly successful military compaigns ever. I was going to ask what possible motivations you could have to call it a quagmire, but I think we both know the answer to that...
      And when we installed "democracy" in South America to stop Communism we called it a success too. Now look how peaceful and uncorrupted their governments are. Lest wait a few years before we declare unconditional success. If Iraq collapses in a few years... well, FUBAR. Enter more terrorists generated by harsh conditions which will be blamed on us.
      with the entire free World hating our guts
      So, you like to exaggerate, eh?
      "Entire" and "hating" may be exaggerations. It should be "the alienation of some of our historically strongest and staunchest allies." To be fair, you have exaggerated quite a bit too.
      or should I say if Bush hadn't gotten appointed
      No, you shouldn't say that.
      That's very true. Even though he was appointed by the Supreme Court, Gore should be blamed for giving up his challenges.
    9. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by killjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Oh, and Iraq did attack us almost every day between 1991 and 2002."

      Yes. I remember all those iraqi airplanes flying overhead dropping bombs on my town. Who can foget the awful sight of iraqi tanks rolling down wall street firing at churches and apartment complexes. What a horror that was. Finally there is the image of iraqi soldiers walking from house to house dragging people away from their houses to go lock them up in distant prisons while the women and children were left sobbing in horror.

      Thank god bush fought the iraqi army back.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    10. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by DragonMagic · · Score: 4, Informative

      Germany never attacked us, but Japan did.

      And Germany was allied with Japan, and vice versa, which just made Germany an equal enemy.

      Don't forget, Japan and Germany had a pact together through World War II. This is why we went to war with Germany.

      --

      Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
    11. Re:VOTE LIBERTARIAN by imnojezus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, and there's that little thing where Germany DECLARED WAR on us two days after Pearl Harbor. Oh yeah and that other thing where they took over most of Europe and showed no interest at stopping there. Saddam was annoying...but there's not much proof of him being a threat to anyone but his own people. Some argue that that alone is good enough reason to go to war, and maybe so. But under the circumstances we were under at the time, we were hardly in the position to dive in and save Iraqis from themselves.

  3. Flip, flop by Ryu2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Funny, I remember Orrin Hatch was actually a SUPPORTER of the original P2P Napster, to the extent that he actually put some of his own amateur works on there.

    See, for instance here

    Why the change of heart? I guess sticking to one's original convictions is too much to ask.

    --
    There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
    1. Re:Flip, flop by the_mad_poster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And John Kerry has..... what... exactly... to do with this?

      "Flip flopping" is just a label that arrogant people who can't think for themselves pin on people who admit a mistake and change their position. Apparently, in modern America, it's more important to stubbornly plod along a known destructive path than to turn around and try to get off of it. Whether this applies to Hatch or not, I couldn't say, because, frankly, I don't think he has any convictions. He's just another one of the many politicians that moves in whichever direction the wind blows since that's most convenient for his political career.

      --
      Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
    2. Re:Flip, flop by admiralh · · Score: 2, Funny

      Personally, I can't stand flip-floppers. I mean, look at Stephen Hawking. He flip-flopped on this whole idea of information coming out of black holes! Obviously he's someone without strength of character who simply cannot be trusted to make a decision and stick to it.

      I'll never believe another thing Hawking says ever again.

      --
      Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.
    3. Re:Flip, flop by Grym · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ""Flip flopping" is just a label that arrogant people who can't think for themselves pin on people who admit a mistake and change their position.

      Admitting a mistake is acceptable. In fact, I can respect that, but flip-flopping is something entirely different because most just try to slip the change in to their platform unnoticed. Watch, you won't see Orin Hatch (or John Kerry, for that matter) apologize or retract any previous statements even if they are "seemingly" contradictory.

      Flip-flopping, for politicians is usually a sign that they follow the polls, and have no concern for the actual public good. Right or wrong, here's the mentality: "If 52% of Americans want me to say this, then that's what I'll say, and if next week, the polls show something different, then I'll say it too, because the public is too stupid to remember I'm contradicting myself. If worse comes to worse, I can always ride the wave of mediocracy and soft-money into reelection."

      THAT'S why the American public hates flip-flopping. We like our politics simple. (Sometimes a little too simple. President Bush's "You're either with us or against us." comes to mind.) It's not that we prefer to have a stubbon, principled politician. It's that we DON'T want a self-serving weasel in office.

      -Grym

  4. This is GREAT NEWS by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I find that I spend far too much time watching television, and listening to music. With the pain in the ass regulations that are going up, I can finally dump my satellite dish, DVD player, television, and TiVo. Without all that crap, I can finally get some programming done.

    And just in case they come for my computer, I'm stockpiling schematics, a 68000 microprocessor, 16 megs of memory, and a hard drive. If my PC won't let me run untrusted software, then I'll fucking build my own.

    Screw the content Nazis. I don't fucking need them, but they need my money.

    --
    Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
  5. This is getting out of control by minorthreatbmxxx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As much as I agree with the RIAA that piracy is wrong and should be stopped, things are getting ridiculous. Corporations shouldn't have this much power in government. This is supposed to be a government by the people, for the people, but is now controlled by the corporations...

    --
    Free iPod!eBay o
    1. Re:This is getting out of control by antiMStroll · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This kind of legislation is horrifying. Jackasses like Hatch are basically selling RIAA an exclusive, protected license to make money by drastically curtailing the freedom to move information (but not, apparently, the freedom to move money into his pocket.) The brazen attitude is what really sends chills down my spine, bought Senators aren't even making an effort at an appearance of balance, he's advocating for the rubber stamping of legislation written by special interest corporations making huge segments of the general population criminals. There's a special place in hell for his kind and I wish him god's speed in his journey.

    2. Re:This is getting out of control by svallarian · · Score: 2, Informative

      Fine.
      Do the following.

      1. Get of your ass and write your senator / Congressmen

      2. Vote the bums out.

      Simple.

      Steven V>

      --
      I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."
    3. Re:This is getting out of control by rabel · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's called fascism

      Read up on it!

    4. Re:This is getting out of control by JivanMukti · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well said. This is why I've become a proponent of laissez-faire economics. Something I learned recently is that the U.S.A. at the end of the 19th century had a free-market policy. J.P. Morgan and his contemporaries had setup cartels several times in an attempt to monopolize rail and other industries. The cartels always fell apart because of competition. So they lobbied the gov't for regulations that would stifle new competition but ultimately help those companies already established. All under the guise of being "pro-worker" and "anti-monopoly". It worked.

