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Smart Glass Blocks Infrared - But Only When It's Hot

klevin writes "New Scientist has an article about a new way of making sheets of glass so they block infrared energy at temperatures above 29C (84.2F). Just so long as it doesn't have to get that hot on both sides of the glass. My AC comes on way before 84F. I suppose that with double or triple paned glass, you'd only treat the exterior pane."

38 of 303 comments (clear)

  1. Safe? Lifespan? by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Interesting
    However, a number of issues still need to be overcome. Firstly, the substance is not permanently fixed to the glass. Also, the coating itself currently has a strong yellow tint.
    Anyone know toxicity of Vanadium dioxide? How would it hold up to acid rain (H2S) and what byproduct is likely if it comes away and combines with other compounds. (Remember the good old days when car brake pads were asbestos and people pissed about asbestos being in the vents, but didn't realize the city air was awash with it?) What kind of lifespan will it have under nominal outdoors conditions, including periodic cleaning?

    How's that yellow tint going to look where indoor light is already greenish from fluorescent lighting? Will we walk outside and everything will look pink or purple? Fun!

    Hopefully in three years they'll give some answers to these questions and more. I've got a couple windows, but we've got no air conditioning and the heat reflects off an earthen bank, most of the heat comes through the walls.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  2. Damn, that's unfortunate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    This will severely hamper my illicit recordings of my neighbors having sex using my hidden wireless camera.

    1. Re:Damn, that's unfortunate by SlamMan · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why would you have sex using a wireless camera?

      --
      Mod point free since 2001
  3. window tinting? by natron+2.0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sounds very similar to Ceramic window tinting film that is found on cars

  4. can be used in cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If this technology comes out, a good application is to use it in cars (especially in hot areas).

    1. Re:can be used in cars by misleb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ever notice how the inside of a car gets HOTTER than the outside air? That is from the sun's radiation, not conduction through the metal (or glass). If you could block the heat from the sun, cars would be much easier to cool and they might not get so damn hot when parked.

      --
      "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
    2. Re:can be used in cars by rjstanford · · Score: 4, Informative
      For example: I would LOVE to have a cartop solar cell harnessed to a fan helping to cool the car

      You mean like Audi's "Warm Weather Package"?
      • Solar sunroof (operates fresh air fan when parked in sun)
      • Power rear window and manual rear side window sunshades

      Granted.
      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  5. Re:Safe? Lifespan? by Leffe · · Score: 4, Funny

    How's that yellow tint going to look

    Oh, that's easy, the opposite of yellow is blue, just use blue glass!

  6. 84 degrees is okay for some things. by lpangelrob2 · · Score: 4, Informative
    First poster brought up good points about toxicity... I'll address the temperature question.

    (sidenote: I guess there's a new geek test out on how to actually post to this story... the Read More link being wrong and everything...)

    84 degrees actually is pretty comfortable for people in the south, especially if it's going to be a dry 84 degrees, which air conditioning can help with. This can be useful, if it's not as expensive as gold, and if it really works as advertised, for people living in dry climates (read: desert southwest) who don't want to run A/C bills through the roof.

    That said, I recall that while a significant percentage of heat comes from solar energy through windows... when the house is sitting in a 110 degree plain, it may not be quite as good as first thought.

    1. Re:84 degrees is okay for some things. by value_added · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That said, I recall that while a significant percentage of heat comes from solar energy through windows... when the house is sitting in a 110 degree plain, it may not be quite as good as first thought.

      What amazes me to this day is that a less hi-tech approach would be to plant a frigging tree. Cities here in Southern California still insist on cutting them down (ostensibly to save money from the city maintenance budgets). Without the shade, you get roofs and attic spaces that easily heat up to over 100 degrees and don't cool until 6-7 hours after nightfall.

    2. Re:84 degrees is okay for some things. by hummassa · · Score: 5, Informative

      Where I live (Belo Horizonte, southwestern Brasil) 84F (29C) is room temperature 9 out of the 12 months of the year. In the northern states, it's 11/12. We usually only turn our ACs on at home when it's 37C (100F) and above.

      Notwithstanding, this is _great_ (if the yellow tint and the toxicity when broken issues are solved) for car windows. AC won't kick in as often (less gas spent), seats/steering wheel won't get ultra-hot when the vehicle is left under the sun (the beach!!), baby-left-in-the-car dehidration deaths won't happen.

      --
      It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
  7. I'll sum it all up in one word... by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Funny

    Cool!

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  8. Dye to change the color? by tmasssey · · Score: 3, Interesting
    According to the article, they want to add dye to get it to 'change color'. Given the subtractive properties of such a dye, won't that cause the glass to let in less light, just like the tinting they're trying to replace?

    I don't see how you *add* dye to get the coating to let in the light that the coating is currently blocking...

    1. Re:Dye to change the color? by CapnGib · · Score: 3, Informative

      It is called color compensating. You tint with complementary colors to neutralize a color cast. Yes it will make the window appear a bit tinted as less total light gets through, but it would be less yellow.

