Slashdot Mirror
Bush vs. Kerry on Science
chrisspurgeon writes "The science journal Nature put 15 questions to Senator Kerry and President Bush. Read the candidates' responses on topics such as stem cell research, greenhouse emissions, and manned spaceflight to Mars."
1st Corollary : Any slashdotter who cannot spell Religion is unlikely to have informed, intelligen opinions on the subject.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Each political party has agendas. Each party will use science to support their agendas. However, when there is no real science to support their agenda, or when real science contradicts the agendas, bad science will be created or the importance of science will be lessened.
Both political parties are guilty of the above. Merely because the right believes in invisible beings who control our destiny, doesn't make it worse than the left, who believes that creating a permanent welfare culture will end poverty.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Says who? Religion and science are not mutually exclusive, although most slashdotters' simplistic attitudes fail to reflect this. That's like saying that someone who enjoys music couldn't possibly be any good at nuclear physics.
I'm studying biology and chemistry in high school; I also happen to be a Christian. Science and religion simply cover different aspects of the world. As elegant as science is, and as helpful as it has been to the world around us, it has no room for things like morality.
That's simply ridiculous to say. I'm not W lover, but c'mon. The Catholic church is doing some spectacular astronomy research; and last I checked they read the Bible for guidance in decisions. Religion and science don't have to be at odds.
'The poets are strangely silent on the subject of cheese...' - Gilbert Keith Chesterton
While I will ignore the lack of proof in your comment to back it up (Even if it is in TFA) I must point out that looking to the bible for help does not necessarily indicate a person is not pro-science.
Being agnostic myself, I obviously don't do this...however, it is my opinion that religion as a whole is designed to instill hope, etc in a person. So what's wrong with reading a book while looking for a little help/inspiration/whatever?
Bush's supporters have been shown to vote for him soely on moral ground. The poorest county in america voted more then 80% for Bush. Why you ask? Because Bush has the Christian Right, a sizeable population. Bush can screw the enviroment, tax people into the ground, reinstate the draft, declare war on canada and mexico and still have the christian right's vote.
If people will wake up and realize that voting for Bush without understanding the issues is killing our country, then perhapse they will change... but until then bush can look forward to having all the bible thumpers under his belt, and abusing his power more and more. Ah well, personally, I think you should have to have a slashdot account to vote this year.
In nature, there are neither rewards or punishments, there are only consequences.
Religion and science are not mutually exclusive
Religion and science? Perhaps not. Religion and the Bible in particular? Definitely.
The Bible is not self-consistent. The Bible makes claims that contradict observable phenomenon. The Christian faith requires people to make assumptions against available evidence. The Bible is inherently anti-science.
As elegant as science is, and as helpful as it has been to the world around us, it has no room for things like morality.
You are missing the point. Nobody is saying that science can replace religion. The previous poster's point was that the Christian faith in particular requires an attitude that is directly in opposition to the scientific process.
Any president who reads the bible for help making presidential decisions cannot be pro-science
+5 Insightful??? Are you saying science is a substitute for religion, or those who practice religion should be dismissed as scientists? President Bush's actions in expanding the funding of NSF, NASA and many other agencies suggest that he is pro-science. Would you have said the same thing about Jimmy Carter who was also devoutly Christian? How about Albert Einstein who was a practicing Jew, or Donald Knuth who is a devout Lutheran.
an ill wind that blows no good
He's also pro-life AND pro-war, go figure.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein
...and prepare for another 4 years of Bush if one decides to vote third party.
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
I really don't see the point of this kind of 'interview.' Basically, each candidate is asked a series of questions, each of which has a 'good' or 'bad' answer. The results will shock you.
You mean the fact that, even on the fairly open questions, they bot do their best to hedge their bets and say as little as is possible with as many words as possible? Yes, that's what happens when you interview professional politicians, and I have begun to wonder about the point as well.
Why do we put up with interviews that simply give these politicians a platform to speak, rather than interviews that actually question them in depth? How about trying to actually fish a position and some definitive words out of them, instead of letting them answer with the usual nice sounding but empty rhetoric.
Okay, to be fair to Nature this was a written interview, so they didn't really have much choice, but this style of political interview is pretty much all you see in the US.
1. Politician is asked a question.
2. Politician gives a stirring mostly pre-prepared speech that may even have some vague relevance to the question asked.
3. Interviewer moves on to the next question.
What's with that?! Watch some BBC interviewers - I'd love to see nice half hour or hour interview of Kerry or Bush conducted by some of the BBC political interviewers. I think I would learn far more in that half hour than I have in all the election coverage so far.
Jedidiah.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
This is interesting: "what would you do to ensure that your administration receives genuinely impartial scientific advice?"
Both essentially answer: "It is really important to get impartial advice, that's why I will take only impartial advice."
Both don't get at all into the problem - which is "how do you know what advice is impartial?".
Both answers have nice parts like Bush's world class sentence "I have sought out the best scientific minds..." - completely ignoring that the question was "how do you deal with the problem that it is hard to know what good science is?"
Kerry's reasoning is equally interesting when he says "[Hey, how do I ensure that I receive impartial advice?] My administration would never utilize biased advice."