      Sounds familiar. The *IAA cartels have/are doing the same thing. We need separation of markets and state.

    5. Re:This is getting out of control by servognome · · Score: 2, Informative

      At the end of the 19th century people were also endured far worse working conditions. You think your cubicle is bad? Read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair, it tells what unregulated companies can do.
      Goverment regulation does have its place, but it's the responsibility of the people to keep goverment in check. You have to write your congressperson to give them your input, if they don't listen vote them out.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    6. Re:This is getting out of control by kcbrown · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Fine. Do the following.

      1. Get of your ass and write your senator / Congressmen

      2. Vote the bums out.

      Simple.

      And completely ineffective.

      Vote them out to be replaced by whom? The only people who have any chance of being elected are those who get media exposure. The media is owned by a small number of very large corporations -- the very same corporations that are behind this bill to begin with. If you want to have the slightest chance of being elected, you have to do what the corporations want. Fail, and you'll either be ignored or you'll get a lot of bad press (like Dean did -- do you really think the "screaming madman" impression the media gives of him was even close to being an accurate and fair picture of him?). Either way, you won't be elected, because people won't elect someone they don't know about or who they think is a loser, and they get all that information primarily from the media.

      No, sorry, this is a rigged game, and there's no way out.

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
  6. Question by strike2867 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Does someone have a list of Senators currenty in favor of the act. They need to be urgently sto^H^H^H replaced.

    --

    Vote for new mod!!! Score:-2,Imbecile
    1. Re:Question by krazo · · Score: 2, Interesting
      There should be a web page where for any legislator you could find out:
      • Which bills they proposed
      • Which bills they voted for and against
      • Which committees they are on
      • Other information like that which I can't think of right now

      It could be cross-referenced by bill too. So, you could see who voted for and against which bills. You could see things like partisanship, who was most likely to vote against his party, etc., etc. Maybe it could be linked to campaign finance records too so we could see whose pocket everyone is in. I know the information is all public domain, but I don't know of any simple way to access it.

      Does anyone know of a site that does anything like this? I think it would go a long way towards making actions of congress more transparent and maybe forcing a little more accountability on legislators (by having their voting records very easily accessible and understandable for the public.)
    2. Re:Question by Armethius · · Score: 3, Informative

      Cosponsors of the bill include: Bill Frist (majority leader) Tom Daschle (minority leader) Hatch (chairman of the judiciary committee) Leahy (ranking member of the judiciary committee

    3. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I can tell you that I most certainly will NOT be reelecting Debbie Stabenow this comming election, who is co-sponsoring INDUCE. Take a look at the list of INDUCE's Co-sponsors to see if there's anyone you're going to help vote out this fall in YOUR state.

    4. Re:Question by david_reese · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Form letter, but the EFF will fax or email it for free to your reps.

      Someone mod this guy way up!.. with the anthrax scare, written letters are ignored by your legislators, and emails can easily be /dev/null'd. Faxes are they way to get a response, and the EFF rules for giving a free way to do that!

    5. Re:Question by bezuwork's+friend · · Score: 2, Informative
      Just my 2 cents. I was in a class last semester with a few staffers. I made it a point to ask the best way to indicate preferences to representatives or senators. They all said that it doesn't matter - snail mail, email, fax, calling - they just tally it up.

      It seems that a detailed letter is not even required. Clearly state your address, so that they know you are someone who can re-elect them, keep each correspondence to one issue, state your preference that your representative/senator support or not support it. Maybe one sentence of your reasons to ensure that and the terms support/not support aren't misread and maybe one that states you intend to follow the voting as you are very interested in the issue.

      Unless you have an amazing insight or take on the issue that you can't resist writing about, I would think any other thing you write would be ignored.

  7. Why does the RIAA have such a strong voice? by yeremein · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Consider this...
    More than 40 trade associations and advocacy groups voiced similar sentiments in a letter to senators July 6. The Induce Act "would chill innovation and drive investment in technology" overseas, said the letter, signed by CNET Networks, eBay, Google, Intel, MCI, TiVo, Verizon Communications, Sun Microsystems and Yahoo.

    This measure is supported by the RIAA but opposed by the tech industry at large. Why does Congress let the tail wag the dog when it comes to copyright legislation? Does Intel just not give enough money to politicians?

    1. Re:Why does the RIAA have such a strong voice? by Kenja · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "Why does the RIAA have such a strong voice?"

      Because they're out there talking to law makers while we sit around at home eating pizzia and watching TV?

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  8. I hope is passes by DigiShaman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Because it will take bills like this to reach rock-bottom before the public wakes up. Only then can we get rid of the bill and the RIAA.

    FUCK IT, PASS THE FUCKING BILL. Jesus....*sigh*

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  9. Not only a repost, a non-issue. by c0dedude · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hatch introduces these radical bills all the time. This one is Pre-committee [loc.gov]. Nothing to see here folks, move along. Eventually the computer industry will step in and say this is crazy.

    Here's the way a bill is normally passed. This one is about at step 2 1/2.
    1. A senator and a member of the house get togather and write a bill.
    2. They drop it in their respective drop boxes, and GPO prints it up.
    3. The rules committee send it to committees for review.
    4. Subcommitees tell their committees whether they want a hearing on it.
    5. Hearings are held, and each bill is modified.
    6. Assuming the bill doesn't die in Committee, and most of them do, it goes to the rules committee for the Senate and the House. A lot of them die this way, too.
    7. The rules committee schedules a vote. If they don't, time passes, Congress adjourns, bill dies.
    8. Both the House and Senate vote. If one doesn't support the bill, bill dies. These are timed votes, and if you can't get a majority within about 15 minutes (usually) that's it.
    9. Assuming all of the above has occured, you get a conference committee of Representitives and Senators who will hammer out a comprimise between the House and Senate versions. If they can't agree, it dies.
    10. Then the President can sign or veto. If he vetos, or refuses to act in 10 days (Pocket Veto), the bill dies UNLESS 2/3 of the House and Senate vote to override it. This rarely (in less than 1/10th of vetoes) occurs. If they don't, the bill dies.

    All of this has to occur in about 5 1/2 months. I don't think this one will get the fasttrack, and I certainly don't think the House will ever pass it.

