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New Security Bill Proposed
frdmfghtr writes "ZDnet is reporting on a new security bill coming up right before the election in November that is geared towards increasing security in the U.S. "One section anticipates storing the "lifetime travel history of each foreign national or United States citizen" into a database for the convenience of government officials." Senator McCain and HLS secretary Tom Ridge are mentioned specifically in the article: "McCain envisions erecting physical checkpoints, dubbed "screening points," near subways, airports, bus stations, train stations, federal buildings, telephone companies, Internet hubs and any other "critical infrastructure" facility deemed vulnerable to terrorist attacks. Secretary Tom Ridge would appear to be authorized to issue new federal IDs--with biometric identifiers--that Americans could be required to show at checkpoints." Reminds me not-so-vaguely of checkpoints in Soviet Russia where you needed papers to pass."
reminds me of some non-essential plot elements of a certain twilight zone episode. http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServ let/showid-237/epid-12598/
When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
Time is of the essence on this one, as those campaigning in tight races need something to prop up their electoral base. Somehow I find it refreshing or disturbing that for the past few weeks I've had to call in to Washington three times for poor legislation. So here's the the deal.
The bill is S. 2845, and the portion of debate here is (Information Sharing) Sec. 206, among others. Find your Senators here. Then I want you to e-mail, call, whatever. I, personally, like to call and be firm but nonetheless polite. Don't contact Sen. McCain's office unless you're from Arizona: there is no, no, no, no national politic. None. Your message will be either be forwarded to your state Senators' offices or discarded, and I don't want some aide doing tallies to think that everybody who contacted them was from every state but the one with their voters.
E-mail will also work, and hell, if you have all of ten minutes and $2, consider writing a very basic letter and overnighting it USPS. Remember: you don't have to convince them, all you need to let them know is that you are opposed to it. Paper talks.
Don't say I didn't say all of this - right here three years ago.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Hmmm... "McCain envisions erecting physical checkpoints, dubbed "screening points," near subways, [...] Internet hubs "
Internet hubs? Man, that's going to suck. "The networked printer needs paper, dear, I'm heading down to the basement" 'Badge, sir?'
More seriously, even when I drive into D.C. and pass in spitting distance of the Capital, the occassional roadblock/checkpoints don't ask for ID. They rely on an officer doing a quick visual survey of the vehicle and occupants.
I don't see how IDs will help. 'Hmm... according to your ID, you're a known terrorist criminal. I'll have to search your car.' No, far more likely a potential terrorist will either be a clean slate (new recruit) or have a faked ID.
So the only use is either to hassle ordinary citizens while pretending it's helping fight terrorism, without really increasing safety or security. I predict the bill will pass by a landslide.
For the children's sake, of course.
A.
Of course we all know that it is only a pre-election PR stunt which will most probably get forgotten by most of people few months after the election, however it will continue silently violating privacy and after reading this article I must say that it sounds frightening. It is frightening because it goes much further than necessary, mostly affecting honest people. When new supposedly anti-terrorist security measures such as this one are introduced, Bruce Schneier always asks a great question: "would it have stopped 9/11 if we'd had it in place then?" Good question.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
Maybe '1984' was just a deadline that slipped a little...
"Money is a sign of poverty." - Iain Banks
I wish you could mod bills -1, Flamebait.
They used the phrase "in Soviet Russia" in the writeup.
That means you don't need to mention it here in the comments section.
[insert witty sig here]
It looks like you're building a fascist police state. Do you want me to...
The challenge when bills like this are proposed it to come to where the proponents are, rather than setting up a civil liberties versus safety showdown. To oppose this, we need to frame the argument in ways that relate to the safety concerns that are driving the bill-- otherwise, people will always pick safety over some seemingly paranoid and vague worry about big brother. The case needs to be made that this restricts freedom, which is the goal of the terrorists, and that it will not increase safety, which probably could be easily demonstrated by analyzing previous attacks and whether or not this type of checkpoint would be able to head them off.
- - - - - -
The Regular - slashdot for politics (news for wonks)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Not to be the voice of reason around here, but the only thing on that list where they legally can not demand ID is the subway ( yet ). So many people alow themselves to be tracked anyways because of subway passes and credit cards. There have been rulings on almost every other location saying that the police can demand ID on planes, trins, busses, federal installations, and other sensitive areas. This does take it to a new level and I think the courts will have to decide is the 4th amendment applies when dealing with national security.