      --
      Beauty is truly in the eye of the tiger
  9. Temperature of Glass by Crazy+Man+on+Fire · · Score: 5, Insightful
    My AC comes on way before 84F.
    Looking at the article, it seems that it is the temperature of the glass that must reach 84F, not the temperature of the air inside the room. I would imagine that the glass reaches 84 much faster than the air inside, so your AC shouldn't be much of a factor unless it is cold enough to have a larger impact on the glass temp than the outside air and the solar energy.
    1. Re:Temperature of Glass by Tranzig · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually everything else in the room hit by the sunlight get way beyond 84F before either the window glass or the air inside the room. They start to radiate and heating up the air, much sooner than glass. And a typical window glass has neligible surface connection with other material than air and air has poor heat conduction and storage (sorry I don't know the exact English name of these physic attributes) capabilities, I think it is an educated guess that glass gets hot slower than air, thus this temperature boundary can be a real issue. (Though I have never made such measurements.)

    2. Re:Temperature of Glass by wanerious · · Score: 3, Informative

      When you touch your bathroom tile, it typically feels colder than the surrounding air. This is not because the tile is somehow cooled with respect to its surroundings, but because the tile is much more efficient at carrying away heat from your body. An air temperature of 70 degrees F can feel very comfortable, since air is a very poor conductor of heat, but 70 F water feels decidedly cool to the skin. Having said that, it still may be the case that your window is cooler or hotter than the inside of your house since it is the boundary between zones --- in fact, this is very likely, since glass is a much better heat conductor than the surrounding walls.

  10. Speaking of cars by AndyChrist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The yellow tint issue would have to be definitively solved before this stuff could be used on vehicles, due to some states not allowing certain colors of window tinting (red and yellow, probably reasoning that that would lower the visibility of emergency vehicles and caution lights).

  11. recycle by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How about some electronics grounding that vanadium dioxide? If set up right, when the VO2 transitions to "metallic" above 29C, the panel's photoelectric effect could harness the solar power now more highly available. That in turn could power other devices, like awnings, vent covers, or even fans, to mitigate the heat, using the sun's power against itself.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:recycle by WOV · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's too darn hard. I just came off of reading NREL's annual report on the research they're doing to bring down the costs on existing PV materials (silicon, CIGS, TIO2, etc.,) and it's more than enough to make me not want to "reinvent the wheel" on another niche PV compound.

      Better to take existing PV and incorporate it into a window made of something else if you want to do some active cooling. In fact, I wish I could find a good link, but I know that Audi does this with the sunroof on their "warm weather package" models - thin-film PV in the glass of the roof powers fresh air fans behind the headliner when the car is parked, so that you don't have to get into such a heinously hot car when it's been outside for a while. (or burn the gas to run your AC at "Max" for 15 minutes.)

  12. Re:Safe? Lifespan? by cephyn · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yellow tint, ew, but as for the Vanadium, if you have a double paned window, treat the inner side of the outer pane. No leakage or exposure to Vanadium, unless you break the glass. And no exposure to H2S rain.

    If you've got heat coming through the walls, just get some old-fashioned IR reflectors -- Aluminum Foil! Put it up to reflect heat away from your walls, and maybe an old fan to blow the heat off of it. Oh, and ripple it. Your very own House Heat Sink. Overclock your house!

    --
    Moo.
  13. Buildings as giant heat syncs by Anztac · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is wonderful, and a step in the right direction to be sure. I was actually just pondering if this kind of thing was possible the other day. Unfortunatly, buildings are still made like huge heat syncs. This is because a flat surface has a very poor surface area to volume ratio, other sky scraper shapes, such as cylinders, are even worse. R. Buckminster Fuller explains this in his Critical Path. What really elucidates this is he says if we theoretically covered all the buildings from 20th to 80th St, I think it was, in Manhatten with one large dome we would decrease the surface area exposed to the elements by a factor of 84. Consequently, it would take 1/84th of the energy to heat and cool the environment.

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    ~Anztac
    1. Re:Buildings as giant heat syncs by soulsteal · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sure you could make the environemental control costs lower, but then Snake Plissken would have to save the President from the King of New York.

      It's just not worth it.

    2. Re:Buildings as giant heat syncs by paulthomas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're right on as far as domes being the way to go. Case in point: The German parliament building.

      The Reichstag in Berlin was recently renovated to put a huge glass dome on top of the existing structure. The dome doesn't cover it but merely sits on top. Running from the very top of the dome to the parliament floor is a funnel which is optimized to move hot air out via convection.

      You can actually go to the top of the dome and stand at the opening to the funnel and feel all the warmth. This is combined with traditionally cooling for a very economic effect.

      It's also a really cool looking building and a must see if you ever find yourself in Germany.

  14. Re:Safe? Lifespan? by sfire · · Score: 5, Funny

    Usually it's that heavy stuff that can withstand the direct impact of a pigeon (no sparrow jokes, please.)

    Good firewall against IP by carrier pigeon.

  15. Trouble by dr_dank · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Won't this interfere with the thermal imaging cameras fire departments use to find people in fires?