    --
    Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
    1. Re:Not only a repost, a non-issue. by bloggins02 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just out of curiosity, at which of those 10 stages are we permitted to start worrying?

  10. Tivo TV, or no TV by AIX-Hood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I and 500 of my closest friends have Tivo style television watching entrenched in our way of doing things that if it were taken away, we'd probably just stop watching it altogether.

  11. I wrote to my Senator by neonfrog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    (here is the letter I sent, misspellings intact)

    Dear Senator Leahy:

    I would like to express my concerns over the fomerly entitled INDUCE act.

    I have read your statement, but cannot reconcile an important point.

    If a technology company wishes to make a tool, and induce folk to use it, expressly for sharing copies of works where the copyright has been freely released (my own writings, for example, that I may wish to share with the world for no profit) then that company might not feel it can create such a tool because of the possibility of it being interpreted as an inducement to infringe upon copyright.

    I interpret our founding fathers' ideas behind copyright law this way: the more works that are created and shared, the better the world will be. If you create then you alone should be able to profit from your creation, if you so desire, but only for a certain amount of time after which further profit can only be had by creating new works. Copyright serves two purposes: to inspire you to create again and again and, ultimatley, to pass your previous creations into public property where they can be freely copied, thus insuring their preservation for the betterment of all mankind. They carefully crafted those laws with the goals of incenting artists to continue to create works and ultimately preserving those works' societal value forever.

    I feel that the internet has provided a distribution vector never conceived before that meets those goals perfectly. Rather than being incented by profit, a corporate goal, many new and important works are being created and freely distributed simply for the betterment of mankind (as well as possible widespread fame or recognition), a societal goal. I submit to you the incredibly valuable Wikipedia.org.

    In the past, when copying was limited by technology, an artist had no vector for distributing their works that wasn't corporate -- world-wide distribution simply was not available to the common man due to the tremendous economic hurdles of replication and transportation. Nowadays I, a simple native Vermonter, have an opportunity to share works with my world peers, far-flung and next door, and enjoy their works shared straight to me, without the burden of a cumbersome distribution model. I am hugely incented to create more and share it with humanity. This tremendous incentive never existed before.

    Presenting legislation that could be used to stifle technology or activities that induce sharing of freely created works, simply because such could be used to copy works that authors choose to control, would directly contradict the spirit under which copyright law was originally established. Perhaps your response would be that this is not the intent of the law, but I believe that media corporations would try to bend this tool to further their own profits regardless of the impact on freely available works created for society's benefit. There's a reason why libraries are well-represented in the letter you recently received from the EFF!

    Thank you for your time and attention, and for your continued work in the Senate.

    Sincerely,

    --

    I'm thinking about it, therefore I might be.

  12. Honestly, I hope this passes by TheHonestTruth · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Maybe once America (the majority that is) can no longer record/TiVo COPS or Jerry Springer reruns without personally asking a Fox customer service rep each time they want to do so, they'll wake the hell up to all the bullshit big media companies are pulling in DC. I hope this passes and people realize that they've been asleep at the democratic wheel and vote every Senator (D) for Disney, (R) for RIAA out of office.

    Or better yet, we'll realize that we watch too much TV anyway and start reading some damn books again.

    -truth

    --

    I had a steady B+ in my AI class until I failed the Turing test...

    1. Re:Honestly, I hope this passes by maximilln · · Score: 3, Insightful

      without personally asking a Fox customer service rep each time they want to do so, they'll wake the hell up to all the bullshit big media companies are pulling in DC. I hope this passes and people realize that they've been asleep at the democratic wheel

      People already have this experience in that most commercial ISPs include, in their AUP, clauses which make it grounds for termination to use in-house routers and switches. Everyone does it but, technically speaking, you're not supposed to.

      It seems that in today's world the issue isn't about being a criminal or not. Everyone is, by default, a criminal at any given time. The issue is which people are more likely to be targeted as victims of a law enforcement system gone haywire.

      --
      +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  13. scrapping the Betamax decision by Threni · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > she proposed scrapping the Betamax decision, which makes it legal to timeshift
    > TV shows with a VCR. Analysis here."

    Perhaps you can write to your politicos, suggesting that a law which would have made every single VCR owner a criminal isn't really a very good idea.

  14. I no longer care by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My government officials are hell bent on making me a criminal then so be it.

    Every direction I turn I see something that I do in my daily life that uses technology to make things more fun or convienient are put up as "evil" and neede to be made illegal. I give up, I'll be happy to live in the underground as a criminal. These ultra rich senators and represenatives have no clue as to what the real world is and do not give a rat's ass about one single citizen.

    unless a mobilization of the american public to scream loud and clear to these out-of-touch fools in the government our desires nothing will change and everyting will get worse.

    I strongly suggest that every technically adept person learn how to do things secretly and quietly. Making sure their technology is hidden from the police because what you do today will become illegal and more than likely have a harsher punishment than cold-blooded murder.

    I laugh when people sell things like this to conceal what they are carrying. But it looks like it will be required in the future to listen to music or carry anything technological that is not "approved".

    certianly makes you disgusted. men like Senator Hatch in congress are like people stopping to piss on the constitution... they are an embarassment and abomination to what america was.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  15. Time to send a message . . . by harley_frog · · Score: 5, Informative

    To your Senators.

    --
    It's all fun and games until someone loses the key to the handcuffs.
  16. Amtrak analogy? by nucal · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Aside from the government connection - I fail to see how the Induce act is anything similar. The US Government actually runs Amtrak as a quasi-independent business (much the way the US Postal Service is run). The Induce act is meant to put a set of regulations in place, not run record companies.

    What I find interesting is that the current administration is perfectly happy to regulate the behavior of regular citizens, while allowing unregulated and irresponsible corporate behavior ...

  17. wonder how he'd feel .... by scud80 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    about holding weapons manufacturers liable for deaths using their products. he should have his brain scanned for malware.

  18. Human Memory Soon to Be Banned by lofi-rev · · Score: 3, Funny

    Recollection becomes an "unauthorized derivative work", talking becomes "piracy." Forget Fahrenheit 9/11, the real danger is Fahrenheit 451.

  19. The "reasonable person" standard. by anonymous+cowherd+(m · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Quoting the Act itself:

    In this subsection, the term `intentionally induces' means intentionally aids, abets, induces, or procures, and intent may be shown by acts from which a reasonable person would find intent to induce infringement based upon all relevant information about such acts then reasonably available to the actor, including whether the activity relies on infringement for its commercial viability.