Despite my optimism I could see something like this going either way when it comes to the courts. I could see them saying that no seasure could take place unlesss there was suspision of wrongdoing, or I could see them saying this is a very limited seasure because it's already within police ability to stop and question people and check ID's at most of these locations.
Up till not the courts have been split on issues like this, the most recent being that you can't require protesters who have done nothing wrong to be scanned by a metal detrctors.
McCain envisions erecting physical checkpoints, dubbed "screening points," near subways, ... and any other "critical infrastructure" facility deemed vulnerable to terrorist attacks.
I know they have good sandwiches, but are they really a target for terrorist activity? I just can't see Osama Bin Laden blowing up my local Subway with a 747.
everyday is another shooter.
I for one welcome our new Department of Homeland Security overlords.
I'd throw in a "In Soviet Union" joke as well, but I have to go and dig a hole in my garden to hide in when the guys in jackboots come for me...
People couldn't type. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this.
This is the kind of thing tha keeps pushing me toward libertarian... /In Soviet Russia, (fill in yourself) //Family Guy
I didn't need those civil rights anyhow... Im sure the politicians, which are mostly nice people anyhow, except for those dirty (other party) who eat babies, wont do anything wrong with that info.
(/sarcasm)
Support more choices in goverment-Vote 3rd party.
Dear Americans,
we have always seen your nation and its many achievements with the highest respect. After the dreadful 9/11 attacks, we have responded with tremendous loyalty and friendship, and we were sure that one of the planet's oldest democracies would react wisely and adequately.
However, after three years, we have come to the conclusion that your government is curtailing your rights and stealing your money. While this is a domestic issue and not of our business, your government's international behaviour is a wholly different story. International treaties have been breached. Old friends have been alienated. Fear has been spreaded. In general, we think your current administration has made the world more dangerous.
After the breach of international law, we do not have much trust left in your country. So, dear Americans, if you wish to participate again in the international family of peoples, feel free to join us! Just get rid of that jackasses.
Should you choose to keep your current government however, we, The World, would feel obligated to intervene. Like it should have be done after Munich 1938, your government will then be forced from power by an international coalition of the willing, to prevent further damage.
You see, you're either with us or against us!
Yours sincerely,
The World
a marked down sale on used Minority Report DVDs. Next thing you'll see is some bill proposing funding for a project to develop precognitive abilities in drug babies.
Wow, sorry to hear this news. Watching from Canada, it's sad, scary and funny. Nice how the USSA and former USSR have the same lack of privacy with total different governemt structures. And how democracy doesn't help... or we will find that out after the presidential election I guess. I vote that Canada joins the EU!!
Ever notice how many of these bills get put together in the Senate, versus the House? There's a reason why the people didn't popularly elect the Senate in the original constitution: the state legislature is better able to control a state's senators than its own people.
What we need is to abolish the popular election of the Senate and let the state legislatures remove their senators whenever they feel they aren't doing a good job. Most of the millionaire/billionaire assholes that have been in the Senate in the past 30-50 years would probably never have gotten there if the states had control and could remove that at will for sponsoring bad legislation.
Let's face it, the number of voters informed enough to know the parallels between the Soviet Union and Tom Ridge's proposals are few enough that they couldn't vote these guys out.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Basically, complacency. If a terrorist really wanted to accomplish some task (and let's assume he/she doesn't mind getting killed in the process), this travel database is good only for post-mortem analysis. Why? Simple, the terrorist just starts taking "regular trips" to establish a history. Once people are comfortable or consider such trips normal, the terrorist can move with near impunity. Heck, the 9/11 guys conducted test runs!
This is simple social engineering. In my job, I service customer accounts. During my first few visits, I may get asked who I am by several people wondering if I'm where I should be. After a while, even the most security-conscious place treats my coming and going as a normal routine requiring no scrutiny. After that, I'm free to walk through almost the entire plant without question. If I wanted to, I could steal a lot of information or cause damage.
