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Canadian Robot Could Rescue Hubble
NETHED writes "We have all seen Stories about The Hubble Space Telescope and its current problems. Since then, NASA has okayed the fix of the HST. It seems that America's neighbor to the North has some answers. Dextre to the rescue. The mission would not be decided upon until next summer says Sean O'Keefe. It seems that NASA saw this as a good way to listen to the public for about 1.6 billion dollars." Update: 08/11 15:45 GMT by T : Reader Michael Mol dug up a link with a more technical explanation of Dextre, noting "It looks like Dextre's normally supposed to be attached to something before it performs work."
It was poor timing on NASA's part, really, because just when the latest and greatest pics from Hubble were gaining mass popularity, they wanted to pull the plug. Maybe O'Keefe isn't the savviest politician?
The HST is one of the coolest tools we have for exploration. I'm rather glad that it will be serviced, and thanks to our country's hat (Canada) for stepping up.
doesn't show up to throw a wrench in the works.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Other than this project and the arm for the ISS (and possibly the shuttle) is there anything else that Canada has put into space? Are they particularly good at robotics?
Dextre looks like a Lego bot. Is this how NASA plans to save money?
A hope that Dextre won't be a prank in the good ol' tradition of Canadian sense of humor.
Great, but will it be able to service a device that wasn't built to be taken apart?
The Hubble wasn't designed to be entirely serviceable...that led to problems with previous servicing missions, most notably replacing the old defective mirror.
It looks like Dextre is supposed to be mounted to something before operating. Perhaps they're planning on a free controlled platform?
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O'Keefe is going to have to ask Congress for an extra $1.6B, which isn't budgeted. Isn't this about 5 times the amount a manned mission costs to do the same thing?
Is it worth it?
HCG 50a = 2MASX J11170638+5455016
11h17m06.4s +54d55m02s
If at some point NASA won't be willing to maintain the hubble anymore, how about transfering it to ESA? (petty nationalistic interests aside.)
Err, wait. I retract my statement. I was thinking of the Canadarm.
I'm surprised someone modded me insightful already.
Dextre is a clever name for a two armed robot. In classical latin Dexter is the right hand and Sinister is the left hand. That is why we call people who have "two right hands" ambi-dexterous. I'm not going to make any jokes about left handed people being sinister in case they ended up with all the mod points today.
Okay, we've proven that we're good at building huge robotic arms. Canada == Huge arms in space. Now what about some legs, eh? Then, once we have the legs, if we put some funding into it we could put the two together and build some giant Canada-space-mechs. It's cool even without the "giant robot" factor.
1. Build huge space-mechs
2. ???
3. Profit!
It practically sells itself!
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
Are we going to run back to mommy every time we stub our toes in space?
Being on the frontier is dangerous; every single one of the astronauts knows this and signed up for it.
If any of them don't want to fly Space Shuttle missions anymore, then don't make them. But I'm sure enough would volunteer for a manned Hubble repair mission that it wouldn't be a problem.
Besides, we need to keep Hubble going; The Webb telescope is NOT a replacement for Hubble - it looks at different wavelengths; if we could ever get both of them operating at the same time they could be used in a complimentary fashion.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
I'm just happy that they decided not to ditch the Hubble.
Ditching it may be stupid, but this is crazy. 1.6 billion for what? It's replacement is only slated to cost $824.8 million
Gimmy a freaking break.
Here's a good link from the Canadian Space Agency's web site on Dextre (Special Purpose Dexterous Manipulator): http://www.space.gc.ca/asc/eng/csa_sectors/human_p re/iss/mss_spdm.asp
Well, actually, do you want to claim the most famously (mis)manufactured bit, the myopic mirror, which I believe was made by Perkin Elmer, or at least tested by them. They appear to be in the US, though I am willing to believe it was a group of kanuckle-heads. The difference between precision and accuracy is an important one...
Is the $1.6B cost of this in US or CA funds? 'Cause I got about $1.6B Canadian back in change from my Value Meal yesterday...
