Slashdot Mirror
Canadian Robot Could Rescue Hubble
NETHED writes "We have all seen Stories about The Hubble Space Telescope and its current problems. Since then, NASA has okayed the fix of the HST. It seems that America's neighbor to the North has some answers. Dextre to the rescue. The mission would not be decided upon until next summer says Sean O'Keefe. It seems that NASA saw this as a good way to listen to the public for about 1.6 billion dollars." Update: 08/11 15:45 GMT by T : Reader Michael Mol dug up a link with a more technical explanation of Dextre, noting "It looks like Dextre's normally supposed to be attached to something before it performs work."
I'm just happy that they decided not to ditch the Hubble.
It was poor timing on NASA's part, really, because just when the latest and greatest pics from Hubble were gaining mass popularity, they wanted to pull the plug. Maybe O'Keefe isn't the savviest politician?
The HST is one of the coolest tools we have for exploration. I'm rather glad that it will be serviced, and thanks to our country's hat (Canada) for stepping up.
doesn't show up to throw a wrench in the works.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Other than this project and the arm for the ISS (and possibly the shuttle) is there anything else that Canada has put into space? Are they particularly good at robotics?
Dextre looks like a Lego bot. Is this how NASA plans to save money?
A hope that Dextre won't be a prank in the good ol' tradition of Canadian sense of humor.
Great, but will it be able to service a device that wasn't built to be taken apart?
The Hubble wasn't designed to be entirely serviceable...that led to problems with previous servicing missions, most notably replacing the old defective mirror.
It looks like Dextre is supposed to be mounted to something before operating. Perhaps they're planning on a free controlled platform?
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
O'Keefe is going to have to ask Congress for an extra $1.6B, which isn't budgeted. Isn't this about 5 times the amount a manned mission costs to do the same thing?
Is it worth it?
HCG 50a = 2MASX J11170638+5455016
11h17m06.4s +54d55m02s
If at some point NASA won't be willing to maintain the hubble anymore, how about transfering it to ESA? (petty nationalistic interests aside.)
Err, wait. I retract my statement. I was thinking of the Canadarm.
I'm surprised someone modded me insightful already.
Dextre is a clever name for a two armed robot. In classical latin Dexter is the right hand and Sinister is the left hand. That is why we call people who have "two right hands" ambi-dexterous. I'm not going to make any jokes about left handed people being sinister in case they ended up with all the mod points today.
Okay, we've proven that we're good at building huge robotic arms. Canada == Huge arms in space. Now what about some legs, eh? Then, once we have the legs, if we put some funding into it we could put the two together and build some giant Canada-space-mechs. It's cool even without the "giant robot" factor.
1. Build huge space-mechs
2. ???
3. Profit!
It practically sells itself!
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
First they built the big Arm thing that goes inside a shuttle.
Now they've made a cylinder with two arms! and a wiener-prod.
What will they think of next?
But seriously, I think it's great if Hubble can be repaired. More power to you guys.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Are we going to run back to mommy every time we stub our toes in space?
Being on the frontier is dangerous; every single one of the astronauts knows this and signed up for it.
If any of them don't want to fly Space Shuttle missions anymore, then don't make them. But I'm sure enough would volunteer for a manned Hubble repair mission that it wouldn't be a problem.
Besides, we need to keep Hubble going; The Webb telescope is NOT a replacement for Hubble - it looks at different wavelengths; if we could ever get both of them operating at the same time they could be used in a complimentary fashion.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
Here's a good link from the Canadian Space Agency's web site on Dextre (Special Purpose Dexterous Manipulator): http://www.space.gc.ca/asc/eng/csa_sectors/human_p re/iss/mss_spdm.asp
Canadians would've been first to the moon too, if they could've decided whether to call the mission "Moonshot One" or "Premier Projectile de Lune"
Seriously, I thought Hubble was joint NASA/EU Space Agency. Sure you're not thinking of the splendidly self deprecating Humble Space Telescope
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Well, actually, do you want to claim the most famously (mis)manufactured bit, the myopic mirror, which I believe was made by Perkin Elmer, or at least tested by them. They appear to be in the US, though I am willing to believe it was a group of kanuckle-heads. The difference between precision and accuracy is an important one...
Is the $1.6B cost of this in US or CA funds? 'Cause I got about $1.6B Canadian back in change from my Value Meal yesterday...
