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Controversial StarForce Copy Protection Creators Quizzed
Thanks to FiringSquad for its interview with the creators of the StarForce copy protection scheme for PC videogames. The author explains: "In recent months there's been an increasing awareness and alarm over StarForce copy protection. It's actually a driver that installs itself with the [Windows] games that come shipped with it, and originally it didn't uninstall when the game was uninstalled." StarForce's Abbie Sommer argues the advantages of "driver-level copy protection", explaining: "The drivers are what prevents the use of kernel debugger utilities such as SoftICE, Cool Debugger, Soft Snoop etc. Also the drivers prevent emulators from spoofing a drive, and thwart burning tools such as Alcohol 120%." The author concludes by injecting a little personal opinion into the mix, arguing: "PC games will never go away, but if the market keeps shrinking due to the increasing ease of piracy... then the number and quality of games will almost certainly decrease."
That is really a pain. I image all my game CD's and use daemon tools to mount them. I play upto 4 different games a night. Currently playing Fallout Tactics, Rise of Nations, NWN and Shattered Galaxy. I hate having to switch CD's. This driver will make it so even games that are not protected by it cannot no longer be mounted virtually. If I have to reformat my HD to get rid of it if I install a game that has it, I am going to have a serious talk to the game company using it if it costs me 3-8 hours to wipe my HD and reinstall all my games and utilites from scratch. I used to bill my time at US$200/hour. I should send a bill to the gaming company for putting a virus on my system that just cost me a day's work.
I thought everytime a new device was installed or driver, windows would ask you if you want to have it installed regardless of the fact it is WHQL signed. Please, is there a group policy I can change to not alow ANY drivers be it real or virtual to be installed without my explicit permission?
Life is not for the lazy.
Brad Wardell (Galactic Civilizations, etc) has some thoughts on piracy and the problems with PC games:
google groups link here
http://www.balorn.net/
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Gee, do you think this attitude might force a lot of people to conclude that PC games are such a pain they might as well buy a console and play there?
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
This is such an apologist piece. From author's viewpoint, this is a done deal, copy protection is a necessity, and he doesn't address the issue of fair use at all. When I buy my videogames, I rarely install them, instead preferring to find a cracked version first, so I don't have to deal with all of the crap, like unwanted driver installations, that I don't know if I'm getting. The guys at Penny Arcade have said the same as well.
I don't play games without purchasing them (though I did as a student, because I was poor then. If I hadn't then, I probably wouldn't have the gaming drive now that causes me to purchase all of the games I do.), and I'm starting to buy less and less PC games because of the crap I have to deal with. Do you hear that, developers? That is the sound of lost sales.
I bought XIII, which had some protection that caused the graphics and performance to slowly degrade if the CD is not in the drive. Normally, I would have kept that game to play again in the future, but instead I found someone who was looking to buy it, and gave it to them instead. One more lost sale.
Could you imagine if a PS2 game you bought installed updated CD/DVD drivers on the memory card, and it caused problems with reading other discs? How about if you couldn't play games on your PS2 just becaused you owned an Action Replay disc? They can be used to play copied games too, you know. This sort of crap is unacceptable, and developers who realize that are in a unique position to capture extra market share. Sure, writing a crappy game won't get you sales, but with two equally good games, there are definitely people who will choose the one that doesn't treat them like a criminal if they know there is a difference.
... this is a pretty interesting point. Cedega (formerly WineX) does not have support for most of the new copy protection mechanisms around, and mentions as much in their documentation. This means that you can install and run pirated games in Linux that you wouldn't be able to in Windows.
I mention this not to promote piracy, but because it raises an interesting legal point - Transgaming are technically selling a product that allows you to circumvent copy protection - granted, in a very broad sense. But I wonder how long they'll be allowed to proceed before getting smacked down under the new US laws designed to prevent this sort of thing.
"By Grabthar's Hammer, what a savings."
