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Recording Deals In The Digital Age

cascadefx writes "There is a really interesting panel wrap-up over at the National Association of Recording Industry Professionals's website. The Incredible Shrinking Profit Margin panel discussion looks like it included some interesting discussion into the deals that are made with performers now that the rules have changed. These notes offer interesting (perhaps hopeful) business predictions about Britney Spears' career as well as answering the (new)-age-old question about just how much an artist makes off of an iTunes download. Check it out."

40 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. Question is by dosius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why sell through the system at all anymore?

    FP?

    --
    What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    1. Re:Question is by Amiga+Lover · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > Why sell through the system at all anymore?

      Because you don't have a huge marketing machine behind you.

      Alright, that's only relevant to those artists who NEED a huge marketing machine behind them. There are plenty, PLENTY of good solid music producing people who can succeed on their own merits, given good enough distribution.

    2. Re:Question is by lavar78 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Alright, that's only relevant to those artists who NEED a huge marketing machine behind them. There are plenty, PLENTY of good solid music producing people who can succeed on their own merits, given good enough distribution.
      But the problem is getting good enough distribution without the huge marketing machine.
      --
      "Dave, I stand still--the conclusions jump to me!" - Bill McNeal, NewsRadio
    3. Re:Question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True, but they don't make as much as they would with larger companies behind them. There are some bands behind very small record labels that get popular completely through word of mouth, but they don't get THAT popular. I'm not saying EVERYONE would like them if they heard them, but more people than the amount needed for a song to be played 5000 times a day on the radio. Some examples: Something Corporate, The Starting Line, Copeland, Hidden in Plain View, Fall Out Boy, The Early November, Brand New, and a lot more from Drive Thru Records. I have never heard a single song by any of them on the radio, but they are exceptional bands with incredible music. And they all have more talent than Britney Spears.

    4. Re:Question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Why sell through the system at all anymore?


      We all know that the old saw "build a better moustrap and the world will beat a path to your door" is a load of crap. Nothing sells without Marketing and the best product is often buried by dreck because the dreck has better marketing.

      Linux only got traction beyond geek hobiests when there were companies (RedHat, IBM etc.) marketing it.

      It amazes me that folks that can realize that fact for the computer industry think that all a performer needs to be successful is talent.

      Sure, talent is great, but without a marketing machine behind you, you are just another starving artist who can't leave the day job behind.

      That's why.

    5. Re:Question is by Dirtside · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But the problem is getting good enough distribution without the huge marketing machine.
      That's what the Internet is for.
      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
  2. Brintey Spears' Career? by chill · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is she going into pr0n? At least in that case, if she opens her mouth, it'll be for a good reason!

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  3. Because by mcc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you sell through the system, talent is optional.

    If you sell outside the system, though, you have to succeed on your own merits.

    1. Re:Because by fermion · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Lets be fair. There are thousands of highly talented people out there. In the group that I run in, which is admittedly an artistic bunch, there are potential boy bands, folk trios, rock combos, rappers, 2D and 3D visual artists, performance artists, actors, writes, etc. All plenty talented to meet any local requirements, and possibly national requirements. Some are and have received limited success on their own merits.

      But to be a national act or international act, which is what the labels want, there has to be more. The act has to compete with the cheaper local stuff. The act has to have a basis to make the large newspaper and magazines. The act has to have a hook that can be spun and promoted and manipulated. The act has to want to be that famous so that it will make the artistic compromises.

      It is true that the compromises for a pop artist, to those of us that evaluate on artistic merit, are particularly gruesome. But I think all successful artists make these compromises. I often wonder if the music in a classical symphony enjoys playing the overture for Swan Lake for the millionth time in the exact same way. It probably does not matter as long as the rent gets paid.

      Ultimately pop music sells, so they must be doing something right. When classical was pop the reviews predicted the end of the art form. IIRC, the composers were called uncreative and barbarians. Spears has some cool stuff. She was nowhere near as creative as Madonna, and hopefully she spells the end of that particular formula, but if we are open we see that it is not as awful as we once thought.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  4. share croppers by loid_void · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Artists have always been share croppers for the man (record co's.. iTunes is the beginning of change. Artists, with guts, can make their deals direct with the new distribution channels, and they should, especially, anyone with a name that has a contract up for renewal.