That's true Mr. President. You can very well be sure that you receive impartial advice when you just don't utilize the biased advice!
JUST ALWAYS BE SURE THAT YOU PERSONALLY SEEK OUT THE BEST SCIENTIFIC MINDS!
Both candidates didn't say anything about the problem itself stating trueisms of the worst order.
You can attach boosters to anything. It just costs more. -
Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 07, @12:26PM
The aforementioned term springs from the same mindset from which the term "World Series" is applied to a US-only baseball league.
Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?
They ask an interesting question about star wars here. Bush claims that the program is working, and will be much more fully operational soon, Kerry says that more research is needed. However, the question only focuses on the scientific aspects of the system, not on it's stratagic usefulness. The world is much different than it was during the Soviet era. During the soviet era, outside the possibility of submarines the only way for the Soviets to attack the US was through missiles, because we hardly did any trade at all with our "enemy", but today the world is much different.
Suppose North Korea really wanted to nuke the US. They have missiles that could potentially reach Alaska, MAYBE California, and will soon have the nuclear technology to make weapons, if they don't have it already. But if North Korea really wanted to attack the US, why would they use a missile whose source can be detectable when they could just sneak a missile on one of the thousands of Chinese ships that come to the US each year that go virtually unsearched by customs? North Korea would have to be morons not to have spies working in the Chinese shipping industry(unbeknowst to China of course).
We are just dumping money down the drain on a system that is questionable both scientifically and strategically.
Monstar L
Throughout his time in office, President George Bush has been slammed by environmentalists for avoiding steps to reduce global warming. Climate experts recommend cuts in greenhouse-gas emissions - and John Kerry pledges to take a greener stance.
Kerry is also very careful to not actually commit to anything. He'll consider options, but potentially he could continue right along with Bush's current policy, and it would not actually contradict what he said.
Jedidiah
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
How good would it be to see an interviewer sit down and totally grill Bush or Kerry for a good hour, with no aides or press secretaries, or time limits to force them to move on, and with no fear of losing 'access' and no drip-fed policy announcements and spin.
I often think about this. I think I have decided that open press conferences should be consitutionally mandates. The President should have to face the public and the press at least once a week throughout his term, and during the campaign there should be both compulsory debates and compulsory open press conferences. None of this stage managed bullshit.
Doonesbury says it well.
Read Pynchon.
And what would either of those questions have proved? That neither Bush nor Kerry are scientists?
Bush and Kerry do not make policy, they are just the public faces presenting the policies of their respective parties.
Whether the creation of personality politics where you vote for the most attractive public face ("Oh, I don't like him, he has a parking ticket, I'll vote against him") rather than on parties and their policies is a good or bad thing I'll leave for you to decide.
Any president who reads the bible for help making presidential decisions cannot be pro-science,
As opposed to Kerry, who tries to affiliate himself with the Catholic Church to garner votes, only to be told by the Church itself to buzz off. Guess what? They're BOTH Politicians, and the parties really don't differ that much -- and the few things they differ on are divisive indeed. What they'd like you to ignore are all the similarities -- they're both plutocrats..
My point is, don't bank on a politician to be the source of change for the better. You can do more yourself, in a single day, to positively affect your own life and those around you than either Bush or Kerry can in 4 (or 8!) years.
A computer without Microsoft is like ice cream without ketchup.
Political diversity can only be good for a country like the US.
Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?
First, it's a Bush vs. Kerry piece on slashdot concerning science, a definite fire hazard. And to make the situation all the more flammable, the assertion is made that pro-science and pro-religion are mutually exclusive ideas.
Science and religion can co-exist, for evidence I submit Isaac Newton, as a classic example, and Dr. Donald Knuth, as a more modern one. Donald Knuth has written a number of papers and books on the topic of computer science, as well as having written "3:16", which offers analysis of Chatper 3, Verse 16 of every book in the bible.
One need not reject science to be religious, and one need not reject religion to be scientific.
I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this margin is too small to contain.
My Republican economics, math, IT, and philosophy profs would beg to differ.
But in terms of actual, well, science (physics, astronomy, biology), yeah most of them oppose the Republicans. Mostly because they want to take physics and make more nuclear weapons (to stop other countries from getting nuclear weapons), ignore astronomy for 'flags and footprints,' and eliminate biology altogether by claiming that evolution is a myth and stem cells are people.
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
I'm an athiest, yet I don't need a set of rules written down in a book to know what is right and wrong. My morals are consistent also.
I've heard this argument before, but I just don't get it. Do you honestly feel that an athiest is some kind of wild-man who runs around in a totally sociopathic way?
Come on...
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
It's possible to lead someone without having authority over them. In fact, that's the way leadership usually works. Anyone can command somebody who has to obey them. But true leaders encourage, inspire, and persuade people who don't *have* to follow them.
That's how captains of athletic teams are usually picked, and why middle linebackers are so important to the performance of a football team's defensive backs. The US military picks its combat leaders based on their performance *before* they have authority, not after.
The leader of the free world, if the US President abandoned that role, could just as well be French President Jacques Chirac or Nigerian President President Obasanjo.