    (Italics mine)

    The problem here is that "reasonable people" are rarely reasonable.

    Doh, didn't mean to post this as AC.

    --
    http://neokosmos.blogsome.com
  20. Google Search: Orrin Hatch insane by mikeophile · · Score: 4, Funny

    Results 1 - 10 of about 2,850 for Orrin Hatch insane. (0.13 seconds)

  21. Re:The sky is falling by maximilln · · Score: 2, Insightful

    if you sell something with the intent

    So this is blatant evidence of political graft with wealthy individuals? Apple obviously intends for its media players to only be used for legal purposes. Mike Entrepeneur, who doesn't contribute strongly to political campaigns, obviously intends for his media players to be used to distribute pirated works.

    Proprietary software vendors who produce media playback software obviously intend for their software to only be used to play properly licensed material. Open source media players are obviously intended to play primarily pirated material.

    A proprietary software vendor who writes a network filesystem obviously intends for only properly licensed material to be exchanged. Open source distributed network filesystems are obviously intended to violate copyright rules.

    --
    +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  22. Re:Proportional Representation by antarctican · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Try to get proportional representation up so everyone has a voice.

    How the hell do you do PR on a presidential election? Each candidate gets a percentage of the Whitehouse?

    For the presidential election two changes would improve the system. First, get rid of the electoral college, make it pure nation wide numbers. And second, single transferable vote, instant runoff voting, whichever name you might call it - that would take away the "a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush" argument. You could vote for Nader, but at the same time vote for Kerry. And maybe once people catch on a bit more, Nader might even win! Yay for America! :)

  23. Don't vote Libertarian by 0x0d0a · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And a vote for Kerry won't change anything either.

    Wrong.

    First, Kerry's and Bush's ideals *do* differ. Both Republican and Democrat parties are fairly right-wing when it comes to global comparisons, but claiming that they are identical is ridiculous.

    Second, voters are very unlikely to go from Republican to Libertarian. In general, Libertarians compete with votes mostly with Democrats, and will absolutely not beat the Democrats in the immediate future -- there are not enough Libertarians out there. The best way for Libertarians to get a vote is for Democrats to have a large, secure majority over the Republicans -- at that point, Democrat voters that are dissatisfied with Democrat policies will feel safe voting Libertarian, and Libertarians will begin siphoning off votes, and working their way up to becoming a major third party.

    Third, there is a particularly disagreeable type of person noisily advocating Libertarian voting at this point -- Republicans who do not believe that they can get any centrist voters, and are trying to convince people sitting on the line between Libertarian and Democrat to vote Libertarian, as Libertarian is not a threat to them. The Republican party is already in hot water in two different states for funding and backing Nader to try to weaken the Democrat vote. I am not saying that you are such a person, but there is no way for us to know that this is the case.

    I understand that you want to vote based on pure ideals, however, the voting system is not a mechanism to make philosophical claims. It is a system to place the next set of officials in office. If your vote does nothing, you have simply thrown your vote away. That is not because people are operating badly; it is because the voting system in the United States is not structured in such a way that is conducive to many parties. The real fix would be to move to preferential voting (personally, I'd like to see the electoral college go away at the same point in time) or another voting system that doesn't discriminate as harshly against slightly smaller parties. The problem is that the people in office have little incentive to change the voting system to something that favors the little guy. Again, I think that the best fix for this, if you really believe in Libertarian principles, is to ensure that the Democrat majority is large enough, siphon off enough votes to win smaller elections and begin pressure, using these elected officials, for voting reform. That really needs to be pushed through for a third party to be in place. Once that happens, the Libertarian party has a decent ground to stand on. Yes, that's a lot of work, and it's a way off, but to do otherwise, to imagine that the Libertarian vote is going to beat Bush, is just wishful thinking.

    1. Re:Don't vote Libertarian by cpeterso · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Is a dyed in the wool big spender who'll only grow the government

      but Bush's Republican white house and Republican congress have increased defense and non-defense spending WAY MORE than Clinton did in his eight years. A Republican congress can't say no to a Repubulican president (and vice versa). But do you think a Republican congress would let a Democratic president pay spending increases? NO WAY! Political deadlock is the ONLY viable (short term) solution for liberty-minded voters. :\

  24. Down with entertainment! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have been doing something interesting for a long time: eliminating "entertainment" from my life. I have eliminated television, most computer games, and other useless timesinks. Instead, I spend my time reading about real topics of interest, working on projects, and socializing with real people.

    Guess what folks?

    I am still alive. In fact, my quality of life has largely improved since I did this. A little bit (and I do mean a *little bit*) of entertainment is ok. The problem is that our culture is addicted to mass entertainment as an opiate. Put it away. Turn off the TV. Go out with your friends or work on something worthwhile instead. Get yourself off the hollywood crack.

    P2P piracy is just a way to get your crack cheap and prolong your addiction. I deleted my P2P crap as well.

    The great growth of civilization that we've seen in the last several hundred years is a result of a tremendous pooling of human talent and a tremendous outpouring of productive work. The removal of extreme religiosity as an opiate combined with the emergence of a strong "work ethic" drove the enlightenment. Hollywood is a new opiate for the masses and has largely replaced religion as a useless mental distraction and timesink. As such, hollywood is soaking up time that could be spent socializing, experiencing, and doing. In other words, these opiates soak up productive time.

    A myth perpetuated ruthlessly by the entertainment industry is that you need "rest" from your "work." If you feel this way, it probably means that your "work" is something that you do not enjoy doing and herein lies the problem. You should enjoy your work.

    I also believe in something that I call "productive recreation." Productive recreation is when you do things like socialize with friends, travel, study, or engage in hobbies. These things give you knowledge and experience. These are the root of creativity and the growth of the mind and soul. Shrink-wrapped entertainment gives you neither knowledge nor experience. It is a time sink that rots the mind.

    I think it is time for an anti-entertainment movement and a simultaneous revival of two things: a life revolving around direct personal experience and a work ethic. Work hard, play hard, and experience reality. Turn off your TV and get the f*ck off the couch.

