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ATITD2 Early Impressions
Darniaq writes "While a relatively small game as defined by player count, A Tale in the Desert was a rather robust experiment into just how much crafting a massive online gamer would like to do. The game is also more evocative of a massive online real-time strategy game than a roleplaying one ala Everquest or City of Heroes. And now there's a sequel. The staff at Grimwell.com has temporarily relocated to Egypt, and provides a live report."
For the windows client: http://www.filerush.com/torrents/atitd2.exe.torren t
Every time I see ATITD I think it's Alone In The Dark (calssic pre-resident evil survival horror game), fsking dslexyia.
Yes, all I ever wanted to do on an online MMO was grind... yup, nothing else. Grind grind grind grind grind, woohoo so much fun it feels like work! But instead of getting payed, I pay them, sweet! /sarcasm
"Besides arguing, there is another way to resolve bigger conflicts: the law. Unlike any other game, players are allowed, within certain limits, to change the rules of the game. For this they first need to write a petition outlining the law they want to introduce, for example not allowing players to place their house closer than 100 feet to another player's house. They then need to collect a certain number of signatures from other players that support this petition."
"For example the first test of Art requires that you build a statue, and get 20 players to look at it and judge it interesting."
"ATITD is a very social game, supporting both individual and collective achievement. It is possible for everyone to just playing for himself, but not very effective. To advance your personal path through the tech tree, you often need tools that are quite expensive to build but infrequently used. So forming a guild which shares its tools makes a lot of sense. Public-spirited individuals or guilds can even make their tools available for use to everybody else.
So while there is no combat, there is most certainly the possibility of conflict. Sharing property in a group is not always easy. And everything you do, affects the other players. Build a house in which to place your tools, and at the very least you prevent somebody else from placing a house at the same spot, or block somebody else's view. Build and operate a mine, and you will cause pollution, making somebody else's sheep sick and flax wither. You are changing the world all the time, and that can have positive or negative consequences."
My prediction: This game is absolutely ripe for the picking by people who are good at backstabbing and sycophantry. People who are highly skilled and socially unskilled will be reduced to workerbees, while the PHB types will wind up cliquing their way to the top and lording it over the rest. I can't wait to see this...
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
The linux client: http://www.filerush.com/torrents/eClient-linux-i68 6.run.torrent
Shouldn't that be "gnikcsf aixelsyd" ?
here
HOW'S MY POSTING? CALL 1-800-POSTING
just how much crafting a massive online gamer would like to do
Perhaps they should craft themselves some running shoes, and lose some of that mass?
Curiosity was framed. Ignorance killed the cat.
Few players.
Game all crafting.
Crafting mean make stuff.
Some think crafting fun.
Me think crafting suck.
*Grunt*
Ogg hungry now. Kill lamb for eat!
More and more realistic games, imitating life in so many subtle ways. Yes, to grow carrots you need water and jugs to carry water and soil to plant the seeds in...
I wonder why one doesn't just go outside and experience that free-for-ever massive online game called REAL LIFE!
I assure you: it has far more surprises, and is far more difficult than anything you ever tried on your computer.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
the law appears for several days in voting booths distributed over all of Egypt, and players can vote on it. If the law gets a two-thirds majority, the developers will then change the game code to implement it
:)
Cool. Now we (yes, I live there) can get to vote on our laws in a computer game, at least
Blearf. Blearf, I say.
honestly. "early impressions" of some two-bit MMO game? is there a shortage on real news or something?
This is exactly the pattern of old MUSHes and MOOs -- the 'nerd' type will sit and create, and the 'social networker' type will form a overclass that ultimately decides the atmosphere and direction of the community.
There will always be 2 approaches to getting 20 people to say your statue is interesting:
1 -- Build an interesting statue.
2 -- Flirt.
Still, it's interesting to watch the patterns develop... I might even try playing in fact.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Collecting wood is a simple as clicking on a tree, then waiting 60 seconds for the wood to respawn.
What fun! That's definitely worth $13.95/month. I can't wait for the "paint drying" mod.
While (a relatively small game as defined by player count), ([A Tale in the Desert] was a rather robust experiment into (just how much crafting [a massive online gamer] would like to do).
In other words,
1) A Tale in the Desert is a small game, yet
2) It is a rather robost experiment into:
3) Just how much crafting a massive online gamer is willing to do.