--AC
Too bad all the competing projects do not work together. If the Hubble telescope was 'designed' for docking, it could have been pulled to the ISS and attached.
Since the seemingly forgotten ISS needs inhabitant refreshes every so often, the cost for upkeep of both could be lessened - parts could be sent w/the new batch and damaged parts returned w/old.
last I checked, the mirror in question was destined for one of those KH11 NSA satellites, when it was discovered it was flawed. then they decided to give it to astronomy...
Actually, I wouldn't have been surprised. When the comment was made "we built it" my first thought was "Yeah, well that probably explains the optics... Maybe we shouldn't have just ground up our empties to save some money."
Apparently, as good as Keiths is, the bottles just don't make good scientific-grade optics...
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
Dextre is a very versatile robotic tool. It can work solo, fixed to one of the base points (known as power data grapple fixtures) along the side of the Station or on the Mobile Base System.
From the link you provided.
I'd assume it is running solo.
The pride of Nova Scotia serves better purposes.
MD Robotics has played a vital role in NASA space programs. It's the same company that has built the CanadaArm and CanadaArm2 and is now providing with Special Purpose Dexterous Manipulator for HST.
I am very proud to see Canada (and MD Robotics, since it has a development lab in my hometown) play a vital role in ISS (with CanadaArm and CA2) and now the HST.
Welcome to Slashdot. A community.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
You're right. They probably used the Molson bottles. Now that I think of it, Keiths bottles probably WOULD make good scientific optics.
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
A shuttle launch costs at least $500 million not including the enormous fixed costs of shuttle related centers and personnel. Add that to the risk of defying the Columbia investigation recommendations and the political reality of public support for the Hubble pork barrel and I'd say the figure sounds reasonable. Furthermore, the mission stands to give a big boost to robotics in general.
an ill wind that blows no good
However, most of our (Canada's) Research has gone into underwater exploration. This only makes sense since over 80% of our border is coastline. This is where to look for examples of canadian robotics.
Other examples of advances from canadians is some of the more advanced Meterology satallites that have been designed and developed here in our humble country.
For some references you can check out..
The ISE Laval University
and a list of others
DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
Does it seem like NASA made the most publically sucsessful project into a false sacrificial lamb in order that they might both increase their budget by special appropriation and appear to be managing their budget by cutting costs on supposedly outdated hardware.
It seems that their gambit is paying off. The public (ok, a bunch of geeks) wailed loud enough that congress is willing to consider special funding.
-- The morphemes of your disquisition are ascertainable, but they have eschewed an ambit of transpicuous exposition.
This would also set a precedent for adding new capability instead of spending huge sums to maintain the old stuff. Why shouldn't we have several Hubble-type scopes instead of just one, anyway?
Sustainability and energy independence essay
Robot Mandark and Robot Dextre went at it in the depths of space over who would be able to repair the Hubble telescope better.
Hubble sees very well in the visible and the near UV, so if we want full-spectrum coverage of unknown objects we are not going to be able to get it with just the Webb telescope.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
Over 80% of NASA's budget already goes to the private sector. the requested 2005 budget was on the order of $16 billion.
Just as a comparison:
DOD's 2005 budget is nearly $400 billion, and I don't think that includes the extras for the war in iraq.
if your a US citizen you get you chance in November to decide where your money is being best spent.
Perhaps you're thinking of the Humble space telescope, or properly MOST? (Darn thing looks like a suitcase-size Kodak.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
unless you make it from old Klein bottles!
Sustainability and energy independence essay
The whole organization should be nuked
from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
We have the mod points everyday, Dexter...
--
You can't even do our secret handshake
HOSERS HOBBLE HUBBLE!
:)
Would be an appropriate headline for the newspapers, I think
Put one of these on each of the remaining space shuttles so taht they can perform tile observation/repair, etc. when necessary without risking any lives.
I for one welcome our new Canadian overlords. And as a Canadian, I will be happy to round up americans to work in our subterranean robotic mines!
Why do you think the Canadian government is so against the weaponisation of space? So when the space-mechs are launched, there will be nothing that can stop them. And what do you think we've been doing with all that money we're not putting into conventional military equipment?
Similarly, the X-Prize is just a front for the daVinci Project, the real purpose is so we can continue to launch space-mechs when all the rest of the worlds' launch pads are smoking holes.
Look like they already worked that out... is that an ORU Temporary Platform on your chassis, or are you just happy to see me?