    However, I do still have one guilty pleasure. I still read slashdot. :)

  25. essential liberties by PMuse · · Score: 2, Insightful

    According to the article, "Nobody wants to undermine the iPod [but] We have to understand that some people use P2P technology in ways that are wrong and illegal." -- Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt)

    Some days, don't you just wish that the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution read, "A well regulated public domain being necessary to the happiness and liberty of a free People, the right of the people to keep and hear music shall not be infringed." How is it that guns are an essential liberty, but iPods are so dangerous that they must be outlawed?

    --
    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
    1. Re:essential liberties by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How is it that guns are an essential liberty, but iPods are so dangerous that they must be outlawed?

      Our freedom of speech and right bear arms is to protect us from tyranical powers of government.

      Maybe its time to exercise our rights.

    2. Re:essential liberties by steveha · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How is it that guns are an essential liberty, but iPods are so dangerous that they must be outlawed?

      Because guns can be used to keep someone from killing you, and guns can be used (in the last extreme) to fight a government that can no longer be fought "within the system".

      It's hard to exercise your freedoms when you are dead, and guns can help prevent death. They can be abused, just as free speech can be abused (a few restrictions on the free speech rights of Jim Jones might have saved his followers, for example). For that matter, gasoline can be abused (the worst mass murder I can recall was when someone used gasoline to burn down a crowded night club with hundreds of people inside it) but you seldom hear people calling for a ban on gasoline, strict liability for gas stations, etc.

      The First and Second Amendments are, coincidentally enough, the two most important of the Bill of Rights. The right to free speech helps keep the political process healthy, and guns in the hands of citizens are the ultimate check on the power of government.

      iPods are nice, but they hardly represent a crucial freedom.

      steveha

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  26. There is a major dirty open secret here by ShatteredDream · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Congress first of all doesn't particularly care about drafting laws that actually benefit copyright holders in general, rather they care about protecting the interests of the big donors and their pet causes. The DMCA's anti-circumvention statute actually hurts smaller businesses by cutting out "consumer reports" style reviews of DRM systems. Losing 25% of one's potential sales to piracy hurts a small copyright holder significantly more than a large one. In fact, it could make the difference between having a day job and being able to get better at one's creative endeavor.

    Hatch has been steadily earning the name "RINO" in conservative circles for his "Republican In Name Only" politics. The RP may not be too conservative, but he's a flaming statist if there ever were one in the Senate. It's also alarming to see many self-proclaimed capitalists support this measure, as IPCentral, a capitalist IP blog and Motley Fool seem to think that INDUCE is common sense. Of course, IPCentral didn't have trackback enabled so I had to email a rebuttal to some of their arugments.

    At this point I just don't understand the record labels. Why don't they push hard to get people buying on iTunes so that they can turn digital distribution into an even bigger cashcow? They seem to be convinced of the "justice" of their cause, so much so that they'd rather be dead right than wrong alive.

    I don't even need to boycotte them anymore because Century Media and Projekt make most of my favorite music now. Lacuna Coil, a fast rising goth metal band that stole the show at Ozzfest 2004, is signed to CM, which is not affiliated with the RIAA according to the RIAA Radar. This is the future, people. Labels like Century Media know the writing is on the wall, and that being a member of the RIAA is as socially acceptable in the 21st century as declaring you're down with people who gas Jews and lynch black people for fun.

    1. Re:There is a major dirty open secret here by DarkSarin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's odd--at one point I had some respect for Sen. Hatch.

      That has gone away. I wish all politicians would see this: STAY AWAY FROM MY FREEDOMS! This is the reason that I am more and more disgusted with the two-party system: they are both into increasing the power of the federal gov't. I am not. End of story

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
  27. Stupidity Breeds Freedom by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Proposed Timeline: BetamaX decision is overturned. VCR's, Tivo's, and all manner of electronic gizmo are now rendered illegal. The MPAA, RIAA, and their cohorts will crack down on a select few people to make an example of them. For once, a legal battle fought on the grounds of COMMON SENSE will be won in court, but probaby be overturned by judges and/or congressmen or whoever decide these things (I'm Canadian) who have all recently bought huge new boats and houses with their big anonymous donations. Maybe, just maybe, at this point, Americans will wake up and suddenly realize that their country is being run by a band of brain-dead monkeys who don't give a rip about you, your job, your dreams or your future. Of course, it could also go the other way with the final vestigal organs of independent thought being wiped out forever, or fleeing to neighboring countries. Either way, it'll stop all this arguing.

    --
    I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
    1. Re:Stupidity Breeds Freedom by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2, Informative

      Americans have been bred and trained to be "asleep" for 8 generations or more. Ever wonder how the unions ever came to be? Lord forbid that they didn't exist, and someone was trying to unionize now... it would be impossible. I wondered, then I realized people 100 years ago were different than you and I. Back then, they had wills. Ours have been erased. Oh well, the unions were co-opted long ago, and are worthless.

      This book (online ebook) deals with the situation from a different angle, and much of what he says pertaining to our own discussion is tangential to our own. Don't read it if you are depressed easily.

  28. Re:And here is his response by dafz1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While they have good intentions(like the Burton snowboard issue), senators don't seem to realize, like the PATRIOT act, the potential for abuse. This act gives the RIAA and the MPAA, and their lawyers, free rein over current and developing technologies. "We don't like (insert technology here), so we will say it induces infringement." Those with the most to gain make the rules. This is EXACTLY why the BetaMax ruling should NEVER be overturned.

    My favorite part is "Our experience with patent law shows us that such provisions work: over the years, the number of patents has steadily grown and patent-related industries continue to thrive." Yep, people like Teleshuttle Technolgies and MercExchange make the economy so much stronger. At least for their lawyers.

  29. VCR won't become illegal by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If I were one of the evil overlords working on this, I would handle it by writing in weird exceptions. Grandfather the VCR in. That way, they can outlaw the VCR in principle and prevent future products that do essentially the same thing from becoming mainstream, but not actually outlaw the VCR specifically. That way, you avoid inciting outrage in the sleeping masses.

    It's a general principle you'll see all the time: screw the future, but don't make too many people mad right now.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  30. Re:Proportional Representation by antarctican · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The other thing I'd like to see, is the ability to vote for different people to represent me on different subjects since, for example, I tend to side with Republicans on gun control issues but with Democrats on abortion and foreign policy. Imagine being able to vote for person A to represent you on education, person B on the military, person C on foreign affairs, person D on budgets, ...

