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Brazil Successfully Launches Its First Rocket To Space
thatshortkid writes "The Washington Times is reporting on Brazil's first successful space launch. Since it is closer to the equator, the task of getting up to space is easier, meaning much more cargo room over fuel. Hello commercial launch market! With this development, along with China's expanding space program, India making moves to space, and our own homegrown (ok, still growing) private space industry, where does this put NASA? Does it take a load off of them to pursue bigger endeavors, or will NASA slowly decline in relevance?"
It turned out they were just Brazil nuts.
...can anyone tell me how being close to the equator makes it easier to get to space?
Anyway, great for Brazil! Hopefully the US won't look down on them like they did the Chinese.
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Over here in Argentina there have been numerous atempts to do this, having the same advantage as Brazil. Our goverments havent been able to succesfully do anything, so congrats to Brazil!
Brazil has certainly taken over Orkut. NASA is clearly the next logical step.
Letter
Maybe NASA will actually acquire enough technology from private enterprise to actually put a man on the moon!
Talk about a growth market. Poor country, cheap ground for large launch facilities, decent tourist(y) spots along the coast... If they can attract the market, they're in to make some money.
Whose stock do I buy?
Looks like NASA's relevance is going the way of NASA's funding! Ooh. Zing!
...to the list of those on pace to beat the US in sci/tech within 30 or so years.
While it may affect NASA, I doubt it will cripple them. Commercial flights are going to focus on getting people in to space (for large sums of money). NASA will focus on sending large, heavy payloads in to space, like communications satellites. It may actually be beneficial for NASA to partner with, say, Brazil to get the advantages of their location (though transporting all those sensitive things would be a royal PITA), but I don't think the advantage will be so large that they'll do it.
Plus, NASA has a research focus, sending things to Mars or the Moon, which simply isn't commercially interesting right now. Maybe when we discover oil on mars (because, you know, they had dinosaurs) or some benefit that would intrigue the medical research corporations, Mars or the Moon may become interesting, but until then, nobody is going to sponsor all the research NASA does. And since experimentation in a weightless environment wasn't too terribly fascinating for them, I don't think Mars would be either.
So I think NASA will pretty much stay put, but the competition will 1) make them step up their game a bit, and 2) allow them to focus their resources on the things nobody else is currently doing.
The European Space Agency has been taking advantage of an equatorial launch site for 40 years in French Guiana. NASA has managed to remain relevant during those 40 years, so I don't foresee Brazil's recent launch changing that.
I have heard a lot about how you can save on fuel by flying an airplane as high as possible and launching a much smaller rocket from the air into space. If you recall, this is exactly what the Space Ship One team did to win the X Prize. Would anyone happen to know why we don't see more nations investing on this technology? It sounds like a better solution for commercial launches. Why China, India, and Brazil insist on investing on this "land-to-space" type of rockets?
NASAs biggest problem is that it took its eye off the ball and lost direction. I think after they got to the moon they didn't really know what to do next so they just went to the moon a few more times rather than expanding their horizon and maybe trying to push on to Mars. They had something that captured the publics imagination with the HST but have now cocked it up to the point where the average person is just confused.
I admit you have to do some science to justify the expense of space missions but Jo Public only understands pictures and the science leaves him bored. Jo Publics attention span is also only just longer than that of the average goldfish so you have to keep the thrills coming. People will wait maybe a year for something amazing but they won't wait 10 years. NASA has got to remember that the public are funding them so they had better put on a good show.
I used to have a better sig but it broke.
I'd love to see a technology boom in Brazil. What a perfect place to live. Beautiful country. Beautiful weather. Perfect beaches. I'd never choose a position in Brazi over India. Brazil wins hands down. Let's hope technology continues to boom in Brazil! I'd relocate in a second if the opportunity existed. Beleza Pura!
Not commenting about China or India, but see this coverage on BBC. Notice the phrase "Brazil hopes the successful launch will push forward its plans to sell 15 of its VSV-30 rockets to the European Space Agency." Perhaps selling those rockets/renting launch facilities will provide more money to spend on social programs?
Aye carrumba!!! Aye-eee!!!!
No need to mock Brazil with Mexican-ish expressions.
As if everything below Texas were some sort of uniform Hispanic cultural goo. People don't even speak Spanish in Brazil.