I seem to recall some software a few years back which came with a dongle, I also seem to recall that someone managed to fake that dongle so you can pirate the software anyway. Take a lesson here people, if you can't stop piracy with hardware you sure as hell can't do it will software, in all reality Paladium(assuming it ever shows up) probably won't stop piracy. This is for a simple reason, for every guy out there trying to come up with ways to prevent piracy there are at least 100 attempting to circumvent it, and these guys are really really good. There's a lesson here, a lesson we should all have learned a long, long, long time ago, because it's been true since the first copy protection ever implemented. ALL COPY PROTECTION DOES IS INCONVENIENCE THE LEGITIMATE USER. Sorry to have shouted that, but I wouldn't want someone to miss that one. No method of copy protection every created has stopped people from pirating software and the only way I can see that changing any time in the forseeable future.
"PC games will never go away, but if the market keeps shrinking due to the increasing ease of piracy... then the number and quality of games will almost certainly decrease."
:-P
Almost a perfect quote from computer mags 10 years ago, yet World of Warcraft, Neverwinter Nights 2, Half-Life 2, etc are under development. How can that be? Games constantly rise in technical quality and complexity, and it's not uncommon these days to have games in development for 4 years or more. It's BIG business.
In contrast, if predictions like that were true, we'd probably play something like Alien Invaders 2000 by now.
Personally, I think -- yes, piracy is bad if you don't buy the games you actually like. In other cases, I find it to be very useful. That games have demo versions isn't a given, especially not demo versions you can try out before a game hits the store to decide if you should get it. A perfect way to boycott junk game publishers very conveniently without having to go back to stores and returning games.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
"PC games will never go away, but if the market keeps shrinking due to the increasing ease of piracy... then the number and quality of games will almost certainly decrease."
I can see the the logic of this, but couldn't a capitalist argue that Piracy creates a new market force vaguely resembling competition. One could argue if that statement is true, that Piracy actually forces the Games makers not to put out wasteful crap like they all to often do (come on more than 50% are crap with no audience) and force them to make stuff live up to competition. IE, if the game sucks I'd probably pirate it, if its good then I'll drive to Software Etc and pick it up.
Of course one can urge that now the companies have to waste time and money on anti piracy software in the process and that there are games that would appear to have no audience but they create one. (Pokemon, Conker, etc, etc)
I hope the above is coherent, too late in the night to post, I just wanted to see what my thoughts would crop up.
forget it.
1.make the games better so people are more inclined to pay for them
2.stop charging a fortune, the cheaper they are the more likely someone will buy them
3.include better stuff in the box (e.g. a printed manual, mabie a poster of the main character or something)
4.use CD keys for online access to play multiplayer games
5.make valid CD keys a requirement to access extra stuff (like how you need a vaid CD key to get onto the official Neverwinter Nights forums or how you need a valid CD key to install patches for some versions of Borland Delphi)
6.make it easier to get replacement disks if yours are damaged/scratched/unreadable (i.e. send us the broken disks and some small amount to cover postage and we will send you a new copy of the game). Obviously it wouldnt apply for older stuff that they dont have anymore...
7.in addition to a paper manual, how about a PDF manual straight on the CD so that when the paper manual goes missing, you have a replacement.
And many of the commercials on TV say "Own it now" etc.. or "Own it now on video and dvd" in the case of movies etc, so by their own admission you now own it having purchased it.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Since drivers run at Ring 0, the driver could crash the OS kernel. And this could open the door for malicious code that crashes machines with games that have that driver.
I was bitten by poorly written software installed on my system by a game I had installed. I never realized the thing had installed a program that launched at startup and continued to run. Once a minute it would go out to the manufacture's site and do who knows what. I was playing Tribes and noticed that every so off my link would get bad, about once a minute. I thought it was my ISP. While sitting watching TV I had happened to leave Task Manager up and running. I saw the CPU go to 100% for a couple of seconds. That peaked my interest. Sorted on CPU usage and waited and sure enough it happened again. I found the offending process, terminated it, did some checking and found out it had been installed by this game. AND it turned out this was what was causing Tribes to freeze ever so often. Honestly I don't mind authors trying to protect their software, but hey, leave my system alone. There are enough buggy drivers I have to live with without someone adding something else that can crash the entire system. And I wonder how long it will take for someone to create a hacked version of the driver that will negate their efforts?
My brothers Diablo II LOD cd recently exploded (literally) in his drive. Called up the distributor and they said that they'd take his details and would look into it. We thought that this was just a brush off but the next day a brand new CD arrived via express post complete with a new cd-key as well.
