Slashdot Mirror
Sun and Kodak Settle Out of Court
prostoalex writes "The patent dispute between Eastman Kodak and Sun Microsystems in regards to three patents that EK claimed Sun was violating with Java, came to an end. Thursday afternoon Associated Press announced the companies settled out of court with terms of the deal unclear yet. Before Eastman Kodak was looking for $1.06 billion in damages."
According to news.com.com, it looks like Kodak is getting $92M out of Sun. Who's next?
-- "A chicken is an egg's way of making another egg."
Should things happen the same way with Microsoft and the hundreds of other "patent-infringers", is now a good time to buy Kodak stock?
How can 3 patents be worth 1.06$ billion dollars? I thought Kodak was in the crapper these days anyway. Would this have been their only means to making any sort of a profit?
Steal This Sig
...crap like this would help companies realize how messed up the patent situation in the US is right now. Unfortunately, it will probably only increase their zeal for patents and patent-related lawsuits, so that while they might lose a confrontation like this from time to time, they'll also be able to win some.
Settlements have no precedential value, so, the question(s) raised by Kodak's original patent prosecution claim remain... .NET operates in much the same way as Java.
:\
I'm sure other languages do as well...
geek. lawyer.
They can't afford to take the risk of a $1b judgement. That's why they settled. And the details of the settlement are probably not available for disclosure because it's in neither Sun nor Kodak's best interest to disclose them.
Gentoo Sucks
Groklaw has the story also:0 0410071
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2
Invent, patent, don't produce, then sue. Sounds better than 100 hr work weeks bringing a project together...
Isn't ironic when you link to an out of court settlement and you have it on a place called iwon.com? I know it doesn't really matter that its a AP piece but come on, you guys have a sick sence of humor.
My UID is prime is yours?
Who else is on the hit list? Microsoft and Sun are out, since MS already apparently has a license for the patents, and Sun just paid them off...
Is Apple next? They have their own Java implementation, don't they? IBM and Ximian/Novell, perhaps, too? IBM's VM could be infringing, and so could Mono's VM... and that's just sticking in Java-ish territory. Who knows what else they can hit with such a broad patent.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
This entire case was setup by ms
Eh? do you know something I don't?
I know we all hate Microsoft, but blaming them for this is just hurting your credibility.
Or do you blame Microsoft when it rains in the weekend too?
According to the Groklaw discussion, the jury trial came from a town where Kodak is one of the two main employers. One can only suspect that this may have swayed the jury.
This is definitely a case for PubPat to tackle. There has got to be significant prior art on these patents.
To anyone thinking of looking, prior art must fulfil the following requirements (IANAL):
Paul.
You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
Time to ask the Public Patent Foundation to see if this patent can be overturned because of prior art and obviousness. Sounds like these patents are really good targets for both problems.
- David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
As part of the settlement, Kodak asked they also agree not to go after the film developing business. It seems Kodak wants to keep Sun out of the Darkroom.
Okay, not really. Just a bad joke.
I would think that prior art for this patent would be relatively easy to find, so I'm wondering what the hell Sun is up to.
.NET, Novell with Mono.
This will probably lend credence to the patent claim, so not only does Sun get Kodak off their backs, they probably also get a few lawsuits nicely directed at some of their competitors.. MS with
'Heres 92 mil, by the way - you may wanna check out THESE particular companies as well.'
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It is absolutely sad to see that a company that develops, implements, and pushes forward a field such as computing, and thefore society, can be sued by a company that created a vaguely similar idea that it abandoned because of their lack of vision.
Cheers... wait, no, no cheers today...
Adolfo
PS. I am guilty of abusing the use of run on sentences.
First off I haven't read the patents so I don't really know, but from everything I've read about this case, apparently these patents cover the idea of "one program asking another program to do something"... Um, So any program that includes a library, and makes calls against that library, as well as any program that makes system/OS/Windowing environment calls illegal... So, that pretty much covers everything.
I've never written a program that didn't at least include some basic system libraries, or language libraries. Every program must by necessity "ask for help" from other programs, whether that be the OS or a library. If this is really what this patent covers, they have successfully patented programming.
One of Sun's key arguments in its 'Solaris and JDS are superior to Linux because...' campaign is that Sun's products are indemnified against IP problems, and we can expect to see a Microsoft patent used against Linux in the near future - in a FUD atttack to drive people towards Solaris as 'The only safe choice in x86 *NIX'.
Microsoft wants all UNIX users corralled up behind a single company so they can then simply drive that company into the ground, instead of having to play 'whack-a-mole' with Linux distributors.
Sun are taking advantage of this by profiting when they can, but they must realise this is a business strategy that is assuming 'eventual defeat' - Sun are clearly not able to cut a path as an independent technology company, and feel that becoming the 'New Apple to Microsoft' - e.g. expect a Microsoft Virtual PC port with a bundled XP/Longhorn Licence to Solaris x86 soon - is the best way to ensure survival in the short to medium term.
Clearly, they have no long-term strategy, unless it is to simply cede their server market to Windows NT and fade quietly into oblivion like SCO.
If the USA doesn't move beyond Windows on the desktop, there are a lot of other countries who will - Software patents as implemented by the US government, are overwhelmingly stupid, and even if every US Linux distributor faces massive taxes, you will have to deal with the fact that Linux is as prevalent, and as easily developed in Europe or India, or Japan, as it is in the US.