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
You only use 2% of your DNA
Have people considered where NASA is getting this money for Hubble when they had not planned on saving it? Something else must be cut since NASA is on a tight budget. And this something else is a lot of earth sciences. So while we are looking into space, we are not studying as many important topics on earth.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
Let's not forget another Canadian technological triumph, the Avro Arrow.
According to the most reliable sources I've been able to find, the Avro Arrow...
"Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive" -- hey, that's me!
Like the arm, it's a teleoperator, controlled by somebody with joysticks.
Given how much a shuttle flight costs, it would probably be cheaper to just run off another copy of the Hubble and launch that.
Rutan can barely escape the atmosphere. I don't think his little "space pod" of a toy rocket will ever make it into orbit. The amount of energy required is immense. Just look at the space shuttle, It's a cock pit strapped onto a giant fuel tank. What you really need is an all purpose space craft (maybe like Rutan's??) to be docked at the ISS for these little missions so that you don't have to come into orbit for every little mission.
deposit $0.02
Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right. --Isaac Asimov
"Dextre" is an adjective for someone who is good w/ his hands (adroit, skilled, ...). While English doesn't seem to have kept detre, it has kept dexterity from french:
Dexterity \Dex*ter"i*ty\, n. [L. dexteritas, fr. dexter: cf. F.
dext['e]rit['e]. See Dexter.]
2. Readiness and grace in physical activity; skill and ease
in using the hands; expertness in manual acts; as,
dexterity with the chisel.
Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
Relax. People make fun of Americans all the time. When we take harmless jokes personally, we look like humorless bozos, don't we? Right! So do you, dumbass.
As for why all your decent comedians end up in the US, I think you've given me the answer: I can imagine a comedian telling some stupid men-and-women-are-different joke, and an entire Canadian audience getting up in unison, calling the Mounties on their cell phones, and having the poor dumb bastard arrested for "hate speech".
Don't forget to take off first. That's important.
Well, if the HST is wobbling, those Canucks will just give it some beer, and that'll make it more stable, eh?
DISCLAIMER [required for the humor-impaired under the Americans with Disabilities Act] -- This is not intended to be offensive to Canadians.
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Dextre has a sibling robot named Dee-Dee, which is always messing up his work.
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Hum, I always thought of the US as the 11th Province personally. I never will understand the US arrogance however, without Canada there would be no US space program, there would have been no moon landings, no phones, the list grows and grows...
when in doubt press enter and we'll figure it out later..
Those of you who defend technology and globalism, I hope you can look an unemployed American astronaut in the eye while you explain your position. And be sure to explain who is going to put food on his family.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
That's only one tenth of the total NASA yearly budget. Definitely worthwhile so we can have pretty pictures for the few years between the Hubble and the James Webb.
This should be interesting... let's see how this one is spun. First it was BUSH HATES SCIENCE! I'm guessing we'll be back to BUSH IS PROPPING UP HIS CORPORATE CRONIES WITH CONTRACTS this time. Or do I hear a conspiracy theory dealing with how this was all a underhanded ploy to get more funding than originally provisioned?
Honestly, I'm probably not creative enough to come up with a high-quality spin. *sigh*
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
hahah, nice song at least Canadians do not need a foreign body to oversee our elections...hahahaha have fun
when in doubt press enter and we'll figure it out later..
I always chuckle when Canadians take credit for inventing the phone. Bell was a Scotsman! He had the idea while in Brantford and before he became an American, but I would say that was more coincidental as he hadn't spent that much time in Canada at that point.
I'm not going to make any jokes about left handed people being sinister in case they ended up with all the mod points today.
Okay, it's been a few years since I was in Latin class, but...
As I recall, the word 'sinister' picked up its present connotation for just this reason. Supposedly (according to my teacher, anyway), since lefties are a statistical minority (what is it--8% of the populace now?) the Romans believed that there was something wrong with anyone who was left-handed. This was attributed to evil spirits or somesuch inhabiting the person. Hence the association of 'sinister' and 'evil'. Really!
Anyone else heard this, or was my Latin teacher full of it?
--Ribald
That's all fine and dandy that your giant arm can fix a telescope, but let's put it to a test that counts, stick it in the box with Vlad The Impaler.
---
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who don't know how, supervise
who cares about the bottles, it's what's inside that counts: the best beer in the world! or at least in the Americas.
Here we go again!