How many times have you actually tried to get a replacement CD from a distributor?
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0x00
This is the total truth. I so wanted to buy Far Cry. It sounded like an awesome game... and then I found out that it won't run if you have Daemon Tools on your system. That's absolute bullshit that they should be able to dictate what other software I am allowed to have on my PC. I use Daemon Tools for legitimate purposes. The only .isos on my computer are either linux .isos or legitimate software that I have purchased. I have never once ran a cracked game from Daemon tools. But you know what? Far Cry's copy protection made me want to do just that. I never bought the game because of this copy protection and the only reason that I didn't find a pirated copy was becuase I'm too lazy to search the warez sites for it. I make enough money to buy all of my games these days, and I always do just to try to support the developers that make good games. Now, if only there were some way that I could let Far Cry's publishers know that I didn't buy their game and why. Oh, and make them care.
If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.
I noticed on that list that there are several demos. It is completely unacceptable that a demo could install this dubious software, when it's distribution does not constitute piracy in anyone's terms. I hope these games give users a warning about what they are going to install.
Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
Already installed. What's next? Booting directly from the game CD into a custom anti-piracy OS and disabling any access to Windows?
It's not "back to the future", it's "forward to the past".
Back in the early '80s I bought a game for the Apple ][ called "Wizardry". This game had an extremely delicate copy protection mechanism that depended on matching the speed of the disk to a timer. I used to play it on three or four different Apples at different times, and there were slight variations in the speed of the disks. After a while, I could no longer play the game except on one particular machine... the drive speed on that machine had apparently been changing slightly over time and the copy protection had adapted the floppy to it.
Eventually I went to one of the local pirates and did something I'd never done before... begged a cracked game off him. I actually had him copy a cracked version of Wizardry on top of my original diskette. It was the only way I could depend on being able to run it.
Seriously, in the not-too-distant future, I imagine the first thing I do after I buy a new game is to go download the pirated version.
"You're safe and sound now, back in good old 1982."
That was just unacceptable, so I did the only thing I could do to play the game I purchased: pirate it.
Not playing games is a sign of being an adult? I guess that's going to be some crushing news to my grandparents who still play bridge and scrabble on a near-daily basis.
Seriously, I can't stand self-righteous pricks who equate game-playing with immaturity. If you want to take life so seriously as to not allow yourself a bit of liesure time, go right ahead, but don't make the foolish mistake of taking a holier-than-thou attitude simply because you have some sort of bullshit hangup derived from Corithians 13:11 or some misguided belief that creative and imaginitve play is not as important for an adult as it is for a child.
Ryosen
One man's "Troll, +1" is another man's "Insightful, +1".
Well, HERE is a good starting point. Isn't the internet wolderful?
The last game that I purchased (that did not come bundled with hardware) was Knights of the Old Republic. And to LucasArts credit, it said in big red letters on the bottom that it used technology to prevent copying. I am very much looking forward to KOTOR2, but if they use StarForce, then either I will pass, or I will wait until a crack exists before purchasing the game.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
Well, the crackers *could* have inserted a malicious payload into the game. On the other hand, the manufacturers *certainly* have. Not to mention that cracking groups usually do that sort of stuff for cred, and distributing viruses wouldn't do much for that. Plus the sad fact that I trust the integrity of crackers more than I do the integrity of a publishing house.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
Yup, I hear that.
I made the mistake of 'activating' NFS3 that came with my tnt card I bought years back. I enjoyed the game, played it thoroughly, put the CD on the shelf somewhere.
Fast forward to earlier this year -- the machine where NFS3 was installed is gone, obsolete and recycled for parts. I have a newer machine that I'd like to play NFS3 on -- New force feedback steering wheel and everything.
I have the CD and it works fine, but I need to activate the product in order to play it. Surprise, doesn't work. The website and email address and phone number are all gone. Googling around finds that they went under and someone else bought up their assets.
Call them and finally reach someone who says "game is over 5 years old, we don't support new activations". Not new activation - reactivation on new machine. I'm allowed to do this eight times -- no mention of a time limit. I paid $20 to play this game that came with my vid card, and I wanna play it some more.
They were supposed to look into it and get back. Never heard from them. I guess this is a $20 lesson. I don't want to play the game badly enough to waste any more time over it.
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.