Jon
-- http://www.cerastes.org
By supporting Arlen Spectre over his challenger, Bush basically guaranteed that any of his allegedly anti-abortion judicial candidates would be "Borked" again. It was Spectre, a republican, that went off like a rabid attack dog on Bork when IIRC Bush senior was trying to get him approved. And do you know what the irony of it is? Bork is the kind of conservative that would have ripped Microsoft a new asshole on its anti-trust case if it had gone to the SCotUS.
Between his support for spectre, illegal alien amnesty, spending like a stripper with a stolen credit card, new entitlements and his equivocation on supporting Israel he stands to lose the Christian Right from the comments I've been reading on right-of-center sites. Most of them are not commentary sites either, but forums like FreeRepublic.
Unfortunately most of these guys will be deusch bags in 2004 and would stay home rather than vote for Petruka the Constitution Party candidate. Why? If it ain't the big guy, and it ain't their big guy, no point in voting. Most of them are probably working class or barely in the middle class because they cannot connect two simple facts: if they came out and voted LP or CP instead of voting for Bush, the minor parties would get so many votes that the RP would be howling in pain in 2004 and would be whoring itself out to the right to get its base back. But they won't do that, so why should the Republicans give a flying fuck about the Christian Right anymore?
As I have often quipped, we libertarians are the principled on the right, the "christian right" aren't principled, their voting habits show it. Rather they are merely the spoiled brats of the right.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
In answer to just about every single question, Kerry pledges to do more, fund more, oversee more, and spend more.
Sure, that is all well and good, but if he is actually elected he will realize that it will surely be impossible to do all that he has pledged, even with all the increases in Taxes that he has planned.
I saw Bush's answers as much more definative and realistic.
geremy
Not even close. I'm an American (actually I have dual-citizenship, but that's neither here nor there) and I think that many non-Americans are very poorly informed about the issues involved in this election. I read the foreign papers (I speak French and Portuguese), and the analyses I have found therein are extremely cursory and often irrelevant. I had a discussion on Iraq with my cousin who is not an American and he spouted off this nonsense about war for oil. My brother is currently living in France and is inundated with idiots who think Bush is Hitler (and who apparently have no understanding of their own history).
Whatever side you come down on in this election, Americans believe that this is an extremely important one. And not just for foreign policy reasons. The country is making a choice between a candidate with strong socialist leanings (wanting to nationalize healthcare) and one with more capitalist ones (Medicare expansion notwithstanding). Quite frankly, the American issues you care about are only a small fraction of the ones I care about. Taxes, school vouchers, Social Security reform, healthcare, tort reform, and judicial appointments matter to me. There is no way that these issues matter to you in the same way.
If non-US citizens could vote, they would select the candidate that emasculates American military and cultural influence the most in order to shift the worldwide balance of power in their favor. Based on America's interests both domestically and abroad, I am confident that Americans will not vote in the same way.
Well, I thought that Kerry's answers were generally a stark contrast to Bush's. Where as the Bush answers tended to be the standard ambiguous crap that usually comes out of his Whitehouse, the Kerry answers offered some firm decisions on some matters and ones that will make some officials sweat profusely if he wins.
For instance, on further Nuclear weapons, he was straight to the point. I paraphrase, "We will discontinue research for next-generation Nuclear weapons, they are not needed."
Also, he was very firm on all questions regarding international matters that America needs to work as part of the international community and not alone (read: not invading countries without the support of the UN or abandoning important treaties like Kyoto). It was good to see such positive assertions.
I also wonder why he's so consistent in referring to 'John Edwards and I'. Perhaps he wants to underline that he won't be a lone ranger?
This guy might actually be a reasonable dude. Of course, we all know that power corrupts, so it will be interesting to see if he (and John Edwards) stick to his (their) guns if Kerry does become the next president.
But whether Kerry can beat Bush probably comes down to whether people believe that Kerry will "kill those darned terrorisms that perpopulate the global world order and need exterminating by sending Arnie to war". Which is quite a sad indigtment of American politics. I don't know why I complain, British elections seem to pivot on who the Sun, Mirror, and Star (ie. the 'gutter' tabloids) tend to support. That and Blair is better than any current alternative.
Which makes me wonder... I wonder how Bush would do in a Prime Minister's Question time that Blair blazes through every Wednesday. (If you don't like Blair, you should watch PMQs, he's really rather good at verbally destroying anybody who attempts to attack him.)
Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary
Um yeah.... If they were attempting to kill non-US citizens on non-US territory, the US would have no right to hold them. That doesn't mean it would be "ok", but it would be Canada's job to arrest and hold them. And don't think that they wouldn't.
Addlepated - punk & metal
Everyone on the planet will be "influenced" by the results of this election. Whether it be a continuation of the "send troops first, try diplomacy last" policy of the current administration, to the U.S. continuing to use WAY more than our fair share of energy (and producing WAY more than our fair share of CO2), to the U.S. being seen as a bully to the rest of the world instead of being seen as a friend to the rest of the world -- Yes, everyone will be influenced.
