Mozilla's Sunbird Reviewed

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Posted by CowboyNeal on Saturday September 4, 2004 @02:05AM from the right-on-schedule dept.

comforteagle writes "Mozilla Sunbird is the latest stand-alone application from the Mozilla foundation that follows in the footsteps of now revered browser Firefox and email client Thunderbird. OSDir reviews their first public release, version 0.2. Screenshots included."

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FP by sm8000 · 2004-09-04 02:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

"as of the moment Sunbird does not integrate with Thunderbird or Firefox." Sometimes this isn't always a bad thing, you know?
Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. by Penguinoflight · 2004-09-04 02:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

It seems that if Mozilla were at this stage in its development, say 5 years ago, they would probably be converging into one application. Perhaps Mozilla has decided to learn from the mistakes of Windows/IE integration. With the recent wired article where a Microsoft security head admitting his use of Firefox, I would say this move to less integration is definatly a smart one.

--
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
1. Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. by soyuz_2 · 2004-09-04 02:13 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  where a Microsoft security head admitting his use of Firefox
  
  Anyone making software would be nuts not to try the competitors product. I mean, surely Audi engineers try BMW's to see what they have to compete against, right?
2. Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. by mantera · 2004-09-04 02:24 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  "With the recent wired article where a Microsoft security head admitting his use of Firefox"... I read his interview and it did not indicate that he was using it in any more capacity than testing it. He definitely did not say he was using it for browsing or relying on it. In fact, he said it too had security issues. So, although I'm typing this on firefox right now, let's not get excessively enthausiastic. Microsoft had always had a practice of seeing what's out there, competitors and already implemented solutions, that him having firefox on his computer means very little. He probably has every other browser out there too.
3. Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. by callipygian-showsyst · 2004-09-04 04:29 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Microsoft had always had a practice of seeing what's out there,
  Exactly right!
  In fact, that was one serious problem I noticed with Apple when I worked there. Nobody believed they had any competition, and nobody ran competitors products. Folks there really beleived, for example, that if you tried to plug a digital camera into a Windows XP machine you'd have to spend hours downloading drivers and dealing with BSOD.
  It's SMART to know what the competition is doing. I'd be disappointed in Microsoft if they didn't keep abreast of the competitors.
  
  --
  Best Buy can have you arrested
4. Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. by julesh · 2004-09-04 06:07 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Anyone making software would be nuts not to try the competitors product. I mean, surely Audi engineers try BMW's to see what they have to compete against, right?
  
  I would expect the engineers to do this. I would expect the designers to do this. I would expect the marketing department to do this.
  
  I would not expect the guy who runs the safety testing facility to do it.
two things... by mantera · 2004-09-04 02:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

1) Open it up for extensions, the way firebird is. 2) until it can sync with mobile devices (palm, pocketpc.. etc), i won't be implementing it.
1. Re:two things... by Myen · 2004-09-04 05:57 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I have no idea about 2), but I've looked at 1) slightly (wanted to write an extension for it).
  
  It will probably happen when all the extension code is ported from the branch to the trunk - currently, Sunbird needs to be built off the trunk of the mozilla.org CVS tree, but most of the extension manager stuff is in a CVS branch (from which Firefox 1.0 and Thunderbird something-or-other is supposed to build from).
  
  I assume the Firefox people will port the EM stuff back into the trunk once Firefox 1.0 is done (since Firefox will eventually go there as well to pick up the Mozilla 1.8 stuff).
  
  That, and ths Sunbird version number ("0.2a") is bad - the "a" breaks the version comparison scheme ([0-9]+\.[0-9]+\.[0-9]+\.[0-9]+\+? with chunks optional).
  
  Assuming the EM gets fixed, it will have to be open for extensions - Sunbird, like Ffx / Tbird / Seamonkey / etc., is XUL based, and the underlying mechanism (overlays) is basically built into XUL.
Innovation by Frankie70 · 2004-09-04 02:17 · Score: 3, Insightful

Screenshots

Looks identical to Outlook's Calendar, even menu option names etc.

OSS seems to be totally following the MS way, including very little innovation.
Re:Wait.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-04 02:34 · Score: 1, Insightful

Hmm... One thing it offers me over iCal is that I can actually run it on my PC. Thats pretty big to me...

Thanks for your time though.
Re:Wait.... by kryptkpr · 2004-09-04 02:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

First paragraph of TFA:

"Sunbird is the new cross-platform calendar application from the Mozilla foundation"

There ain't no iCal on Win32 nor Linux.

And as far as mozilla ripping off netscape, I think you have it backwards.. netscape is built on top of mozilla.