    --
    Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
  5. All Hail the Great Predictor by cephyn · · Score: 4, Funny

    The prediction about Britney's career?

    "Britney Spears' career, as a pop artist, is over."

    Wow. That's some Insightful commentary. I mean, backing up a statement like that with support and facts and information is cool and all, but just one hopeful sentence like that is even COOLER.

    I'm going start predicting stuff like that. Hey, I predict that computer games will be different in the future.

    --
    Moo.
    1. Re:All Hail the Great Predictor by Carnildo · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm going start predicting stuff like that. Hey, I predict that computer games will be different in the future.

      I'm predicting computer games will be the same in the future. Hail Doom MCMXVIII!

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  6. There's A Hope? by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Britney Spears as a pop artist is over."

    It isn't Britney Spears I fear, but what comes after her. Seems to me that each iteration of manufactured talent is more sickening than the last. (One reason I don't watch American Idol, which seeks out the next 'talent' that fits the cookie cutter.)

    But consider that much of Spears' success was the performance. Sing, dance, strut about the stage, before spending the next few decades going from one failed relationship and addiction to the next until appearing on Good Morning America and announcing she's cleaned up, totally focused on life and ready for a comeback (no, not as a signer, but the next president.) Music downloads don't leave much room for performance, unless you plan to watchs someone frolic about on that miniscule screen on your cellphone. Admittedly, some acts have never had a top-ten song or little chart success anyway, but have enormous cult-like followings (i.e. Jimmy Buffet, are you a parrot head? ;-) and without enough curiousity or word-of-mouth, will people attend shows?

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:There's A Hope? by savagedome · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sing, dance, strut about the stage

      Sing?

  7. Since it's slashdotted... by notyou2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Obligatory google cache.

  8. Another interesting resource... by Sheetrock · · Score: 5, Informative
    I happened across Frontline: the way the music died the other night (PBS program watchable online in low or high bandwidth.)

    Good stuff -- they interview record execs and former/current/hopeful musicians and explain the sorts of problems the industry is facing. While people stealing music online is a factor, lesser-known factors are also discussed including the fact that sales figures may be sinking because people are finished replacing their record collections with CDs.

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




  9. Changing industry by Sefert · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The music industry is changing, along with the movie industry. Distribution channels are changing, and as such the method of getting your margin is going to change too. The RIAA's job of seeming to try and protect what is soon to be an outdated distribution scheme is pointless for the long term, and irritating for the short. A slimmer profit margin is no big deal, when you consider that it's not a few hundred companies trying to support their insfrastructure, but rather a half dozen online firms supporting theirs. Let's not forget that online distributors will never get caught with extra inventory. It's hard to run out of warehouse space. They have to worry less about shipments. In short, thinner margins that are consistent fit the business model. It's nothing to whine about, though of course the RIAA always has to find some large stick to shove in the wrong place.

  10. Seems to be more of the same tripe... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They say that their core buyers aren't buying. IIRC, every year, the recording industry beats inflation in terms of revenue and profit growth but they keep saying that they are going down the drain. And now this recording professionals group seems to be parroting the same line. That is one drain I'd like to go down.

    I'm not saying file sharing is necessarily good for them but it seems to be a case where they are trying to get enough people to say they are losing money often enough such that everyone believes them even if the facts are the opposite.

    1. Re:Seems to be more of the same tripe... by AgTiger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the core buyers aren't buying, Someone is.

      "Not only is the CD format alive and well, but it's emerging from the "online" revolution looking healthier than ever. 92 per cent of DRM-store downloaders surveyed by Entertainment Media Research prefer the plastic platters to their MP3 downloads..."

  11. Google cache by lothar97 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Text only from Google's cache

    --

  12. Bad deal by cubicledrone · · Score: 3, Interesting

    EA (Electronic Arts) will clear 60 masters, then use just 15 songs in a game, all at low rates. And they want to pay these low rates on a buyout basis, with no share of revenue, no points, and no step-deals.