If you thought the last presidential was divisive, this one will be ten times more so...
You think possibly the fact that not a SINGLE person in the senate voted (95 to 0) that the Kyoto treaty as it stood was acceptable, might also be a reason why he didn't persue entering into it?
In fact Bush has said that he supports the concept of the Kyoto treaty, (which would basically contradict what you are trying to say that he doesn't believe that humans can cause issues) but like ALL the other senators (remember every single one said don't sign it, Dem & Repub) has issues with the writing.
And it's not just all the US Senators, here's an open letter from SCIENTISTS also concerned with the content of the Kyoto treaty. http://www.envirotruth.org/openletter.cfm I'd say that a number of nations were rushing to "pat themselves on the back" rather than actually solving the issue.
I don't believe for a second that Bush could even successfully read his responses in there, much less understand what they mean.
Clearly the questions were provided in writing where others could answer, not verbally where they had to answer for themselves.
That makes both sets of answers largely meaningless.
http://www.fairvote.org/turnout/preturn.htm
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html
http://www.fec.gov/pages/htmlto5.htm
http://www.multied.com/elections/
Look at some of the figures on that last link. The last time the turnout went above even 70% was 1900 - and that was a 2 party election. Hell the turnout 1896 was almost 80%, and that was a 2 party election too. So I'm legitimately curious about this, guys - if what I'm saying is a bunch of crap then why in the last century have voter turnouts held around the 50%-60% range? Are we waiting for something? The right issue, or set of issues? The right guy? The right scandal? I'd honestly like to know.
You have to forgive people for thinking that the motivation for the invasion of Iraq had something to do with oil.
Because as it has become apparent, it certainly had nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction, nor with 'liberating' the Iraqi people. Or if it did, it was executed so incompetently that claiming an ulterior motive is almost charitable.
None of the evidence that has come to light so far paints the actions of the current US administration in a positive light, inasmuch as it relates to the wars it has started. As regards other international affairs, it has actively fought any steps that would impinge upon the short-term benefit of large US corporations, for example in the arms industry, drug manufacture, agriculture. And of course there is the blatant disregard for the US' contribution to global warming.
Policies based in religious thought, not science, shape the US' position when looking at international family planning and poverty issues; the US has thrown its political weight around in trying to stymie UN policies on education and family planning which touch on contraception.
In international policy the US has been consistently belligerent; even now it is unilaterally trying to bully Iran on nuclear issues. It has strained relations with major allies, and amazingly has made itself even more disliked in the middle East.
So there are very good reasons why people outside the US have a very low opinion of Bush. Calling him a modern Hitler is hyperbole, but such low opinion of him is not unfounded.
That's a tiger rock.
Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
[Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange]
Just because you haven't suffered another attack doesn't mean that your country is safer, or Bush has done his job. I'm not saying he hasn't, but you're attributing to causality what you can only attribute to correlation. It's like me BLAMING Bush for the attacks because there weren't any attacks on the U.S. before he came along.
Most of Bush's answers seem to not make much sense or have major terminology errors...
But in the answer to question 6... "ITER is a critically important experiment to test the feasibility of nuclear fusion as a source of electricity and hydrogen." (emphasis added)
Perhaps one of the many scientific reviewers that parsed his comments before sending them to nature should've let him know that fusion actually consumes hydrogen?
Oh and on question 3... is "fissile materials" really a word?
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
I haven't seen US territory get hit with another major attack in the last three years.
This is not meant as a troll--although this is the hardest topic to avoid starting one in--but if we were hit, would you change your vote?
I ask because I firmly believe that we will be hit if Uncle Al thinks it'll help his goals, and I don't think that we can prevent it if Uncle Al cares to execute it. But then the question becomes: a) does Uncle Al prefer to see Bush or Kerry in control? I believe that there are arguments for either, which I'll probably have to elaborate on in the thread below; and b) would an attack make Bush more or less re-electable? Americans would surely feel the same wave of patriotism that they did the first time, and rally behind the commander-in-chief; otoh, Bush has credited himself with making the world and the US in particular much safer since he's the guy in charge. If Uncle Al puts a lie to that, are Americans likely to hold him accountable?
It's hard to me to guess, since I'll be voting for Kerry regardless of what happens. So I'm interested to hear from a "leaning-to-Bush" kinda guy to know if your vote could be flipped by an attack. I'm guessing that it couldn't be--but it seems like you've predicated your decision on his ability to make us safer, and if it's demonstrated that he really hasn't, I wonder if your opinion will change.
(Just to make sure this gets modded as a troll--I can't believe Cheney's latest statements, to the effect of: vote for Kerry and we'll be attacked; we've made the world safer, as we haven't been attacked since 9/11 due to our response. Either they know a lot more about Uncle Al's capability than I do--entirely possible--or they're doing a lot of wishful thinking and whistling past the graveyard. Uncle Al has already shown a willingness to influence the democratic process, so to challenge them to do it again seems like a stupid stupid stupid thing to do. I think it would have been much smarter to say "re-elect Bush as he's the only guy with the gumption to complete the job that's been started but to say that the job is over when it clearly isn't is just boggling. Didn't they learn from the Bring It On and the Mission Accomplished tough talk?)