    That is exactly what my party here in BC is pushing for, not having to take the "package deal" when it comes to policies. In addition to this, stoping the "bait and switch" we see with election platforms so often.

    Give the people a direct voice on the issues. Our current system was designed from the days when you didn't know what was happening in the town on the other side of the mountain, let alone the other side of the country. When towns became the size where you couldn't gather everyone in the town square to vote on an issue. So we had to send a representative to a central location to speak for us.

    Technology is changing this, we (at least up here) have a highly educated population, computers are cheap, networking is cheap. We can create a system where to get to pick the policies you want, a la carte as we've heard about in the cable debate down south. If I want fiscal conservatism, why should I have to vote for the party that also would create socially conservative laws that limit freedoms?

    A better way is possible. Actually, check out Liquid Democracy, it's a system that has really gotten my attention as a possible alternative.

    (and I know all the paranoid slashdotters are going to rag on me about how computers can be compromised, electronic voting can't be trusted, yadda yadda.... it can if done correctly, we trust bank machine networks...)

  31. Re:The sky is falling by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 2, Insightful
    And no prosecutor, corporate attorney, judge, or jury would ever decide that some bloke had really intended to induce piracy when he was just developing a new gadget or program that made it easier to copy stuff. I mean, when VCRs came out was it really obvious that they weren't intended to promote copyright violations?

    We have a legal system that has, for over 200 years, been determining just this kind of thing. I see no reason to believe that it will suddenly completely break down if asked to determine intent in this situation.

  32. Ubiquity sells by Proc6 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Digital media is fun right now, CDs and DVDs combined with MP3s and MPEGs, iPods, notebooks and portable DVD players abound and the synergy between the outright paid for content and the "shared" content keeps them both going.

    It has to be the ubiquity and fun, because it sure as hell isn't talent.

    So once they drop the axe on PVRs, VCRs, MP3 players, any type of recording, sharing or portable media devices that don't require retinal scans and call in activation. Once this new "Digital Lifestyle" becomes an expensive burden, they will start to lose money.

    I buy CDs, usually most the songs suck, but theres a few on there. I know I can just rip the CD, toss it in the closet (or garbage), move it around from PC to notebook to MP3 player at will. It probably wasn't worth the $12 for the talent, but oh well its fun and easy. The first CD I physically can't rip/move or that requires me to call some 800 number to activate - seriously - people will start examining the value and quality of the content first and the impulse buys will drop. It becomes a hassle to enjoy the digital lifestyle so people will only put money in the things they're really really serious about, and that will impact sales a lot.

    --

    I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!

  33. You like the electoral college? I don't. by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Take away the electoral college and you take away the only thing keeping your over-populated metropolises fed.

    You should be made aware that the electoral college is already population-based. California, for instance, has many, many more votes than North Dakota does.

    The issues that people have with the electoral college focus around the fact that it is only a rough-grained representation of what people want. For example, by Gerrymandering (redrawing voting districs for political advantage), one can isolate all the people that feel strongly about one issue in a single district, and limit their influence to one vote, leaving remaining districts to be narrow victories for the other side.

    The main reasons people support the electoral college at all are logisticial issues that I largely now see as solved. It can reduce the cost of recounts by localizing disputes, and speed up the amount of time until the results from voting are in.

    Other political effects -- it tends to reduct the impact of physical areas that overwhelmingly feel strongly about something. This tends to blunt the political impact of, say, Mormons in Utah, since Utah has as much clout as a bunch of people in New York, which might somewhat favor abortions but not be screaming and raving about it like the Mormons.

    Theoretically, the representative elected in an electoral college does *not* have to follow the vote of the people that he is representing (a rather disturbing thought to many people, including me). It has only happened a handful of times; perhaps ten electors have disregarded the wishes of the people they represented over the history of the United States, but it can happen.

  34. I agree about US preferences by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but I think we're blaming the wrong guy.

    Bush is a huge flipper. Sure, he sticks to (bad) decisions like glue, but when there's a vote to pick up by shredding a core Republican principle, he'll do it in a heartbeat.

    He opposed the Dept. of Homeland Security. Big government, anti-freedom. Oh, polls were in favor. Cool. He's down with it now. Especially as something to bludgeon Dems with. (Who were for it, almost unanimously, and who were among the folks who originated the idea.)

    Agricultural subsidies - statist and terrible economics. What - my base in the Red States is addicted to them? Sure!

    Free Trade? Sure, unless tariffs on steel might sway West Virginia.

    UN involvement in Iraq - "don't need 'em" until we do. Both dumb and a flip flop.

    The stem cell position is as agonizingly nuanced and weaselly as anything a Democrat pres or presidential candidate has articulated in the last 30 years.

    Bush has almost no principles. Those he has are wrong.

  35. seriously... by BinaryJono · · Score: 2, Insightful

    we all need to move to utah to make sure orrin hatch never again wins a seat in the us senate...

  36. We're all missing the real reason here by aristus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    RIAA doesn't really want to eliminate the iPod, the VCR, etc. What they want is the power to do so, exactly how the Business Software Alliance has special powers granted by congress to examine all your computers, without a warrant, to certify "compliance", and sue you out of existance while forcing you to pay their legal bills. It's not something they do every day because they don't *have* to. The threat is enough.

    What the *AA want is a piece of the pie, to mandate DRM *and* get a royalty payment off every device and download. We keep telling them "get a new business model!" Well, this is it.

    --
    Sometimes seventeen/Syllables aren't enough to/Express a complete
  37. RTFA yourself, first by roystgnr · · Score: 3, Interesting
    In the Marybeth Peters statement (an eye-opening read that cuts through the paranoia/lies that Slashdot is spoonfeeding you) she says several interesting things. She is not in favor of scrapping the Betamax decision, and makes no mention of it not be strong enough, despite what our editors want you to believe.

    Scrolling down to page 20 of Marybeth's statement:
    While you have carefully crafted this bill to preserve the 20-year-old decision in the Sony case, it may become necessary to consider whether that decision is overly protective of manufacturers and marketers of infringement tools, especially in today's digital environment. If the Sony precedent continues to be an impediment to obtaining effective relief against those who profit by providing the means to engage in mass infringement, it should be replaced by a more flexible rule that is more meaningful in the technological age, but that still vindicates the Court's goal to balance effective "and not merely symbolic" protection of copyright with the rights of others to engage in substantially unrelated areas of commerce.

    she gives facts making it riduculously clear that Kazaa and others like it are designed to contribute and profit from copyright infringement

    Unfortunately, Marybeth's understanding of peer-to-peer networking is just as superficial as your understanding of her statement. Her "ridiculously clear" facts include:

    Kazaa gets more advertising revenue from having more users. Duh. Her same argument would make Microsoft liable for people who send copyrighted attachments with Hotmail, except that unlike Kazaa, Microsoft has finally figured out that large companies can buy their way out of federal prosecution with enough political contributions.

