Slashdot Mirror
Employees Rights in an Emergency?
Waiting-for-Ivan asks: "In Florida in the past month and a half, we have survived 2 hurricanes. During the last one I was within the areas with a hurricane warning (i.e. hurricane conditions are expected within 24 hours). My company (who will remain unnamed) wanted everyone to come in. Those who did not come in had their pay docked (salary or hourly didn't matter) and threatened with loss of their pay for Labor Day. We are not an emergency facility whose services are required during an emergency. Is this legal? Can they make us come in during a hurricane warning (or any other environmental emergency) and if we refuse can they punish us for not doing so? Do we as employees have any rights (and can they dock salaried employees so easily)? What laws are in affect explaining these circumstances?
on the strength of the storm/etc
there should be explicit laws about that in your area.
It is implied on this page that they don't HAVE to give you the day off. It reads:
Judging by that, it's more of a suggestion than a requirement... But I also found this on this page:
So, it sounds like people are suing for being forced to work during the hurricane, which might be a slightly different situation than yours.
Sounds to me like your employer is just a major league ahole, and you might not be able to do anything about it.
-- "A chicken is an egg's way of making another egg."
Workers' rights? You must have forgotten that you live in the United States of Avarice. Now grab your pick axe, and get back to mining that salt.
How ya like dat?
Do we as employees have any rights...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA
oh stop, you're killing me.
It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
Florida is a "right to work" state, meaning that they can terminate you for pretty much anything OTHER than race/age/sex/religion (i.e. things explicitly covered by law.) As far as docking pay, that's also legal, as long as your weekly average hourly wage (pay/hours) doesn't fall below federal minimum wage.
It's a weasely thing to do but there's probably not anything you can do about it.
To ensure perfect aim, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target
My company has a policy that we're "always open." Last year, we experienced a blizzard so severe that the city issued tickets to any non-emergency vehicles on the road. The power at the building was also knocked out. Yet when we got back to work, we were expected to make up the time or use Paid Time Off. The excuse made by management was, "Sometimes you have to use you PTO benefit for the company's benefit." (!)
I'd been working there all of a month, or I probably would have contacted a lawyer. If it happens again, I'll definitely be exploring a class-action suit. In a state of emergency, when it's not safe to go to work, it's completely unreasonable to expect employees to come in. If it's not illegal, it ought to be. If I were you, I'd contact a lawyer.
Right...
Seriously. The job market is a free market like any other. If your employer is being unreasonable and threating you, take your skills elsewhere.
I live in Florida in an area that was sure to be hit by Charley, I left Thursday and got a hotel room for me and my family ( I live 1 block from the Gulf in a low lying area). My work was open that Thursday until 3PM when the "Official" notice came to leave. The hotel I found was full that night and had I waited to leave until I was Allowed to by my employer I would've had a tough time finding a room and may have had to sit in an evacuation center for a few days. Anyhow, I did get a "Written Notice" from my employer for not coming in that day which I signed with a note saying that my family comes before my job.
The good news is that I hated that job and I quit today anyhow. (they're sleazy snakes) all in all, F any employer that asks you to stand in harms way so they can make a buck. If more people took this approach employers would have to be more considerate. I'd guess your employer is a publicly traded company, where Money is the only diety.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
I think you mean "At Will". Right to work means that in most cases they can't terminate you without cause.
The Tao that can be spoken is not the one eternal Tao
Seriously! This is far beyond the realm of an "Ask Slashdot"! I can see wanting to get a feeling for the experiences of others, but how many times did you ask "is it legal"? Laws may vary from region to region, but I cannot imagine in an area that is about to become a disater area that your employer would be allowed to do this.
That being said, TALK TO A LAWYER ABOUT THIS. You should be able to get at least a reasonably cheap 15-30 minute consult to get the answer you need. Also, talk to the appropriate parts of your state's government, ie THESE GUYS.
Hope that helps.
-jason
If I could only live my life with my threshold at 4...
During the hurricane a state official was on the television reporting that many similar events had occurred. She mentioned to call the state attorney. The relevant information is available at http://myfloridalegal.com/contact or you can just call 1-866-966-7226.