--
$tar -xvf
I disagree... Bush clearly states bills he's signed in the past and what he plans in the future, and in some cases is clearly more realistic than Kerry...
For example, on the stem cell question, Bush makes it quite clear that people should stop thinking of stem cell research as a solution to all medical problems, and especially NOW, at the current time, we shouldn't be giving false hope to people who have recently been diagnosed. Bush also talks about what he's actually done a lot more than Kerry, who has had 20 years to actually take the initiative on something.
As far as the nuclear weapons (and the missile defense question) go, here is where we start to see a stark difference in answers, and so it depends on which side of the fence you are on... both gave reasonable and direct responses, I just happen to support the President's side of those issues, especially now that North Korea has nuclear weapons and probably the conveyance to get them to U.S. soil. Moreover, in the past few years, we've seen other countries become nuclear powers... including India and, if I'm not mistaken, Pakistan. It behooves us to stay ahead of the curve.
By the fifteenth question, I was actually getting annoyed at the "John Edwards and I will pass..." respones. Really? You can sidestep congress and just pass those things on your own? Well, learn something new every day.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
It happened. And Bush and co. were pissed.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
The theory that a vote for Nader/Badnarik is a vote for Bush stems from the idea that people who vote for change are probably voting for Kerry and not for Bush.
When the choice is between a candidate from Party A who supports invading Iraq, opposes gay marriage, and thingks the FCC should have additional censorhip rights and a candidate from Party B who supports invading Iraq, opposes gay marriage, and thingks the FCC should have additional censorhip rights, the only vote for change is Part C.
Kerry == Bush.
> Um, he's the guy who cut taxes. Kerry wants to raise them, er, repeal the cuts, er, something, unless you actually ask him, or something.
The original poster was giving an "even if" argument, not saying he raised taxes.
But, yes.. Bush did the tax refund thing. Oh boy, that $300 check really made a big difference for me. That was certainly worth growing the deficit even further than it already was. It was also at a time after the economic bubble had burst, and everyone knew the budget surplus was long gone. But, the Bushies pushed ahead, defying all logic or facts (a precedent for their Iraq policy), and did the tax refund anyway.
To me, a $300 tax break is not worth plunging the country further into debt, making the prospect of social security for my generation even more tenuous.
Just because we survived Reaganomics once doesn't mean it's sound fiscal policy.
Yeah, instead of false hope, it's much better to give them NO hope at all.
(We've not gone quite as far south as Russia, but Bush says he looked into Putin's soul and found a friend... and, no, I don't feel confortable posting this under my real name. Yes, it's that bad now in America.)
Look I hate Bush as much as anyone else, but that simply isn't true. Go to any left blog and look at some of the ranting there. Do you think those people are being tracked and locked up?
Ummm
It's not as if the only people who have been detained were provably in the act of actually trying to kill US citizens on or off US territory.
A lot of the detainees in Guantanamo were actually non-US citizens found in a non-US territory who have yet to have been proven to have any intention of killing US (or otherwise) citizens. The government has refused to provide any evidence outside of closed military tribunals to back this up. They've just said 'unlawful combatants' and said the Geneva convention doesn't apply.
The person who you were responding to was pointing out this very same thing.
So, er, what right to hold these people is this actually acting on again? Certainly not for having actually found them in the act or demonstrated what they're accused of.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I'm really disappointed the answer to so many of these questions is "Oh, we'll spend more, of course". Kerry's speech at the DNC was much the same. There he started out saying he'll balance the budget and then 90% of his speech is what he'll spend more on. I didn't get to see Bush's speech, but I imagine it was much the same. If politicians weren't allowed to be such flim flams maybe we would start seeing actual solutions being proposed like ending the war on drugs, tossing out the nuke stockpile, breaking up the two party system for something more democratic (lol, ok fat chance on that one), etc..
Your Prayers Have Been Answered.
Stream
Use Real, Real Alternative, Quicktime or VLC. Not sure about WMP.
A real interview with the President. With a real jounalist from Ireland. From late June 2004 with Irish broadcasting.
OMG do he look incompetent. This is the little known but infamous interview where he claims that Pakistan is a democracy!
From the transcript:
[My emphasis]
Well as you will understand after viewing that; there is a reason why this is the only lenghty interview with non-preapproved questions he will do with a decent journalist asking real questions not just picthing.
Melius mori in libertate quam vivere in servitute.
"Bush makes it quite clear that people should stop thinking of stem cell research as a solution to all medical problems, and especially NOW, at the current time, we shouldn't be giving false hope to people who have recently been diagnosed."
Let's turn that around, shall we? Replace "oil exploration" with "stem cell research".
Bush makes it quite clear that people should stop thinking of [oil exploration] as a solution to all [energy] problems, and especially NOW, at the current time, we shouldn't be giving false hope to people who have recently been [paying jacked-up oil prices].
One more time, with "ballistic missile defense system".