The only stupid part about the sentence is the term 'massive online gamer', which implies a massive guy sitting around playing a game. Now, this may be true in many cases, but certainly not all.
It is the game itself that is massively multiplayer ... not the gamers.
"While a relatively small game as defined by player count"
ATITD has a small user base compared to massively multiplayer games like EverQuest or DAoC. Of course player count is only one way to define a game's size, you could also refer to depth or amount of content.
"A Tale in the Desert was a rather robust experiment into just how much crafting a massive online gamer would like to do"
Crafting is one of the things nearly all MMRPGs have - a crafter refines resources and builds new items from them. The amount of crafting an MMRPG has varies, in ATITD it was basically the focus of the gameplay (along with social interaction). In other MMRPGs that would be combat.
The wording "a massive online gamer" should probably be "a gamer of massively multiplayer online games", although that's a fairly obvious mistake.
So in conclusion, due to the focus on crafting, ATITD was in a way an experiment if players would be content with this gameplay style. Since it was a very thorough experiment, it was also robust. It was an experiment because nobody tried that before, at least not to the extremes ATITD did.
HTH.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
at least we're being honest here
As Samuel Clemens once pseudomonously wrote, and I now paraphrase: "There are wealthy men, who at great expense hire coaches and dress in their Sunday finery to be driven about the countryside. Yet if those same men were approached with the same carriage and coat and asked to ride the coach for pay; they would refuse, because that activity would be the provenance of work and not fun at all."
While you advocate a return to "real life", which you find to be fun, challenging and difficult; there are others who couldn't care two figs and a rolling boll weevil for your opinion of the grandiosity of the real world. That we are paid in the real world for performing the same real activities as imagined activities makes those activities the provenance of work, even if all we are paid in is satisfaction of a job well done. We wish to have fun and at great expense we pay others to give us fun. That is our choice and it is the right one for us.
So, I propose a solution: you have your fun on the cheap, as it were, in real life and let those of us who can afford to have our fun at great expense to do so. Our chosen activity injures you not at all and complaining because our form of entertainment is not your chosen form of entertainment is not only useless, but massively condescending. I don't remember inviting you to condescend to me.
..was burned for saying that exact same thing.
First the good. You could download the game and play for free to see if you liked it. This is a very, very good thing. That the Star Wars Galaxies & others don't do this says a lot. There is also a Linux client.
The free period has some restrictions on what you can do, but it gives a good taster for the game. So I paid for an extra month and played during that period.
Additionally the play world is truly massive. You can wander around, find a spot by the river and start building a little village. Join a guild and everyone can start communal factories specialising in one thing or another. In theory therefore you have a little community and you could barter with another community, specialise in one particular thing and so forth. Still, you have to good at doing something and that means a lot of time is spent producing 'things' to trade with.
If you become bored by the constant grind of producing items you can become an artist or a politician. For example a politician can have laws enacted into the game (e.g. rotten flax becomes public property after 20 minutes). An artist can make sculptures that others can rate. There is also points to be had for leading newbies through their initial tests, so you'll find yourself being helped as soon as you enter the game.
As the world as a whole advances you can contribute surplus items to advance the world's technology. For example give enough of one thing and oil suddenly becomes available and with it items that require oil as a component.
Did I mention there was no killing? Yup the whole game is communally based, although there was a ritualised combat game (think Yuh-gi-oh) you could play, though I never did.
Now the bad. The intent of the game is that you wander the desert and set up shop where you start weaving, baking bricks etc. This becomes exceptionally tedious. Making anything is extremely long winded. Collect straw and mud to make bricks, dry bricks on a rack (made from wood you gathered and planed), make a kiln, pour water on mud to get clay, spin clay into pots, fire pots, use pots to collect water to make more pots. Look forward to this because this is your life. If you're not doing that you're growing flax, collecting thorns to make a flax comb etc. Did I mention it is tedious? If you're lucky, you find some generous soul has donated some equipment such as kilns and forges to the community. If you're unlucky you'll have to make them from scratch too. The tedium can be broken by creating works of art, or fishing or other pursuits, but this game is one long Skinner box. That's not to say other MMPORGs are any different, but ATITD turns it into an artform.
