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German Teen Charged with Creating Sasser
nomoreself writes "Sven Jaschan, only 18 years old, has been indicted by prosecutors in Verden, Germany for allegedly releasing the well known Sasser worm. The PC World article has the details, including the fact that Microsoft's $250,000 reward offer was responsible for informants' coming forth with Jaschan's name, and that Jaschan has actually already confessed to writing several versions of Netsky, as well as the worm in question. Surprisingly enough, the 143 victims that have filed charges are only claiming $158,000 worth of damages." You might remember when he was first arrested back in May.
Boohoo. You do the crime, you serve the time.
You'd think people smart enough to do something like this would be smart enough to shut their mouths. :)
Lucky, 143 plantiffs seeking only 158,000 in damages. Over here that kid would have been sued for 158,000,000!
Now if only we could figure out a bounty system to kill off those spyware and adware guys....
Or so /.ers will claim. His program caused people to lose money. I don't care if it was linus torvalds himself, anyone who writes a program with the intent to do damage to systems, even though they are unpatched, should still be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and be made to pay. It IS a crime.
(Not meant as flaimbait or a troll, just staving off posts in his defence)
Those who study history are doomed to watch others repeat it.
I thought there were more Windows machines than that.
Worms are a two-sided problem. In order for them to happen, it takes a software writer (far too often that software writer being named "Microsoft"...) to create software that has a ready-to-exploit flaw in it, and then it just takes one evil-minded programmer to kick a worm through that hole and make a mess that makes all of us wearing white hats have to do some serious cleanup and deal with downtimes.
While I'm glad the kid is going to get taken to justice, I'm still a little troubled by the fact that all Microsoft doing for their part of it is releasing a "you shoulda run Windows Update" patch and kicking in a quarter-million US dollar reward... both of which they're doing out of the kindness of Bill Gates' heart because there's no law requiring either of them.
I know small time programmers need liability protection from the abuse of their software... but shouldn't a large company like Microsoft be liable for the cleanup costs associated with their own security bugs?
That sound you hear is millions of script kiddies saying "Dude, Sven Jaschan is, like, uber 1337!!! I bet I can beat him, though."
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
Sven Jachsen's parents have recently purchased a new home and car after a mysterious wire transfer from Redmond, WA. Deustche Bank declined an interview about this.
Fixed link to May story.
1. Write some evil worms
2. Get a friend to "inform" Microsoft
3. Pay $158,000 in damages.
4. Receive $250,000 from Microsoft.
5. Big party!?
Yes, I know - he'll probably have some other problems right now...
I'm glad damages here in Germany are a bit more realistic than in the US.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
a little math
5 years * 365 days in a year * 24 hours a day = 43800 hours in prison
$158,000 / 43800 hours = $3.60 an hour
or
5 years * 365 days in a year * work 8 hours a day = 14600 hours of work
$158,000 / 14600 hours = $10 an hour (if he works 8 hours a day)
The damages are so low because you have to prove in court that you actually lost the amount of money which you claim as damages. Over here, we don't have punitive damages.
It's good that they got this guy.
Now if someone will just offer a reward for catching whoever it was that lanched the years-long-now denial-of-service attack on Java applets.
The attackers posted something about "killing cross-platform Java by growing the polluted Java market." Apparently, their goal was to make it impossible to create trustworthy Java applets, by making it impossible for a website developer to predict whether the JVM client was compatible or not.
This DOS attack has been very successful in making people afraid to use Java applets. It has been one of the most costly DOS attacks in the history of the Internet. I really hope they can identify and charge the attackers.
In most of the (western) world, the damages awarded by courts are pretty down-to-earth.
It's the USA with its runaway legal system which is the sad exception to the rule.
As an american living in europe.. it's nice to see a court system work the way it's supposed to: As a last resort when you can't sort things out between yourselves, and where the damages you receive can only be expected to recover your losses, not make you a profit.
They're too busy hiring all the other brilliant software engineers who managed to find time in their days to *both* learn how to become brilliant software engineers, *and* develop even a minimal ethical framework for how to apply their skills.
Seems like an overwhelming task, but that's why they deserve a good job goddammit.
Jeesh.
The only acceptable defense of scientific results is to say that they were the product of the Scientific Method.