Bush makes it quite clear that people should stop thinking of [the ballistic missile defense system] as a solution to all [national security] problems, and especially NOW, at the current time, we shouldn't be giving false hope to people who have recently been [attacked by terrorists]
See, when you divorce the logic from the religious dogma held by some re: stem cell research, it's sounds incredibly stupid doesn't it?
I completely agree. Bush sure makes it easy to say there were no reasons other then economic gain for invading Iraq because he continues to lie about the reasonings for the war in the first place.
The facts are pretty simple. We had been saying for years that any WMD programs Saddam did have were moved out of country. There army was completely crippled from the early 90's. They had no proven links with the terrorists. Yet we are suppose to be stupid enough to believe they were a threat to the well being of us in the US?
Truth is Iran and Saudi Arabia are the two countries most involved with the terrorism. Iran admits to having a WMD program. We have proven they funded people like Bin Ladin. We have discovered that all of the major terrorist leaders either live in Saudi or Iran. Course you don't see us lined up to fight them do you? Saudi leaders are Bush family friends and we would want to jeopardize the military bases we have there (there are more US military bases in Saudi Arabia then any other country other then the US). Iran is actually organized well enough to fight a war if we showed up, and the economic gain from fighting a war with them wouldn't be nearly as high.
We would have been far better off spending the billions we have spent in Iraq to fix problems on our own soil, or to cut down on some of our debt. Instead we spend get to spend billions on Iraq and Bush wants to cut taxes. It doesn't take a smart person to realize that is a terrible idea. Which is of course why we have never ever had a tax cut during a war.
Kerry probably isn't the best person to lead the US. But Bush has proven he is a terrible person to do the job.
I don't typically vote Democrat, but I sure as hell will in this election.
The first assumption has no value - whether the Earth is cool or not compared to most of it's history doesn't matter. It suits us and our civilisation.
On the second assumption - almost all scientists involved in any kind of climate research would maintain that human action is very likely to be responsible for this. It's only in the US (out of the developed world) where there is any political disagreement on this...
For example, on the stem cell question, Bush makes it quite clear that people should stop thinking of stem cell research as a solution to all medical problems, and especially NOW, at the current time, we shouldn't be giving false hope to people who have recently been diagnosed
Well, that's a bit of straw man isn't it? You don't have to have a cure for Alzheimer's NOW to justify research on a future stem cell based Alzheimer's treatment NOW.
Suppose a concerted stem cell research effort (not just getting out of the way, but active promotion) might lead to cures in, perhaps, ten or twenty years. Twenty years is within the expected lifetime of most Americans, and many would stand to benefit if successful therapies are devised. Even if stem cell research does not result in viable therapies in the lifetime of most Americans, it will still advance the basic science needed to find other avenues of therapy.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
So there are very good reasons why people outside the US have a very low opinion of Bush. Calling him a modern Hitler is hyperbole, but such low opinion of him is not unfounded.
... or listen to off-the-record commentary by friends and acquaintances stationed there (none of the folks I know actively serving in the miliarty ... admittedly the several I do know are not a statistical universe, but nevertheless ... will be voting for Bush)].
... a price the Bush's and the Republicans are only too happy to pay.
Calling Bush Hitler is not only Hyperbole, it is also a disservice. Differences between Bush and Hitler abound, including but not limited to Hitlers legitimate election vs. Bush's coup d'etat of 2000, Hitler's staging of a terrorist attack vs. Bush's exploitation of a real attack, Hitlers murder of millions vs. Bush's murder of tens of thousands, Hitlers antisemetism vs. Bush's uncritical support of Sharon, and Hitlers devout Catholocism vs. Bush's devout Methodist(ism).
Bush is far more comparable to Milosevic. A toxic leader, with a toxic idealogy and a toxic agenda, who has no compunction about starting wars in smaller countries he ultimately cannot win, perpetuating atrocities on a relatively minor scale (Abu Ghraib, Gitmo), disregarding international law and norms to the point of alienating an ever dwindling number of friends and allies, stripping his own people of what civil rights and priveleges they once had in the name of "defending against [insert threat here]", leaving his own soldiers to die by the hundreds (or thousands) for no other purpose than to delay the inevitable defeat a timely amount (say, until after the November elections, or in Milosevic's case, until the end of negotiations), and ultimately leaving his country destitute and discredited in the world, to the point where its own citizens become reluctant to admit to their citizenship while travelling abroad.
Bush Junior isn't a Hitler. He is a Milosevic couched in a slightly different rhetoric, and he is in the process of teaching complacent Americans the same ugly lessons that Milosevic taught the Serbs a decade ago.
What is really depressing is how the Bush's and the Republicans have maneuvered themselves into a win-win situation with respect to the fiasco in Iraq through their delaying tactics in keeping Americans unaware of the ugly fact that we have already lost the war. [Yes, I know you folks in most of the rest of the world already know this, but keep in mind that our media is actively downplaying the fact that we're losing the war: most people here aren't even aware that most of Iraq, including most of its major cities, are in insurgent hands, and our troups virtually holed up in their bases under siege. One has to go to the German, French, Russian (thank you babelfish!), and other foreign media to get any inkling as to what is really going on over there
Delay Americans' realization that Bush started a war he lost until after the November elections. If Bush wins, they win the presidency and can withdraw, with four years to get the American people to forget about what he has done (probably by starting a whole new mess we'll be concerned about instead). If he loses, he leaves Kerry with an untenable situation, Kerry pulls out, and the Republicans can spin it as "weak Democrats who didn't see it through."