Now the world is massive, but it looks the same. The graphics are pretty sucky too. I'm sure the real Egypt is grass and sand too, but it could still be made more interesting than it is. Wandering from one end of the world to the other to collect seeds or fungus, takes ages and is also very tedious even when you gain waypoints
So all in all, ATITD feels more like a brave but failed attempt to produce a communal game.
It's hard to tell what the second version is like without downloading it (the screenshots are postage stamp size), but my opinion is that ATITD2 would be better if it included:
Why not a setup as seen in the game Anachronox on the planet Democratus? They're so democratic, every issue is voted on. So democratic, voting is mandatory (IIRC if you don't vote you get executed). Also, since the public is dumb and easily influenced, they set up the high council, which has eight members. Of course, in best democratic traditon the vote of a councilmember doesn't count more than the vote of a normal citizen, but voting different from the council can lead to torture or execution.
On the other hand it could turn out the way the Weimarer Republik did...
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Another similar MMO is the poorly-named 'Second Life', published by SF Based Linden Labs. Which is an entirely player-maintained MMO. (ie: 99.95%+ of items, events & actions are built, run & maintained by players).
It mixes some features of ATiTD with a much wider array of customisability (mostly through the in-world C-like scripting language 'LSL'), and can in turn be more interesting purely from creative possibilities. (Since there is no 'levels', 'skill points', it's entirely based on your own prior experience as to what you are capable of), ignoring the incredibly poor choice of name, it actually is more like a proper 3DVR platform mixed with some MMO elements, that what the name implies. (also see ActiveWorlds for a much more primitive similar design). If your interested, there's a 7 day trial availible (with refferal / without refferal link). Worth checking out as well as ATiTD.
-Adam
#!/bin/csh cat $0
A TIT D, for 200$ Trebek!
Got MILF? It does a body good!
As opposed to clicking on a rat to kill it, and then waiting for it to respawn? Well, gee, that's got to be so more exciting. Not.
Oh yeah, and better go solo at the end of nowhere. You wouldn't want to share that precioussss xp with other players. No time to lose! Gotta race to the next level, where you'll be allowed to beat slightly larger rats with a slightly larger stick.
And be sure to delude yourself that everyone will envy your über-levelled up character. Be sure to attach a list of characters and levels to every post. Yeah, that'll make everyone envious. Chicks will start begging you to let them bear your child because you have a level 50 sorcerer. Not.
See, your average MMORPG is boring, repetitive, mindless _work_. Unskilled blue-collar third-world manual labor. So repetitive and mindless, that a small shell script or zMud script could do that better. It's a brain-dead threadmill, for compulsive mouse-clickers.
They also try to outdo each other in cattering for soloers and anti-social types. I mean, phbt. Just because it's a MMO game, doesn't mean it ought to involve any social interaction. It obviously ought to involve everyone trying to avoid each other at all cost, and shout "kill stealer!" if you even get within 1000 yards of them. Right?
So, I don't know... a game which actually tries to promote at least _some_ interaction, seems to me like an improvement. Because the standard MMOs don't even need a "paint drying" mod. They're already at that point for me.
Getting 20 people to look at your statue is already a lot less boring than clicking on 20 rats to kill. It involves interaction. It also opens a lot more diverse possibilities than the mindless repetitive killing. You might simply bribe them. Or you might make some online friends. Or you might just go harrass every single stranger and hope some will take pity and help you pass the test. Etc.
Either way, it's not something you can solo out at the end of nowhere. You actually _need_ other players for that level-up.
Other tests can be even more extreme than that. Did you really make friends in that game or just acquaintances? How well do you know them? How far would you trust them? If one of them could steal a large part of your virtual wealth _and_ know there'd never be any proof against them, are you sure they wouldn't? See, that's something you can't pass by mindless repetitive clicking, either on rats or trees.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I played ATITD and loved it. I was part of the guild that built the first Deep Well Mine and helped open up the petrolium tech tree. Many of the tasks that were very tedious at the beginning of the game (like growing flax or making bricks) grew less so as technology advanced - you could fill a brick making machines with supplies and let it run while you were logged off, for example. You would log back in some hours later and 500 bricks would be waiting for you.
All I can say is don't knock it until you've tried it.
My username does not make me Apathetic. It's irony, get it?
Most people would prefer nearer to the 'top' of the 'heap' than not. If there is only one 'top' of one 'heap' than only a small percentage of the population can be happy (I'll defer an exact definition of happy).