--
DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
Re:Wait.... by FuzzzyLogik · 2004-09-04 02:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

good grief man... look at the version number on that.. 0.2 there's plenty of time for them to innovate, let them get the basics done first then watch as the new useful features roll out... sit back and chill.. if you have such a problem why not go help the development... it's really not THAT hard to write some javascript and such for all that.. i guess if you don't program it might be kind of hard but it's fairly easy to pickup if you tried... the thing i'm trying to say though is to provide your input, if it's not what you want, then why not go suggest features or what have you? bitching isn't going to help, you need to provide constructive criticism and possible advancements...

--
Kyle
http://www.unlogikal.net/
Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 by ScottGant · 2004-09-04 02:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

The original submitter of the news also should of said what the fricken thing was...instead of just providing a link. Just say what it is in the piece so people that are interested in what it is can go there, those that don't need/care don't have to follow the link...and contribute to the slashdotting effect...

Journalism 101

--

"Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
Re:Problems with remote calendars by dn15 · 2004-09-04 02:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

Is Sunbird *really* ready for the public yet? :)
No, which is why it is still at version 0.2. It is not being promoted to regular end-users, and few people outside of Slashdot and MozillaZine readers probably know it exists. It is good to have the application available for testing and bug-reporting purposes, but it is certainly not supposed to be used by the general public at this point.
Serving is the key by Ars-Fartsica · 2004-09-04 02:59 · Score: 4, Insightful

Its nice to see more standards compliant calendar browsers out there, but whats key is that server side solutions (Yahoo Calendar) adopt open standards so we can share calendar data, which to me is the entire point. To me this type of application is mostly about advertising when I am and am not available...so sharing with other calendaring clients is crucial.
Palm Pilot. by maeka · 2004-09-04 03:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

Wake me up when it can sync with my Palm.
What type of journalism is this... by danheskett · 2004-09-04 03:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

...I know this might be undue but..

Not everyone knows what Sunbird is. I know from the article teaser above that it's from Mozilla, and it's like Firefox. So it's a browser, like firefox? Or an e-mal client like Thunderbird?

In the future, you may get better response by telling us exactly what it is being reviewed.
Come on! by Orion+Blastar · 2004-09-04 04:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

#1 It is 0.2, very early in development, don't expect much until it gets closer to 1.0, pluuueesseee!

#2 Of course it looks like Outlook Calendar, until MS Sues and then it will look like something else.

#3 No Synch, yet, see #1.

#4 It is a basic calendar app, no frills, see #1.

#5 Some day, the Mozilla development teams, will find a way to Integrate Thunderbird, Firefox, and Sunbird into something more productive. Just not today.

--
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
In your summary... by callipygian-showsyst · 2004-09-04 04:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

you could have said what it was! I clicked on the link saying to myself "Please! Let it be a calendar app!" and, fortunately, it was.

--
Best Buy can have you arrested
Re:some integration would be nice by Dizzle · 2004-09-04 04:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

Seems like it would be simple enough for mozilla to have a common folder for usage with all the programs. I think they have install directories and preferences (data too) stored in separate folders, but there's 3 programs for them to use. That means 6 folders. If they kept the preferences folders unified, that should amount to a huge benefit. Of course, IANAP, so I could be wrong. Or maybe I'm stating the obvious...

--
-Dizzle
"I most likely AM so interested in myself."
Re:Actually... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-04 05:25 · Score: 1, Insightful

The point is that Mozilla's XUL, MPR, etc basically the same as a "System API" -- it implements low-level functionality normally provided by the operating environment. (forget slashbotisms like 'IE in the kernel')

In other words, a Mozilla bug likely ALREADY affects Firefox, Thunderbird, Sunbird, etc, just like how Windows bug affects IE, OE, MS Office, etc. Except in Mozilla's case you need to patch each seperately.

Mozilla is "more than a browser, it's a development framework", remember? That means it has all the risks associated with shared code. In short, if you really want isolated applications, Mozilla is not for you.
Yeah, the article was stupid, BUT.... by slappyjack · 2004-09-04 05:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

I have to say I really dig Sunbird, except maybe for the name.

No, the app isnt ready for prime time just yet, but I've played with it and I really dig it for what it is.

Like most of the mozilla family, Sunbird just sits there waiting to be told what to do. It's FAR from robust at this point, but for a single user that has trouble remembering family birthdays, its not a bad little application. It'll come up to speed eventually, and the fact that with a little toying around I managed to store the calendar inside my hosted website and can have the up-to-date calendar on whatever machine I use is fantastic.

For you guys bitching that it wont automatically synch with whatever youre using: for christ's sake, spend 40 minutes learning perl and you can munge that file into just about fomat you need.

I look forward to the day when Sunbird grows up and is no longer just another open source beta.

--
s'wut i sed.
Re:It does. by jrexilius · 2004-09-04 06:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

sorta, it relies on webdav and iCal and is an open standard but I was thinking of a method that might be easier for existing web sites to add. adding an RSS feed or a SOAP service is often easier for existing app servers/developers/packages, then adding webdav and iCal. not that they are really that different in difficulty but I could see a lot of, perhaps, mental barriers to the webdav/ical method.