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TiVo Has to Fund Your Local Stadium

Strudelkugel writes "The Washington Post has a truly Kafka-esque article regarding TiVo, the broadcast flag, the NFL and limited file sharing. "TiVo, the company that makes the digital-video-recorder boxes that inspire such strange idolatry among their users, is in a weird spot. It's asking the Federal Communications Commission for permission to add a new feature -- the option for a TiVo user to send recorded digital TV programs via the Internet to nine other people." Just wait until your read the rest of the story..." This one is actually really worth a read to see just how bizarrely corrupt this all is. Enjoy.

22 of 437 comments (clear)

  1. Broadcast flag out of control by crazyray · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This article really highlights just how out-of-control the broadcast flag has become. As an owner of the HR10-250, the high definition Directivo, I wonder if this $1000 box will become worthless next July?

    1. Re:Broadcast flag out of control by crazyray · · Score: 2, Interesting

      from the DirectiVo FAQ at Tivocommunity http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.ph p?s=00f9270813bbb29640cdb8edfdf17076&threadid=1514 43

      Does the Broadcast Flag mean I will see a poor/downrezzed picture on my older HDTV?
      The broadcast flag would, in theory, allow a content provider to tell the HDTiVo to play back a broadcast at 480p instead of the 720p or 1080i quality that it was broadcast with.
      "The most important thing in the FCC's broadcast flag rules is that the broadcast flag cannot be used to prevent recording. That is not the intent of the broadcast flag, and even the MPAA in its comments filed to the FCC agreed that it should not restrict consumers from recording or copying for personal use. For that matter, the FCC doesn't have the authority to mandate something that overrides copyright law which allows us to record and copy for personal use.
      The FCC rules do not require devices to reduce the resolution of flagged HD material when it is output in analog form. (The FCC did not take any action to close the "analog hole".) However, devices will be required to reduce the resolution of flagged HD material when it is output in digital form over a signal path that is not secure. The HDTiVo's HDMI connection has the HDCP encryption, so the rule isn't applicable.
      The FCC rules also spell out how recorders are to comply with the broadcast flag. First, recorders have to preserve the flag. If the flag is there when it's recorded then it has to be there when it's played back. Second, recorders have to encrypt the stored content using an approved method so it can't be used elsewhere, except by other compliant products." -- Wayne Bundrick
      "The broadcast flag prevents flagged content from being passed via unprotected digital outputs (unprotected Firewire or DVI). Digital output must be protected by 'approved' mechanisms ... namely 5C(DTCP, HDCP, CPRM, D-VHS) approved protections.
      The only affect the broadcast flag could have on the HDTivo is that the DVI connection may require use of a DVI/HDCP compliant connection.
      All that being said, there are additional copy restrictions (copy never, copy once, etc.) that can be applied above and beyond the broadcast flag by DirecTV (or any MSO). The FCC has issued guidelines on what types of restrictions can be imposed based on the content type (Broadcast, Subscription Channels, Premium Channels, PPV, VOD, etc). In the most restrictive case, premium content (like PPV) can be marked as 'copy never'. Even when content is marked as 'copy never', it is still allowed to be buffered/paused by a PVR for up to 90 minutes." -- dt_dc

  2. Analog outputs by Kithraya · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My favorite part of the article is the bit about going to Congress to get ligislation enacted to get rid of or disable analog outputs. That single line pretty much sums up (in my view) just how out of control this broadcast flag has gotten.

    1. Re:Analog outputs by Arcanix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I voted Libertarian in the 2000 election but I will be voting for Kerry this election which I'm not too pleased about but I must.

      The two fundamentals or Libertarianism are social and economic freedom from the government.

      Clearly, Bush as a fundamentalist fails on the social freedom part as Republicans typically do. War on Drugs, Anti-Gay rhetoric, John Ashcroft (need I say more?) and of course Freedom of Religion but only if it's Christianity.

      What has disturbed me most though is the complete disregard for conservative fiscal values in this Administration. Our budget is the largest it has EVER been and as a percentage Bush has increased the government more than anyone since WWII. Not only that we are running record deficits which will eventually result in our taxes getting raised so we end up paying principle + interest.