Linux is not going out like this, and this whole 'intellectual property lawsuit' business is just making me, as a programmer, computer user and an educated, open minded person, really angry.
If companies like Redhat are making money out of selling something they also give away for free, this is largely a result of the groundswell of dissatisfaction with the crap we have had to pay so much money for up till now -
Make a good product using ethical business practices and provide clear benefits to a supporting community of users, with contracts based on mutual trust, not meaningless stockmarket numbers and the threat of litigation, and people will be interested in buying it, using it and developing it.
When did 'The network is the computer' get replaced by 'The Microsoft(R) Network (c) Microsoft Corporation 2004 is the computer (pat. pending)'?
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
Wow, I can't believe this has happened. Since when is Kodak doing remotely software related?
I don't even considered them the experts in their supposed field (taking pictures), Fuji film pwns their asses big time (for me).
Still less software!
I think patent applicants MUST submit a valid implementation of their "novel ideas" to provide a limit of the scope of just how "ingenious" they are.
Come on, the industry is really making a big fuss out of their own ingeniuity (stupidity more like!)
Let's all move to China and India and let these fuck turds sue each other out of business while we just happily develop and develop!
Hell, even Iraq is better!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
MS already has licenses from Kodak, Sun has acquired non-transferable rights, so IBM is next I guess? Is Kodak stupid enough to do that?
Now what is worse is that a whole bunch of FOSS supporting firms can be pulled to court with this nonsense.
So is Java lost for the US until 2007? (the pattents were filed in 1987 I believe)
You can't handle the truth.
As public companies, won't the settlement have to be disclosed when they submit their financials?
a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
I dunno, $75 billion profit buys a hell of a lot of weather control R&D...
Let's do the math. The claim is for $1bn. They settle for $92m. My guess is that both sides decided that Kodak has less than 10% chance of winning.
so now if I write a program that infringes on these patents using java as the programming language... am I safe because sun has already paid my licensing fees?
...amazing grace how sweet the....
If that's true then Sun has paid the price for us...making the ultimate sacrifice.
don't forget that if SUN actually won the case this would become yet another example of how screwed up the patent system is in the US and then potentially threaten SUN's own revenues from patents it has ownership of.
In the end, It's all bovine dung you know
There seems to be a lot of posts that go something like, "this looks like a good patent for XXXXXX to try to fight." While the work these groups do is noble and all, they can't be expected to challenge more than a handful of patents a year. It's not easy work. Not to mention the lawyers hired by Kodak, Sun, MS, etc... are among the best in the world.
0 184224
s /tech.h tml
m pep.htm
What we need is more of the people right here to step up and do it themselves. How?
Read this:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/157
Or apply here:
http://www.piercelaw.edu/
Or here:
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/cenpro/program
Then take this:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/
The only way to fix the problems is to have the smartest people doing work the way "should" be done. Go work for the USPTO, and refuse to grant patents that aren't novel. Or work for a firm that challenges existing patents. Do something.
If you need incentive, while you're complaining about Programmers and Engineers not being hired, IP is the single fastest growing area of the law, and highest paid. If you pass the Patent Bar, you WILL get a job...a good job.
Sun settled because it believes the majority of its key customers have mission-critical needs and can't tolerate uncertainty at all (the people who buy the sun hardware, software and services).
This is why Kodak could get away with this blatant extortionism.
How could Sun settle? IANAL but it seemed like they would easily win an appeal (in a courthouse anywhere but Rochester).
$92 million isn't a lot to avoid a several-year-long ludicrous court case like the one between SCO and IBM.
Does this kill the chance of an open source java implementation from Sun?
They settled, but I would guess that the settlement terms did not include "hey Sun, you can write open source versions of our IP"...
Use Kodak's Contact Form to let them what you think. I did:
As a software developer, I was dismayed to hear about Kodak's decision to sue Sun based upon some bogus software patients. Most software developers think these kinds of patents are causing great harm to the American software developer. Any new feature (even obvious ideas) added to a piece of code could potentially be infringing on someone's intentionally vague software patient. I just read the 3 patents which Kodak has accused Sun of violating. Honestly, I have no idea just what you are claiming to have invented. Of course, that's probably the point.
In addition, Kodak seeks over $1 billion in damages from Sun. This is obscene. Through Java, Sun has revitalized the software industry. You are causing great harm to a company that has done wonderful things for both developers and consumers alike.
In response, I have decided to avoid Kodak products forever more. No more Kodak 35mm film, photo paper or film processing for me. By the way, my next camera will probably be a Canon digital camera. In short, you've sold your last Kodak product to me ever.
I know that my personal boycott of your products will have no measurable effect on Kodak's bottom line, however you have just annoyed over one million Java developers. We take this stuff seriously. I suggest Kodak visit SlashDot, a news site read 3 million times every day to get a feeling for the damage you have inflicted upon yourselves.
Before Kodak reinvents itself as a Intellectual Property (IP) holding company whose business model is to simply sue everyone in sight, I suggest that you investigate another company that has gone down that road before you. SCO, formerly a well respected Unix vendor, has basically given up Unix development and now focuses on very shaking IP lawsuits against vendors (IBM, RedHat) and users of the Linux operating system. With their software patent action, SCO (stock symbol: scox) has lost the goodwill of software developers worldwide. Their stock price has dropped from about $150/share five years ago and now trading at $3.70/share. In short, SCO is on the verge of collapse.
Be smart, don't be a SCO. Develop great products, not bogus IP lawsuits and you may yet avoid SCO's fate.