The only cost are a few hundred American lives, and a few thousand Iraqis
I would weep for the future of this country, if there were one. I fear it resembles that of Yugoslavia only too closely.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
You are wrong too.
It is the Legistlature job to write laws(bills).
It is the Executives job to write laws(executive orders).
It is the Judicial job to write laws(judicial activism).
Here is my problem with John F. Kerry. He has had 20 something years in the Senate to author any legislation he thinks is good for America. Exactly what is his record on producing such legislation. Name 10. Name 9. Name 2. He has been sitting on his ASS for 20 years. 20 years of Senate, and still we don't know where he stands. It seems as if he is for and against everything. Prolife and prochoice. Pro Gun, anti gun.
Here is my problem with George W. Bush. He takes a stand, right or wrong, and "stays the course". We have a record of how things have been done for 4 years, and it is clear where he stands, like him or not.
Which is why I am voting LIBERTARIAN. With overriding moral platform of LIMITED Government AND Personal Responsibility. Government cannot replace responisibilty and the responsible don't need governance.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
> the candidate that emasculates American military and
> cultural influence the most
Ah, are you implying then that they'd vote for the candidate who tied up the U.S. military in an unnecessary war (Iraq), leaving us vulnerable to a resurgent Al Quaeda (going into Iraq forced us to give less attention attention to re-building Afghanistan), an increasingly aggressive N. Korea, not to mention other "Axis of Evil" members?
Or are you implying that they'd vote for the candidate who would squander the world-wide goodwill expressed towards the U.S. post 9-11 via ham-fisted diplomacy and the above military action?
Or maybe they'd vote for the candidate whose fiscal irresponsibility has driven the nation into an unprecedented degree of debt, all the while without a net creation of jobs (the latter of which no president has accomplished since Hoover, who presided over the Great Depression).
BTW, nice slur against Kerry - implying that a willingess to acknowledge and work with other nations towards mutual benefit is "emasculation", as opposed to intelligent foreign policy!
I hope that you're proud of your talking points!
And not even then. I am a Southern Baptist who believes in the literal truth of the Bible. I also believe that phrases like "a thousand thousand angels" means "more people than I've seen in one place during my life in a sparsely-populated desert region", and "a thousand years" means "a period of time longer than my cultural upbringing has prepared me to comprehend".
Put another way: suppose God spoke to me and said "here is the timeline of Creation. See that dot? That's you. See that dot? That's the end of the Universe as you understand it. Go tell people.". Say I was a shepherd that had never heard of a number larger than "one thousand", and that was referring to a flock of sheep large enough to really impress me that "thousand" means "a whole lot". I'd probably come back with something like "the Universe will end after thousands of thousands of years". I would be speaking the literal truth within my ability to express the concepts that I had never encountered before.
When someone tells me that it's 10:45 AM, I don't think that it's really 104500.000000UTC. Why people assign arbitrarily precise values to bits of information that are inherently imprecise, either to prove that their interpretation of the Bible is The One True Way or that the Bible is a self-contradictory load of BS, is completely beyond me.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
That said some points: This definition of "pregnancy" was initiated to accommodate the introduction of the process of in vitro fertilization, where fertilization takes place artificially outside the mother in a petri dish, and then the embryo is artificially introduced into the woman's uterus so that implantation of the embryo can take place.
Unless they vastly improved their methods, in vitro fertilizations means artificial fertilization of a number of eggs. A part is then placed in the uterus (where most simply die off) the rest is frozen for some time to see if they are needed and end in the trash after that. Mass murder.
As the well-known neurological researcher D. Gareth Jones has succinctly put it, the parallelism between "brain death" and "brain birth" is scientifically invalid. "Brain death" is the gradual or rapid cessation of the functions of a brain. "Brain birth" is the very gradual acquisition of the functions of a developing neural system. This developing neural system is not a brain. He questions, in fact, the entire assumption and asks what neurological reasons there might be for concluding that an incapacity for consciousness becomes a capacity for consciousness once this point is passed.
Ok, if this neural system might already be a sign of consciousness he'll still have to explain how there should be consciousness before the cells start differentiating (somewhere around day 6 iirc). So the morning-after pill should be all right.
Now if you're not one of the pro-life pet-scientists you should agree that consciousness before about week 20 is ridiculous.
To put it in other terms, would you rather invest $100 in an investment with a 6% return or one with a 37% return?
a 6% investment because 37% sounds LIKE SOME INVSETEMENT HAILALE MBUNGA EXPRESIDENT OF NIGERIA WUOLD SUGEST TOO YU
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
I read through the first ten questions. I was surprised -- Bush was aware of the issues and gave pretty good answers. However, his answers contradict what his actions have been. Kerry, on the other hand, often avoided answering the question. For example, the question about whether Americans should consume less, he answered that we should be diligent about avoiding pollution. I prefer Kerry's approach -- if he's bothering to weasel, that probably means what he says has some bearing on what he'll do.
