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The U.K.'s National Health Service Licenses JDS
deputydink writes "Recently the NHS licensed from Sun 5000 seats of its JDS system for tactical deployments within the health care service, adding that it deemed JDS a viable desktop alternative for certain types of user communities. The NHS has already deployed JDS in its back-office. This could be the high profile boost for JDS subscription services that Sun needs."
As an ex Sun guy with plenty of JDS experience let me just say this is farking insane unless these tactical deployments are not mission critical deployments. For desktop use by admins or execs, that's cool but I wouldn't want anyone in the emergency room using it.
Given the NHS's spectacular track record in failed IT projects, I have grave concerns that this has as much a chance of ending up being a PR nightmare as it it does a triumph where Sun is concerned.
"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
How does one define "tactical deployments"?
Are we talking ER situations? Homeland Defense/Emergency offices? I mean, the article leaves little mention, just stating that they are to be used in "tactical deployments"?
Any docs out there who can explain?
-thewldisntenuff
My MythTV HowTo
It includes Linux as underlying OS to run on, and several components that are also used in Linux-based systems. Is that good enough?
I find it pretty interesting that Sun was able to score this deal in an area where security is such an important aspect. Or perhaps that's why they were able to do so? Either way, it seems like a solid jab for the open source community.
I work as a network administrator for a national architectural research institution. Recently, we replaced several dozen aging Windows XP workstations with Sun thin-clients running the JDS system for to run the proprietary topographic software our employees use and I am very impressed. The integrated system managment tools are bar-none the best I've ever used, and a distributed system offers users much more power than they would ever need, without the extra cost of running an NT-based domain. Sun really has built an excellent product.
You will notice that this is on the desktop, not just on the server end. Linux is ready for the desktop, it is just a matter of training people to use it. And if they have never touched a computer, Gnome is easier to use then Windoze.
I just hope they updated the integrated Mozilla browser!
The last time I used JDS, the version of Mozilla preinstalled was 1.4, which did not support NTLM proxy authentication and thus I had major issues getting the computer on the Internet.
In the end, I just installed Firefox.
Bored? Visit my exciting counter page!
"The NHS has already deployed JDS in its back-office."
/. article is wrong. More likely that they deployed JES (Java Enterprise Server)
Probably not, although I hesitate to suggest that a
To get the best deal out of MS ala Telstra Australia.
while deploying alternate desktop environs in a health-care setup:
1. Printing: Best way forward is internet printing. Very difficult to get the right drivers working the right way on each desktop, but for internet printing.
2. Drivers for medical devices: Most devices come with Windows drivers only. Hardware mfrs. and Linux distors really need to take some effort here. By the way, this is a weal area for Windows versions as well. Every new OS release or Service Pack screws up some or other device driver or dll, and some app stops working!
Currently I use Windows on those m/cs that are interfaced to these devices or printers. There's no major issue with plain Linux distros and no major advantage having JDS instead.
-
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
The last thing you want to hear in the middle of an emergency resuscitation is: "I can't pull the chart up, I've got a virus!"
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
5K desktops does not seem like that big of a number to me. Didn't they already sign a deal for 100K desktops someplace?
Don't get me wrong. I am glad there are 5K more linux desktops in the world but Sun was hinting at much bigger numbers.
evil is as evil does
Isn't that Suse running a Gnome GUI.. Or is this something new?
IMHO, no, because it contains old versions of programs, incomplete translations (Mozilla and StarOffice don't have as much translations as for example Galeon and OpenOffice), less than standard hardware-recongnitions (due to older kernel etc..) and does not even include KDE libraries (i.e. you can't even run k3b, which is IMHO the only excellent cd writing program in Linux). Personally I prefer any real distro such as Mandrakelinux, SuSE or Fedora above Sun Java Desktop.
But commercially Sun is a big name, and probably that alone makes them interesting for some people...
Microsoft selling software by subscription = bad.
Correct ?
I'd suggest that a truly secure desktop has no business on the internet at all, so the choice browser is moot (except for the corporate intranet).
That's how it goes at my place of work - the secure network has a bona fide airgap between it and the rest of the world.
T&K.
Political language
Sure, but any Peter Principled IT goober actually looking for a bloated piece of malware crap that will keep his department busy for years to come now knows exactly where to go. All publicity is good publicity, and never underestimate the cynicism inherent in large IT purchasing decisions. BOFHs need to build empires too.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Any business model anywhere that leads to Linux deployments = good.
:)
Any business model anywhere that leads to Windows deployments = bad.
So Linux = good, while Windows = bad. But: it's not true that the sales model isn't the issue. Proprietary software is bad in many ways; how, exactly, it will bite you depends on the exact licensing model used. So to discuss Windows = bad at any length, you have to discuss why Windows + (this sales model, whether that be ``sell packaged goods + free support'', subscription sales, or anything else) = bad. That's the only way to be specific.
It would be nice if there was more discussion of why Linux + (this sales model) is better for the customer than Windows + (this sales model), rather than just why Winodws + (this sales model) is bad, couched as (this sales model) = bad. So you've got a point there, although you're too far down in the thread to have a mod
There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
-- David D. Friedman
As Newham (local government in part of London) did.
Newham's anticipated savings and level of support with their eventual systems are reported to have made sharp alterations as a result of that tactic.
These will not be the first Linux desktops in the NHS and its contractors (most GPs are not directly part of the NHS but are contractors to it althoguh the latest Great Idea is to compulsorily outsource our IT to the NHS - an interesting strategy without so far a coherently stated logistical approach to implementing it) - I for one have Linux on several of the machines in the office, but our old clinical automation is Clipper/DOS and mostly won't run under DOSemu at least for me.
