Astronaut Wants Space Program With No Frills

colonist writes "A veteran astronaut wants less comfort and more exploration for future missions. British-born astrophysicist Michael Foale has clocked up 374 days in space, more than any other American astronaut. Foale said, 'We need lean and mean spaceships with no frills', such as toilets or kitchen. However, he would like better oxygen-producing systems for the space station. Foale also talked about the Russians: they played 'some sort of Russian folk song. I'm not so sure it calmed me a lot.' As Foale boarded the Soyuz, an official kicked him in the back: a Russian launch tradition. From space, Foale saw a large black cloud over the Middle East: smoke from a bombed oil pipeline in Iraq."

Comments

Well?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sice when did being able to take a dump become a 'frill'?

Re:Well?

[Mr. Slippery]

we simply had to hold it until we got back to Earth.

Alan Shepard didn't... Here is an interesting page about "creature comforts" in space.

A kick in the back?

[Anonymous Coward]

At least he didn't get a wine bottle smashed on his face or something. I bet they just tell foreigners the kick-in-the-back is customary. "Get a load of this guy, Vladimir!" Da!

Re:A kick in the back?

[Anonymous Coward]

A "kick of luck" is a figure of speech in both Finland and Sweden, when you get really lucky you've had a kick of luck ('onnenpotku' or 'lyckospark', respectively). And I think wishing for luck by giving a kick in the ass is a semi-humorous thradition which one sometimes sees here. I don't know which came first, the act or the linguistic concept, though.

Russian traditions?

[stratjakt]

an official kicked him in the back: a Russian launch tradition

What? Kicking ass is a proud American tradition with a long history. This is just an example of the westernization of Russia.

No toilets? Wouldn't that make for a really shitty space program?

Leaving the Garden of Eden

[RobertB-DC]

Foale's suggestions for leaving the comfort zone ring true on several levels. We can't really explore space until we're ready to leave the Garden of Eden behind. So far, we're trying to take it with us -- everything must be 100% safe, from the toilets to the astronauts themselves. We're not going to get past the walls of the garden until there's a flaming sword -- until we must either push forward or die.

I don't neccesarily mean that there will have to be some sort of global catastrophe, just that there will be no real exploration until a group of humans blasts off from Earth with no prospects to return. Ideally, they would be volunteers, but I don't think they can be the perfect psychological and physical specimens we're used to sending into space.

Space simply won't be a "real" place until we have a real human presence, and that means the bad as well as the good. Expanding into the new world takes more than just tilling the land and never moving on. To extend the Eden analogy further: Man didn't really start his journey until Cain's jealousy reached its breaking point. I don't think that's a story of one guy who got mad at his brother -- it's an allegory about mankind's darker side, and how it's an integral part of our experience.

To take a more recent example: when the US lost a dozen-plus troops in Somalia, we left with our tail tucked between our legs. Same thing a few years earlier in Beirut, when a few hundred troops were killed. But now, after losing several thousand lives in 9/11, we're able to bear the loss of hundreds in Iraq and Afghanistan... instead of turning tail, we're actually debating the issue.

We won't reach space in any meaningful way until all of humanity is represented -- both good and bad. That's why we're just spinning our wheels at the moment, playing on the outskirts of Eden. It won't be until Cain shows up -- until someone walks out the airlock in despair, someone fights over resources or a mate, or until there's a war over some metal-rich asteroid -- that humans will truly be able to call themselves citizens of space.

Re:Leaving the Garden of Eden

[SunPin]

People must die to succeed. Americans don't have a tolerance for death to match the amount of people they end up killing. The score in Mogadishu was 4000 dead Somalis to 12 dead U.S. soldiers. The media called that a defeat and the military wasn't sophisticated enough to set it straight. I think the Chinese will _completely_ change the rules of space exploration and make failure/death a necessary part of progress in space. It's no coincidence in my opinion that Americans have no real heroes because nobody lays their life on the line for big ideas. You don't see Foale or Benjamin Harris saying "Fuck it all. Today is a good day to die." That's the kind of attitude _a_ space program needs. Athletes make poor heroes. This space exploration problem runs deep.