The same applies to the travel database. If the 9/11 guys were willing to plan for years to pull off the attack, what makes anyone think they wouldn't take the time to "establish" themselves as "normal" travelers. This database, like CAPPS, won't do anything but let the government obtain information about its own citizens.
-- Fugacity: Confusing chemists since 1908
I'm usually not the one to worry about the erosion of civil liberties, being somewhere to the right of Newt Gingrich, but the idea of monitoring foreign visitors is just plain stupid. My reasons may not fit with the way a typical knee-jerk slashdotter would think about it, but in no particular order, here they are.
First, there's the manpower problem. Who does the monitoring?
Second, how do you know who to monitor, or does everyone get checked around important places? From a practical point of view, that places undue burden on society. After all, these are supposedly the most important places, and will usually be very busy already.
Finally, you can't monitor everyplace. What if someone starts buying tankfuls of diesel fuel and dumping them in major rivers? Or, a simple underwater mine could distrupt shipping on the Mississippi River. A concerted attack at all of the locks would be very effective, and the attacker could just drive away from most of them.
What about the miles and miles of unprotected railways in the U.S.? Most of the time, the geniuses in charge of railroad routing put all the tank cars in a train together. Since they're all going to the same place, usually, this is an obvious thing to do. The trouble is, you have tank cars full of sulphur trioxide (or even sulfuric acid) and hydrochloric acid right next to tank cars full of anhydrous ammonia. Ever mix a liter of HCl with a liter of ammonia and take a whiff? (No, because you're still alive.) A relatively small charge can derail a train; well-placed bomb would be disastrous.
Since it's impossible to defend against specific acts of terror, the only sensible alternative is to find and preemptively attack the organizations that sponsor and use terrorist tactics.
sigs, as if you care.
Except a quick check of the calendar at http://www.congress.gov/ shows that congress is not in session right now. The House has nothing on the schedule this week, and the Senate is not scheduled to convene until mid-November. Sigh. Can't journalists use the web yet?
If the rest of the world made a united attempt to reduce america it would happen. Not that it is ever likely to happen.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Following the link in the story takes me to the parent page of the gigantic bill written to implement the recommendations of the 9/11 commission. There are dozens of amendments, and some comments above pointing me to 1017 and 3081, but I'm having trouble following the maze of links.
Could someone link to the controversial portion please?
and this is what you get.
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just enter your ZIP code
"What we need is to abolish the popular election of the Senate and let the state legislatures remove their senators whenever they feel they aren't doing a good job."
[btw, there are good reasons the Constitution was changed to popular election of Senators.]
I trust the popular vote more than I trust the kind of dorks who get elected to state office.
Also, your proposal creates a conflict of interest for ambitious state legislators.
If we're going to remove Senators, let it be by popular vote.
I've long been in favor of allowing recall petitions in ALL states, for ALL state offices.
Why don't they concentrate on safeguarding dangerous materials?
The plane that crashed in Lockerbie, Scotland (killing 270) was brought down with 400 grams of Semtex, an RDX-based compound.
Why don't we just put term limits on Senators? Say 2 terms(12 years)? I mean really, 12 years in the Senate is plenty of time. Why should these guys be allowed to serve longer than the President? Of course this will never happen because the career politicians would never vote to limit their careers.
This would get rid of career politicians like Ted Kennedy, Orrin Hatch, Robert Byrd, the late Strom Thurmond, and needless to say John Kerry. It would get us back to what the Framers intended - to serve for a few years and then go back to your normal job and life.
Make these guys go back to what they normally do like driving drunk in the Chappaquiddick Bay, remotely blowing up computers, or vehemently maligning Vietnam Veterans and accusing them of war crimes while at the same time claiming to be a war hero. Make these guys actually try to run a business or have a real job.
What good does it do we, the people, to have these kinds of people representing us for 30 or 40 years?
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
E-mail will also work, and hell, if you have all of ten minutes and $2, consider writing a very basic letter and overnighting it USPS. Remember: you don't have to convince them, all you need to let them know is that you are opposed to it. Paper talks.
Ok, thanks! I have to tell you though, I'm not opposed to it and I plan to write. From the article summary:
McCain envisions erecting physical checkpoints, dubbed "screening points," near subways, airports, bus stations, train stations, federal buildings, telephone companies, Internet hubs and any other "critical infrastructure" facility deemed vulnerable to terrorist attacks.
