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Astronaut Wants Space Program With No Frills
colonist writes "A veteran astronaut wants less comfort and more exploration for future missions. British-born astrophysicist Michael Foale has clocked up 374 days in space, more than any other American astronaut. Foale said, 'We need lean and mean spaceships with no frills', such as toilets or kitchen. However, he would like better oxygen-producing systems for the space station. Foale also talked about the Russians: they played 'some sort of Russian folk song. I'm not so sure it calmed me a lot.' As Foale boarded the Soyuz, an official kicked him in the back: a Russian launch tradition. From space, Foale saw a large black cloud over the Middle East: smoke from a bombed oil pipeline in Iraq."
Not sure what I think of no toilets :-|
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Sice when did being able to take a dump become a 'frill'?
At least he didn't get a wine bottle smashed on his face or something. I bet they just tell foreigners the kick-in-the-back is customary. "Get a load of this guy, Vladimir!" Da!
Michael Foale is actually British and not American.
e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3298031.stm
Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego
I'm not one for reading articles usually, there are to many things going on in the world to read all about the changelog for SpamAssasin 3.0 or yet another diatribe on free vs. not-so-free vs. user rights vs. privacy... anyways, most of the time it all gets a bit repetitive, but if you are tired of that, read this one, its good, the poster sort of mangled it into a very curt summary but take a look, its worth the time
an official kicked him in the back: a Russian launch tradition
What? Kicking ass is a proud American tradition with a long history. This is just an example of the westernization of Russia.
No toilets? Wouldn't that make for a really shitty space program?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Damn, Easy Jet and the other low cost airlines haven't been around long, and this guy is already talking about low cost space travel, that boy sure has some business potential.
Foale's suggestions for leaving the comfort zone ring true on several levels. We can't really explore space until we're ready to leave the Garden of Eden behind. So far, we're trying to take it with us -- everything must be 100% safe, from the toilets to the astronauts themselves. We're not going to get past the walls of the garden until there's a flaming sword -- until we must either push forward or die.
I don't neccesarily mean that there will have to be some sort of global catastrophe, just that there will be no real exploration until a group of humans blasts off from Earth with no prospects to return. Ideally, they would be volunteers, but I don't think they can be the perfect psychological and physical specimens we're used to sending into space.
Space simply won't be a "real" place until we have a real human presence, and that means the bad as well as the good. Expanding into the new world takes more than just tilling the land and never moving on. To extend the Eden analogy further: Man didn't really start his journey until Cain's jealousy reached its breaking point. I don't think that's a story of one guy who got mad at his brother -- it's an allegory about mankind's darker side, and how it's an integral part of our experience.
To take a more recent example: when the US lost a dozen-plus troops in Somalia, we left with our tail tucked between our legs. Same thing a few years earlier in Beirut, when a few hundred troops were killed. But now, after losing several thousand lives in 9/11, we're able to bear the loss of hundreds in Iraq and Afghanistan... instead of turning tail, we're actually debating the issue.
We won't reach space in any meaningful way until all of humanity is represented -- both good and bad. That's why we're just spinning our wheels at the moment, playing on the outskirts of Eden. It won't be until Cain shows up -- until someone walks out the airlock in despair, someone fights over resources or a mate, or until there's a war over some metal-rich asteroid -- that humans will truly be able to call themselves citizens of space.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
3 1/2' of 3/4 PVC tubing could replace both of them.
That will stop all those people joining the space program just for the free feed, right!
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
We had to travel into orbit, UPHILL BOTH WAYS. We didn't have any of this new-fangled technology. We used duct tape and chewing gum, AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY. Damned young whipper snappers, always wanting comfort.
It's a strange time we live in when astronauts are flying into space and note large plumes of smoke from ongoing wars.
We are one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. Back to you with the weather, Bob!
"As Foale boarded the Soyuz, an official kicked him in the back: a Russian launch tradition"
I doubt that this is a Russian tradition. It's what my last boss did when he showed me my cube.
ass kicks YOU!
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
The US has involved itself in a huge pork project (ISS) that will syphon off most of the money for space in the near future. Talk of Mars is just that, talk. The US is floating a $7 trillion dollar real debt, huge deficits, and (according to the Fed study) a social security future deficit of $50 TRILLION. If you think the govt is going to fund a Mars program or any other new manned program you are deluded.
