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SETI Researcher Quashes Signal Rumors
brainstyle writes "According to Dan Wertheimer of SETI the whole ET signal excitement is more hype than science. I told myself it was in all likelihood nothing special, but I'm still disappointed. Darn."
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With that much denial in one news report, you know it has to be a cover-up
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
Instead of the story..
Dan, did you try to map the signal to a 3 dimensional shape? A cube maybe??
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I guess I'll have to take the signs and flares off my roof now. :(
I for one say good riddance to our alien radio-emitting overlords.
Obviously not intelligent.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
We should be fine as long as the signal isn't a countdown.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
NPR has a cool piece regarding how radio may not be the best approach to looking for ET life.
It offers a free ipod.
A mention of a possible signal and someone comes out to vehemently deny it? Tinfoil time!
I, for one, retract my welcome of our new alien overlords.
Radio waves and light [also a radio wave] travel at the same speed through space.
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
I try to keep the tinfoil hat in the closet as much as possible, but one can't resist...
Yesterday, we get this quote from Dan Wertheimer:
"It's the most interesting signal from SETI@home. We're not jumping up and down, but we are continuing to observe it."
but today we get:
"It's all hype and noise. We have nothing that is unusual. It's all out of proportion."
and we also get Paul Horowitz:
"It's not much of anything at all. We're not investigating it further."
So yesterday the chief scientist for the project says it's the most interesting signal (which in and of itself just means it was a little different than the rest) and that they will continue to investigate it. But now today it's just a bunch of media hype and they aren't investigating it any further (I'm not sure who Horowitz actually is, but it seems a safe assumption, based on his comment, that he's associated with the project".
Yes, it COULD just be a case of "Oh wow!... Oh no, wait, nothing". Or it could be an outright coverup. I suspect it's something in between, but chains of comments like these really do lead a person down a particular path.
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
so if this is really nothing and they at SETI aren't interested, where'd all the damn hype come from in the first place? thats what i dont get....who started it, and what happened to them?
i understand its so very probably not an ET signal...but what if it was?
Moo.
My sources indicate that the message was along the lines of "take me to your leader", but the folks over at the SETI project want to wait until after the US election in November before replying. BTW, here's a sample of the results that users have submitted.
--When it's my time, I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather -- not screaming like all the passengers in his car
Like most of the geeks on this site, I'm afraid we are really all alone...
It is worth noting that TFA says that the signal in question in in the hydrogen absorbtion band. I remember reading old sci-fi stories that speculated that these frequencies would be a good candidate for interstellar communications, since interstellar hydrogen absorbs EM radiation in this frequency, sweeping it clear of noise. Obviously SETI feels the same way, or else they wouln't consider this signal to be "of interest".
If they have found an interstellar signal in this frequency, and it isn't artificial, will we have to revise our understanding of astrophysics? My understanding is that this can't be regular white noise. Maybe it's from our solar system (a naturally occuring local signal rather than interstellar). Or maybe it's something new.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
warning beacon. I've been wondering when it would drift close enough to be detected.
STAY AWAY! Mostly Harmless (but they're getting worse).
- Dan
Now, in light of these facts, which are not denied in the BBC article, the "We're not investigating it further" type responses certainly sound like an attempt to prevent the media from getting their panties in a twist. "Actually it was a reflection from a weather balloon..."
I hope SETI does investigate. That's the whole point of the project, isn't it?
They know its not a real signal because it said so.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
"The signal is moving rapidly in frequency and you would expect that to happen if you are looking at a transmitter on a planet that's rotating very rapidly and where the civilisation is not correcting the transmission for the motion of the planet," Korpela says.
:
The bionic Lemming says
A navigational Beacon? Rotating on a repair facility? Made to cover as much of an area as possible in times of distress?
Or do the aliens have Software written by their version of Microsoft - and they accidentally have a port opend that's now spewing out their version of Viagra spam?
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Lots of denial, without any explanations. We want to know why its all hype and noise, why it's not unusual, and why it's not a signal. In short, what did they realize it was?
I for one welcome our new non-existant alien overlords.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
I think you would probably find that the people who want to find extraterrestrial life really, guinuinely want to find it. They would neither risk being considered cranks by repeatedly saying "found one -- oops, psyche" nor would they willingly participate in a cover up if they did.
A lot of scientists already think of SETI as being a little flaky. Giving people reason to believe that more would be silly.
[ then again, since I can't prove a negative, I can't completely rule out the assertion either. =]
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
No, it's exactly the opposite. There is very low absorption on this frequency, which means the signal will propagate farther than in other frequencies.
will we have to revise our understanding of astrophysics? My understanding is that this can't be regular white noise.