According to this:t m
http://science.howstuffworks.com/hubble2.h
The HST cost $2.2B US to build. I'm guessing it might be cheaper to replace the thing after the original is serviced 3 times, but how will you know that it will need three servicings?
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
If Canada is fixing the HST, they might as well fix the PST and GST while they are at it.
I watched NASA TV durring the first service mission. The astronauts had problems closing the doors on the telescope. I'm wondering how a robot would be able to close doors. Especially when those doors look like they do not align properly.
I stand corrected. I know I read it somewhere, but I can't seem to find it anymore, making me doubt my memory integrity..
I did some searching, here is the comany that deserves the honor: http://www.asi-space.com/
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
Eh??
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
what if its just not funny?
The net result is that if the conservatives would have won, they could have pointed-out that the ballot boxes could very well have been tampered with without any means of ascertaining so.
Posting without spelling mistakes makes you insightful regardless of facts :)
karma capped
Dude, get a life. You make other canadians look bad.
So they hijacked the name of the continent. Big freaking deal. Rather than whining that the big bad Americans are forgetting how great Canada is(and bringing up that ancient act of terror whose only purpose seems to be to inflame Americans), why not sit back and be glad you're living in the greatest nation in the world?
Remember: It doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks of us. Enjoy being what you are, rather than getting mad because others aren't.
It's been a long time.
Hey -- I went to school in freaking manitoba. Imagine how useful french classes are in manitoba.
For the Americans reading, it's about as useful as spanish classes in North Dakota.
It's been a long time.
I guess the Shuttle Space Arm, and now this, still counts for making up of sacking the White House ;-)
Could you be quiet? I'm TRYING to enjoy some poutine here!!
It's been a long time.
Is it me - or are there a lot of canadian robots coming up?
I think I am going to have to start writing entries for all these in the Robot Knowledge Center.
How many robot building slashdotters are there out there?
OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
a particular department of my employer that i used to work in had 7 of us...all left handed... I live in the UK...population ~60 million, you do the maths (math for those less able to cope with the english Language)
My other OS is also FreeBSD
Contrast this to the "fiscally responsible" "republican" USA...
i am the public
No, you are a retard.
I hope the robot be wears a little Mountie uniform.
I am speaking of the coureagous act , of valor , integrity solidarity and selfless disregard for its own safety act of saving 800 000 lives that Canada did that day and that the people of the US Have yet to officially acknowledge to this day.
I don't think I know what you're talking about. What happened to save 800,000 lives?
Dude , if your drug taking is clouwding your mind and disrepecting your fellow countryman and ancestor , and maybe teacher ( not sure you whent to highschool and add geographical class), just stay out of this discussion.
What exactly are you saying?
It's been a long time.
For the record.
Thanks Google.
The Hubble Space Telescope uses a single mirror,
and the onboard instruments provide a broad
spectrum (including visible light) sensitivity.
The proposed Webb Telescope is NOT a direct
replacement. The Webb telescope uses an array
of smaller mirrors to obtain its sensitivity,
AND it is IR (infrared spectrum) ONLY.
I see, you're being melodramatic. What we did was a nice gesture, but to suggest that it was heroic, or that if we hadn't that 800,000 people would have died is just silly. I should remind you that we WEREN'T the ones under attack, and even if we WERE, and had closed our airspace as well, neither the US or Canada would have let those planes just run out of fuel and crash!!
It would seem that this conversation is over. Grow up, and work on your english BEFORE you start hurling insults attacking my bloodline.
Odds are, you didn't even understand my original message. Lord knows I didn't understand yours, which is why I asked you, "What exactly are you saying?".
It's been a long time.
But I'd bet that there are some significant costs in manufacturing another one based on custom fabrication. My guess is that whatever templates were used in original construction are no longer available, and some of the folks that did the original work are no longer in the workforce. Some of the original engineering costs would be reduced, but the learning curve associated with the manufacturing of another one would not be small.
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
"In 1979-80, state-of-the-art optics fabrication still relied on highly skilled opticians using manually controlled tooling and delicate hand polishing techniques. Today, using sophisticated computer numerical control tooling and equipment, such as waterjet cutting and ion figuring processes, Kodak fabricates similar mirrors in just a few weeks. To learn about Kodak's current large optics manufacturing capabilities, see Precision Optics & Systems."
(Reposted a fourth time, thanks to terminal moderator assholiness who waste precious moderator points on such stupid affairs)...