That is his opinion and he is entitled to it. However, humans like comfort, and humans bitch when comfort does not exist, especially on long trips. In addition, there are cultural differences between Russians and Americans as he pointed out. What might seem comfortable for the Russians might not be comfortable for the Americans, just like he pointed out the folk song. Some people can handle comfortless trips, while others cannot. Those who cannot must be mentally trained to do so. No one wants an astronaut to have some sort of breakdown because his toiled sucked his anus too fast, or that he cannot eat anything else but food from the toothpaste containers. Speaking in terms of weight, not having a toilet or a kitchen will not significantly increase the maneuverability of the International Space Station or a future spaceship. It will not make it lean and mean. The only thing that will do is new propulsion systems. -------------
and the internet, and the entire sports industry, what a waste that is.
in fact lets just do away with all nonessential services.
yeah thats the best idea, lets put 40-50 million people out of work.
"kicked him in the back"
Ah, the nature-loving Russians, simulating the snap of surface tension felt by a raindrop departing its childhood cloud, precipitating away from its teeming comrades, hurtling towards the planet it could before have only stared at in wonder.
--
make install -not war
Well, it's about time to get rid of those fancy space shuttles!
I'd say we attach a big bucket (made of a potato chip) to a hot air ballon, and float the astronauts into space!
They can also eat the bucket when they are going up too. By the time they reach the zero gravity zone they won't need the bucket anyway! Then for reentry they just use the ballon as a parachute!
The ultimate no-frills space travel!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
Nonetheless, the prospect of a Christmas feast for two was depressing until the two astronauts found a solution: Invite some guests. The memorable feast was captured in a photograph showing the two men with their guests, two empty spacesuits carefully propped in dining position.
Lincoln would like some more dehydrated yams, and tell Hitler over there to stop staring at me.
No, the waste is all the money we spend on britney spears and sports players. It's the money we spend on luxury items, it's the money we spend on pointless worship of mythical beings.
Space exploration gives us knowledge. War is unfortunate, but sometimes necessary. I wish we didn't have to spend money on war. But humans are vile creatures when it comes down to it, and so we need to spend money to kill and prevent being killed.
Did he kick back?
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Nothing will further space exploration more than a space elevator.
Even a simple one, little more than a winch that can lower payloads to space and back safely, would bring cheap solar power and a station on the moon within easy reach.
Anyone in the white house listening?
Lose Weight and Feel Great with Isagenix
Foale was the visiting Western astronaut (as opposed to regular Russian cosmonauts)on Mir during the period of time when there was a fairly serious fire, as well as a depressurization (contained to one module) and a collision with a supply rocket. He was very vocal about his criticisms of the joint NASA/Russian space program (largely that it being pushed through for political reasons, to the detriment of the safety of the astonauts and the spaceprogram as a whole). His arguments had some merits, but they did not make him too popular with the administrators.
So obviously this is a guy who knows about the dangers and travails of space exploration, but at the same time it's interesting to contrast how this new opinion conflicts -in some ways- with his earlier statements.
Again with the "how the hell can we fund Mars" argument.
NASA gets around $16 billion a year. With the new plan of scrapping the shuttle and abandoning the ISS, that' frees up about $6 billion. If we have a timescale of say 20 years to get a presence on Mars, that's $120 billion. If you're a member of the church of the $1 trillion mars mission, that's not enough. However, if you use Mars Direct or the NASA Mars reference mission plan, that's plenty of money.
As long as the American people are willing to pay 1 cent on the dollar for NASA as they currently do, the money to get to Mars will be there. It's just a matter of maintaining the political will to do it.
Blaze a trail to the New World
NASA planners "correctly worry a lot about loneliness."
[...] the prospect of a Christmas feast for two was depressing until the two astronauts found a solution: Invite some guests. The memorable feast was captured in a photograph showing the two men with their guests, two empty spacesuits carefully propped in dining position.
Yeah, they were a few weeks away from dressing up as their mothers.
Maybe they need a few more people up there.
You can't take the sky from me...
"I think we are already good enough on ISS, even for a crew of six," Foale said
"The line for the toilet is never that bad," he laughed.
I assume he isn't against toilets in general!
Something I've always wondered but have never heard mentioned either way. Has anyone had sex in space yet? The Russians and US have both been sending up women for awhile. I'm sure someone must have joined the 100 mile(or however high it is) club by now.
I bet it's NASA dirty little secret:)
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
Yes, yes, sure it is a tradition, uhm, we do it ALL the time. Now turn your capitalist *cough* butt here.
I think a Warp Drive might be more useful.
Not for leaving the planet. Even exotic-energy bubbles of collapsing and expaning space won't help with that; they're space-only, like Ion drives.
Or maybe transporters.
The only theoretical mechanism for "transporters" requires a significant infrastructure at both ends.