From what I have read, it's a "marginally regular" white noise. That is, it has a shape that's somewhat unusual to find in noise, but not really impossible, just low probability.
They may get here easier, but there's a catch there: It'd have to be pointed at us. That means one of several things:
1. They know we're here and are making a concerted effort to attempt contact us. This means they can't be more than a few light years away, and have already picked up OUR radio waves, meaning odds are we can hear their radio too.
2. They had to know that there was a habitable world here long enough ago to send a signal here on the random chance that there's somebody here to notice. (i.e. they live far enough away that when they sent the laser message, they couldn't know wether or not anybody was here to pick it up)
3. They missed a reciever and hit us by blind luck.
This would also limit us to detecting civilizations advanced enough to have already detected us, and have lasers with narrow enough beams that it's still coherent and good enough aim to still hit us accross great distances.
Non-coherent broadcasts like radio, on the other hand, travels in all directions, and would be expected to be used by civilizations less advanced than us, so we could detect nearly any industrial or better society (assuming we could resolve the signal and recognize it as a signal). Looking for this, we can detect any civilzation, wether they're looking for us or not.
Lasers are easier to detect if they get to us, but radio is much more likely to get to us.
Have we been so primed by TV and movies to expect fantastical aliens that we don't think that we may end up finding the technological equivalent to ourselves fifty or a hundred years ago?
Or at the very least told we have to move along and vacate this planet? After all, we're receiving the signal *outside* of their planet...
I'm just waiting for the Galactic police to show up.
No, it said:
Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 62.359 years
"If [the aliens] are so smart, they'll adjust their signal for their planet's motion."
Only one thing I always say about this: It's a very naive to assume aliens are smart. We're not all that bright by the standards we seem to expect of aliens, and we used to be a lot dumber. We're just as likely to detect an early industrial civlization by their sitcom broadcasts as we are to detect some hyperadvanced godlike race beaming lasers at us accross the galaxy.
Can someone explain to me why the shift in frequency is not being considered as the signal itself? It doesn't take rocket science to create and broadcast an FM signal, and we've even learned how to cope with the doppler effect as we drive along listening to the radio in our cars.
Perhaps 1420 is the start-of-message signal?
Realistically speaking, if I took a reading of a signal that always started the same way and behaved the same way no matter when I started, I would suspect an artifact of the equipment or software.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Now if you look on this site the 1400-1700 Mhz range is used by radio astronomy and weather satellites. So with that 3 questions:
Now I'm probably wrong on all of this. Which is why I love
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
Unfortunately, reporters, editors and scientists often work at cross purposes. Reporters want to sell stories, editors want to sell magazines, and scientists want the public to hear about their research. When the science won't sell the story, there is often some creative writing that goes on.
That said, I was both misquoted and quoted out of context in the New Scientist article. The crux of the issue is that there really isn't much chance that the "signal" is actually extraterrestrial or even real. The point I was trying to make to the "New Scientist" reporter was that the combination of a stable frequency between observation and the rapidly changing frequency during an observation meant that it was unlikely that it was real, and that it was likely to be a spurious signal due to noise or interference. I reiterated that several times.
I don't know how that got misinterpreted to the point where the article claims I said the signal was unlikely to be interference or noise.
We don't have any plans for reobservation or monitoring, and I'd give 1000:1 odds that there's nothing there.
Support SETI@home
The message has been found and translated. A text of the translation follows.
Hello,
I am Mr Buck Francisco, General Manager(Treasury) of Land
Bank, Helopkino, in the Alpha Centauri System.This is an urgent and
very confidential business proposition.
On earth date June 6, 2000,an alien Oil consultant/contractor with
the Alpha Centauri Institute of Mining and Metallurgy,
Mr. Darth Vader made a numbered time(Fixed) Deposit for
twelve earth months, valued at US$26,500,000.00,
(Twenty-six Million, five hundred thousand of your Earth US Dollars).
Upon maturity,I sent a routine notification to his forwarding
address but got no reply. After a month, we sent a reminder and
finally we discovered from his contract employers, the Centauri
Petroleum Corporation that Mr.Darth Vader died from a spaceship
accident.On further investigation,I found out that
he died without making a WILL,and all attempts to trace his next
of kin was fruitless.
I therefore made further investigation and discovered that
Mr.Darth Vader did not declare any kin or relations in all his
official documents,including his Bank Deposit paperwork in my
Bank. This sum of US$26,500,000.00 has carefully been fixed in my
bank for safekeeping.
No one will ever come forward to claim it.According to Helopkino
Law,at the expiration of 5 (five) earth years, the money will revert to the
ownership of the Government if nobody applies to claim the fund.
Consequently, my proposal is that I will like you as a Alien to
stand in as the owner of the money which was fixed deposited in my
bank. I am writing you because I as a public servant,i cannot operate
an alien account.