Whether it's legal or not, the management must be fools not to consider what this does to morale!
I guess it's harder to quantify human resources, enthusiasm, and loyalty than missed hours...
I like the way you put the word "Employees" and "Rights" next to each other in the same sentence. It really creates an intense feeling of cognitive dissonance.
Reminds me of Latin poetry where they would rearrange words to suit the subject of the poem, for example placing the words for "dark cave" around the words for "embracing lovers".
What you've done here is like placing the word for "fire" next to the word for "water", or "hitler" next to "jesus". Very powerful!
Good job!
The Sun-Sentinel has an article! Here's a snippet:
So apparently there's nothing in law, but you might be able to put a little fear in your employers pants by calling the hurricane hotline. Good luck!US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
It would be one thing if your company had said anyone who didn't show up would be fired but that doesn't sound like what happened. From your description it sounds like the employeer just wasn't going to pay you for time you weren't at work.
... why should they? Are they really taking anything away from you if you didn't work. If you didn't work then the money you would have gotten isn't yours. They didn't take anything.
The question is
One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
Why should your employeer pay you for time you didn't work? They didn't dock you anything. If you didn't work they don't owe you the money for said work.
It would be a totally different matter if they had said you would loose your job if you didn't come in.
One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
My concern here is that you aren't patriotic enough if you are asking such a question. Stop whinning. It is your patriotic duty to go to work rain or shine. It is important that you work unpaid overtime and even volunteer nights and week ends. Don't complain about your salary either, otherwise we'll outsource your job you unpatriotic-GDP-lowering-French-lover-commie.
So you think the terms of your job should be "protected" by the government, huh? Obviously you've never heard of the Employment at Will doctrine. The answer to your question is yes, you have rights. You have the right to quit. Don't take that right lightly....you might not miss it until it's gone.
If the government is allowed to set down terms and conditions for when your company is allowed to fire you, what's to stop them from setting down terms and conditions for when you're allowed to quit? Sorry, you can't quit this week, a Hurricane is coming we need every able bodied employee available to stack sandbags. Quitting now would cause "excessive loss of profit" to the company and the "Protect our Jobs Act of 2004" says that's illegal. Try again next week, after the flood subsides.
No thanks. Employment at will means at their will, and yours. If you don't like the job requirements, quit. Get off your ass and find a better job. The market is picking up anyway.
... for showing his true colors. Things are improving(praise W). Find a human boss, and leave.
The company you work for has a serious problem, and as many others have said before, go see a lawyer about this. The company I work for found a way to keep it's employees safe while maintaining productivity by providing VPN capibilities to us, and having non essentials telecommute when the weather gets bad. (It also makes life easier when I get that 2a support call)
Additionally it may not be a bad idea to search for a new job where your safety is a concern for the company...
--Stephen
Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
Employers are pretty good at working together to lower wages and benefits. If we as employees could have half as much solidarity and less short term kiss-ass we'd all be much futher along. Workers rights are achieved only by fighting for them, and that's the only inevitablity here.
Get a new job with a company that cares about the safety and well-being of their employees. Seriously, fuck them.
I'm not sure what the exact laws are, and they may vary from state to state, but at least where I live there are laws against traveling on public roads during a state of emergency unless it's required for public safety/service. If you're caught, you'll get ticketed or fined or whatever.
Somehow, for Y2K, my employer managed to convince the county that all of us in IT were "critical" should there be any emergency, and we got stickers to put on our company IDs stating that in the case of an emergency, the police were to allow us to travel. What a load of BS. Nothing happened, fortunately.
My route to work now takes me through one of the most snow-prone sections of the state twice a day. I've already told my manager that once winter comes, if things look ugly, I'll be working from home or taking a PTO day. No job is worth putting my life at risk trying to drive through white-out conditions. Lots of employers like to say "take care of yourself and your family first" - let's see if they actually mean it.
Docking people for not coming in during a hurricane? That's just underhanded & sleazy. Get out of that job, management clearly doesn't consider the employees people, but rather slaves.
Glad I live in California, Florida seems pretty unkind to the worker.
Might I suggest asking your labor department what your rights are?
This sig no verb.
