Slashdot Mirror
SCO Says 'Linux Doesn't Exist'
4A6F656C writes "In an article on LinuxWorld.com.au, Kieren O'Shaughnessy, director of SCO Australia and New Zealand, details SCO's plans for Australia, stating that they have 'prepared a hit list' and "would approach Australian Linux users to ensure they had an IP licence." In closing, he adds 'Linux doesn't exist. Everyone knows Linux is an unlicensed version of Unix'." UnknowingFool writes "IBM's lawyers have been busy the last few days. Groklaw has reported a number of different filings. On the heels of last week's motions (1) and (2) for summary judgement, they have filed more documents. First, IBM wants large portions of SCO's testimonies striken (removed) on multiple grounds. Deep in the motion, they call out SCO to produce the 'experts' that did the code comparison analysis. If IBM wins on most of these points, SCO will have very little left in the way of legal evidence. SCO answers on IBMs 10th counterclaim. IANAL but from I understand SCO says this copyright infringment that SCO has allegedly committed on one of IBM's patents is irrelevant to the case and the court doesn't need to decide on it. So SCO is saying that they can sue IBM for infringing on their Unix copyrights and patents but IBM can't counter sue on a specific patent. IBM also filed another memo to support summary judgement. As a matter of law, SCO has to produce evidence to backup its claims. This mountain of evidence SCO has claimed all this time: If they don't produce it, the court has to rule in IBM's favor."
If it doesn't exist, then what has all this fuss been about? :)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Also, if Linux doesn't exist, will my computer still work when I get home? I've got important stuff on there, and I'd like it to not be a figment of my imagination, as I haven't backed it up lately.
---
"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing and it was everything that I thought it could be."
A philosophy professor walks in to give his class their final. Placing his chair on his desk the professor instructs the class, "Using every applicable thing you've learned in this course, prove to me that this chair DOES NOT EXIST."
So, pencils are writing and erasers are erasing, students are preparing to embark on novels proving that this chair doesn't exist, except for one student. He spends thirty seconds writing his answer, then turns his final in to the astonishment of his peers.
Time goes by, and the day comes when all the students get their final grades...and to the amazment of the class, the student who wrote for thirty seconds gets the highest grade in the class.
His answer to the question: "What chair?"
Well, to put this in context, since Kieren O'Shaughnessy says Linux doesn't exist, IBM lawyers should respond to all the lawsuits as 'What Linux?'
Free XBox, PS2
A lot of things SCO does reminds me of a child's behaviour, and this is one of them. Kids often dwell on things that please them, and act as if problems don't exist.
When I was a little boy I came home from school and asked my mom if we could skip Thursday. She was puzzled and said "no". She later found out that I had gotten in trouble at school, and the teacher had scheduled a disciplinary meeting on Thursday afternoon.
Thursday doesn't exist.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Let's be clear - IBM isn't doing this out of any altruistic "we are the world" type of spirit. They are doing it because they believe it's good for their business and they will make money. That's what the business of business is and what their shareholders expect.
"The bigger the lie, the more they believe." - Det. Bunk
How can something that does not exist infringe on SCO's properties?
So it was said to be in the hundreds of thousands...
Then it was in the thousands... then the hundreds, then the dozens...
Now all of a sudden its the whole damn thing? I would love to hear SCO explain how someone could have the complete code to an unlicensed version of Unix and have gotten away with it until now.
Crack must be real cheap in Utah these days...
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
I know SCO doesn't have much (if any!) credibility with geeks on Slashdot, but when you want to win a court case you have to maintain credibility in your claims.
Using terms like "hit list" is not a good way of gaining credibility with investors and with judges. Claiming that something doesn't exist and then trying to sue people for using it doesn't help your credibility with anyone.
The legal system isn't deaf or blind to the media; SCO's ridiculous actions will affect the outcome of subsequent court cases. As we've seen with IBM's increasing success in court, SCO just hasn't learned these lessons.
Not that I mind at all.
Does IBM's actions buy loyalty?
Yes.
I don't think all of us will now put down our lives for IBM. If they ever tried to pull a fast one, I have no doubt everyone would turn on them real quick. But for the mean time they have proven themselves to be a friend. And many of us are in positions to make purchasing decisions. And while we may not all go out and buy Big Blue mainframes, when two comperable deals are on the table IBM now has a slight advantage.
And that's not the only reason to support FOSS. IBM is doing several things that are good for its business. They sell hardware, and hardware needs software. Better/cheaper software makes for more profit on hardware.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
but what the heck does "we broke our duck" mean?
:-)
Its a cricket term. It means "previously we had 0 points now we have a point(s)."
BTW: (For you americans) Cricket is sorta like baseball, but with a higher IQ quota.
The game can go on for days, with lunch breaks. Its all very civilised.
Its is something we taught to the colonies, but the Americans couldnt be bothered to learn, so they took up rounders instead. Except they got the rules wrong and called it baseball.
I hope I didnt offend any one with that description
Lawyers' fees? Ha! IBM has more lawyers _on payroll_ than SCO has employees... or darl has braincells, for that matter.
I think they are getting 3 things.