    Kazaa automatically reshares downloaded files. Again, duh. Bittorrent (which you erroneously think she would support) works the same way. In any case it's irrelevant. If a file could have been legally downloaded once, then it's almost certainly free to upload afterward. In fact, the fact that peers do most of the uploading to relieve central servers of network congestion is practically the definition of how P2P software works!

    The X button minimizes instead of closes Kazaa. This doesn't "hide the program from the screen" as she says, it leaves the program in the taskbar, just like countless other programs from Mozilla to Winamp. Again, this is how P2P is supposed to work: because the software is always running, there is always a wide selection of uploaders available, and so uploads can be fast without swamping a central server.

    Kazaa lets you download more if you upload more. Again, Bittorrent works this way too. And yes, this is how P2P is supposed to work: fast download speeds for everyone are made possible by ensuring that the first people in line to download a file are the ones most likely to help others download it as well.
  38. Beat him over the head with a VOTING BOOTH. by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Among other things, it's legal.

    This might be an excuse to start getting out the youth vote. I suggest the following add be placed by 'interested citizens' in his riding:

    Would you like to be thrown in jail for making an MP3?
    Do you want CD writers to be illegal?
    Would you like your computer destroyed for sharing your own music?
    Would you like VCRs to be illegal?

    If Orrin Hatch has his way, all of these things may come to pass.

    NOW is the time to stop him.

    Get active.

    Get voting

    These ads should start going out as soon as possible.. Similar adds in the constituencies of other senators who are supporting this bill.

    People should start putting notices on their websites about senators and congresscrittors trying to outlaw these things.

    If anything will get out the youth vote, I think that this will.

    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    1. Re:Beat him over the head with a VOTING BOOTH. by silentbozo · · Score: 2, Informative

      You know, there are a lot of Slashdot readers. I'm sure most of us have at least $5 to spare toward killing the INDUCE act, and kicking Orrin Hatch out of office. We should pool our money, take out some Google Adwords ads, targeting keywords such as "Orrin Hatch, VCR, MP3 Player, freedom, etc.", and have them point to a site detailing how Hatch plans on stealing rights from the citizens of the country, in order to give them to corporate interests. This is nothing more than corporate welfare, cloaked in lies.

      Next step is to start taking out newspaper ads, and sending in letters to the editor (we've targeted the geeks and the net-savvy with the Google Adwords and the website, now to take it to the rest of the voting populace.) Drop by your local Good Guys, Best Buy, etc. where the salespeople make their commissions by selling you the latest electronic doodads. Let them know that their livelihoods are being imperiled by Hatch, and that they should tell people to buy their DVD recorders, etc. NOW. Nothing like panic buying to help drive up sales, and increase media awareness of an impending deadline to get coverage.

      Only now, that you've sounded the alarm among the voting public, gotten money involved (ie, commerce is threatened), and managed to get media attention focused on scaremongering INDUCE for what it is, ONLY THEN do you start putting the heat on the senators and elected representatives. That's how the game is played - if we approach them now, they'll just spin it about how INDUCE is needed to prevent piracy, blah, blah, blah. If we establish that INDUCE will rob Americans of their rights, and condemn our industries to second-class status, and throw thousands out of work, all to provide corporate welfare to Orrin Hatch's campaign contributors, well, and that's what the media is telling the general public, that puts the politicians mightly on the defensive, doesn't it?

    2. Re:Beat him over the head with a VOTING BOOTH. by Daimaou · · Score: 2

      You are incorrect regarding the LDS church. While they do encourage their members to vote, they have never in my lifetime offered any political directives regarding candidates whatsoever. To blame them for is as ugly and dishonest as Hatch himself.

      The problem in Utah is that the people are very conservative so they vote the republican candidate most of the time (SLC being the exception) but they only vote during the final election. If Utah is going to oust Hatch, it needs to be done prior to the final voting stage so he isn't even on the ballot. A republican will always win. We, as Utahns need to make sure there is a different republican to vote for in the final election.

  39. Open Letter to Orrin Hatch by Rimbo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Mr. Hatch,

    You have proven yourself to be a man of noble intent. Your support of the DREAM Act alone shows that you care about individuals, and that you care about the future of America. I am certain that your support of INDUCE is also backed by noble intent; it is wrong for people to steal from the works of others.

    On that note, let's examine the business practices of the corporations that have asked you to help them. They frequently state that they are here to protect artists; if that's so, why do artists who work for them revile them? They say that they are here to prevent theft; if so, why do artists accuse them of stealing from artists? They say that P2P applications have no legitimate uses; if that's so, why do struggling independent artists -- those not affiliated with the RIAA's member corporations -- embrace P2P applications as their last, best hope?

    I write to you as an artist, and on behalf of artists, whose livelihood is threatened not by P2P apps, but by INDUCE. The RIAA is not speaking for me; it is my competition. Their true purpose is not to protect me, but to lock me out.

    Remember how hard you worked to secure digital law for the RIAA, so that they could distribute digital content safely? And how afterwards, they never did it -- except for a few third-rate websites? Instead, they used the law to lock out the means we independent artists use to promote our music -- P2P applications like Napster! These file-sharing applications give me a huge audience and distribution mechanism, so that I can find new fans without the need for the RIAA. That is the REAL reason for laws like INDUCE -- it's not about theft; it is about CONTROL.

    What protection is there for legitimate uses of P2P software? What is there in this bill to ensure I can still promote my music without having to sell my soul to the RIAA's member companies using the latest in technology?

    If you would like to discuss this issue more, please give me a call on my cell phone any time at (redacted). I believe that you would not promote a bill that would hurt America and its future. I think that if you understood my point of view, you would understand why I feel this bill, in its current form, may be very dangerous to America's future.

  40. Can you avoid the RIAA? by toddt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I like a fairly diverse set of music (Gillian Welch to Rammstein), but a quick check at RIAARadar.com shows a good chunk of it is RIAA produced.