--AC
Too bad all the competing projects do not work together. If the Hubble telescope was 'designed' for docking, it could have been pulled to the ISS and attached.
Since the seemingly forgotten ISS needs inhabitant refreshes every so often, the cost for upkeep of both could be lessened - parts could be sent w/the new batch and damaged parts returned w/old.
The pride of Nova Scotia serves better purposes.
Its replacement also isn't scheduled to go up for another 7 years. And doesn't factor in the cost to get it up there yet. Or the labour to build the thing. Or the cost of fixing it when the inevitable problems crop up.
I'll give you a freaking break right away.
MD Robotics has played a vital role in NASA space programs. It's the same company that has built the CanadaArm and CanadaArm2 and is now providing with Special Purpose Dexterous Manipulator for HST.
I am very proud to see Canada (and MD Robotics, since it has a development lab in my hometown) play a vital role in ISS (with CanadaArm and CA2) and now the HST.
I thought I read somewhere that while the JWST would "replace" Hubble, there was still some things that Hubble could do that JWST couldn't.
Is that true?
However, most of our (Canada's) Research has gone into underwater exploration. This only makes sense since over 80% of our border is coastline. This is where to look for examples of canadian robotics.
Other examples of advances from canadians is some of the more advanced Meterology satallites that have been designed and developed here in our humble country.
For some references you can check out..
The ISE Laval University
and a list of others
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
They "see" different wavelengths of light. JWST is designed to see farther. They'll be looking at completely different things.
The question is more like "has Hubble 'seen' enough?"
Are there any more things we can usefully point it at, or do we have enough images to analyse as it is? Besides pretty desktop wallpapers, what type of knowledge or discoveries will that 1.6 billion to keep it up there get us?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
>>Ditching it may be stupid, but this is crazy.
I guess the main reason is that the damn thing is still cranking out incredible images and has a huge waiting list. Besides I consider the so called ditching solution by O'Keefe to be extremely lazy. If the replacement is so inexpensive, why not eventually have both devices serving the scientific community?
Does it seem like NASA made the most publically sucsessful project into a false sacrificial lamb in order that they might both increase their budget by special appropriation and appear to be managing their budget by cutting costs on supposedly outdated hardware.
It seems that their gambit is paying off. The public (ok, a bunch of geeks) wailed loud enough that congress is willing to consider special funding.
-- The morphemes of your disquisition are ascertainable, but they have eschewed an ambit of transpicuous exposition.
This would also set a precedent for adding new capability instead of spending huge sums to maintain the old stuff. Why shouldn't we have several Hubble-type scopes instead of just one, anyway?
Sustainability and energy independence essay
Hubble sees very well in the visible and the near UV, so if we want full-spectrum coverage of unknown objects we are not going to be able to get it with just the Webb telescope.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
Give me 1.6 billion dollars, a copy of photoshop and a computer and I'll crank out incredible images! Tell you what, I'm a bargain, I'll do it for half!
BTM
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
The whole organization should be nuked
from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
We have the mod points everyday, Dexter...
--
You can't even do our secret handshake
HOSERS HOBBLE HUBBLE!
:)
Would be an appropriate headline for the newspapers, I think
We've all seen the same posts. Repeat after me, James Webb and Hubble see on different wavelengths. Therefore the Webb cannot replace Hubble. Don't be a troll.
Marvin knew: "Think of a number, any number..."
And it's scheduled to launch in 7 years, which any astronomer knows, doesn't imply that NASA is measuring time in Earth years.
As a rule of thumb, NASA schedules appear to use Martian years, occasionally using bodies in the Asteroid belt when Mars is feeling uncooperative. For instance, ISS will take 5 years to complete, the Galileo probe will arrive at Jupiter in 1986, and so on.
The Space Shuttle has an interesting history: initially projected to achieve 50 launches per year (using Martian years), revised down to 10 launches per year (using Ceres or Vespa in the asteroid belt for year measurement), and now targeted at 6 launches per Jovian year.