    --
    Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
  16. Except in areas with exceptional solar exposure by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 3, Informative

    Imagine living in Nevada, where you get sun for more than 300 days a year, and most of those days are high quality 90F or higher sun.

    A solar home can only use so much.
    A trombe wall can only absorb so much.
    Even the new 10% transparent solar collectors can only do so much.

    What do you do with the excess heat?
    You run evaporative coolers and AC.

    The only other way to shed the excess heat is to absorb it (ala these panes or burying the house underground) or redirect it, with things like geothermal heat pumps.

  17. Re:solution by redJag · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, the point of activating it only when it's hot is for cold weather times. When it's cold outside, letting solar energy IN saves money; when it's hot outside, keeping it out saves money. Pumping in hot air would be a waste in three ways (heating the air, pumping the air, and negating the entire point of the treated glass).

  18. I thought visible light was the problem by clone22 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Visible light comes through the window and is absorbed by materials which start radiating that energy as IR. Auto glass is better at transmission of visible light than IR, so inside of car gets hotter. If true, it would help to have better IR transmission than to limit IR transmission.

    --
    Ask me about my vow of silence!
  19. Re:Safe? Lifespan? by Sloppy · · Score: 5, Funny
    As a side benefit you won't have to wear your tin foil hat inside anymore!
    That's exactly what they want you to think.

    And since you're thinking it, that means they already got you. You're compromised. We can't have you at the meetings anymore. Er, I mean, what meetings?

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  20. Re:Next step... by Jhan · · Score: 4, Funny
    Next step is glass that turns transparent to visible light when it's hot[...]

    ... and the step after that is of course glasses that turn opaque when facing peril, thus allowing you to keep your cool.

    --

    I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.

  21. It should work by DarthTeufel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've worked in the glass industry for over three years, acutally for one of the direct competitors of the people (Pilkington) who came up with this. Coating glass almost always (90% of the time) requires an insulated (two lites of glass) unit. The coating goes on the inner surface because it is easy to scratch the coating off, and since its a near vaccum inside insulated units they don't have to worry about what ambient conditions will do to the coating. Now the yellow tint will be a non-issue come production time. It realy will be either applying it to glass that is already tinted to cancel out the yellow or they'll modify the formula to get it to appear clear. And the fact that it eventually wears out will either be adjusted for in the R&D process (not likely, too expensive), or offering some kind of warranty on it. It is cheaper to re-produce because of the scale of glass plants, than it would be for the R&D to get another year or two of useful life. The process of coating itself is very very interesting. They pretty much ionize particles to bond at a molecular level to the glass. It's a niche field, but one that is very lucrative because there are not that many people in it. And as far as costs are concerned, it should be rather cheap. Glass itself costs around 1-5 cents (US) per squarefoot. A float glass plant produces around 650 tons of glass a day. The process is really really efficient.

  22. Roof gardens. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In Tokyo, law requires large buildings to have roof gardens to prevent the roofs from getting so hot. Plants will use that energy to grow, instead of letting that energy hit concrete, metal, etc and become heat. Its estimated that tokyo would be 10 degrees hotter on average without the roof gardens.

    1. Re:Roof gardens. by valkraider · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here in Portland, OR - they try and implement things like this, but then people just complain about the extra cost up-front.

      When will Americans learn - if we build stuff cheap up front it is more expensive long term. If we spend more money up front, we save LOTS of money in the long term...

      Oh, wait. That would be smart...

    2. Re:Roof gardens. by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's the American Way. Buy cheap crap, then spend even more money to fix or replace it. It's why ultra-cheap inkjet printers (with their absurdly priced replacement cartridges) are so popular. I got a laser printer instead, which only costs a penny or two per page, so I'm UnAmerican.

  23. block by reflecting or absorbing? by nicknicknick · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The article just says "blocks" If the glass blocks by absorbing IR then this would be a problem in double pane windows. The outer pane (or is it lite?) would become dramatically hotter and would expand more than inner one. This could break the seal between the two sheets and release any enclosed gas (argon fill is commonly used to reduce convective currents that transfer heat) as well as allow moisture in causing fogging. This was apparently a problem with some do it some do-it-yourself window tints. I don't know much chemistry but they say it's metal-like above transition temp so maybe that means it reflects. BTW I have now idea why Argon would reduce convective currents. Anyone know? I just know that lower convection is a property of heavy gasses

  24. It's safe by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 4, Informative

    Vanadium is a common alloying element in steel. The two MSDS pages I found indicate that the powdered oxide isn't very good to breathe or eat, but the amount released by breaking a window is probably so small that you wouldn't notice. The biggest hazard would be to people working in the manufacture of such windows.

  25. Nature says you can't by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 3, Insightful
    But why can't the consumptive tech be improved so solar collectors/transformers DO use ALL the heat (or the amount above xx Celsius)? Is this some law of nature where thermal can be blocked but not utilized?
    Yes. It's called the second law of thermodynamics. You can't convert heat to more-useful forms without a heat "sink" at a lower temperature, and when your house is the thing at the lowest temperature and you want to cool it this is problematic. Just keeping the heat out is the easiest and most economical thing to do; heat that doesn't get in doesn't have to be pumped out again.