As I had commented earlier today in another story, what's more impressive is the rapid recovery from last year's explosion. Funny the Brazilians are fond of conspiracy stories about that. (Quite a few think the CIA had something to do with it - leftover distrust from the era of military rule) This launch was not as ambitious as the craft which was destroyed, but at least Brazil didn't stay paralyzed after the tragedy. Hopefully they can keep up the momentum - without attracting too much attention. Certain parties might view the recent nuclear developments (new enrichment technology) in association with the rocket program and start thinking Brasil is developing ICBM's
:P
Off topic aside - I had thought about posting this story but I had submitted one about Operacao Cavalo de Troia II - 53 phish scammers busted for over 30M in bank fraud -19 of them in the interior city where I work, I had some relatively inside information on the bust. But no I'm not bitter
Watashi wa chikyubutsurigakusha desu.
The US calls these sounding rockets.
Hopefully Brazil will get its satellite launch program back up and running. It was severely damaged when one of the solid rocket motors ignited in a rocket being set up on the pad for launch, which destroyed the pad and killed the technicians working to set it up.
no it wouldn't.
besides.. this is a social program of sorts.. it's meant to generate money AND jobs.. a stable source of income - THAT'S what helps people.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Why are millions and millions of dollars being poured into space programs when Brazil, China and India are all considered Third World Countries. (China may be on the fence.) Wouldn't this money be better spent on social programs?
Perhaps because this will also create native technology and bring more jobs (directly and indirectly)?
I do not think that merely producing tons of sugar and coffee each year will be enough to improve the conditions in any country.
Brazilians speaks portuguese, not spanish.
The summary is pretty bizarre. Brazil's launch is to a viable commercial launch system what the Wright Flier is to a 747. It was quite an accomplishment (coming after the previous accidents) but hardly anything more than a promising start along a 15-20 year road, with optimism. RTFA.
Additionally, the development of more commercial launch capability is essentially absurd - given that there is a huge overcapacity in commercial launch capability.
Moreover, NASA has had very little or nothing to do with commercial launch for many, many years. Private companies have been doing this essentially on their own for a long time. They use the same launchers and use Cape facilities. But NASA pays just like everybody else, when they use expendable vehicles. So the relevance of even more commercial launch capability would have no effect in any way on NASA - even assuming that this was what the Brazilians were doing - which they are not.
As far a "looking down on the Chinese" - well, given that they have had exactly one manned launch with capabilities similar to a Gemini flight from 40 years ago, (and an incredible string of accidents including dropping fully-fueled boosters into innocent villlages, destroying them almost completely, and then doing theor utmot to cover it up, and crashing a film return capsule into someone's house just last week) I thought that NASA's reaction was quite charitable. Given the problems in trying to run an international program with the highly-experienced Russians, and the apalling technology-transfer implications, it's hard to see how it would be a wise idea to jump on the Chinese bandwagon with the ISS or other international cooperation projects.
Other than that, excellent summary of the original article.
Yes, I find that to be a trend, somewhat reverse of what you'd think should be done. The government can't come up with the funds to provide the social programs, so they make some big money in some business venture to fund the social programs. It'll be interesting in the next 5-10 years to see how some of these countries are doing with this tactic...
-m
http://www.invisik.com
I think we need a very strong Earth orbit governance body with the US and Russia as permanent members (were we were the first up there).
Why not make all countries of the world permanent members, instead of Russia and the USA solely?
Score: i, Imaginary
"The only role that government should play is in funding pure-science projects." I guess you don't work at a NASA center. There's significant pressure on NASA researchers to bring in outside customers to cover their salaries and costs of running facilities, which implies not doing pure-science research. There's some interesting dynamics playing out: government researchers trying to get funding from the private sector while the private sector tries to get funding from the government.
In fact Werner von Braun took some interest in the Indian space programme, in the 60s.
India's first satellite was launched 30 years ago, called Aryabhata-I named after the 6th century Indian mathematician, Aryabhata.
Also, the launching station at Thumba is right on the Magnetic Equator. A story covering this can be seen here. Also,
A map of the world's space centers is available.
Português é minha língua nativa, "aye carrumbe" não quer dizer nada em português, nem de Portugal e nem do Brasil.
NASA has a bunch of different responsibilities:
basic scientific research
commercial launches/coordination
military launches
big space projects
The way I see it, the basic scientific research area of NASA will eventually be handled if not by the NSF, by something very much like it. The various NASA research centers are pretty much like the national labs already.
The commercial launches may one day be handled by private enterprise, but there will always be regulation which goes along with them. This area could more easily be handled in the future by something like the FAA.
The military launches really should be handled by the military.