I'm impressed by just how many topics they manage to be aware of and have an opinion on.
"Hmm...FOX News not aligned with the right...."
Dear heavens. Why does this nonsense always pop up? FOX is "!rightwing" because it presents news at an angle you don't like?
besides, what about New York Times with the "left"? I don't hear you whining about that ? Because you like that bias, perhaps ?
"Besides, FDR was acting with world support against a common foe, while Bush eschewed world support against a 3rd world country that harbored no ties to Al Qaida or had any chance of launching a missile outside of their own back yard. But it's the same thing."
Nonsense. There was a tremendous opposition to joining in on the WWII in the USA before Pearl harbour, which was ironically partially provoked by PDF himself beforehand. The american people did not want to repeat the disaster of WWI. Regardin "international support", many nations praised Hitler's initative, especially in social areas, even Mohandas Ghandi and the then Catholic Pope! And yes, dammit, even W. Churchill himself (before germany started strong-arming Poland). Saying that FDR was a benevolent dictator while Bush is an evil one (which isnt true, dictatorwise anyway) is revisionism and should be unveiled for what it is.
Most of the question answer pairs go something like this: Nature: If elected, how will you balance [some issue - e.g. the environment] with [some conflicting issue - e.g. industrial growth]? Candidate: I plan on a adressing [issue one] without sacrificing [issue two]. sadly this is probably too late on the board to save anyone the trouble of actually reading the pseudo-interview, but hey, I tried.
not everything is a science experiment!
Does Cuba have a system in place whereby normal people can introduce changes to their government?
Does America? The answer is no. An accurate statement would be: America has a system in place whereby a group of people can introduce changes to their government. If your group isn't big enough, no one's listening.
Because its bullshit. Anyone who can't see a marked constrast between having ANYONE and George Bush in the White House is living in la la land. The Onion had it exactly right when Bush was elected with the headline "At last, our long nightmare of Peace and Prosperity is finally over." While I would rather have someone who more closely represented my own personal views, which are pretty liberal, the people seem to want a lot of red meat and a little policy wrapped up in some more red meat. Too much information and the candidate is a "wonk," too much playing nice and the other guys steamrollers you with illegitimate black babies, spousal drug abuse and secretly funded attack teams which lie about your war record.
I'm pretty sure I'd be uncomfortable with the foreign policy of a national leader who was really familiar with fallout shelter design....
~Idarubicin
The difference is that there has been evidence of planned attacks which have been thwarted.
That wouldn't be evidence collected by the same people who told you there were WMDs in Iraq, would it?
Saying it was "for the oil", as if the oil was a spoil of war we could easily ship back to the US in one fell swoop, is disingenious. It was for control of the oil so that the withholding of it cannot be used as a weapon against us to strangle our economy (and perhaps to use as a weapon to strangle other economies that threaten to overtake ours).
Control of the oil supply is actually a pretty sensible goal. However, that is not how the war was sold to Congress or the American people. Basically, they lied to us about the reasons for going to war, and are still lying.
Granted, if they had been straight forward, they wouldn't have been allowed to enter a war of aggression, but that's how democracy is supposed to work.
Another problem with lying to push policies through is that the liars seem to eventually believe their own lies. Thus, when the Iraqi people didn't accept us as liberators and dance in the streets, our leadership wasn't prepared (and still doesn't seem to be). There was no plan for winning the peace. If the administration had been honest about it's goals, one would hope they would also have a realistic plan for occupation.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
And while you might trumpet the lesser of two evils, I pity you for your shortsightedness and lack of character.
As I pity you for yours.
Really, it's just a difference of priorities. IMO the most important thing is to get Bush out, mainly because he'll take Cheney, Ashcroft, and the rest with him. The action most likely to achieve that is to vote for Kerry.
I may disagree with Kerry on a few issues, but I think he'll be a fine president. I don't need, or even want, a clone of myself or a puppet who just parrots my beliefs. What I want is someone capable of independent thought, who's not so blinded by their ideals that they can't at least give consideration to the opposing viewpoint.
I see those qualities in Kerry, and therefor conclude that he will be a fine president. Yeah I have some disagreements with him, but I have equivalent or stronger disagreements with every third party candidate I know anything about. A thoughtful man can be reasoned with, and is capable of changing his stance when he finds the available facts warrant it. So, I pick the one most likely to unseat Bush, which, if you recall, is my primary goal in this election.
Since I'm sure you're wondering what I meant in my opening sentence, here it is: Your shortsightedness is you apparant failure to recognize the extent of the damage Bush and company will do, not just in America but all over the world, if given another four years. Your lack of character is your refusal to do what's necessary to prevent that.
Remember, the only thing necessary for evil triumph is for good men to do nothing. I think you are a good man (social liberal + fiscal conservative = good in my book) who has allowed himself to be blinded by his ideals.
I don't mean to flame you necessarily, but it has always been my opinion that anyone taking so aggressive a stance has clearly missed something, and needs to be hit in the face with an opposing viewpoint.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.