    That's nice. I'd like a convertible with bucket seats and a six-speaker audio system. "They want" "They want" "They want" It's nonsense.

    Here's the product. Here's the price, LICENSED for a limited period in a specific market excluding all others. 15% advance in TALL LONG GREEN CASH DOLLARS WALKIN' DOWN THE BOULEFUCKINGVARD starting day one with a double-the-rate step up when the clouds part. Two minutes and we fold up the card table. Here's a pen.

    Artists own 100% before they sign the deal. The best way to make a good deal is not to make a bad deal.

    Phone companies take 50% of all downloads

    Only if the artists agree.

    "The phone could replace the iPod

    Everyone wants to be Apple.

    --
    Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    1. Re:Bad deal by PCM2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fair enough. But then again, maybe there's a distinction to be made between music that is produced as art and music that's produced as product.

      A friend of mine was approached by Electronic Arts to record maybe a couple dozen songs for a Sims expansion and The Sims 2, at a rate of $1,000 per song (buyout, as cited -- all rights included). He accomplished this, with the help of a few local musicians that he paid very little, in roughly 48 hours of studio time. He did it as product; nothing more, nothing less. As far as he's concerned, he got a pretty good deal.

      Now, this case is sort of an exception, because all of the lyrics to the songs have to be in Simlish. Pretty hard to find a market for that outside the franchise. But even if that weren't the case, is he really screwing himself, in your estimation?

      As a magazine editor, I regularly publish lots of work by authors who give up all rights to the material they produce. Very few of them have ever come back looking to reclaim those articles. They did that writing for money, just like my friend recorded those songs for money. And I've done the same, and I don't really regret it.

      Seems to me this notion of artists licensing their work to labels is just some kind of backlash to all this talk you hear about corporations wanting consumers to "license" their software and recordings. The way the corporation wants it, you never buy a CD, you license it. You never buy a disc of software, you license it. That sucks. So, great -- is the solution really for individuals to start acting like corporations?

      Whatever happened to getting hired to do a job and doing it, or producing a product and selling it, getting paid, and moving on to the next thing with the satisfaction of being an ethical businessman?

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  13. The Price IS Right! by ngkdc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They just don't get it ... do they? They charged admission to hear this great theory of business. Oh, and you can get a CD of the proceedings ... for $20. Quite accurately, they pointed out that their target audience just isn't buying records anymore. Oh the shock and horror of it all! Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results -- according to Einstein. Maybe that's it ... that's the answer ... the recording cartel (let's not pretend that it's an industry) is collectively insane. That's a much kinder, gentler (though less accurate) view than to say that the recording cartel is stupid and clueless. Even though I'm outside their demographics (no, I'm not at the low end!), I'll continue to buy music I like ... from the artist directly.

  14. On Spears and the record labels. by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If everyone shares the general opinion that people like Ms Sears and the rest of the crap spewed by the record labels isn't worth paying for, then who is doing the buying? I hate to break it to you, but there just isn't that much baby sitting money going around for the CDs to be purchased by pre-teens. Spears, Backstreet Boys etc SELL! Thats why they exist. Whats more, saying that the music is crap so they shouldn't get mad when I download it is basackwards. If its crap, there should be zero piracy. Why would you want to download it? If music is worth the download, its worth the 15$ for the CD. Everyone proclaiming the music to be bad seems to just be trying to come up with a reason to justify their disregard for the work of others.

    That having been said, I think the music is crap. But you wont catch me downloading it. For music I like, the cost of the CD is nothing VS the amount of enjoyment I get from it.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  15. Buying music online = ripping off support staff by killbill! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Slightly offtopic since this is not mentioned in the article at all, but since we're talking about recording deals...

    Don't buy music from sites like the iTMS or Napster. Ever. According to this article French Apple enthusiast site Mac Bidouille, support personel (eg dancers, clip director, sound techs etc) are not getting their cut from legal online sales.
    The reason? Record labels are unwilling to change their contracts, which ties royalties to the sales of physical media, not the song itself. That's outrageous. That's outright theft, pure and simple.

    (Article is in French. Grab a translation here.)