      As far as Iraq one could support the invasion for Iraq to remove a threat to our country but no true Libertarian can really ever support a prolonged occupation of another country. Especially when it costs us a ton of money to support with few benefits unless you consider filling the ranks of Al-Qaida and other terrorist groups a benefit.

      Seriously though, I'd like to hear a Libertarian argument for voting Bush.

    2. Re:Analog outputs by Alsee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I want to correct one thing, which only strengthens the point you were making:

      deficit payments keep increasing

      It seems that the debt has become invisible, all anyone ever mentions is the deficit.

      There is no such thing as deficit payments. It's debt payments that are increasing. You could reduce the deficit by 99% and debt payments would still be increasing. As long as there is any decific the debt is increasing and debt payments are increasing. Any time to word "surplus" pops up everyone screams "tax cuts". It's not a freaking "surplus"! We're still 7.3 thrillion dollars in debt! There is no surplus unless it's more than $7.3 trillion!

      One third of the national budget is nothing but interest payments on the debt! And where do those interest payments go? To the richest people in the country holding Treasury bills, and to foreign investors! One third of all of our taxes does nothing but pump money from the general US public into the pockets of wealthiest few or to pump it out of the country. And if we paid off the national debt, well those people would still invest their money. They would just invest it somewhere productive, like into new businesses or expanding businesses. What better way to create jobs and stimulate the economy? Quit cutting taxes and just pay off the damn debt!

      Sorry, I didn't mean to rant at you, it's just a general rant that's been building up.

      If Libertarians want to cut spending and eliminate taxes, well fine. But they need to pay off the debt first, which means holding off on tax cuts.

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    3. Re:Analog outputs by Draknor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't agree with most of your post, but that's ok - we're each entitled to our own political philosophies.

      Bush recognizes that this is a war, the bad guys started it, and it's only going to get worse unless we start fighting back.

      But this line I had to address - the only "war" we have is the "war" the Bush Administration made up. The "war on terror" is no more of a war than the "war on drugs", and the "bad guys" didn't start it - that's just the simple black and white picture the Bush Administration (well, the whole federal government, really) wants you to believe.

      You want to talk about who started what, you should take a look at American foreign policy in the middle east over the last few decades, particularly concerning covert intelligence operations that sponsored or supported coup d'etats and gov't overthrows.

      Such a sordid history doesn't justify the 9/11 attacks, but you have to realize the context they took place in - not "evil-doers" who simply hate American freedoms, but violent people who are tired of the US interfering in their national affairs and overthrowing their governments to battle the Soviets or securing the flow of affordable oil.

    4. Re:Analog outputs by ipfwadm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Finally, there's the war on terror.

      We're not at war with terrorists. Terror is only the means that Islamic fundamentalists use towards their end. We are no more at war with terrorists than we were with bomber pilots, riflemen, and U-boat crew during WWII. Painting with the broad brush of "terrorist" simply allows us to use the new-found law enforcement tactics granted by the patriot act on anyone John Ashcroft chooses.

      the bad guys started it

      Would SOMEONE please acknowledge the fact that these people don't just hate us for the sake of hating us? Could it not have something to do with the fact that for the past 75 years we have exploited their region for its oil reserves, propping up evil dictatorships only because they were friendly to us, while enriching the 1% of the population that owns the oil wells while the rest of the population lives in abject poverty? And because they live in poverty and have nothing to do all day, they sit around all day and come up with ways to hate us more! No, they hate us solely because we're rich. Bullshit. If that's the reason, then those hundreds of billions of dollars we are putting towards Iraq would serve us much better if we scatter them from an airplane over the entire Middle East in order to share the wealth.