    Now, I hate the RIAA as much as the rest of you. I like my rights, and it sucks that they're being trampled. The RIAA blows.

    But I also really like music. And I don't buy the argument that all RIAA music is crap. It isn't. The stuff that gets a lot of commercial airplay may very well be, but it's simply not true to say that the RIAA doesn't have good artists.

    And there's my problem. I hate the RIAA, and I like the artists. I'd cheerfully screw the RIAA by burning CDs from friends or finding what I like on the p2p networks, but I feel wrong not paying the artists for music that I spend a lot of time enjoying. Their hard work makes me happy, and they deserve compensation for that.

    I wish there were a way I could mail the artist a check directly, for some fair price. If I could, I'd send a letter saying, "Hey, Gillian. I downloaded your music from Kazaa. It's great. Here's eight bucks. I trust that's more than you'd get from the RIAA, if I bought their packaged version."

    Does any mechanism like this exist?

    1. Re:Can you avoid the RIAA? by base3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Buy your CDs used and send a buck to the artist. You break no copyright laws, save money, and, most imporantly, don't fund the War on Freedom.

      --
      One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
  41. Re:Vote in 2004 by maximilln · · Score: 2, Funny

    Get out and vote and teach everyone you know the truth.

    There are 100 people in society.
    There are 2 brilliant people.
    There are 20 greedy people.
    There are 20 gullible people.
    There are 10 who are opposed.
    There are 48 people trying to keep ahead of the bills.

    5 greedy people beat up 2 brilliant people to keep them quiet.
    5 greedy people convince 20 gullible people.
    20 gullible people make lots of noise.
    48 people trying to pay taxes are distracted.
    48 people placate the 10 who are opposed.
    5 greedy people, 20 gullible people, 10 people struggling to keep food on the table, and 2 people who are opposed go to the polls and vote.

    5 people sit back and enjoy the show.

    --
    +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  42. You Americans forget something: by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're not the only country in the world. You're not even the only country on your land mass.

    Your friendly neighbour to the north (Canada) allows filesharing technology. The Internet cares not for borders.

    Our stores will sell gear without DRM. (It's cheaper to make stuff without it.)

    You can walk or drive to Canada. If not, our stores will ship gear to you. Pick up a high-flow toilet while you're here - they're great!

    Also, our legal system is loser-pay. That means that if someone sues me in a Canadian court and I win, they pay my legal bills. The RIAA's tactics can't work in Canada.

    --

    ---
    ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    1. Re:You Americans forget something: by t_allardyce · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Our stores will sell gear without DRM. (It's cheaper to make stuff without it.)

      Thats about to change. DRM will be included in most chips (CPUs, MPEG-Decoders & other DSP etc..) and once its in it will pose no extra cost. Finding chips without DRM will be the hard (i.e expensive) thing. Im guessing no American or European companies will risk making them for fear of being fined, some other enterprising foriegn manufactures might make some (or make mod chips) they could potentially make a fortune. Once the big players have got together with the US government and agreed on hardware, life is going to suck and since the US polices the rest of the world (i.e decides what laws we need to have in order to trade with the US) life is going to suck for everyone else too.

      Just read about high-flow toilets ROFL "you have the right to own an assult rifle that can cut through trees and brick walls, but not a toilet that can flush more than 1.6Gs!"

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  43. Re:And here is his response by aronc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please know that I will keep your views in mind as I work to generate consensus on this bill, and to pass laws that are good for copyright holders, good for technology, and - most of all - good for consumers.

    This line to me contains the crux of one of the biggest problems while the whole discussion. Note that you are only a consumer, over and over again. Not a producer, not a citizen, not a fellow american, not a constituent, hell.. not even a customer. Only a simple a consumer. As long as our the members of our government view us all as simply a gaping maw waiting to buy and wolf-down the products of industry we will not be given equal footing with said industry with regards to drafting legislation.

    --

    jello.
    aka aron.
  44. So Stop It by cgreuter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is really easy to stop. For all we talk about campaign contribution and corporate influence, Hatch is still accountable to the people. If you want to kick him out of office, just get the voters mad at him. All the campaign contributions in the world won't get him re-elected if the voters hate him.

    And none of the voters like this bill. The only reason he's getting away with it is that most people don't know about it at all. (What? The mainstream media isn't reporting on it? Shocking!)

    So get the word out. Write a pamphlet that describes this in a way ordinary (non-geek) folk will find informative (think "VCRs made illegal", not "stifling innovation"), put it online and get people in those areas to print up copies and hand them out door to door.

    Be sure to ask the recipients to write to Hatch et., al about this as well. There's nothing like a flood of angry letters to get a politician to back off.

  45. Youth vote? What youth vote? by Simonetta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a type of law that focuses on people who don't vote, young people. Young people are really the only people who are downloading MP3 and DivX stuff. 55 year olds aren't going to risk jail and bank account confication in order to hear "I can't get no satisfaction" one more time.
    Basically when laws like this are passed, they are written very broad so that anything involving music recordings in digital form can be interpreted by some mean old judge somewhere as illegal. But they are always enforced very politically. Rich white kids will get away with claiming that their brother's girlfriend's old college Napster account makes it OK for them to download anything and everything, while black college students will be thrown in prison for downloading 80 year-old African-American history items from the Library of Congress without written permission from the CEOs of the global media corporations.
    These kind of laws just perpetuate and intensify the level of institutional corruption already present in a country. They seem new and extreme for America, but it's just standard operating procedure in the third world. What's disheartening is the extent that the US Congress is adopting third world legal standards. Before the Reagon era there was always someone in the back rooms of the Capitol who would just say that these bills were Bongo Congo laws and not the way that we do things here. Now the corporations are in a positive feedback corruption loop passing dumb laws right and left.
    In the long run, the effect of really dumb corrupt laws is to transfer innovation both in culture and technology to another part of the world where there isn't so much pressure from the government. The reason Hollywood became the world's film capital is because all the bright people moved there from the NorthEast in order to get away from Edison's crushing patents, back when he claimed to have invented everything and had enough money to hire private goon squads to bust up any movie or sound recording activity that didn't pay him off.
    Sometimes you just gotta lighten up and let people create and copy, regardless of how many patents or copyrights your lawyers say you own. In the end, it's good for business.