I ride 2 trains from New Jersey and 3 subways in NYC everyday both to and from work. I can tell you the security is piss poor, and some type of screening system would be nice. While I'm sure this makes many of you think of 1984, I think it would be nice if the trains were at least screened at least as well as the planes are. While I'm sure many of you will gripe about your rights, or that bush is hitler....no where in the constitution does it say you can get on public transportation without some type of security check. While I'm sure many of you think that falls under a "unreasonable search" I don't think it's unreasonable to require a background check/screening to get on a plane or train.
http://thomas.loc.gov/r108/r108.html click senate, on sept 30th. Choose text of amendments. Look for pages s10154-s10155
Here are some interesting excerpts:
SEC. __01. AMENDMENTS TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY ACT RELATING TO IDENTIFICATION OF INDIVIDUALS.
(a) ANTIFRAUD MEASURES FOR SOCIAL SECURITY CARDS.--Section 205(c)(2)(G) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 405(c)(2)(G)) is amended--
(1) by inserting ``(i)'' after ``(G)'';
(2) by striking ``banknote paper'' and inserting ``durable plastic or similar material''; and
(3) by adding at the end the following new clauses:
``(ii) Each Social security card issued under this subparagraph shall include an encrypted electronic identification strip which
shall be unique to the individual to whom the card is issued and such biometric information as is determined by the Commissioner and
the Secretary of Homeland Security to be necessary for identifying the person to whom to the card is issued. The Commissioner shall
develop such electronic identification strip in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, so as to enable employers to
use such strip in accordance with section __03(b) of the National Intelligence Reform Act of 2004 to obtain access to the Employment
Eligibility Database established by such Secretary pursuant to section __02 of such Act with respect to the individual to whom the card
is issued.
SEC. __02. EMPLOYMENT ELIGIBILITY DATABASE.
(a) IN GENERAL.--The Secretary of Homeland Security (hereinafter in this title referred to as ``the Secretary'') shall establish
and maintain an Employment Eligibility Database. The Database shall include data comprised of the citizenship status of individuals
and the work and residency eligibility information (including expiration dates) with respect to individuals who are not citizens or
nationals of the United States but are authorized to work in the United States. Such data shall include all such data maintained by
the Department of Homeland Security as of the date of the establishment of such database and information obtained from the Commissioner
of Social Security pursuant to section 205(c)(2)(I) of the Social Security Act. The Secretary shall maintain ongoing consultations with
the Commissioner to ensure efficient and effective operation of the Database.
(1) IN GENERAL.--No employer may employ an individual in the United States in any capacity if, as soon as practical after such
individual has been hired, such individual has not been verified by the employer to have a social security card issued to such individual
pursuant to section 205(c)(2)(G) of the Social Security Act and to be authorized to work in the United States in such capacity. Such
verification shall be made in accordance with procedures prescribed by the Secretary for the purposes of ensuring against fraudulent use
of the card and accurate and prompt verification of the authorization of such individual to work in the United States in such capacity.
(c) CRIMINAL PENALTY.--Any person who--
(1) continues to employ an individual in the United States in any capacity who such person knows not to be authorized to work in
the United States in such capacity, or
(2) hires for employment any individual in the United States and fails to comply with the procedures prescribed by the Secretary
pursuant to section __03(b) in connection with the hiring of such individual,
[Page: S10156] GPO's PDF
shall upon conviction be fined in accordance with title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both
SEC. __07. USE OF CARD; RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
Nothing in this title or the amendments made by this title shall be construed to establish a national identification card, and it
is the policy of the United States that the social security card shall not be used as a national identification
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how is this a troll?
It's merely expanding on other posts about writing to Congress.
They could do so much better and without the checkpoints. All they need are a tracking chip in your passport and/or national ID card and readers embedded in entrances to transportation systems. They could make it very attractive and sell it as a "freedom pass" so you could bypass customs, immigrations, and airport security. Yeah, if they put a positive spin on it, they could get 90% of the population to approve, then the other 10% would look like we've got something to hide and get the punishment we deserve simply for standing in the shameful, body check line, all because we didn't bother to buy a "freedom pass"
If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
There is nothing much more than I can say than that this is so stupid.