      it's only going to get worse unless we start fighting back

      If you mean fighting back in the guns and bullets sense, then you are dead wrong. Hasn't Israel proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that attempting to wipe out Hezbollah, et al has done absolutely nothing but recruit more terrorists? Has the number of suicide bombings in Israel decreased since Israel starting going after these organizations en masse? I didn't think so. We need to fight an IDEOLOGICAL war, not a guns and bullets one. The guns and bullets war will be unsuccessful because for every one you kill, you piss another 10 off enough to want to kill us. Iraq has been one big Al Qaeda recruiting field day. Only by convincing these people that we ARE a great nation can we win (hint: beating the shit out of Iraqi prisoners is not a step in the right direction). We need to revise our foreign policy so as to treat Arabs as REAL PEOPLE, rather than just those poor brown people who happen to ride their camels on top of the largest oil reserves on the planet. We need to stop supporting terrible regimes like Saudi Arabia. We need to give these people SECULAR educations. We need to give them jobs and opportunities. Bush always says that fighting so-called terrorists is harder then fighting the Soviets was, because at least the Soviets didn't want to die. Well, why don't we give Arabs something to live for, and then maybe it wouldn't be such a simple choice for them. Am I the only one that finds this so obvious? Or is it the neo-typical "it's everyone else's fault, let's sue 'em!" American mindset?

      Oh yeah, and reducing our fossil fuel dependence wouldn't be a bad start either. Turn off your damn computer at night. Yes I know you look 3733t when you have an uptime of 6 months, but who cares. Turn off the lights when you leave the room. Buy an automobile that gets more than 10 miles to the gallon. Oh, you need an SUV for those two times a year when you carry big stuff? Bullshit. Go rent a U-Haul, it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper. Support serious investments in alternative energy sources. Hint: drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge does not count as an alternative energy source, no matter what Dick Cheney whispers in your ear at night.

      so we're fighting in Iraq

      I would be willing to bet that 90% of the so-called terrorists that are currently in Iraq were not there before we showed up. Like I said, one big Al Qaeda recruiting picnic.

      Kerry thinks we should wait for them to attack, and then get the U.N. to arrest them and try them in the World Court

      At least that's an indication that Kerry acknowledges that there are other nations on this planet other than our own. Bush said it himself, you're either with us or against us. Well, it's turning out that more and more of the world is against us, and quite frankly, that doesn't make me feel more comfortable in our security.

  3. Too Many Complications by gid13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm tired of this. Stop restricting information flow with legal means. Stop having copyrights and patents. If people want to keep secrets, let them encrypt their data. If people want to hack that encryption, let them try.

    It's a ridiculously tiny jump from freedom of speech to freedom of information. The only reason it seems like a big jump to having no copyrights is that, although we're far better off than some parts of the world, we don't REALLY have free speech.

    Bottom line: if they want the TV revenue, let them take the risks associated with having it out there. As the article says, at this point an online viewer would be lucky to watch the game by the next day anyway, and who knows? Maybe this kind of exposure would draw in MORE fans and let them sell out MORE games. Maybe.

  4. Re:ARGGH by ghack · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Why do we keep subsidizing broken businesses? The NFL isn't like the airlines or Amtrak, our country could still function normally if some of the less profitable teams folded.

    This is, for several reasons, a relatively ignorant statement. The first problem with the statement involves categorizing the NFL a "broken business." The NFL has a nice profit sharing system that is damn near communistic. In fact, because of the sharing scheme, even the worst teams make alot of money, and cities, essentially, have to pay for the privledge of having a team, even a terrible one.

    The NFL is far from broken business, in fact, it is the most popular professional sport in the U.S. today. I agree that stadiums should not be funded by taxpayer dollars; they should be funded by the businesses that sponsor them. Heinz field, for example, should not have been funded by the people of pittsburgh, but by the ultra-rich heinz corporation.

    On another note, many of the stadiums which team executives complain are "obsolete" are perfectly acceptable. Case in point: the Herbert Humphrey Metrodome in Minneapolis, Minn. Red "Greedy" McCombs insists that Minnesota build him a new stadium so that they may continue to experience the priviledge of watching his crappy, go 15-1 and choke in the playoffs type of football. The Metrodome is consistently the loudest stadium in the league, and it has some of the best fans, yet "Red" is threatening to move the team.