    Support the little guys. Download your albums off Suprnova NOW! ;p

    1. Re:Buying music online = ripping off support staff by bhny · · Score: 4, Informative

      dancers, clip directors, sound techs have never got any money from music sales.

    2. Re:Buying music online = ripping off support staff by killbill! · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just to clarify... in France they do.

      French copyright law is slightly different from UK/US copyright law. Its basis is not "copyright" (the right to copy), but "droits d'auteur" ("author rights"). It does not revolve about control of the work, but rather around making sure authors get fair compensation.

      Under French copyright law, sound techs (in post-production), dancers, clip directors are considered as co-authors, as much as the songwriter, musicians or the main performer, and thus get a cut from sales.

      What French (and other mainland European) artistic-technical support staff are complaining about is that the labels are using this change in the medium as a Trojan horse to deprive them of the rights they used to benefit from under the traditional copyright system.

      Since all labels are using this trick, and since artistic-technical staff have no have no say in choosing the label they are contracted with (the main performer's manager does), they are basically shafted.

  16. How about the Prince Model by Brigadier · · Score: 4, Interesting



    Reading an article recently on Prince's sales model. He makes $7.50 for each $10 CD. He controls distribution, handling advertising everything. If you've noticed the bill board charts lately his latest CD is doing well. My GF is a member of his sight where she can hang with other fanatics, or famatics as they call themselves. Prince has even managed to circumvent Ticketmaster to an extent. He sells a percentage of the floor seats through his site directly to his fans. I think everyone will agree that he is also the opposing force to any manufactured talent out there.

    1. Re:How about the Prince Model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only problem is, that the Prince name itself has a huge value when it comes to (self)promotion, including fan base, existing connections and just in "brand recognition". I would say, it could worth easily a 7 figure. This is exactly the very similar marketing power the big labels use to promote their favourites. Not to mention, that Prince made enough money previously to self finance his next project.

      Now, how does a no name garage band, with no capital compares to this?

  17. Re:Advice, please by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 2, Funny

    But I'm on a no-carb diet. Looks like it's gonna be rum.

  18. What do you mean, *only* ten percent? by Angst+Badger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't get me wrong -- I have great sympathy for musicians, other artists, and everyone else trying to get their fair share, but I can tell you that my salary as a programmer would be in the high six digits if I was paid 10% of the revenue my software generates for my employer. The artists' percentage alone is not really cause for much sympathy.

    What is royally fucked is the fact that artists could command much higher percentages if the music industry wasn't dominated by a cartel with the aid and abettance of easily-purchased legislators.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  19. Best line of the article by BandwidthHog · · Score: 2, Funny

    "CDs of program available: $20."

    Score: +17, Still-don't-get-it

    --

    Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
  20. CD of the discussion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can I get this on Kazaa?

  21. On Britney Spears by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do please believe me: the last thing I am is a Britney Spears fan. I couldn't even remember a tune from her.

    But to get things straight: She's been professionally singing and performing in Musicals on Broadway since about the age of 10. _professionally_, _singing_, _performing_, _age of 10_. Get it?
    The age when us kind was gaming on atari or SNES and was at least 3 years away from even doing our first lines of basic. She's a performer and an entertainer, and, believe it or not, she's damn good at it. With the support of an uber-patient mother and father she's worked herself up from that girl next door to somebody who's got a licence to print money. 'Tell you what: Go eat your hearts out.

    Bottom Line: I'd suggest the slashdot crowd quit babbling on stuff they can't summon the slightest shade of competence on (popular stage performance and entertainment) and go back to comparing sendmail and postfix. After all, that's what we're actually good at.
    Thank you.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:On Britney Spears by MarsDefenseMinister · · Score: 2, Funny

      Good God, what will we hear next? That Martha Stewart is a fantastic businesswoman AND can bake a damn good cake?

      Oh wait, that's true too.

      --
      No weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men.-Ronald Reagan
    2. Re:On Britney Spears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You've overlooked one obvious point. It doesn't matter how long she's been doing it, she still sucks.

  22. Re:So punishment == deterrent, then. by The+Only+Druid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not sure if its worth mentioning, but the old line that "the theory 'eye for an eye' leaves us all blind" is still largely true. More disturbingly, it suggests that rehabilitation is completely impossible.