That leaves the big space projects. This really can't be taken away. There has to be someone out there who will coordinate the truly crazy space projects. Who exept NASA (working with other government space agencies: ESA, etc) will build gigantic orbiting particle accellerators? Helping to coordinate multinational projects is really going to be the role of NASA and other governmental space agencies in the future.
Right now, one of the biggest impediments to big science projects (ITER comes to mind) is getting all the parties involved simply to agree on what they are doing.
In 1971 a joint civilian-military committee, the Brazilian Commission for Space Activities (Comissão Brasileira de Atividades Espaciais--Cobae), was established and placed under the CSN (National Security Council). Cobae was chaired by the head of the Armed Forces General Staff (Estado-Maior das Forças Armadas--EMFA) and was in charge of the Complete Brazilian Space Mission (Missão Espacial Completa Brasileira--MECB). The MECB, created in 1981, was an ambitious US$1 billion program with the aim of attaining self-sufficiency in space technology.
The potential military applications of Brazil's MECB center around the Sonda IV and its VLS, which could be used for a ballistic missile. Sonda IV has a range of 600 kilometers and can carry a 500-kilogram payload, and is therefore subject to MTCR restrictions. The transformation of the Sonda IV into an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) would require several more successful launches and a major technological leap, especially in payload shielding and guidance.
The government of Brazil has stated that it supports the peaceful applications of space technology and denies any intention of developing a ballistic missile.
Link
Google "brazil icbm"
-kgj
-kgj
Most likely the latter. Consider the logistical difficulties not merely with the space hardware itself, but with the fuel for the vessel, trans-shipping (for example) the Space Shuttle back from one of the continental landing strips, the accommodations for the large ground control and maintenance crews, the food and supplies for the personnel, etc. Florida is just easier to get all the stuff to.
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
I am glad this finally happened. I am Brazilian and I know that our country can (and it does) produce great brilliant minds and top scientists. Even NASA has numerous Brazilian scientists.
The problem have always relied on the government support. Brazilian Govt. is very very corrupt, and most of the money that should be spent on science and technology ends in Switzerland, at some ilegal bank accounts from our beloved politicians.
That accident that ocurred a while ago is a proof. The crew involved with the project have donnated money from their own pockets to buy equipment and pieces of the VLS (Satellite Launcher Vehicle) that exploded.
I sincerely hope that this achievement will be the first of many others.
Congratulations to all Brazilian scientists that have been involved with this project.
Brazil is one of the world's largest arms exporters to the Third World. Its first three space rockets, the Sonda I, II, and III, were all developed into surface-to-surface missiles that Iraq, Libya, and Saudi Arabia purchased right off the production line.
Link
-kgj
If only Brazil could manage to use all this ingenuity and excellence to find a way for their police death squads, and professional hired killers to stop murdering and torturing their street children (aged between 5 to 18 years). Considering that there are estimated between 7 to 17 million children living on their streets, one would think that they would look at the ground occasionally whilst they reach for the stars.
"More than 18% of Brazil's population is illiterate, and 35% of children between ages 7 and 15 are not enrolled in school. In addition, with the exception of Haiti and Guatemala, malnutrition is more prevalent in Brazil than in any other Latin American or Caribbean nation (UNICEF, 1996b). According to official government statistics, 1,000 children die from hunger and malnutrition each day in Brazil. Moreover, Brazil's infant mortality rate in 1993 was 52 per 1,000 live births, one of the highest in Latin America and exceeded only by Peru (88) and Bolivia (98). In the poorest regions of the country and in impoverished areas near industrial centers, 10% of the children are expected to die before they reach 5 years of age (Martins, 1993)." Link here
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for space travel, and I don't agree that the "solve our Earth problems" first applies to first world countries, but surely a third world country like Brazil could at the very least reform their murder state before embarking on a space program.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
With the exception of the Shuttle and some sounding rockets, the launch vehicle market has been privatized for years. If you want a Delta or Atlas launch, you negotiate a contract with Boeing or Lockheed-Martin, not NASA.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
He's already pretty much recouped the money from that already via the Ansari prize and Richard "I can make money off that" Branson's interest, so expect Burt Rutan, designer extraordinaire to take the cash flow from that and the follow-up projects (space mini-buses) and make maybe a fibreglass kit build-in-your-garage Shuttle replacement or a LEO commuter plane that flings out a space-bus/space-truck at apogee while amortising the cost with Dallas-to-Europe or New-York-to-Australia passengers on the launch vehicle.