Find out your employment stats by talking with your HR department. They can tell you if you are classified excepmpt under the "Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)".
If you are exempt, and your pay has been docked, you have a clear legal case. If you are non-exempt, then your employer is just a jerk.
When you take a sick day it's unlikely everyone else does too. Work will go on. Money is still being made, so it's not too much of a burden to cover your pay for the day.
When everyone in the facility ups and walks out at once, processes grind to a halt, money is not made. Worse, some processes may not be as simple to restart as merely flipping the on switch. The day's a dead loss from the company's perspective. Expecting on top of that, that they absorb the damage of paying you (and everybody else) for work you weren't there to do, is adding insult to injury.
Yeah but imagine the liability if they made you be there while the roof was being ripped of their building... Those are probably terms they would understand...
This sig intentionally left justified.
Have you tried calling your union? Things like this is what they are there for!
print "Yet another p{erl,ython} hacker\n",
Regardless of the laws in Florida, your rights or non-rights, or what's fair or not, always do what's pragmatic.
Pragmatism says that when a hurricane is headed your way, get the hell out of the area! Duh!
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
For questions about labour law, if you want a proper answer ask a lawyer.
/. We know about things that go bleep in the night.
This is
After the hoods comes the ball-gags, then the rear-entry plugs,
You mean they pay people to work in those conditions? To think, I've been paying for that treatment!
...(or, "Can you say 'passive-aggressive'?")
1. PUBLICITY...
Find out which other workplaces (near yours) are/aren't doing the same as your employer.
Even better, get friendly with people at other jobs who have the same problem.
Then all of you call the local TV news shows, radio talk-shows, and newspapers, and ask them to do a story publicizing the situation and the names of the offending employers.
And after the storm is over, DO post the names of those employers anonymously on some very public forums, and then anonymously email links (to those threads) to the head of personnel and the CEO.
If it's a publicly-traded company, find out which socially-conscious funds are investors -- especially union pension funds, California state employee pension funds, etc.
Anonymously tell the funds about the story, and cc your message to your CEO, AND to your corporation's department of investor relations.
2. Ask your doctor to give you some sedatives because of the extra "anxiety" caused by the coming storm. Call in sick because you're impaired by the tranquilizers. They can't deny your sick-pay.
3. Have a slip-and-fall injury in their parking lot, due to the bad weather. Get sick-time off. Better yet, get disability pay and workmen's-comp.
Better yet, sue their asses if you're hurt badly enough (btw, this is another idea for point #1: tell the company's liability insurer about what the company is doing).
I can't believe I'm reading this shit. Have you ever met a french person? Have you ever left the country? DO YOU HAVE A FUCKING CLUE AT ALL ABOUT WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT?????? It's obvious you do not, considering the countries you cited as being more industrious than France. I'VE just got back from Europe, I was in FRANCE, as well as Germany, Italy, England, and Spain. The French were great people. EVERYONE knew I was an american NOBODY had a problem with it. Almost Everyone spoke english too. Do you speak two languages? Everywhere of interest to travelers had multilingual signs, France was one of the best places I went through. The myth of the rude french person come from ignorant annoying fucks, like you, who step into other peoples' countries like they own the place, show no respect at all, and expect to be worshiped on be the locals. It's THOSE people get the rudeness, and they fucking deserve it. And secondly, regarding french politics, THEY HAVE A FUCKING RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH US, JUST AS WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH THEM!!!! They are a sovrein state, NOT a parrot of American foriegn policy. I love my country and it's people like you that shit all over its reputaion. So FUCK YOU!
So last year was the first time in my life I had seen more than a couple of inches of snow I was terrified to drive in more than 1 meter of snow. So my boss swung by to pick me up and we were both an hour or so late to work because he gave me an impromptu snow driving lesson.
My point is that it is a shame workers rights issues come up at times like this (blizzards, hurricanes, &tc.) when it's so easy to be decent to your employees and make it a win - win situation.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
they can require you to come in; that's up to them (and its up to you to quit if you don't like it). Only if you actually get hurt while at work or traveling to/from work would they face civil or criminal penalties.