Linguistic Inflation and paralysis of thought The other explanation is linguistic inflation.
The NHS management can't buy things, spend money on services etc, rather they "invest".
Similarly, a sensible idea to follow-up a small trial of an office desktop by putting 5k of them to use wherever people want to use that rather than the insecure legacy system of a competitor noted for its frequent excursions from legal operation in order to see how it goes - an experiment - gets inflated into "tactical deployment".
In Soviet Russia, Kremlin watchers used to decode gnomic utterances, stripping the revolutionary cloaking in order to divine the actual information content. Religion is a bit the same.
As to the act itself, I'm here and I applaud it. I've been working for FLOSS implementation in healthcare for 5 years, including chairing the NHS session of the OSHCA London meeting which the NHS Information Authority sponsored - I would say in a sensible illustration of applying a little attention to trends other than the main line in order to remain knowledgeable about them. During that meeting the head of the NHSIA (who opened it) accepted a post in the Cabinet Office office of the e-envoy.... and a while later that Office produced the UK Policy on F/OSS from work done mainly by QinetiQ.
Oh, and a week or two after it billg had lunch with the Prime Minister and the NHS got a deal on 1E6 copies of Windows - as a tactic IMHO against embarrassment by software audits - nobody knows how many copies of anything are around in a hospital Trust, nor could find the licences.
FLOSS of course offers a strategic approach to avoiding that risk and letting people take a copy home, but governments are not yet entirely comfortable with such loose arrangements.
Well put (also on the interpretation of "tac deployments" in the article's context).
From another angle, strategy is what to do, tactics is how to do it. And an army is what to do it with, of course.
Hey, I didn't bring Dubya in Iraq into this at all. Wow.
Given that Linux is getting higher security certifications than Windows is (now that we've got companies with enough money invested to make the process worthwhile)
Is there any evidence of this? Sounds like the kind of thing I would have read on slashdot.
Hm, Sun's Java runtime == Open Source? I think not.
StarOffice == Open Source? I think not.
If we'd stuck to calling Free Software, Free Software, we wouldn't have to put up with this nonsense, but as it is we have a situation where people are in the throws of defining new government policy in the UK stating that the default purchasing policy in the UK should include "Open Source" software, despite the fact that nobody involved seems to have any clear idea what Open Source means.
That allows Sun to come in and say something like "StarOffice is Open Source becasue you get to see some of the source" and the NHS folks presumably say "Fair enough, where do we sign for a site license?"
I'm surprised Microsoft don't go totally ape about this, but then again, they probably think that JDS is open source too. It wouldn't surprise me if the Sun sales folks think that it's Open Source, in the same way that most SUSE sales folks used to think that SuSE was Open Source, despite the old YaST license.
Debian: GNU/Linux done the Linux way
The developers who put out GPL software are free to sell their software as well but most decide not to. Newsflash, most of them are NOT into OSS for the money and they put their software under the GPL fully well knowing that businesses would using there software to make money. If they have a problem with that they can go proprietary.
Secondly your going to complain about Red Hat making cash after all they've done for the community and all of the GPL OSS they've put out year after year? Do you have any idea how many developers and members or the community made a big chuck of cash from them when they went public? Gimme a fucking break. Bitch about SCO who continues to sell some OSS products despite their total lack of understanding of OSS. But not companies who actually give back and stand up for the ideals of OSS. What's next? Debian shouldn't take donations because their taking money away from the kernel developers?
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
What is even more scary, the emergency room might be using MS Windows..
There's a pretty poor level of IT knowledge throughout the NHS hierarchy as far as I can see. Well, maybe not so much a poor level, as a very poor breadth. Many little things annoy me, such as how NHS sites (such as QMAS for those who know what I'm talking about) are explicitly geared towards IE, even when they work fine with other browsers. Our Clinical Systems supplier is proudly announcing an enhanced partnership with Microsoft, and the PCTs (Primary Care Trust - regional organizational bodies for local practices) will only fund Windows systems. Some of their tech support staff are pretty competent on Linux, but they wouldn't be allowed to support it. From where I work, it seems as though Microsoft has got its hooks into the NHS very deep.
I work in the NHS at the moment, and I'd love to have a linux system at our practice. Unfortunately, our clinical systems supplier is Windows only and it's too late (or too early) to switch, even if there were a linux alternative.
As a pretty strong programmer, I'd be more than happy to contribute to an OSS clinical system, or even do a chunk of the design work for it. But I don't know anyone else who would help.
And really do not get me started on the switch from READ codes to CAP's SNOMED.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
[Yes, I know. It wouldn't be /. without rampant assumptions being made.]
That is truly fucked up.
What EAL4 evaluations has Linux got? Also, it is important that you can do something with the system, i.e. can it serve web pages, offer DNS, allow VPN, file & print serving etc? Ther windows evaluation can, to EAL4 - the Linux EAL2 & 3 evals are very restricted!
Sun's Linux distribution is not Linux anymore?
Once home users realise that they have to pay every month just to keep windows working - there will be a lot more drive to get linux into homes.
Anyway, what works in the enterprise is a lot different from what works in the home.
Go nigger^H^H^H^H^H^H, er figure.
I was involved with Read 3.1 and at one point with the IPU oversight of the Mayo Clinic integration work - Read 3 and the CAPS SNOMED codesets. The intention was that every Read 2 code would be in Read 3, and that all the SNOMED concepts and all the Read concepts would be combined into the finished thing, whatever it is called this week.
That it takes the SNOMED name is less a reflection of its contents than of the embarrassment that the NHS Clinical Coding Centre (where the Read Codes were elaborated) caused to IPU, NHS and gov.uk when they were looked at hard.