Put one of these on each of the remaining space shuttles so taht they can perform tile observation/repair, etc. when necessary without risking any lives.
I for one welcome our new Canadian overlords. And as a Canadian, I will be happy to round up americans to work in our subterranean robotic mines!
Why do you think the Canadian government is so against the weaponisation of space? So when the space-mechs are launched, there will be nothing that can stop them. And what do you think we've been doing with all that money we're not putting into conventional military equipment?
Similarly, the X-Prize is just a front for the daVinci Project, the real purpose is so we can continue to launch space-mechs when all the rest of the worlds' launch pads are smoking holes.
Look like they already worked that out... is that an ORU Temporary Platform on your chassis, or are you just happy to see me?
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Let's not forget another Canadian technological triumph, the Avro Arrow.
According to the most reliable sources I've been able to find, the Avro Arrow...
"Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive" -- hey, that's me!
Like the arm, it's a teleoperator, controlled by somebody with joysticks.
Given how much a shuttle flight costs, it would probably be cheaper to just run off another copy of the Hubble and launch that.
Dextre has a sibling robot named Dee-Dee, which is always messing up his work.
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Those of you who defend technology and globalism, I hope you can look an unemployed American astronaut in the eye while you explain your position. And be sure to explain who is going to put food on his family.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
That's only one tenth of the total NASA yearly budget. Definitely worthwhile so we can have pretty pictures for the few years between the Hubble and the James Webb.
This should be interesting... let's see how this one is spun. First it was BUSH HATES SCIENCE! I'm guessing we'll be back to BUSH IS PROPPING UP HIS CORPORATE CRONIES WITH CONTRACTS this time. Or do I hear a conspiracy theory dealing with how this was all a underhanded ploy to get more funding than originally provisioned?
Honestly, I'm probably not creative enough to come up with a high-quality spin. *sigh*
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
I always chuckle when Canadians take credit for inventing the phone. Bell was a Scotsman! He had the idea while in Brantford and before he became an American, but I would say that was more coincidental as he hadn't spent that much time in Canada at that point.
I'm not going to make any jokes about left handed people being sinister in case they ended up with all the mod points today.
Okay, it's been a few years since I was in Latin class, but...
As I recall, the word 'sinister' picked up its present connotation for just this reason. Supposedly (according to my teacher, anyway), since lefties are a statistical minority (what is it--8% of the populace now?) the Romans believed that there was something wrong with anyone who was left-handed. This was attributed to evil spirits or somesuch inhabiting the person. Hence the association of 'sinister' and 'evil'. Really!
Anyone else heard this, or was my Latin teacher full of it?
--Ribald
Take things on that second site with a big grain of salt. They don't seem to do any fact-checking on submissions to their site. That page may be correct but others certainly aren't (and they've been informed of pages with errors).
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Its replacement also isn't a 'replacement' the James Webb space observatory looks at a completely different set of wave lengths. Its about as much of a replacement as a boat is a replacement for a car.
They still don't even know what they are going to use to launch this thing. It's going to orbit further out than the moon does.
There's more issues besides just the cost too. Such as listed in the Report of the HST-JWST Transition Panel:
So where is the money best spent? Extending HST, or putting the rush on JWST? What can be sacrificed in expediting JWST? I don't know, but I assume NASA has qualified people to make those decisions, otherwise this would be an Ask Slashdot. Keep in mind, the US gov't apparently has billions of dollars to throw away on locating non-existent WMD, whats a billion or two on space research?
You must feel sooo cool.
Quite. It's only 6 degrees celsius outside this morning.
Ditching it isn't free either, unless you're talking about an uncontrolled reentry. From one proposal it would cost $300M (not including launch costs) to build an automated booster to attach to Hubble and safely deorbit it.
OK, I'm an asshole, I admit it. OK?
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Contrast this to the "fiscally responsible" "republican" USA...