I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing. -- Thomas Jefferson
Why aren't you going to name the company? Is that because there's another side to this story that you don't think we should have? It's not like they wouldn't know, since the article was submitted with your name on it.
I just went through Frances too (see journal) and my employer has decided to pay all the salaried people and not pay all the hourly for the days the company was closed (three - Thursday, Friday, and Tuesday); the worst is that the hourly people are the worst paid in the company, so this affects them even more than it would affect anyone else. Needless to say, there's a lot of complaining, and when the economy starts to turn and get a little healthier, I suspect the company will lose a lot of valuable staff.
The positive side is that there is something you can do about this that doesn't involve lawyers - contact FEMA. FEMA has an emergency assistance program that covers lost wages through hurricane related office closures. My employer is "helpfully" encouraging its hourly staff to do this. I don't think it's ethical, especially as my employer isn't in the line of work where it'll lose business because of this (it'll force everyone to have stress attacks for the next month to catch up, but if you think anything's going to be delayed...) but there is that option.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Ok, my employer expects us to take vacation time for a weather emergency. No, it's not fair, but they make up for it in other ways. So saying they'd "dock your pay," while a far too agressive way to put it, is probably standard practice. However, the second issue, refusing to pay you for the holiday if you don't work on Friday because of an emergency, is punitive. IANAL.
If only that's what Labor Unions really did. That's their origin, and that's what they were/are meant to do, and that's what's badly needed, today.
But IMHO, there's a class of people that can smell money, and insinuate themselves into money flows. Some time ago, they smelled Union Dues, and the res is, sadly, history. Also unfortunately, some time back they began to smell Health Care, too.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
In preparing for Y2K my boss and company arranged many contingency plans not only within business centers, but to the point where I had a complete development environmet set up at home. When 9/11 occured and access to NYC was restricted we were all told to stay home until further notice unless critical customer facing support required us to return to the office. My entire department covered their jobs from home.
Several hurricanes and nor'easters and snowstorms have limited access to our offices. Even last weeks Republican National Convention was considered a severe enough inconvenience that policy was "work from home if you can" and I did. I put in at least 2 12 hour days because without the commute I had no reason to get up from the computer.
We have reached a point where everything possible we can do from home instead of the office has already been arranged thanks to broadband, VPN, instant messaging, VOIP, and VNC. We are at the point where it is a simple question "Will I get more accomplished if I work from home today?"
You live in Florida, Hurricane country, but the same would apply to wildfires, earthquakes, tornados, flooding, and any of the newsworthy weather that comes from the Atlantic Ocean.
If local, regional, state or federal authorities have ever restricted travel or access in your area for any weather or "act of god" reason, or really anywhere for Homeland Security reasons, your company should have a stated policy about those possible events. The company should also have business contingency plans for such events.
Remember, your family and their safety and comfort is your real first priority job. Where you go to work is just what you do to pay for it. Let your fight or flight reflex guide you.
As I have been composing this I have received an e-mail notice for "National Emergency Preparedness Month". Check the Homeland Security web page for details.
some time back they began to smell Health Care, too.
That probably doesn't smell very good, however. I know hospitals always seem to smell funky to me....
Karnal
Check your companies policies to see if it states that they can dock your pay or if you must stay at work in cases of emergency until the state mandates evacuation. If the policies say they can do it then there is nothing that you can really do since you agreed to follow there policies. If it's not then you could contact a laywer since they were endangering employees by making them stay at work during a hurricane.
This is a recent trend I've been seeing.
Literally, companies sell their soul to make a buck. A software company will release products just to make the stock rise where people inside the company know damn well it wasn't ready for release. Every quarter is a stress packed month. It seems like a never ending cycle where the employees take it.
As for a private company stress levels are manageable and goals aren't outrageous. Plus, there's pay raises every year not the pseudo-stock give away where it takes years to vest.
It becomes very apparent working for a publicly traded company that it's all about the bottom dollar.
My employer (very large defense-contractor type) has a policy that if you don't work the time, you take leave or don't get paid.