Just as feasible too.
Not really. We have materials that are theoretically usable for a space elevator. It doesn't break any extant laws of physics.
And it was thought up by engineers, not TV scriptwriters.
... to see the "Celebrity" version of that. Particularly if they REALLY do the airlock part. :)
:-D
"Oh, I'm sorry, Carrottop. You've been voted off the station. The crew has spoken."
Oh... I salivate at the very thought.
-Jellisky
-enjoying morbidly fun thoughts since 1978.
Doing manned missions a ton more expensive than unmanned ones. For purely increasing the (science / $$$) ratio, the most effective thing to do is get rid of astronauts; they're the bigest frill.
[i]Nonetheless, the prospect of a Christmas feast for two was depressing until the two astronauts found a solution: Invite some guests. The memorable feast was captured in a photograph showing the two men with their guests, two empty spacesuits carefully propped in dining position.
"Hey, we wanted company," Foale deadpanned. [/i]
- Some of our unnamed sources also report that on the sound records from the space station they could heard the following:
-Wilson. WILSON! Don't go, Wilson, don't go.
You can't handle the truth.
Don't we have enough Americans that want to be astronauts? Next thing all our spacemen will be from India and mission control will be a call center in Bangalore.
.....Hello, Hello....
CC: Hello, this is Sri. How are you this evening?
SM: Not too good. The oxygen generator has stopped working.
CC:Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I see you have a Acme SpaceOx Mk IV oxygen generator. Let's try a few things. Are you by the unit? I'm going to ask you to turn the power off and back on again? The power switch is the red one in the lower left corner. Can you see it?
SM:I got it.
CC:Now push down on it. The unit should be off now. Is it off?
"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." -- George Patton
How much money could be saved if the trip to Mars was just one-way? How many people would volunteer to "sacrifice" themselves for the sake of exploration? Consider this: the most technically challenging part of a long-duration space mission is how to provide for food, water and air - followed closely by the re-entry systems. If you could cut the food, water and air need in half and eliminate the Earth re-entry system, we might now be talking about an affordable Mars mission.
The moral issues are clear, however. Suicide is a nasty requirement to write up in the mission specs. Nevertheless, an astronaut's chances of dying on one of the current U.S. "man-rated" space vehicles is better than one in fifty due to accidents as measured by actual performance. Make death part of the final equation, and we're talking the ultimate no-frills space ride.
This sig is a test. If this had been an actual sig, you would be reading something quite a bit wittier than this now.
Well, there's huge risk in sending a man to Mars and bringing him back. Mars is hard. It's easily one or more orders of magnitude harder than the Moon. It's much farther away; equipment and supplies have to last much longer. It's got a much bigger gravity well -- you have two major launches to deal with. Mars actually has an environment to deal with, including an atmosphere with sand storms and temperature fluctuations to deal with. Given that it takes so long to get there, you're going to want to do an extended mission -- no landing, spending two or three days and coming right home. Equipment failure would be catastrophic: an Apollo 13 style retreat would be nearly impossible. The logistics would be daunting, probably involving a number of missions simply to stage supplies and equipment.
Failure would be nearly intolerable. Even settting the value of the astronaut's life at zero, you won't be able to tolerate losing your craft, which will be fabulously expensive to build and launch.
Can I suggest a more -- incremental? approach? One that reduces risks, costs and increases near term value returned in technology, military and economic spin-offs?
Why not set as a goal cutting the cost to orbit by an order of magnitude or more? This will do several things. Firstly efforts, even somewhat unsuccessful efforts, will have short term value. Second, it will be possible to try a number of "out of the box" ideas because the financial and human costs of failure on a small technological trial is much lower than in a large, man-rated mission. Finally this approach would lay the groundwork for a faster, cheaper, safer manned Mars mission. We might even get there faster. F
What I am proposing would look like this:
Phase 1: Apollo style effort to reduce launch costs by an order of magnitude or more. Occasional robotic missions continue.
Phase 2: Utilizing lowered costs from Phase 1, step up rate of relatively low cost robotic missions from Mars to meet scientific goals, survey the planet, and learn about systems requirements for long term missions to Mars and on the Martian surface. Culminate in a several ambitious sample return missions that will parallel the challenges of a manned mission.
Phase 3: Using engineering knowledge from phase 2, begin a series of missions to stage equipment and supplies for an extended manned mission.
Phase 4: Establish long term Mars base.
So a manned mission would be part of the roadmap, but no specific planning or resources would be commmitted to this until well into phase 2.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Carbon nanotubes, or a derivitve technology thereof.