1) They don't have to pay the billions in damage SCO wants.
2) Fear. It had previously been common computer world knowledge; "Don't mess with IBM's legal team". SCO is going in the face of the convention. I think IBM is reestablishing that.
3) Yes, they are getting good will.
As x approaches total apathy I couldn't care less.
We knew this would eventually happen. Hell, SCO knew they would end up in this type of hot water. The whole problem with this mess is that they don't care if they lose.
The connection between themselves and Microsoft is firmly established now. I guess it is still open to debate if Microsoft was the company that came up with the idea of using SCO as a massive FUD machine against Linux, or if they simply started backing SCO once they realised what potential that would have. My personal guess would be that you could probably trace the very idea back to Redmond, but that's really irrelvant here.
For all the time this has been going on, there has been a blanket of FUD over Linux. Most people here saw through it, but even on Slashdot you could find posts along the lines of "...but what if SCO is actually right and their IP is in Linux..." The business world, getting their news from sources like Forbes, had a far different perception. To them, Linux suddenly became a poison pill that no IT manager would touch. You may believe Linux's reputation will eventually recover, but SCO was able to plant seeds of doubt in so many minds in the mean time.
The real trajedy here is that this type of tactic has made SCO management and board members rich, SCO employees unemployed, Linux tarnished in the eyes of the businessman, and most likely nothing will ever be done to punish those responsible for the lies.
"The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
Hmm, the stink of fraud is certainly filling up the room now...
If Linux doesn't actually exit, doesn't that pretty much negate their complaint?
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
Does it really matter? Maybe a company that is willing to defend Linux is worth loyalty. If they weren't backing us up, where would we be? This is one battle of many that can only be fought by large companies - a group of Linux geeks could never defend Linux by themselves. Big companies have too much experience using dirty tactics, and in general if they think they can get away with it they will use them. Why would they hesitate to do it to any group of Linux people that stand up to them alone?
They wouldn't.
Putting aside the issue of whether the Linux zealot mob is appropriately described as "you linux developers" -- sure, and here's why. IBM has no software or IP that the average Slashbot wants. (Or, in most cases, has heard of.) Apple, for example, is going to get raked over the coals for not "giving back to the community" as long as they decline to offer OS X for x86 under the GPL. Same for Sun, or the RIAA, for that matter.
The noisy people wouldn't know what to do with free AIX, so good will isn't hard to attain for IBM. Anyway, I wouldn't worry about their legal fees -- this is the company that dragged out an antitrust suit to the point where the US government ran out of resources.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I don't think they've proven themselves to be a friend. They're currently allies, and hopefully will be for a long time to come, but alliances do not friendship make.
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
"Linux doesn't exist?" What can we expect from SCO next? How do these people have enough funds to continue their insane legal proceedings? Why won't SCO just wither and die?
I just don't understand how a company with an outdated, proprietary UNIX, ever-decreasing customer base, and an increasingly expensive and insane legal campaign can hang on and fight for as long as SCO has. I look forward to IBM's fatal blows in the courtroom so that maybe this thing can finally go away.
If you ask me, IBM has gone beyond simply defending itself and its own interests. It has to do that now anyway. But it has extended its legal self beyond what it needs to in order to protect/promote FOSS. It has even run linux commercials and really helped put an end to the legitimacy concerns of some management.
I say they're a comfortable ally, and moving into friend catagory.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
You mean the perceived market value before they started this pump and dump exercise? What exactly will that tell you? What the three month dive means to me is that even Wall Street realizes that there is no SCO case, there will be no further buyouts and SCO is worthless. People who bought into SCO are sorry they did, including Baystar who recommend that SCO fire their remaining technical staff and become a full time IP scam house.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I haven't seen IBM do one single thing that would adversely affect their bottom line.
Now, if IBM would fund a drive to eliminate software patents in the US, THAT would show they were a friend.
They are an "ally" only because they see Linux (and Open Source) as useful and profitable and an alternative to being second to Microsoft.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
They're both 400-lb gorillas, it's just that right now IBM doesn't have its ass pointed at you, ready to unleash a pile of monkeydung on your head.
'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
What IBM is doing is good for business, but not to sell hardware. IBM primarily sells three things: hardware, software and services. They saw their profits begin to errode in hardware, so they began to move to software. They are starting to see their profits erode in software, so they are selling services, in particular consulting service, and that is where the money's at. Based on their '03 financial statement http://www.ibm.com/annualreport/2003/noflash/fr_cf s_cse.shtml, their Global Services rose from $34.9 billion in '01 to $42.6 billion in '03 while hardware slid from $30.6 billion in '01 to $28.2 billion in '03.
Hardware is still up their, but it is slowly declining.
I think they're going to go out, not with a bang, but a whimper. Their ability to construct a case is just going to wither away and die. We'll quit hearing about them (thankfully); then, 20 years from now, we'll hear a "Whatever happened to SCO" retrospective?
This is a little unfortunate. I was counting on their legal shenannigans to destroy them in a publicly enjoyable way.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
I think these SCO clowns took notes from Swift Boat Veterans for Half-truths. I'm really getting tired of buisnessmen and politicians who make their living by spreading rumors via the Big Lie method.