I might not like it, but I can understand it. We have "full cost accounting," you might say. Almost everyone works on contracts for other companies or the government. These other companies aren't going to pay for hours (or days) of work they don't receive and my company does not have money to make cover it. Where is the money for unworked time supposed to come from? We do have administrative leave. It is time you can make up in the next pay period. It's not great, but it is better than nothing.
If fact, if we have a non-contract related meeting--one where we can't charge the time to a contract--it is almost always done at lunch, with lunch provided free. They don't have $5000-$1000 to pay a division of people for an hour or two meeting.
If fact, we don't have sick leave, just leave. We can use it however we want. If this sounds strange, consider that it costs the company the same whether you are sick or not. We do have disability leave. However, it's not just for sickness--you need a doctor's statement of disability. I received 2 weeks of disability leave when I had UP3 surgery (fairly easy surgery but a long recovery time.)
I can see where it would be different in a company where you provide a product or service and the money comes from that. The money to pay the people was already budgeted and the small amount of missed work won't a difference or can be made up in various ways. But at a company like I work for, it just wouldn't work.
In a free country, people should be free to choose whether to join a labor union.
Oh, uh, "way to tell us."
feh. stuff.
Just remember:
:-D
Is this good for the company?
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
Where is the money for unworked time supposed to come from?
It's built into your charge-out rate like any other overhead cost and profit margin. I would expect a "very large defense-contractor type" company to charge out at a hefty rate. Making you work during your lunch hour is just is just greed. They'd rather sacrifice your personal time than eat into their profit margin.
problem: people priding themselves on making it to work regardless of the weather; a few years ago during the "blizzard of the century" (it really was, for here; >32" of snowfall w/in a 12-hour period) I knew a lot of guys who went into work knowing that the place was closed (usually because the boss had better sense...) just so that the next week (when your area's average annual snowfall is seldom >32", the authorities aren't likely to be prepared to dig the place out overnite...) they'd be able to say to the boss "Hey, I was here, where were YOU ?!?!"
On the other hand, whenever we get 160-mph winds they're usually confined to the trailer parks...
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Say you are injured or killed coming to work or while you are there. Do they realize that they would be liable for medical bills and lost wages?
I'm sorry but that's just stupid.
The situation for bad weather is worse on overhead. There just isn't enough overhead to pay everyone for a day or two. Again, this happens so infrequently that I don't mind. If I did, it would get another job and not just complain.
They can force you, but you can sue their ass if you happen to die. Fair enough, right?
In quebec, because the workers movement have been strong at some point, there is a lot of laws to protect workers, and the company is supposed to protect their worker from all kind of problems. Also, there is a sorta 50% unionization rate in here, which mean that you'll probably be part of an union if you work here, and can use the money from your union to sue the company.
Otherwise, a solution can be to join the local branch of the IWW , which is mainly an open membership union, which can help you for free, if you demonstrate some interest in the labour movement, by showing up to meetings and stuff. This is also a good way of learning a lot about your state labour rights.
It works differently in different place. At the hospital I work for, PTO is accrued in lieu of vacation or sick time at the rate of a little less than 8 hours per 2-week payperiod. It can be used as replacement for time the employee has chosen to take off, such as for a 2-hour dentist appointment or a day or week of vacation. It can also be used as sick time, or donated to other employees in need (such as in the case of catastrophic illness). However, it also counts as our holiday pay. For example, if we choose to take Christmas off, we can either choose to take PTO, or not. It's rather flexible, but sometimes I think it's a ripoff.
There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
These employers sound like real assbags. I'd look elsewhere for work. The screwing will only get worse as the bad weather continues later this week!
Goddamned kids! Get off my lawn!
Honestly, I have read the OP a few times and this really doesn't look like a genuine complaint.
... OP - you stupid fuck, get in your car, drive your family to safer grounds for a few days, come back to see if your house is still standing, then drive to see if your company is still intact and if there is a building to host you if you still have a job. If you are so concerned about whether or not you are going to get paid your $200 for the day (assuming $50k a year tech position, which is generous for the area) then fill the day in as a vacation day / paid time off / whatever. You may not get your Labor Day pay either? Good thing you have your vacation / paid time off banked for emergencies - which this was if I ever saw one.