    In any event, I agree that the NFL should not be subsidized, since it is one of the most profitable business in the U.S. today. However, on that same token, neither should Amtrak or the airlines. Only through a lack of funds will those corporations ever be able to slim down enough so that they become profitable. If the government continues to pour money that they coerced from private individuals into their coffers, the airlines and Amtrak will continue to operate less and less efficiently, effectively becoming yet another extension of bloated government bureaucracy. Southwest airlines, crappy as it may be, manages to avoid operating in the red.

  5. Re:how about taxpayers.... by TykeClone · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It's probably not a popular opinion here, but people go to college to get the skills to attempt to get a job in their chosen field (vet-med, engineering, modern dance,...). Why should it be any different for football and basketball players? Only a small percentage of those who play the sports in college go on to be professionals - and the fact that scholarships are given to many who don't go on give a lifetime of opportunity to them that an education affords.

    I personally like college football and basketball more than the NBA or NFL and I do attend games when I can.

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    A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
  6. Re:Blunt-edge technology by babyrat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Of course, they'll be banking on the fact that relatively few people will stick to such technologies, but it only takes one person with a linux-based PVR and a copy of gtk-gnutella to totally screw the pooch.

    And what happens when your capture card in that PC dies? Any new one you buy will have to honour the broadcast flag. The Broadcast flag isn't an over-night fix, but 20 years from now when all the hardware that doesn't support the broadcast flag has died, it will reign supreme - except of course for the foreign hardware that illegally trickles in from places that are not the land of the 'free' thus are not mandated to provide broadcast flag censorship.

  7. Escrowed Release by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    n the case of literature and the like this is intended to keep publishers from printing copies without paying the authors, for a limited time. ...

    If you want to make such a change, you need to amend the consititution.
    That's a really tough road to hoe.


    Especially if it is paved with asphalt. Really, that's "tough row to hoe" as in "row of corn."

    I think it was Valenti who was quoted as saying that he wants to define "limited time" as "forever" but since his lawyers told him that's not possible, he'll settle for "forever minus a day."

    But, just as the copyright industry is "legally hacking" the provision, we could do the same thing (if we had the power to get an amendment in place, we certainly would have the enough power to do the following) -- define "limited time" to the first 10 seconds after publication.

    The difference between Valenti's absurdity and my apparent absurdity is that his position is akin to eating his own feedcorn -- by destroying the public domain, eventually there will be no raw material to draw on as a basis for new creations, everything will require licensing and royalties and you can be certain that as soon as there is no longer any "free" competition for raw material, the cost of the not-free stuff will skyrocket.

    Meanwhile, my proposal still leaves open plenty of room for artists to make money. Not distributors and the other types of middlemen who make up the copyright induistry and only serve as bottlenecks today, there is no room for them to make much money, certainly not the gazillions that they do today. But the artists, the actual creators of the work can still get paid and even paid well if they are successful by implementing the idea of escrowed release to the public domain. Essentially, they set a total price for their work, interested buyers pay into an escrowed account. Once the total meets the price (or the seller lower his asking price), the work is released to the public domain. Artists who create popular work will be able to fetch successively higher prices for each new release.

    One might argue that under such a scheme it is impossible to get started in the first place since no one will know the quality of your work. My response is that under today's system so many artists work for next to nothing all of their lives that simply releasing a few pieces of work for free as advertising is effectively no different than the way things work today and provides a much higher probability of achieving some level of success in the long run.

    Perhaps a simpler, more catchy way to say "escrowed release to the public domain" would be - "work once, paid once (just like everybody else)."

    PS, googling for "streetperformer protocol" will turn up a white paper or two describing one form of escrowed release to the public domain.

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    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  8. Re:ARGGH by vaguelyamused · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You forget the car companies. People always rail against Amtrak and the airlines for being subsidized by the government. They complain these businesses shouldn't receive subisdies and should stay afloat on there own. However they ignore by FAR the biggest transportation subsidies go towards the automotive transport systems. Rail companies are expected to build and maintain track yet how many roads have Ford and GM built? If the government spent even a small percentage of what it spends on roads on rail and transit systems that would be much more efficient, less polluting and far less dangerous

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    STOP ROCK VIDEO
  9. Re:how about taxpayers.... by thoth · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why should it be any different for football and basketball players?
    Professional sports leagues shouldn't use our university system as their minor leagues. They should establish universities that grant degrees in football, basketball, whatever. Sort of like a trade school. You would attend, and work on your degree in football. Get your B.S.football or B.S.basketball, and enter the league. No taking up space at a university praying to be drafted before you graduate.