When I was 13-16 I had the ability to create viruses with the capabilities as any major virus. And I am sure many slashdotters also had/have these ability.
I actually thought about releasing some viruses, well trojans, would not of done anything on the massive scale as some of this virus, I was not that stupid. Hell, I could actually be in jail now and life screwed up over something like that.
Exploiting windows machines has never be challenging has not been for the past decade. The fact that some kid could wreck their life over a couple lines of VB code is kind of sad. I think it was genius on microsoft's part to get people to want hunt and track down those evil virus kiddies.
It would be easier to create a destructive virus then it would be to rob a couple bags of chips from a store for most kids that create viruses. One might get you a slap on the rist (I am not sure how much you get in trouple for stealing couple dollars worth of food), and the other could get landing in jail and millions of dollars worth of damages.
I honestly do not think for most of these kids the punshiments should be that extreme especially since most of those kids probably only copied and pasted some code, or changed a few lines of code. The punishment should fit the crime, if you can cause millions of dollars worth of damages in under and hours worth of work, then something is not right. I do not see any other way of doing something that bad on a massive scale other then blowing up a building or running around with a gun.
I just hope these kids still get a chance to have a life, and they are only held partially responsible. If someone built a bridge that could be destroyed by walking over and pulling out a nail, and the hole thing would come down. There would be two people to blame. The designer and the person that actually did it. Lets just hope its handled carefully in this case.
Stealing to feed your family?
Call me very kantian, but I have never understood why one person thinks that in any circumstance that because one person has more than another, it should be considered alright to take it away from them and give it to someone.
Would I steal to feed my family?
If I had no other choice, most likely. But I'd expect to face the same consequences as the guy that stole money just to support a crack habit. I'd expect no one looking into the circumstances surrounding what I did other than I did this or didn't do it. Wrong is wrong. There are no grey areas. Its a boolean function. its right, its wrong. Nothing else.
"So is stealing bread to feed your starving family."
Nice use of the Fat Tony defense
Bart: "Are you guys crooks?"
Fat Tony: "Put it this way. It is wrong to steal a loaf of bread for a starving family?"
Bart: "No."
Fat Tony: "What if you steal a truckload of break."
Bart: "No."
Fat Tony: "What if your family doesn't like bread? What if they like cigarettes?"
Bart: "I guess not."
"Call me very Kantian..."
Actually you're not very Kantian, and your misguided ethics might even stem from a gross misunderstanding of those ethics.
Remember that Kantian ethics does not support consequentialism in any way. The morality of an action is directly linked to that action's motivations, not to its consequences or indeed even its legality. Korsgaard has a lot to say about how many of Kant's conclusions as written (such as the famous one where he declares it immoral to lie to save a friend's life) can be "blocked by his own procedures."
If you think that you should be punished for stealing to feed your family the same way someone should be punished for stealing to feed a crack habit, you have a serious problem discerning between what is "legal" and what is "right." No matter the capitalistic filth that has been shoved down your throat by "the man," socialism was not founded on principles of lazy people leeching off of the community. It's about taking from those with an overabundance and giving to those who lack. It's about charity and love and most of all respect for humanity.
The law should serve humanity, not humanity the law.
Sven was a young boy
He had a heart of stone
Lived 9 to 5 and worked his
Fingers to the bone
Just barely out of school
Came from the edge of town
Scripted like a switchblade
So no one could take him down
He had no money, ooh
No good at home
He walked the streets a soldier
And he hacked the world alone
And now it's...
Chorus:
Eighteen and life you got it
Eighteen and life you know
Your crime is time and it's
Eighteen and life to go
Eighteen and life you got it
Eighteen and life you know
Your crime is time and it's
Eighteen and life to go
Cheetos in his fat face
His ass burned with vaseline
It kept his motor runnin'
But he never kept it clean
They say he loved VB Script
Sven 's the wild on
He married trouble
Had cyber with a bum
Click, click! hack 'em up
the party never ends
You can't think of dying
When the butthole's your best friend
And now it's...
Chorus
"Accidents will happen"
They all heard Sven say
He fired his sasser to the wind
That child blew a child (hes gay!)
(solo)
Chorus
YEAH, I THINK GEEK THEMED SONG PARODIES ARE LAME TOO! MOD ME DOWN
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Score -1, Arrogant, ignorant and stupid troll.