... and you haven't identified with any of the stuff I wrote above - you need to grow up and see the bigger picture. Particularly if you are otherwise happy with your job.
Can't be - a fourth of all computer guys are on the streets out of a job and this guy is publicly bitching about whether or not his employer should pay him a full day's wages if he doesn't come in because of the hurricane
Don't be petty, don't be a little man. If I was a betting man I would bet that there are all kinds of things wrong that you just can't put your finger on, ie. a lot of little things are bad, but not so bad that you can point at any one of them and get sympathy or understanding on the matter - but maybe this one was 'big enough' to go public with so people would understand how bad things really are. It isn't - but it is a pretty good indication of the overall workplace morale there.
OP - If you have lost sight of the bigger picture, I will draw it out for you : you are not happy where you are. The company isn't going to bend to your will, nor are they going to change to make you happy. You need to dust off your resume and from home you need to be surfing Monster.com You need to be networking with your friends and associates to have them help find you a new job. You may need to move to another part of the country to get this new job, so if your house got totalled and you had good insurance - that may be a good thing. The Wendy's up the street is looking to fill a manager's position paying $25,000 to $45,000 a year - and maybe it is time for you to think outside of the box.
If, as a professional, you genuinely have deep emotional issues with the company requiring you to burn a PTO / vacation day for not coming in
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
The alternative plan -- having both sides make certain commitments beyond "I can walk out of the deal any time I like" -- can work as well.
Here in the UK, it's normal for both parties to have to give one month's notice before terminating a contract of employment (or, often, 1 week per completed year for longer-term employees). That means employees always have a reasonable chance to find a new job if they're made redundant, and it also protects employers when employees decide to move on, giving them a "margin of error" to tidy up any loose ends.
There are various exemptions to this; you can be fired without notice for gross misconduct, for example. Other than that, the restrictions are pretty much all on the employer: you have to pay redundancy if you let someone go due to "downsizing", for example. Before you object, that means we get far fewer cases of using that word as an excuse to get rid of someone who was doing a perfectly good job but who the manager happened not to like.
On balance, these rules make the whole situation much more predictable for both parties, bringing some useful stability to the employment market. Of course, employers are always free to bring in contractors and not have these obligations; as I pointed out in another post, the going rate for that is usually around 2.5x the employee's salary as a minimum, since the contractor will have to look out for themselves in all the exceptional cases.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
It sounds like you work for Wells Fargo. To be fair, they did call me up and told me NOT to come in during a particularly cold blizzard. However, some companies think that they will lose global business if they aren't physically at work. However, the truth was (as Wells Fargo found out) is that just because NY is open does not mean that we need all 100 data operators to process deposits when Twin Cities is in a blizzard that is shutting down everyone else. They had to pay for 100 employees to process what a small handfull of employees could have done in no time. The only deposits that came in was what peole got ot the banks before the blizzard hit. I am almost willing to bet that the CEO who ordered the work during Hurricane preparation, was in another state or otherwise safe from ever having the hurricane reach him and his precious little body.
It can strike both ways, in that it's not fair to the employees to be off without pay, and not fair to an employer to pay an entire staff that isn't present. While I can understand the anger at larger companies for disregarding employees' safety, the fact is that some smaller companies could be hit extremely hard by being unstaffed but still paying wages over a prolonged (say a week) period.
Requiring your employees to show up and threatening them with firing is a different matter, however. You work the days to get the pay, but you shouldn't be required to work in the event that it's endangering your safety.
I would say that this should fall under the same categories as "unsafe working conditions" and other forms of dangerous disregard for employee safety.
Who would you call if your employer had live wires open on a wall, dangerous chemicals out in the open, possible fumes dangers? I would say that requiring the employees to go to work in hurricane situations is the same as putting them in an unsafe environment at work. I don't know about the USA, but here in Canada there are definately laws/organizations to protect workers against this, so check them out.
Furthermore, in the event that somebody is injured, I'd say that the company would be in extreme danger of having their asses sued off. This is regardless of whether you're at work, or on the way to. Requiring that employees come to work during possibly life-endangering disasters is a good way to be sued. In this case, I'd say that a court would very likely go with the plaintiff, as it's very hard to explain off this type of endangerment to anyone.