In other words, everyone wants to feel special.
Fortunately, in real life there are multiple 'tops' (fastest 100m runner, richest person, sexiest babe) and multiple 'heaps' (local, regional, or global; money or power [although correlated]; skinny or curvy).
This allows for much more special feelingness to be attained in the population. Virtual worlds add more tops and heaps, but they also add more chances. In real life we carry consequences of all previous choices and actions forward, and often route into a condition of reducing flexibility. In the virtual, one can 'reset' as often as one likes (bound by real world restrictions since the real world must host the necessary real bodies and equipment).
One nice feature of the virtual worlds is that they could eventually draw population away from competition in the real world, making the satisfaction of us real world participants higher.
While the player count is smaller than most commercial MMORPGs, all of the players are on a single server, whereas most larger games are split up into several shards. Also, each player in atitd has lots of buildings, so their presence is felt even when they aren't online.
Thus, while the total subscriber count may be less, the few thousand players all sharing the same world, and all having a noticeable affect on it, still qualifies it as "massively" multiplayer, instead of just being a MORPG.
The differences of atitd compared to nearly every other mmorpg makes it newsworthy and interesting to follow (and the fact that it has a linux client doesn't hurt its chances of getting a mention on slashdot.) If this were generic fantasy murder simulation number 500, then it would be flying under the radar with only a few thousand subscribers.
"MMOGs are like treadmills that make you fatter."
First the good. You could download the game and play for free to see if you liked it. This is a very, very good thing. That the Star Wars Galaxies & others don't do this says a lot.
SWG doesn't have a free trial? Sure, if you discount the "14 Day Free Trial".
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/
Oog craft pyramid with open source CD.
One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
...or you could download them directly from eGenesis-
Windows client and Linux client
ATITD is half a game. It is a crafter's utopia and little else. What ATITD is missing is any sort of excitement, adventure, exploration, or intrigue. It does an amazing job getting rid of 'levels'. Most of what it does right it does dead, on, it just isn't enough for most people. I swear, when I play ATITD I feel like someone made an amazing kick ass MMORPG, then stripped away everything but the economy, and ATITD is all that is left.
ATITD has the right idea, and I think it is an excellent example of how MMORPGs can progress past the stupider the fuck AD&D mentality. Now what we need is that takes what ATITD does right, and puts it in an interesting world with a little excitement and adventure. Bonus points if this hypothetical world can utterly ignore levels like the way that ATITD does.
ATITD is not for everyone. In fact, it is not for most people. What it is, is some original thinking that should jar the some creativity into the future generation of MMORPGs. Obviously the next generation of MMORPGs hasn't gotten a clue. World of War Craft, The Matrix, and the other up coming MMORPGs clearly are still stuck with a AD&D mentality, but hopefully the generation after the next round of Everquest and UO clones come out we will see some REAL innovation like what is show in ATITD. Here is hoping.
Now that I've trolled in the subject line...
"My prediction: This game is absolutely ripe for the picking by people who are good at backstabbing and sycophantry. People who are highly skilled and socially unskilled will be reduced to workerbees, while the PHB types will wind up cliquing their way to the top and lording it over the rest. I can't wait to see this..."
I've played Telling 1 for the last year and exactly the opposite has happened. A friendlier online game does not exist--it is sometimes too friendly.
Tale 2 is definitely in beta and it shows. I recommend using a free trial account and taking a look at what Tale 1 became. It's a ghost town now (game ends Tuesday) but a truly astonishing one.
The richest of Tale 1 were the socially incompetent Slashdot type because they figured the exact algorithims for specific tasks and were far more efficient. But...truly, there is no way to "rule" the game because the tasks are so varied. I'd intended to focus on Art (breeding animals, creating fireworks, tile mosaics, etc) but somehow ended up in Leadership. Got fairly high in the ranks of that Discipline (one of seven and not more important than the others) but I was certainly not wealthy OR powerful.
One way to describe the game is Crafting on Steroids but it's not accurate. I did little crafting; there's no requirement to do any (though most will, certainly).
I'm surprised this game doesn't get more love from the Slashdot crowd. It's full of complicated puzzles (in beta we're trying to figure out the rules governing the new mining system) and it's got A SHINY LINUX CLIENT!
ATITD is a truly amazing game. And, unlike The Sims Online or There, it IS a game.
Feeling so good natured I could drool