  10. Re:how about taxpayers.... by JAZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just fyi.... around here the local highschool football teams make enough money in ticket sales to find the program. So the tax payers get it started, but then it goes on to generate a surplus, that occasionally goes to fund other things - though not often enough IMHO.

    j

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    "Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -- Homer Simpson
  11. Re:how about taxpayers.... by ikeleib · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I completely agree with you. The public school system need only spend on football what it spends on other electives like language or art. If the art students can go on to be professional artists for such a nominal extra investment, why can't the football players do the same? In fact, I'll bet the success ratio of art students being able to be professional artists is greater than that of football players. Perhaps there would be even more professional football players if we cut the funding of football!

  12. Re:Blunt-edge technology by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I, for one, would asume the risk of a "drug dealer" in importing it (from freer countries) and selling it.

    If TC becomes reality, there won't be freer countries. Everything in the WTO will be required to build TC hardware only. Everyplace else that manufactures flexible computers will be threatened by the USA with supporting economic terrorism.

  13. Re:how about taxpayers.... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No, but unfortunately the parent poster is correct, huge amounts of needed capital are siphoned off to support sports. And don't get me started on how schools will deliberately allow an athletically-gifted student to underperform academically. Sadly, sports are an ingrained component of our school system, and students and society alike are suffering for it.

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    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  14. Re:Buy your own stadiums! by crawdad62 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here! Here!

    What cities need to do is stop being held for "reverse ransom." You know... 'You don't build us a stadium we're taking our ball and going someplace else." Which is happening right here in Indy which in turn we did to Baltimore. Our stadium isn't that old either (Hoosier Dome aka RCA Dome). Once cities decide to stop playing their game they'll have to do it on their own.

    Unfortunately every city is so hungry for a pro team there'll always be one that figures it worth giving in to them just so they can go out and buy a $150 jersey and be part of the team.

    Yikes it's only a game. Nothing more nothing less.

  15. We vote for people, not ideologies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Yeah, I'm really revved up to vote for.....uhhh, who is the Libertarian candidate again?

    Harry Browne? Who the hell is Harry Browne?

    Face it, you don't vote for ideology, you vote for PEOPLE. The people who you think will carry out your ideology most effectively. Noted traits: memorable personality, ability to communicate ideas, ability to convert normal citizens through rational debate. These traits are what separate the Clintons, Reagans and Kennedys of this world from the Bushes, Carters and Kerrys.

    To break the two party system you're going to need a vibrant leader capable of converting normal people into supporters. Who has Harry Browne or Ralph Nader converted, really? They lack the oratory and logical skills to counter the two party hacks; they can't convert anyone, and they only get their votes by preaching to the already converted.

    Don't bash the voting system just because your second rate (or third rate, for a pun} candidates don't have the organizing and elocutory skills to rise above it. Politics is made by people. Get an able person for your candidate and call back in 4 years.

  16. Re:Wait, is this Slashdot? by snarkasaurus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Both sides of the gun control debate are made up of people who are trying to do the right thing. We may question their methods or reasoning, but it's hard to question their motivation."

    You wish that were true. That's my point. TiVo owners and people who use computers generally are just now brushing up against the same slime pit gun owners have been wrestling with since the 1960's.

    There's two kind of people in the world, the kind that are willing to leave you alone and the kind that want to decide on the configuration of your TiVo. For your own good of course.

    You just got a look at their true motivation. Ugly, ain't it?

  17. Re:ARGGH by mdfst13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Automobile companies do not pay extra to support roads, but fuel companies do. Nationwide, more money is collected from fuel taxes than is spent on roads. Fuel tax costs *are* included in the costs passed on to consumers. It would be different if taxes on rail travel were used to subisdize rail transport, but in fact, some of the excess from fuel taxes (from cars and trucks!) is used to subsidize rail companies.