I want to present you as the owner of the funds so you can be able to
claim them with the help of my attorney. This is simple.I will like
you to provide immediately your full names and address so that the
Attorney will prepare the necessary documents which will put you in
place as the beneficiary of the funds.
The money will be moved out for us to share in the ratio of 80% for
me and 20% for you. The paperwork for this transaction will be done
by the Attorney.If you are interested, please reply immediately via
my SETI@home address and Upon your response,I shall then provide you
with more details and relevant documents that will help you understand
the transaction.Please observe utmost confidentiality, and be rest
assured that this transaction would be most profitable for both of
us because I shall require your assistance to invest my share in real
estate within your country.
Due to the nature of confidentiality in this Transaction our
communication can only be via SETI.
Awaiting your urgent reply via my email Above.
Thanks and my regards.
BUCK FRANCISCO.
Well, I'd be the last person to expect aliens to come calling from space, but I'm not against investigation. If you have several interesting signals from the same area of the sky, then it only makes sense to point a radio telescope at it for at least a few days and both monitor the hydrogen emmission continuously for a while, and also check the rest of the spectrum.
I wouldn't be surprised if the signal only showed up periodially if it were artificial. After all, they would probably be scanning the sky with a high-gain antenna. They'd expect a recipient to figure out the period and then be ready to capture whatever higher-speed data is being sent on some other frequency, or something like that.
Most likely this is just a natural phenomena. However, that makes it just as useful to study - it means we can learn something just the same...
A recent (September 1) article in New Scientist magazine, entitled " Mysterious signals from 1000 light years away," implies that the Berkeley SETI@home project has uncovered a very convincing candidate signal that might be the first strong evidence for extraterrestrial intelligence.
Alas, this story is misleading. According to Dan Werthimer, who heads up the Berkeley SERENDIP SETI project, this is a case of a reporter failing to understand the workings of their search. He says that misquotes and statements taken out of context give the impression that his team is exceptionally impressed with one of the many candidate signals, SHGb02+14a, uncovered using the popular SETI@home software. They are not.
This signal has been found twice by folks using the downloadable screen saver. That fact resulted in the Berkeley team putting it on their list of 'best candidates'. Keep in mind that SETI@home produces 15 million signal reports each day. How can one possibly sort through this enormous flood of data to sift out signals that might be truly extraterrestrial, rather than merely noise artifacts or man-made interference?
The scheme used is simple in principle (although the technical details are complex): SETI@home data come from a receiver on the Arecibo radio telescope that is incessantly panning the sky, riding "piggyback" on other astronomical observations. Every few seconds, it sweeps another patch of celestial real estate, and records data covering many millions of frequency channels. Some of these data are then distributed for processing by the screen saver. By chance, the telescope will sweep the same sky patch every six months or so. If a signal is persistent - that is to say, it shows up more than once when the telescope is pointed at the same place, and at the same frequency (after correction for shifts due to the motion of the Earth) - then it becomes a candidate. Of course, being persistent doesn't mean that the source is always on, only that it is found multiple times.
In February of this year, Werthimer and his colleagues took a list of two hundred of the best SETI@home candidate signals to Arecibo and deliberately targeted that mammoth antenna in the directions to which the scope was pointed when they were found. Once subjected to this closer inspection, all but one of these signals failed to show. That disqualifies them from being claimed as true detections of a persistent signal. The one that was found again, SHGb02+14a (the subject of the New Scientist article), will no doubt be observed yet again, but according to Paul Horowitz, who heads up the Harvard SETI efforts, the statistics of noise make it fairly likely that at least one of the candidates observed in February would reappear, even if all these signals were simply due to receiver fluctuations.
The article remarks on the strong drift of this signal, which it describes as puzzling. Of course, many terrestrial sources of interference, and in particular telecommunication satellites, show strong drifts due to changing Doppler effects as they wheel across the sky. (Incidentally, the technically inclined will want to note drift due to a planet rotating like Earth would be 0.15 Hz/sec, not the 1.5 Hz/sec mentioned in the magazine.) As for the distance of 1000 light-years claimed in the article's title, there is clearly no evidence supporting this number, other than the lack of known nearby stars in the beam.
The bottom line is that an experiment like SETI@home always has a candidate list, a table of those signals that look most promising. Indeed, you can find the current versions of this list on their web site. However, there is a great deal of difference between a candidate, and a convincing signal. If any of the major SETI experiments being run by the SETI Institute, by the Berkeley group, the folks at Harvard, or the Australians or Italians, discovers a signal that they think is of extraterrestrial origin, they will immediately take steps to confirm this, both with their own scientists and with observers at other
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