We've heard from conspiracy "nuts" back in the 80s and 90s warning us about this kind of thing, and what will happen. Big Brother is getting too much power.
I seriously hope this doesn't pass.
We here are slashdot are very sensitive about the right to privacy, but it seems that many others in the country are not. They don't seem to see the problem with these bills, thinking "it will make me safer" and "I'm not doing anything wrong, so what do I have to hide". Typically when people do try to argue for it they invoke scary images of 1984 and evil shadowing totalitarian government, and the general public tends to respond to this by brushing them off as a bunch of conspiracy theorist loons. I must admit that of all my political beliefs the right to privacy is the one that I am weakest at arguing, which tends to mean that I don't rigorously understand it myself.
So my question to you all out there is this - What good writings do you know of that explain clearly why privacy is fundamentally important to free society? What ways of explaining the issue have you found the general public to be receptive to? I ask this not only to learn to be more persuasive, but to deepen (and perhaps challenge) by own views on the subject.
they were constantly being attacked by rebels, or the CIA. now that we are at war, why not do what they did. look how good things worked out.
"Subways"? Are they nuts? Have they ever seen a horde of hectic New Yorkers hustling to make their trains during rush hour? They can't even stop turnstile jumpers, and they're going to stop terrorists? Just blowing up a subway entrance, outside the checkpoint, in Times Square will do their dirty work. This is yet another stab at police state and its corporate welfare.
--
make install -not war
True, but something more important happens in just 1 week: an election. ALL the representatives, and 1/3rd of the senators are up for election. If they see a response now, they know it is an issue. Make sure you mention that you are basing your vote on how they vote on this - that will get attention. Then vote both this election based on their promise. If they break the promise (or take the wrong side and get elected anyway), vote against them next time around.
There is one thing congressmen fear more than anything else: voters with a long memory. So give yourself a long memory and use it.
Recommended reading: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/PDF/Commonwealth. pdf and http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/08/far04029.ht ml
/ story/0,14259,1204684,00.html
There is a common reason behind the recent major changes in US foreign policy and internal politics, and none of the comments so far have pointed it out.
We are becoming a police state and finding (or even creating) excuses to project military power in the Middle East in preparation for, basically, Doomsday.
So much of our economy is dependent on oil production, not only for energy, but for agricultural fertilizer and countless consumer and industrial goods as well.
We've all heard that petroleum reserves will be depleted by about 2040. But most haven't considered that oil production is predicted to peak in 2007. After about 2007 one can only assume there will be increasingly hostile international competition for dwindling oil production.
Add to the 2007 peaking in oil production the following looming crises:
1. Global warming. If the jump in the rate of increase in the concentration of atmospheric CO2 seen in the last two years maintains, action will have to be taken within decades or less to insure a run-away greenhouse effect is avoided.
2. Decreasing production from farms, the fact fertilizers used in commercial farming are made from petroleum, and the peaking of oil production in 2007. Add to this exponential population growth. Studies have predicted the world can only sustain a population of about 2.5 billion given current technologies.
A life and death struggle between 6 billion for resources that can only support about 2.5 billion is a recipe for a global conflagration that will make the previous world wars look like minor skrimishes.
That is why the US continues to spend for defense at Cold War levels even though the world is currently at peace. I think the increase in power of right-wing fundamentalist christianity in US society can be fit to this theory as well.
What doesn't fit (I admit!) is the current administrations refusal to take global warming seriously, rejection of the Kyoto Protocol, and insufficient leadership in developing alternative energy sources, especially nuclear. Maybe the Armageddon-fixated christian fundamentalists really have taken over. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/comment
Look here.
It is true that Fortress America is safe from invasion. No country has anywhere near the naval fleet needed. The logistical demands alone are astounding.
:
However, I forsee an economic war brewing, and in that realm we are in a world of hurt. We finance our deficit spending by printing money, which the rest of the world buys. We are now beginning to see this change. I expect to see a switch to the Euro as the default currency for trade over the next couple of years regardless of who wins the election. This will mean a drastic drop in the dollar versus other currencies, and possilby hyper inflation. We may be able to invade countries, but short of nuclear blackmail we will not be able to force the world to buy dollars.
Here is an article about it from the last decent (IMO) congressman in DC
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul213.html
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