Hmm.
Always interesting: so many people accept as normal that although they are being paid salary, they are being treated as contractors (no work, no pay).
Even more interesting, is when the same people defend their employer's interest, over their own.
Gratifying, is the number of people who spot this for the paradox it is.
(R)ule in Hell or (S)erve in Heaven [R]?
Read that statement again. It doesn't imply in any way that the law prevents people choosing to join a union. It says that it is against the law for a company to get into the position where the only way you can work there is to join the union.
Its a law that prevents you being compelled to join a union. That's a very different thing.
I am in Tampa, and I felt the effects myself. As long as your place of business is not in a mandatory evacuation zone, they can operate as normal. I luck out since my office is on the water (manadatory evacuation zone A) and my home is not in an evacuation zone.
Hitler and Jesus mix quiet well, the poor Schmuck actually once proclaimed: "First of all, I am a catholic". What does produce an highly energetic field of mutual repellance is Himmler and Jesus. RFSS Heinrich Himmler, (RFSS = Reichsfuehrer-SS, Reichsleader SS for the dumbed down Amerikan masses) reinstuted old Germanic beliefs and rituals taken straight from the Edda ("bible" of the nordic faith) first as a new religion for the SS. Later this new old faith was intended to be restored among the German people. If you ask me, I would rather drink and feast in Odin's court who happens to be the god of my ancestors than grovel at the foot of a jewish god.
This is the risk they have to take as a businesses. Look at the bright side of it, if they're wiped out, they will vacate the niche in the eco(nomic) system they previously occupied and someone else will move in there if it is worthwhile. It sometimes even happens that employees organize and start their own business sealing the fate of the former employer kicking him to death while their former employer is down.
If you can't find other employment in your field, then you need to think about switching fields.
And by the time I get done with the training, there'll be a glut of labor in the field I happened to have chosen. Now how will I re-re-train while paying back the student loans?
True, legal research is not legal advice, but the point of raising legal issues on Ask Slashdot is to gather information on statutes and case law that other Slashdot users' attorneys have explained to them. Knowing the lay of the law can help a half-hour consultation with an attorney go more smoothly.
Thats right man! FREEDOM! Let it RING! DAMN! I'm so glad I have the FREEDOM to NOT have health care. NOT to join a union that works on my behalf. The FREEDOM to NOT be protected against arbitrary dismissal. The FREEDOM to NOT be employed. NOT have adaquate pay to support my familly. GOD! The FREEDOM to NOT be protected feels pretty damn good to me! I sure LOVE THIS FREEDOM!
I don't know if you have any grounds with just a warning, unless an evacuation has been ordered. Even then you might not have anything, I don't know details of Florida law.
This is, however, the perfect opportunity to tell a story about MY employer and emergency situations.
Here in Maryland, about two years ago, we had one heck of a storm. There were two feet of snow on the ground, with more expected. All schools were closed for 2 or 3 days, and the governor declared a state of emergency after a couple of National Guard Humvees got stuck. With that announcement came a notice that nobody was allowed to drive on state roads (for about a day), and anyone found driving would be ticketed.
And our office was open.
Fortunately, after most everyone who had taken the day off complained, HR decided to write off that day and not dock pay/sick leave/vacation time. For a time, however, everyone faced the prospect of
(a) breaking the law
or
(b) losing a day's pay/leave
Fun times.
employee vs contractor is not a "choice" anyone can arbitrarily make, it is a designation/classification based on your relationship with your employer.
- do you provide your own tools?
- do you set your own work hours?
- does your employer supervise your work, or just audit your work product?
- can you hire subcontractors to do your work?
If an employer doesn't want this type of relationship, regardless of if you want to (or they want to) call you a "contractor" you are NOT a contractor, but an employee, regardless of the compensation they pay you.
This is a very common misunderstanding (by both employers and prospective contractors).
Also "exempt" vs "non-exempt" is another commonly misunderstood designation which is a topic for another post....
eh, so.cal. is a shithole.
Why is it assumed that employers must pay employees for days they're not working and not on vacation?