    --
    "Stumble before you crawl"
  23. Re:share croppers (or maybe indentured servants) by bitingduck · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sharecroppers is a pretty good term, but indentured servant almost applies, since many artists end up owing the label money, with their work tied up legally so they can't rerecord it, and sometimes contracts they can't escape from. Most artists don't earn jack from the record label (even fairly big and well known artists). If something gets a lot of airplay (or clubplay, or anything that BMI/ASCAP collect money for), they may get some money from publishing, but even that's iffy for a lot of artists who have a small but steady following. For every Madonna or Britney Spears, the labels have screwed a thousand smaller artists who don't suck, but aren't consistent with the business model of "small range of product, huge distribution".

    The reason you're seeing "name" acts like They Might Be Giants (and one of my favorites, http://www.neubauten.org) going it alone is that they weren't making any money being on a record label anyway, and they can find a way to do better by dealing with distribution on their own over the web (or combination web and snailmail). A lot of these bands never had terribly good support from their label anyway, and got to be known through word of mouth/college radio/touring. Over the next few years we can probably expect to see some bands make it big without being on a major. Then they just have to deal with Clear Channel's attempts to control major venues...

    (only partially off topic: I know a computer wargame company that also has done extremely well by self publishing after having bad experiences with the big publishers, and then subsequently acting as a very developer friendly boutique publisher for similar games. http://www.battlefront.com)

    Here's the obligatory link to Steve Albini's "Problem with Music" article: http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
    and another to a long (~hour) video clip of him giving a talk and answering questions (http://www.mtsu.edu/~nadam/downloads/Stevealbiniw eb.html). The issue of independent bands and filesharing comes up, and most people he knows don't have much problem with filesharing- they're not getting paid by their distributors anyway.

  24. Re:A lousy dime. by pknoll · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Yes, they all take their cut. Because printing, advertisement, research, distribution, promotion, transportation, development, bandwidth, storage, administration, and a million other things along the way (depending on whether you're Apple or MCA or a record store or a truck driver) all cost money.

    I know musicians who are in the self-publishing space. They don't have labels, or promoters, or any of that stuff, and they're not on iTunes. So, not only are their choices for distribution more limited, but what they get in exchange for doing all of this themselves is a whole lot less free time, in which to write/play/record. They may make a bit more on each CD they sell--and it's not a LOT more, since none of the things they have to do are any more free than they are for the labels--but it costs them time to do it, and they have to run their own business besides.

    It's unfortunate that music is so popular that it requires an industry to feed it, and it's doubly unfortunate that the cost breakdown pays back based on the actual percentage expense of doing your part, rather than the effort, and triply so that that is abused by the labels, and I do hope the internet is going to change that, and soon. I think iTunes is one step along that road toward transforming the music business, but it won't happen overnight.

  25. 10 year Overnight Sucess by not_hylas(+) · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most of you all have seen the cartoon of a tree swing made by committee. (?)

    http://www.businessballs.com/treeswing.htm

    It reminds me of the record business.

    Seriously, some of the talent scouts really CAN tell what's really good just by listening (some got the job from their uncle/auntie).
    That's where the trouble starts, no one can make a decision-much less a decent pitch without invoking the gods of pop for comparison.
    The reason no one is buying is because they're picking stinkers.

    Example:
    Bonnie Raitt's Nick of Time.

    http://www.bonnieraitt.com/disc_nick_of_time.php

    Took marketing totally by surprise!, she was deemed "washed up".
    Surprise!

    The listening public had NO trouble picking this little gem out and making it gold (what? double platinum).

    Another artist they don't push:

    http://www.universalrecords.com/quicktime/ediebr ic kell/

    Brilliant stuff (for the genre).

    If the recording companies were smart they let us pick the hits.
    You know, a Fresh Artist, New release download area (with marketing pushing the site heavily).
    Many Ears make for a NO Brainer(TM)

    My favorite example:

    http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/corinnemusic

    These artists are hiding in plain site.

    The record companies (why yes, I DO know of what I speak) need to fire some people a get with the program.

    --
    ~hylas