Wrong is wrong. There are no grey areas. Its a boolean function. its right, its wrong. Nothing else.
Sure, it's easy for you to say that - sitting in the comforts of your home with an Internet connection and time to kill on a discussion site.
But I bet that the several people who watch their children die of hunger or poverty would bet to differ.
I can understand malevolent people exist, but a large chunk of them are driven to it by the *society* we live in. Rather, the lousy excuse for a society that we live in.
One of my friend works for an international aid agency. Maybe you should see some of the pictures of people worn by war, strife, poverty and diseases.
There is NO right and NO wrong. It is ALL a perspective. When you are on the street with nothing to call your own, stealing is NOT wrong or right - it becomes a necessity. You do not have the luxury of morals when it is a question of survival for you and your loved ones.
If water were made a commodity, and if people died of thirst because they could not buy it, would you consider STEALING water to live a crime? If air were made a commodity, and people died because they could not buy air, would you consider stealing air a crime? It's a survival instinct, you cannot cull millions of years of evolution because of some cock-and-bull morals that you conjured up for yourself.
Narrow-minded and prejudiced thoughts like this make me want to puke. Sheesh.
Don't know why but I am always curious to see a picture of people in the news. There don't seem to be too many of this guy. Probably because he was not 18 and the regulations of the media or whatever. Anyway, I managed to find this one. enjoy...
http://www.sabah.com.tr/2004/08/05/dun112.html
TODO: come up with a clever sig
Give me a fucking break. The 18 year old writes a mediocre virus and you're all up in arms... how about this fucking company (a.k.a. Gator) that has been compromising millions of computers (trespassing, breaking and entering, whatever) for profit? Don't fool yourself, one's a kid being stupid, the other's a profitable company and they're both doing the same thing.
While I can't point you to a specific post, I have made comments every bit as harsh, if not worse, about the scum sucking bottom feeders at the spyware capital of the world otherwise known as Gator. They should be squashed like the parasites they are.
If I had children and one of them came to me and said "daddy, I want to be a prostitute", I wouldn't be happy but I'd learn to live with it and they would still have my love. But if they came to me and said "Daddy, I want to work for Gator", I'd throw them out of the house.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Seems there may be a discrepacy between the damages you can plausibly put before a court and those you can tell the media.
If we just replace the act of "stealing" with "murdering", then it would put things in clearer perspective.
:)
It also totally changes the meaning. You can't just interchange the two to make a point. Obviously most people would answer your question with a no, but that really has no ramifications for the justification of stealing. BTW, this goes both ways, too: Is it okay to violate the speed limit to feed your starving family?
So maybe stealing to feed your family is not totally okay. I don't think anybody said it was, because the original point was that moral evaluation is not boolean. So it's not totally okay (whatever that means; perhabs nothing really is) but it's more okay than stealing for no good reason at all, and a lot more okay than killing to feed your family, which in turn would be more okay than killing for no good reason at all. Arguably.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
Having absolute law is the only kind of law possible in a system run by imperfect beings.
:-)
C'mon, that's ridiculous. Following your path of argumentation, you'd need perfect laws first.
They do not exist. Can imperfect beings invent these perfect laws at all? I doubt so. Humans can invent/discover mathematical equations, but you're not a living equation.
IANAL and I don't want to be one (because being a lawyer/judge IS messy and I'd like to stick with physics, which is hardly deterministic nowadays, too!). If YAAL, you should have spotted such fuzzy words as "inadequate", "clear" etc. in law texts many, many times already. I'm sure the appropiate laws contain them. Not only in germany (where I live and where the whole spectacle takes place), but also in the US. Can you give me an exact definition for them?
Or, if you can't, post at least a mathematically sound definition of what constitutes "computer sabotage" here. Good luck
Huh? Did your balls get lost?
I saw this story on the front page and thought, "I wonder how many comments before someone makes a reference to prison rape." It was 14, and modded +4 Funny. Forgive the generalization, but what is the deal with Americans and prison rape? Every single time prison is mentioned (and most of the time criminals are mentioned), someone pipes up about men raping other men. I can understand the occasional reference, but this is obsessive. It's creepy.