I take it upon myself to put enough cash in the bank or space on the credit card, that if there were a personal emergency and I had to take leave, I could do so without my employer "forcing" me to show up to work by withholding my pay for that day.
I mean, really, if your bills are that tight, then it's not your employer forcing you to show, it's your own economic hardship which is forcing you to show.
Now... culturally, it's not the accepted opinion, but withholding pay for unworked days is not the same as forcing somebody to work.
Didn't you sign any contract before going to work there? You need to check it.
What I got from reading the labor regulations was that if you're exempt and show up for work on the days your business is open, you're due the full week's salary. But if you decide to blow off work one day (even if it's for a hurricane), they can dock you for that day. Being exempt also means that you don't have to be paid overtime. Finally, your employer's classification of your job as exempt or non-exempt takes a back seat to the Labor Dept.'s assessment of what you do.
In my office, there are a number of people who are lawyers by training, so this wasn't taken lying down. After a week or two of digesting the various letters of complaint to HR and the publication of the company's name in the newspaper's employee Q&A column, the company's stance was reversed. It turned out that one manager a couple of links up the chain didn't know the labor rules relating to exempt employees.
The Bush administration just made some significant changes relating to overtime and so forth, so you would be well-advised to read the new regs before declaring war. For that matter, too, you should consult an attorney who deals with employment law. (I can recommend one for Northern Virginia.)
The irony in my situation is that on the first day of the hurricane (which came along as a bad windstorm around mid-afternoon), I would not have gone into work had the office been open, because I wanted to be home to deal with things like damage to the house, etc. On the second day, when there was no damage to speak of, I would have gladly gone into work.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
Unless you are a sub-contractor, or your job is considered exempt under the law, you are being cheated.
There are three types of employment: Hourly, Salary: Non-exempt and Salary:Exempt. Sub-contracting is a seperate deal (and, if you're a sub-contractor working for free... well, sure, sometimes you eat an hour or three in the interest of business. But, if you have to do it a lot, then find business elsewhere).
If you are either hourly or salary:Non-exempt and your employer makes you do work for no pay, then they are disobeying the law.
If you're exempt, well, that's a whole different matter... and I hope that they are paying you a LOT of money! Just remember that every hour that you work over 40 eats into that... and after 80 hours, you're effectively making half your weekly salary (Been there... and let me tell you, in the long run it sucks, no matter how large a yearly salary you're getting. For example: If you're getting paid $80K/year, but you are working 80 hour weeks, every week... effectively you're getting paid $40K/year because you're working twice as much).
But, assuming that you're NOT exempt: Those "working lunches" are just their way of getting more work out of you... they provide the food (whoop-de-doo!)... you grind out more hours for them for free.
Rule of thumb: If it is important enough to meet over, it's important enough that you SHOULD be paid for it. After all, they are paying for you expertise, skills, etc. If they aren't willing to pay you, then it isn't important.
Oh, and the answer to "They don't have $5000-$10000 to pay a division of people for an hour or two meeting." is this: Bullshit. It's called "cost of doing business", my friend. And, if you really ARE working for a DoD contractor, then your employer is making a lot of money, especially now that there's a war on.
You can bet that the money that they are billing the DoD for you and others can more than cover your pay and a few non-billed company meetings now and again... with profit to spare for the higher-ups' salaries and bonus checks.
Quick reality check: Do a survey of the company parking lot, check to see what the executives and upper-management types are driving... it's not scientific, but you'll get a fair idea how well-off the company is. Even better, if the company is publicly traded, you can look up the executives' pay, bonuses, etc.
Here's the real way to look at it: Look at how much they are billing for your time... then calculate how much time you are billing per week. Then, subtract your pay. What is left over is the profit that you are generating for them (hopefully there's money left over!). It will probably be a lot... in fact, you might be amazed. Keep in mind, however, that the money you generate has to pay not only for you, but also goes towards paying those that don't generate billable hours.
But, a company that mandates working lunches for no pay for hourly or non-exempt salaried employees is simply greedy, and usually has other bad habits as well. Maybe it isn't corporate policy, and you just have a bad manager that wants to make his/her department look good. Regardless, it sounds as though you've been sold a bill of goods.
Regards,
dj