It doesn't matter how correct your evidence is these days. Even our president has proven that if you present a mountain of B.S. in the right way, anyone will believe you.
What a tiresome waste of the mind.
This is the one you really need to look at, its linear and not log.
Link
Official GOD FAQ.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake -- but you could be if you got off your ass.
No. They are impressing on the world that if you assert IP you better damn well have a case!
This isn't about "big" vs "little" as SCO would try to contend. This is about "right" vs "wrong". In other words if you file a lawsuit you better have something to back it up.
Sure information wants to be free, but how much are you willing to pay for the packaging?
Exactly, the less money customers have to spend on licenses for M$, oracle products etc..... the more money they have to spend on IBM support contacts and of course IBM consulting............ Of course it's helps IBM when they sell servers that run linux, the OS costs them nothing...... Well a little because they have contracts with RH and SUSE (Novell)... but not what windows would cost them......
So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.
this is about big vs little too.
except its the unusual case where everyone is hoping that the little guy gets crushed like an insignificant bug.
is that, like any good capitalist system, it positively leverages greed by putting the public good in the self-interest of moneyed entities.
IBM's doing what they're doing out of self-interest, but the entanglement created by the GPL means that in order to act in self-interest they must indirectly act in the interests of the community as well.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Here is the thing.
SCO has already pulled their copyright claim from the case. This case is no longer about copyrights. Now IBM is asking to judge to assert that there is no copyright violation which is outside the scope of this case.
SCO is claiming publicly in the press that IBM is violating their copyright but not charging them with that offence in court.
I think legally SCO might win this since the question of copyright is not in front of this judge. They can lie to the press all they want. It's not illegal to lie to the press and this judge can't do anything to stop them.
evil is as evil does
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
SCO should also drop all the legal claims against IBM and other who use this non-existent software. They wouldn't want to looking foolish claiming that this inexistent software product contains code licenced by SCO.
As OS X is largely based on FreeBSD they do not really have to give a lot back. And the stuff they did alter they have returned to the cimmunity through Darwin and their developer pages. The GUI is proprietary and they have every right to keep it that way, as (I assume) no GPL code was used to make it. Oh, and OS X on x86 will never happen. Get over it.
--Muzz
has software ever really existed? isn't it just an idea? a bunch of electrons in a row? sure I can hold a cd ro floppy disk but that isn't software, it's media.
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
Wow God spoke to you? Awsome. According to the bible he has only spoken a handful of people in the entire history of the world. You must be super special to him.
You should have recorded him though. That would have been super awsome. Then everybody could have heard what God sounds like. Not only that but then you could have proven once and for all that he does exist. It looks like you missed a golden opportunity there.
evil is as evil does
Linux is a development branch. Only when the kernel stablies at 2.8 would they have to worry about licencing up until then the kernel is not stable enought(too many patchs) to pass licence tests from current data. Basicly everyone is part of the global development team.
Note Development versions of UNIX don't have to be licenced. So stop claiming money under fake pretence. Linux is free suport is not hiring programmers to fix faults in a development tree is not free.
Sorry Sco Linus is not happy with it he is our lead developer.
And it is unlikely for linux to complete development anytime soon.
And how dare you clam the high ground UNIX is a clone of what XEROX did. Basicly history is repeating itself. You have not paid XEROX for cloning there work why should we.
There is nothing to force users to licence we are just a clone based on a clone.
Hey Microsoft you will love this logic.
So since dos was a clone of cp/m just poorly writen you own the creaters of cp/m big money lets say 90% of all you profts. And cp/m was a clone of UNIX so you have to pay SCO too and UNIX was a clone of XEROXS work so you have to pay them too and some UNIX nicked stuff from BSD so UNIX has BSD IP contained so you have to pay bsd too. Now each developer decides you are using clones of his source code so you have to pay him too. Basicly this is how to nuke the software companys to the ground.
Same logic as SCO Microsoft about time you protect linux to protect you own tail. You are funding the wrong side and may open the biggest can of whip tail you have ever seen(You are the one of the most hated companys and I don't think SUN will miss a chance). Don't worry if linux dies we will just have to make a GPL version of OpenBSD and keep on going.
Cannot hurt opensource simple you will have to fight up hill even if you do win we can start over. The question is can you.
Agnostics are intellectual cowards. Reason tells you that there is no god.
Take evolution for example....
If you've ever taken a college biology class, you would be able to see that evolution occurs. Comparative Morphology, predictible genetic mutation, etc. etc. It's backed by years of scientific research.
Then you have the Genesis Myth. God created the earth in seven days, and the whole thing is ohh, about six thousand years old.
The agnostic, by his refusal to choose, gives each equal creedance. It's insanity, really. But it's a convienient position for armchair philosophers to take, because it placates people. Think of it as the John Kerry position.
I am an atheist. Period. To steal a phrase, I want to believe. A mountain of evidence prevents me from doing so. Douglas Adams had a rather compelling piece on it in his final book. Some of Ayn Rand's writings on the subject are also interesting.
But some of the best religion jokes are blasphemous!
Think for yourself, destroy your television.