When *I* was your age

[Anonymous Coward]

We had to travel into orbit, UPHILL BOTH WAYS. We didn't have any of this new-fangled technology. We used duct tape and chewing gum, AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY. Damned young whipper snappers, always wanting comfort.

Re:When *I* was your age

[Richard Whittaker]

Your computer had a hard drive when you were 12? Your not old... ;)

A Russian Tradition?

[rbanzai]

"As Foale boarded the Soyuz, an official kicked him in the back: a Russian launch tradition"

I doubt that this is a Russian tradition. It's what my last boss did when he showed me my cube.

Re:strange imagery

[nizo]

Pretty good description of where our priorities (especially spending) are isn't it? Personally I would like to see more astronauts and fewer plumes of smoke.

Humans Need Confort

[Space_Soldier]

That is his opinion and he is entitled to it. However, humans like comfort, and humans bitch when comfort does not exist, especially on long trips. In addition, there are cultural differences between Russians and Americans as he pointed out. What might seem comfortable for the Russians might not be comfortable for the Americans, just like he pointed out the folk song. Some people can handle comfortless trips, while others cannot. Those who cannot must be mentally trained to do so. No one wants an astronaut to have some sort of breakdown because his toiled sucked his anus too fast, or that he cannot eat anything else but food from the toothpaste containers. Speaking in terms of weight, not having a toilet or a kitchen will not significantly increase the maneuverability of the International Space Station or a future spaceship. It will not make it lean and mean. The only thing that will do is new propulsion systems. -------------

Re:Humans Need Confort

[Paulrothrock]

That is his opinion and he is entitled to it. However, humans like comfort, and humans bitch when comfort does not exist, especially on long trips.

What history class did you sit through? It took about 60 days for the pilgrims to get to America. Imagine 102 people on a 90 foot boat with no shower facilities, rampant seasickness, scurvy and dysentery, and the only toilet facilities being the open sea. And when they get to where they're going, they have to start by building their friggin' houses so they don't freeze to death.

Now imagine walking 2,000 miles across harsh wilderness populated by people who will kill you as soon as trade with you, knowing that 10% of your party will die along the way. Surely nobody will want to go, right?

As for food, any long-term space trip will involve growing food, particularly a Mars mission. You *do* know that we grow food out of the dirt. It doesn't just appear on supermarket shelves. People will have to learn how to grow their food or they will *die.*

Also, any human presence in space will require that all people have a working knowledge of almost every system as well as how to make tools from local materials.

So, yeah, people now are lazy pigs who want to sit around all day and complain. But I, and I'm sure many other people, are willing to go and face the hardships. Some want to get away from people, others want religious freedom.

Sidenote: I don't think Al Qaeda would be trying to kill people if they had a way to move away from the influences they dislike.

Re:Except he is British

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on his philosophy of efficiency rather than comfort, I thought he was Klingon.

Re:unsure

[Ayaress]

I read Deke Slaton's book about the Apollo missions, and the way they described the bathroom situation on the early missions was downright scary. Basically, you have a tube that you clamp on your dong, and a plastic baggie that you flypaper to your ass. And you don't even want to know what they had to do to disinfect the bags. For a good six weeks after reading Moon Shot, I couldn't put my sandwitches in plastic bags.

Re:unsure

[ImaLamer]

Actually, doesn't sound too bad.

Can I get one for my computer chair?

Re:a very intresting article!

[mistersooreams]

You don't read the SpamAssassin changelogs? What are you doing on Slashdot?!

Re:Except he is British

[borroff]

So was Benjamin Franklin, and look how that turned out...

Mental health

[Scrameustache]

NASA planners "correctly worry a lot about loneliness."
[...] the prospect of a Christmas feast for two was depressing until the two astronauts found a solution: Invite some guests. The memorable feast was captured in a photograph showing the two men with their guests, two empty spacesuits carefully propped in dining position.

Yeah, they were a few weeks away from dressing up as their mothers.
Maybe they need a few more people up there.