Speaking of Branson, the whole SpaceShipOne experimental program so far has cost less than one single regular passenger jet. I'm expecting Richard to notice that and wonder if Burt can turn his hand to larger aircraft, and sponsor him to do so. It wouldn't shock me to see Burt slash the cost of an airliner and make it intrinsically safer, more economical and more visually interesting all in one hit. I'd expect him to start with a cargo plane and work out, but I think there's room for an immense amount of cross-pollination between his air-breathers and what he's learned from his space work.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
As you said, NASA's focus should be on research. Sending a load to orbit is a trucking job best left to private companies. Each time NASA launches a commercial or military satellite (that is, not a science mission), they waste money twice:
A NASA focusing on science would allow a private launch industry to take off (literally) and decrease the cost of access to orbit per kilogram. Which in turn would make science missions cheaper. Everyone wins.
So why doesn't NASA just do this? Because they inherited an army of 20.000 engineers from the Appolo program, and like in every bureaucracy, feeding the troops and sustaining the status quo takes precedence over the Good of Mankind. It's only human to want to keep one's job. Meanwhile, the space program is dead.
--
Mad science! Robots! Underwear! Cute girls! Full comic online! http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
Actually most space programs in India have very important developmental goals- The 40 year old Indian space effort is dedicated at improving telecommunications, weather reporting, education and the like. Weather reporting alone probably has resulted in saving millions of lives in India and its neighbouring countries (India gives satellite data to them free of cost).
resurrect my
This may be an excellent _first step_ for Brazil, but both India and China have well established space programs already.
Better translation:
São Luis, Brasil, 24 de Outubro (UPI) -- O Brasil lançou seu primeiro foguete para o espaço, uma façanha apenas 14 meses depois que o programa espacial foi devastado por um acidente fatal na plataforma de lançamento.
O VSV-30, também conhecido como o Veículo de Exploração Brasileiro, decolou sábado da base de Alcântara no estado do Maranhão e ficou apenas sete minutos em microgravidade, de acordo com o Ministro de Ciência e Tecnologia brasileiro.
Oficiais brasileiros esperam que o vôo de teste com sucesso do foguete vá ajudar o programa espacial nacional a se recuperar do acidente no ano passado quando vários dos maiores cientistas e membros da equipe do programa espacial foram mortos quando um foguete explodiu na base de Alcântara durante a decolagem.
Também ajudaria o Brasil a promover a base de Alcântara como uma via ideal para futuras missões internacionais, já que a proximidade da linha do equador -- dentro de alguns graus -- facilita lançamentos ao espaço.
A Terra se move mais rápido ao longo da linha do equador. Portanto, os veículos precisam de menos impulso para chegar no espaço, o que os permite carregar mais equipamento ao invés de combustível adicional.
Hey, they're a bigger threat than Iraq was before the invasion and it's not as far to drive. Plus the scenery is better. We should've invaded those pesky Canadians first, they could deliver WMD's into the states in their sneaky submarine. Then go after Brazil second. Secure this part of the world before we start dorking around on the other side of the planet.
Why not? We can invent an imminent threat from any country we want, why settle for the dirty, crapass countries half-way around the world? The facts have no bearing on this administration, so let's invade the countries with the best looking women first.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
It really pisses me off when people from America which is the most protectionist of all the nations in the world talk of free trade.
Any production has two inputs capital and labour and one output goods. Now Americans want free movement of capital and goods but not of labour. Thats just hypocritical. I would say if you want free trade remove all visa requirements. If you want your companies to be able to go and invest in any country and sell goods from any country than people from any country should be able to come and sell their services in your country. If you cant handle that then shut the fuck up about free trade
**Life is too short to be serious**
Since NASA is getting a budget increase this year...
...do you mean NASA's relevance is actually increasing?
-- No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats, approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
I have little to say, but even less to lose by saying it.
A not so well known company actually makes a floating platform that can launch rockets. It's heavily funded by Boeing, and advertises equatorial launches:
a ce_enterprise.shtml
http://www.sea-launch.com/
Another interesting note is that there are a lot of complaints on the net about how the US government, according to some at the behest of NASA to keep the shuttle viable, has stiffled commercial launches. Here is an interesting site discussing the affect of the laws:
http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/barriers_to_sp
Ed Barbar, President and General Manager, Furnit USA
The cliche you are looking for is that the Sun never sets on the British empire, and that wasn't so much a reference to its lasting forever but to its spanning the globe, ie the Sun was always shining on part of the Empire; there was a posession in every time zone. I assume you are talking about Queen Victoria but the phrase is not particularly associated with her.
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.